Am I an 'Outsider'?

I have a question about myself. I'm hoping someone here might be able to look at my birth chart and possibly give me an answer of some kind, or even give me some advice that sends me in the right direction.

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For as long as I can remember, I have always felt like an outsider. Different to others in some way. A loner. A misfit. Someone who doesn't belong. I remember being young and sometimes having this strange, vague, yet somehow very real and heavy feeling that I didn't quite belong somehow. This feeling would occur again and again throughout my life. I am 26 years old now, and I still get this feeling. In face, I can say that the older I get the more often that this feeling occurs, and the worse it feels. It's like having a monkey on my back who slaps me on the back of the head every time I'm about to feel normal or content.

I wish I could give you some more detail on how I feel, but...I find it hard to describe properly. I don't even understand it completely myself. It's strange. Honestly, not only am I bit of a mystery to other people, I'm also a mystery to myself a lot of the time. I have friends, only a few though, and I don't really get too close. I frequently feel the 'need' to be alone for periods of time, especially if I've been hanging around with a group of people for an extended period. I don't always enjoy being alone, sometimes I even wish I could enjoy NOT being alone more, but I definitely need to disconnect myself from others on a regular basis. Wherever I may be, I try to find a spot that's quiet, and where I'm not likely to be disturbed.

As I said before, the older I get the stronger these feelings get. I often feel like I don't belong anywhere in life. For this reason I avoid getting too close to people, whether it be socially or in a job sense, as I don't want people to get too attached to me, lest I feel the need to leave them.

What I want to ask you folk is this: is there a reason or reasons why this is happening? I would like it if someone could have a glimpse at my chart and see if anything there sheds some light on my predicament. I would also be interested to know if there are any particular planetary placements, aspects, etc. that appear often in people who are 'Outsiders', 'Misfits', 'Loners' or are just somehow not like the rest of the human race in some way.

Thank you for your time. I'm sorry if my description of my feelings sounds a bit vague, but I do find it hard to describe my feelings. Also if you need more information from me, feel free to ask.

Janus

Just bumping so this topic doesn't get too far off the main page.

Any replies would be great. Also, I think I forgot to mention that I often feel like I don't belong anywhere in life, like I don't have any place in life. And as far as socializing goes, I socialize with a lot of different types of people and groups of people, but I never quite feel like I completely fit in to any particular one.

Hi Janus. I don't have time to do justice to your opening post, but just to get the ball rolling:

Chiron rising is bound to be very significant, as is the angular Saturn.

Earth is very conscious of boundaries, and Virgo and Capricorn in particular are prone to experience this as a kind of scrutiny of the self in relation to others. Often when Sun and Moon are in trine aspect, the native can get into a rut of being a certain way - there can be an inner sense of equilibrium which doesn't lend itself to challenging oneself to break out into new ways of being.

Venus is aspecting the angular Saturn Chiron opposition, suggesting that the urge to relate to others is affected by the isolationist tendencies of Saturn and Chiron. Venus rules the 11th house of friends and groups.

The Gemini Sagittarius axis needs to seek understanding, and this often happens through interaction with others. It could be that on some level you have written yourself off as a sociable and communicative being, where as in fact you have great strength in this area. Mercury in Aquarius adds to this, but its square to Pluto suggests a possible association of communication with intrusion and power-struggles.

I would strongly recommend a book called Barriers and Boundaries, by Greene, which looks at both Saturn and Chiron in depth, and also the defences associated with each element, including earth. I think you would get loads from reading it.

Anyway, once again sorry for a sparse reply. I'll contribute more over the coming days, but hopefully others also offer their thoughts. Give Waybread a nudge in this direction with a personal message!

Marinka hits one nail on my head (also having Ven/Sat with similar orb to Janus), but the described experiences go beyond just that influence (e.g., my career-induced social life was happily active).

My vote (accounting for orb strength among major and minor aspects through a denominator of 12), is for the 11 min tight Sun septile Jup.

Janus, if you request by PM, I'll check whether my astro friend with the same heavy influence is of a mind to chat with you.

Janus, does it hurt to be you?

With Chiron sitting on your ascendant, I should think so. Your ascendant shows your body and outward personality and Chiron shows us "where it hurts"; so yes, you might feel out of place. Yet Chiron also shows where you can gain wisdom and compassion. You can reach out to other loners because you know what they feel.

Your chart is Saturnian in several ways. Saturn is directly opposite Chiron on your 7th house cusp-- the point indicating "you" in a "me/you" relationship. Saturn often shows where we feel frustrated or inadequate in life. Your Capricorn and Aquarius placements are ruled by Saturn.

With an 8th house sun, you are probably a private person by nature, and this makes it hard for you to get out and socialize.

None of this means there is anything objectively wrong with you. The world is full of loners who would be happy if someone who understood them were to reach out to them. And solitude has its gifts, especially if you travel, enjoy wilderness sports, or just generally find it a bit jarring to be around a lot of other people. Your chart suggests that you actually need a lot of "him" time to yourself.

I don't know if you are into drugs or alcohol, but I would strongly encourage you to avoid or at least limit their use. When you feel lonesome you might be tempted to self-medicate, but with Neptune square your moon and Mars, you are extra-vulnerable to them. A more empowering interpretation would be to take up a water sport like sailing sea-kayaking.

Do you find the sea to be therapeutic?

Hi Janus. Have you retreated from the thread? You're still quite young, and you may understand yourself much better after your Saturn return in a few years time.

I wonder if anyone can think of any famous people with strong Saturn and Chiron, and perhaps an earth emphasis too, who have written an autobiography? It may help to read something like that.

It might also be a good idea to engage with this thread not so much to get ideas about the astrology of your situation, but rather to notice the feelings that come up as you participate. Where Saturn is concerned its important not to sieze up, but rather to apply a bit of effort.

I tink that in time you'll see more positives in your disposition as you more fully realise its potential, for instance the ability to be alone, and the ability to maintain your integrity when relating to others.

But I know its not easy to wear a straightjacket of aloofness, especially when others look for reasons to be wary or critical of such a disposition. If you forget all about astrology and pre-disposition, what was it about your early experiences that may have trained you to be this way?

Best wishes

waybread said:

Janus, does it hurt to be you?

With Chiron sitting on your ascendant, I should think so. Your ascendant shows your body and outward personality and Chiron shows us "where it hurts"; so yes, you might feel out of place. Yet Chiron also shows where you can gain wisdom and compassion. You can reach out to other loners because you know what they feel.

Your chart is Saturnian in several ways. Saturn is directly opposite Chiron on your 7th house cusp-- the point indicating "you" in a "me/you" relationship. Saturn often shows where we feel frustrated or inadequate in life. Your Capricorn and Aquarius placements are ruled by Saturn.

With an 8th house sun, you are probably a private person by nature, and this makes it hard for you to get out and socialize.

None of this means there is anything objectively wrong with you. The world is full of loners who would be happy if someone who understood them were to reach out to them. And solitude has its gifts, especially if you travel, enjoy wilderness sports, or just generally find it a bit jarring to be around a lot of other people. Your chart suggests that you actually need a lot of "him" time to yourself.

I don't know if you are into drugs or alcohol, but I would strongly encourage you to avoid or at least limit their use. When you feel lonesome you might be tempted to self-medicate, but with Neptune square your moon and Mars, you are extra-vulnerable to them. A more empowering interpretation would be to take up a water sport like sailing sea-kayaking.

Do you find the sea to be therapeutic?

Click to expand...

Yes, it does hurt to be me. Or life hurts me. That sounds stupid, but that's what it feels like.

I am a pretty quiet person by nature. I do socialize, but not that much, and not if I can help it. Especially if it's with people I dislike or don't really connect with. It's okay if there are people I know there, but if not then it's often unpleasant for me.

I'm actually not into drugs and alcohol, which is a good thing I think. I have an occasionally drink or two of alcohol sometimes, but only in a blue moon. That's about it. I don't see how it can make people feel better anyway. Occasionally when I drink alcohol it doesn't agree with me. I had half a glass of wine one night, and it gave me a really painful headache. I went to bed early that night because of my headache, though the headache made it hard to sleep that night.

Finally, about the sea - I love the sea I love water in general, the swimming pool can be just as good as the ocean sometimes. Swimming is my favorite way to exercise, and surfing or body boarding is good fun. It's good to go to a large beach with not many people where I can be reasonably alone in the water, to go a bit further out and realize I can't hear any of the noises of the city, like cars and stuff, all I hear is the somehow soothing sound of waves breaking and all I smell is seaweed and saltwater. It's nice.

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Miquar, I'm not sure about which of my early life experiences shaped me to be what I am now, but I'm sure they had an effect on me. I used to have clearer memories but I can't remember as much now. It wasn't all bad though. I have some good memories, especially with family staying at the beach during the holidays, and some other things...but unfortunately the bad times seem to outweigh the good ones. Also I fell in love with a girl I've known since childhood, and that's definitely caused a lot of pain over the years.

Another thing I thought off - I don't know much about transits, but maybe there is something happening/happened recently that's affected me? I don't know, anyone have an opinion on this?

Also when does the Saturn Return happen?

Saturn return happens around 29 years of age, one Saturn cycle, yours will be in around 3-4 years.

Hi

I was curious about your chart as I always felt like an outsider when I was younger and eventually learned to be comfortable with it.

You have Uranus just out of bounds (OOB), declination greater than 23 degrees 26'22 and yours is 23 degrees 27'10 which is the ruler of your 9th house, higher mind. It is very unusual for outer planets to go out of bounds. Basically, your Uranus, the planet of uniqueness, rebellion, ruling your higher mind and is even more unusual by being OOB, above the ecliptic point of the sun, which doesn't live under any rule by the ecliptic point, above the boundaries of the earth. Some say as the outsider watching above the boundaries. Uranus also rules your Mercury in Aquarius which is also the ruler of Gemini Ascendant. While your other Mercury ruled sign Virgo, is within the 3rd house as intercepted sign along with Pisces in the 9th house. So your higher mind and lower mind are both intercepted.

Virgo as earth and sign ruled by Mercury literally ruled the practical reality world and the logic of the practical reality. Pisces ruled by Neptune ruling the opposition of the practical reality and every thing beyond logic. So Moon in Virgo and Jupiter in Pisces are intercepted planets here.

Secondly, you happened to born with ascendant at 22 degrees 40'26 contra parallel Neptune which gives you descendant at 22 degrees 40' 26, parallel to other outer planet Neptune 22 degrees 16' 46. It is only personal to you as you were born at such time to give that declination same as Neptune on your Descendant, the way you see and interacting with others is influenced by this conjunction (parallel) to the Planet of uncertainty, mist and unknown, Neptune.

You can learn more about your chart by researching Intercepted signs/houses/planets, and Out of Bounds planets.

It is good to be You, even you might feeling different to others and feeling alone most of the time, you might discover something totally unique for yourself as well. However it would be challenging for you to be fully content as 8 planets are all in the right side of the chart. You learn about your identify and satisfaction from and through others and most from the public level as it 6 planets on the right are above the horizon.

Another interesting feature in your chart is the Uranus in Sagittarius and Neptune in Capricorn. Capricorn and Sagittarius are both each other antiscion signs which means they are each other secret friends. And by degree they are also close to exact of each other antiscion points, Neptune in Capricorn 6 degrees 24, and Uranus in Sagittarius 24 degrees 41. This is a generation phenomena, but in your chart, Uranus expressing this energy in your 9th house, while Neptune expressing that to your intercepted sign/Jupiter in Pisces in 9th house and Neptune parallel to your 7th house.

Would you be willing to share your higher education, any philosophy/religious belief? Any interesting things at school, with foreign matters, oversea places, traveling, your dreams and visions?

Forgot to mention, descendant, 7th house is the mirror of your own image of the 1st house, so Neptune might give you feeling of lost at sea while you feel comfortable with water and sea etc.

Thanks for the feedback, Janus. I think sometimes society puts too much pressure on people who are loners by nature. The distinction is "loner" vs. "lonely." If you can be the first and not the second, you are probably doing well in engaging in more solitary activities. This might well be time spent in Nature. Nature is impersonal but it is always there for you.

Just realize that you are all of the planets in your chart and all of your life experiences. There are some true victims on the planet, but I don't think you are one of them. As you learn more astrology, determine the planets that give you the most grief, and then look to ways to own them and incorporate their positive natures in your life.

And give it time. Poyi makes a good point that sometimes people who feel like misfits when they are young grow out of it later in life. For one thing, your planets progress into new configurations. For another, the second Saturn return that occurs around age 29 is a period of maturation for most people.

Hi Janus. I don't think I can add anything to Waybread's thoughts on how to approach your issues. But once again I do urge you to read Barriers and Boundaries, by Greene. I don't think there's any other source that would give you such deep insight into your chart.

In terms of transits, transiting Uranus and Pluto have been aspecting the natal Neptune Mars square in recent times, and transiting Chiron has been aspecting some of the Gemini Sagittarius placements. I won't be on the forum for a month or two now, but maybe someone else will pick up on these. Transiting Saturn approaching natal Pluto too, and perhaps significant progressions.

Best wishes