Will Scotland gain independence?

Hi all,

What do you think, will Scotland gain independence from the UK?

Officially the date that the Kingdom of Scotland joined the Kingdom of England, to become Great Britain was 1st May 1707 in London. (the United Kingdom refers to Ireland/Northern Ireland being part of the same nation).

There will be a referendum on whether Scotland should stay in the UK, which people living in Scotland are allowed to vote in, on 18th September 2014, the results of which I guess will be announced in Edinburgh.

I haven't looked at the astrology of it yet, and I will post any thoughts that I have when I do, but I was wondering if anyone had already looked into this and whether you have noticed anything happening to the UK on that date?

Astrodienst lists the date of the formation of the UK as midnight 1st January 1801, in London.

The leader of the Scottish Nationalist Party is Alex Salmond, his date of birth is 31st December 1954.

Nobody seems sure about the date of the formation of Scotland, but one website gives this data http://astrotabletalk.blogspot.co.uk/2007/04/astrology-of-scottish-independence.html

Any thoughts anyone?

(& no I'm not asking just so that I can put a bet on, it's a yes-no question so the odds aren't worth it).

I tried that as a horary question some time ago now. And it was a no. This is your question now and you could put up a horary chart for us to read. There used to be a board here for horary questions on mundane topics. I will have look and see if it is still there.

I see it is still there as a subforum in the horary section.

OK. Thank you. I'll have a look at it.
I suppose I could draw up a horary for the time I posted this thread, but then we might get into the territory of people casting multiple horaries like they did for the disappearance of the MH370 flight, plus it's not the first time I've considered the question, although we could perhaps argue that the situation is fluid enough that circumstances may have changed since you cast your chart.

I got a yes but with a great delay. That's off horary

OK here are some charts to look at.

Now I'm more uncertain than ever

The charts are 1) the UK chart + transits for the date of the referendum - pluto is retrograding back over sun in the 4th & IC, which could mean permanent change to homeland, it is also opposite the moon in the 10th, and ruler of the MC, permanent change to how the UK is seen by the world in terms of status?

2) the UK chart + progressions - progressed lilith has gone over the moon, but is still close enough to be conjunct, & progressed ascendant is on natal juno (I stuck Juno in because I thought it was a bit like 'union', but that might be a red herring as the union was England & Scotland not UK & Scotland)

3) natal & progressed chart of Alex Salmond, leader of the Scottish National Party. This had to be drawn blank as I have no idea of his time of birth. I can't see any significant progression except progressed sun sextile natal sun, which is good but perhaps not fantastic. It is possible there are progressions to his MC, but I don't know what that is.

4) natal chart of the Act of Union 1707, plus transits for the date of the referendum. I'm assuming the act came into force at midnight as this is the usual protocol. Moon is in the 7th of partners, along with juno & jupiter, the moon has just passed a square with transiting uranus.

5) natal & progressed chart of the Act of Union 1707 for the date of the referendum, progressed part of fortune is coming up to the natal descendant, which would suggest benefits from working in partnership?

6) progressed chart for the Act of Union on the date of the referendum - sun is in the 4th could be endings or solidifying roots, moon is the last degree of the 8th house & the 8th house is often divorce or dissolution of partnerships, and juno will soon be under assault from saturn, mars and uranus, so this chart suggests separation to me.

Does anyone see anything else that I've missed?

Anyone want to make any predictions?

Here's chart number 6, apparently you can only upload 5 in one post.

Culpeper said:

I tried that as a horary question some time ago now. And it was a no. This is your question now and you could put up a horary chart for us to read. There used to be a board here for horary questions on mundane topics. I will have look and see if it is still there.

I see it is still there as a subforum in the horary section.

Click to expand...

do you still got the chart?
I asked about this referendum - i got a NO but Moon ruled scotland and it was like last 3 minutes of being in orb with Jupiter. I cannot recall. My call was Not now.

Alex Salmond is given in the Astrological Journal and on various internet sources as born 31 Dec 1954, at 16:30 GMT, at Linlithgow, Scotland. This gives him Cancer rising, 18 deg 33.

The chart given for Scotland in the Astrological Journal by two different Scottish astrologers is the date of Accession of King Malcolm II, which was on 25 March 1005, at Scone (Perth is probably as close as most programs for chart creation will allow) at either 11:00 or Noon.

Transits to the 1005 chart at 12:00 show:

transiting Pluto on Radical north node:

Transiting MC on Radical Neptune - both these two transits in the radical 6th:

transiting Saturn on Radical Pluto, conjunct IC from 3rd:

transiting Moon on radical Saturn in the 12th.

Seems to me to suggest a degree of disruption and confusion!

Like the UK. Salmond is also having a Pluto transit to his natal Sun (not he was born in the afternoon of the 31st Dec in the year he was born and the UK was born at the end of the 31st Dec in the year that it was born). Because I think that floating voters will err on the side of caution on the day, I think the vote will be NO, and Salmond will finally have to yield to some kind of identity crisis (transiting Pluto square natal Sun) after identifying so closely (and so passionately) with the Scottish independence movement. If its a NO, Salmond will never be prime minister of Scotland, and he's come to see that as his purpose in life (the Sun).

Alex Salmond having transiting pluto conjunct his natal sun could mean a break down of his identity and purpose, as Miquar says, but pluto can also mean new beginnings. I haven't had this transit so I don't know what it feels like, but could it possibly be linked to gaining power?
Having said that, with the birth time given by sirius46 his MC is 12 degrees pisces, with mars at 19 degrees and the ruler of his ascendant, the moon, at 24 degrees, in the 10th. 4.30 sounds suspiciously exact, although some people must be born then, but assuming it is reasonably exact, then chiron is transiting his 10th and his MC, and chiron usually brings pain. Neptune is also quite close, having gone over his MC once, it is now retrograding around 5 degrees but will go back up over his MC in the not too distant future. Although neptune is the ruler of his MC (modern rulers) I don't associate neptune with success in politics or becoming a ruler (if he wanted to become an artist, musician, therapist, photographer, oil worker etc then neptune going over the MC might be helpful). This transiting neptune is also sextiling his natal sun.
He also has a saturn return, with transiting saturn going over his natal saturn at 18 degrees scorpio, and although a person taking on new responsibility would have saturn transits I don't see any indications of glory in his chart for that date, so I think this saturn return will work out as more of an ending and restructuring for him.
At the date of the referendum the sun is transiting his 4th house rather than his 10th.
So despite the scary headlines today that the "Yes" campaign is ahead in the polls I think that astrology suggests he won't succeed.
It is interesting though, that a person who has built their purpose around their "homeland" has cancer rising, with moon in the 10th, very apt for a nationalist politician.

Here are Alex Salmond's progressions for September 18th 2014.

Progressed moon is square progressed sun = bad.

But, progressed sun is conjunct his natal MC = good.

Perhaps the progressed sun conjunct the MC means this will be the high point of his career, getting devo-max for Scotland.

Oh yes - transiting Pluto is conjunct his natal Sun - for some reason I said it was a square.

A close NO vote would still give him a mandate for further devolution, and also affirm him ad the person to lead that. This could account for progressed Sun conjunct mc, but birth time does look a little vague to be sure that this progression is close at the moment.

I've also looked at the transits on the proposed date of independence (24 March 2016) to Alex Salmond's chart, taking a time of 0001 hours. Many of his natal planets are at 20 degrees plus in their signs: apart from the Ascendant and MC of the transit, the rest of the transiting planets are at less than 20 degrees. The only things of note seem to be Neptune sextile his Sun; Venus sextile his Mercury; and Uranus quincunx his Saturn. Not, as far as I can see, a recipe for a man coming into his glory as President od Scotland.

You can also cast a chart for the moment when polling begins (though some have already cast their votes) or when polling stops (which is perhaps better).

From what I can find 24th March 2016 is the date that Alex Salmond wants independence by. If it was a week or two earlier the sun would be transiting his MC or his moon in the 10th, the ruler of his chart.

& I couldn't see clearly in the chart I posted of his natal chart & progressions, but the progressed sun is 2 degrees before his natal MC at the moment. On 24th March 2016 his progressed sun will have reached his natal MC!

But this is all depending on the time being accurate. I was talking to my mum today & she mentioned that birth certificates in Scotland do record the time of birth, so it could be correct!

I believe the time of birth is reasonably accurate: it is from his birth certificate and is the one normally quoted, as far as my reading has taken me so far. I must admit that I have not yet looked at the progressions to his chart, just transits. Progressions obviously give another dimension to the narrative. Sun on natal MC is a much more positive reading from his point of view.

I seem to remember my own check on the charts was for the end of polling, in Edinburgh: I agree with you that this is probably a better moment.