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  #1  
Unread 09-14-2012, 04:00 AM
virgo18 virgo18 is offline
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Important Doubt about horary technique.

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Last edited by virgo18; 10-08-2012 at 08:46 PM.
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Unread 09-20-2012, 09:30 PM
Anachiel Anachiel is offline
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Re: Important Doubt about horary technique.

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Originally Posted by virgo18 View Post
In relationship horary: How is when someone doesn't like each other? For example:

It will depend on the frame of the question. Obviously, if someone is askign about marriage we want to see if marriage is happening, not who hates the other more. Or, if they ask about a meeting, we want to see them meet, not who doesn't want to show up. If there is no contact between the significators, then we look to see why they don't (or can't) meet; what prevents them from meeting, and that can only be ascertained by looking at all that is going on and the positions of the signficators.

Let's say the querent is Venus, so the quesited will be Mars

Let's say Venus is in Leo, and Mars is in Scorpio, (there can be a square perhaps)

OK, squares can perfect the matter if both significators are strong and in good houses, traditionally, though it will be a terse or difficult interlude.


Who's the one who doesn't like the other? Venus or Mars?

It doesn't work like that. If they are meeting or aspecting then we assume they want to or need to. If there is animosity of some type if may show up as an opposition or a badly placed square, imperfection of the chart as it were. But, trying to value judge dislike or quantify hate and who has more of which is missing the point. It's like focusing on the forest and missing the tree.

Neither of the two are in mutual reception:
1) I ask this because Venus is seeing Mars in the sign where she is in detriment, so Venus will see Mars as a menace for her? (so it will be logic that Venus doesn't like Mars)

In this case, Mars is not receiving Venus and the aspect is a bad square, so the situation with Mars is suspect. Mars, being well placed probably needs something more powerful to interest him than a peregrine Venus.

2) This is also logic in the other way: Mars is making Venus in detriment, so Mars isn't giving Venus any worth. (So here is also logic that Mars doesn't likes Venus)

More likely.



I know that there is only one way to determine that: Which one is it?
The 1st or the 2nd?


thx!


EDIT!!!

Let's also say the Moon is in Aries..... What will happen? The quesited does likes partially the querent, and the querent doesn't likes Mars because it is in the sign where the Moon is in fall? Or it doesn't work like this????
Truthfully, it doesn't matter all that much to go on this type of train of thought. Just look at the significators and see what they are doing to each other. If you try to get too clever too quick you will miss the entire picture and confuse yourself. Just answer the question using what you can see. Don't exceed the scope of the query.
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Unread 09-20-2012, 11:00 PM
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Re: Important Doubt about horary technique.

You could apply planetary friendships. I do this with natal charts when I want to see the relationships between the native and various important people in the native's life.

Planetary friendships are an integral part of Indian astrology, and I've seen similar schemes in the work of authors like Lilly and Valens, though they don't seem to see much use by modern proponents of western traditional astrology.

Example; Venus dislikes the Moon, but Moon is neutral about Venus.

The angular relationship between them further modifies the relationship, increasing or decreasing friendship or animosity between the two and what they signify.
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Unread 09-20-2012, 11:51 PM
Anachiel Anachiel is offline
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Re: Important Doubt about horary technique.

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Originally Posted by Moog View Post
You could apply planetary friendships. I do this with natal charts when I want to see the relationships between the native and various important people in the native's life.

...
That won't really work because the planets involved (i.e. Asc and 7th, generally) are always going to have rulers that are naturally opposite to each other and, therefore considered "unfriendly" or neutral (at least) to each other. See:

Mars/Venus
Mercury/Jupiter
Moon/Saturn
Sun/Saturn

Vedic or Western, this type of relationship determination is not accurate when using 1st and 7th significators as they are either always enemies or neutral by sign rulership.

Traditionally, and this must be used carefully without jumping to conclusions, the slower planet is usually more dominant and the faster of the two is usually more loving...but again, when using 1st and 7th, this again presents a problem as one is always fast and the other slow. So, as one great master of horary said, "Mix reason with Art". Usually house placement, as well, needs also to be considered to make a relevant determination.

But again, when is someone really going to ask, "Who hates/loves me more?" It's a useless quantification of something that really cannot be measured. I mean you are either loved or not, right? you either get married or not, right? You either meet or not, right? That is what a querent really wants to know. Not on a scale of 1 to 10 how much do they love me compared to me or her or them, etc.
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Unread 09-21-2012, 01:29 AM
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Re: Important Doubt about horary technique.

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Originally Posted by Anachiel View Post
That won't really work because the planets involved (i.e. Asc and 7th, generally) are always going to have rulers that are naturally opposite to each other and, therefore considered "unfriendly" or neutral (at least) to each other. See:

Mars/Venus
Mercury/Jupiter
Moon/Saturn
Sun/Saturn

Vedic or Western, this type of relationship determination is not accurate when using 1st and 7th significators as they are either always enemies or neutral by sign rulership.
Sure, that's true, and very interesting. It's the same for natal astrology.

But given a question of 'who hates the other', which is what the OP wanted to know, in 3 out of those 4 pairs of natural relationships, you'll always get one party better disposed towards the other.

Which one is less well disposed to the other could potentially be the answer to what Virgo18 is interested in finding out.

Taking into account temporary and compound relationships, you get a wider range of potential results.
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Last edited by Moog; 09-21-2012 at 01:40 AM.
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Unread 09-21-2012, 01:47 AM
Anachiel Anachiel is offline
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Re: Important Doubt about horary technique.

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Originally Posted by Moog View Post
...
But given a question of 'who hates the other', which is what the OP wanted to know, in 3 out of those 4 pairs of natural relationships, you'll always get one party better disposed towards the other.

We actually don't know, at this point, what the precise question is other than it is a relationship horary where someone seems to dislike the other.

Taking into account temporary and compound relationships, you get a wider range of potential results.
Yes, but the point being, in relationship horary charts, the 1st/7th axis will always be one where the planets demonstrate some antipathy rather than sympathy and so, those natural planetary friendships/enmity can be misleading in their general sense.

Perhaps, the OP will post the chart and question for further detail.
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