The liberal message of Jesus

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If Jesus were alive in the US today, how would he relate to US politics?

Some quick background:

One particular strand in American politics today is that the far right* is the political repository of virtue; with the unfortunate corollary that "everybody else" is probably a leftist--with varying degrees of associated evil.

I have actually read statements on this Forum that what it means to be a leftist is to support Big Government. (For no discernable rationale, apparently.) On this forum, leftists have actually been called Marxists, communists, suppressors of freedom of speech, and people who "hate God."

[I have repeatedly stressed that I am a political moderate and independent, but nevertheless have been called a leftist by some forum members, and have been expected to support an egregious leftist position.]

*What I call the "far right" in American politics today would be exemplified by Republican House Representatives Marjorie Taylor Greene and Lauren Boebert, Senators Ted Cruz and Josh Hawley, and Trump supporters who still believe he won the election. Moderate Republicans (not far right) would include senators Susan Collins, Lisa Murkowski, and Mitt Romney. Some Republicans like House Reps. Liz Cheney and Peter Meijer are very conservative in their beliefs, but split with Trump on impeachment. The far right also has a strong attachment to Donald Trump, to the point where the Republican party today has been called "the party of Trump."

For a definition and discussion of "liberal," see:https://www.merriam-webster.com/words-at-play/liberal-meaning-origin-history

The political definition of liberal today basically means someone who supports social and economic progress for all, but is OK with government supporting that change if private initiative fails to alleviate the problem.

So-- a big hypothetical:

If Jesus were alive today, wouldn't his teachings be considered to be liberal?

I don't mean that Jesus would align with the rightwing caricature of leftists, support big government for its own sake, suppress free speech, &c. &, obviously. Those aren't even liberal causes.

I'm thinking of Jesus' telling his followers to feed the hungry, clothe the naked, care for the sick, and visit the prisoner. He preached non-violence (turn the other cheek, as did Martin Luther King,) and a generally caring, loving approach to other people.

There is an argument to be made that Jesus asked for little more than personal charity at a time when the Roman empire exemplified Big Government. However, American history has shown that personal charity doesn't suffice to alleviate serious human suffering during times of economic crises, like the Great Depression. Even the Roman government distributed grain for bread to its citizens.

This OP is just a start: there's lots to discuss.

I'm for a government project to enlarge the Eye of the Needle, so the extremely wealthy can make it to Heaven!

Rapier wit again.

david starling said:

I'm for a government project to enlarge the Eye of the Needle, so the extremely wealthy can make it to Heaven!

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Jesus had one follower who was a tax collector. Tax collectors were generally despised. Some things never change, eh?



I can't see him getting involved in politics/calling for higher taxes in the modern world, or more followers to become tax collectors.



Then there was the temple incident. Temples were the heart of the business district in the Levant - pagan, Jewish, didn't matter. Jesus overturned the moneychangers' table. If he stopped and picked up the money to distribute to the poor, nobody ever wrote it down.


So no, don't think he'd be going to the government. But he probably would support the Jewish laws around tithing and gleaning and helping people. Just not on a state level.

Oddity said:

Jesus had one follower who was a tax collector. Tax collectors were generally despised. Some things never change, eh?



I can't see him getting involved in politics/calling for higher taxes in the modern world, or more followers to become tax collectors.



Then there was the temple incident. Temples were the heart of the business district in the Levant - pagan, Jewish, didn't matter. Jesus overturned the moneychangers' table. If he stopped and picked up the money to distribute to the poor, nobody ever wrote it down.


So no, don't think he'd be going to the government. But he probably would support the Jewish laws around tithing and gleaning and helping people. Just not on a state level.

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"Render unto Caesar what is Caesar's"? {Matthew 22:21}

Why are you always bringing him into politics? I don't get it & it kinda bothers me. You part of "jews for jesus?'

Why not talk about Moses, Buddha or one of the Hindu gods?

Or is your intent to Pi** off the Conservative Right who are 90% or more Christian?

And who wouldn't be on an astrology forum so cannot defend their position.

My bs radar kinda buzzing right now.

waybread said:

[B

If Jesus were alive in the US today, how would he relate to US politics?

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Oddity said:

Jesus had one follower who was a tax collector. Tax collectors were generally despised. Some things never change, eh?



I can't see him getting involved in politics/calling for higher taxes in the modern world, or more followers to become tax collectors.



Then there was the temple incident. Temples were the heart of the business district in the Levant - pagan, Jewish, didn't matter. Jesus overturned the moneychangers' table. If he stopped and picked up the money to distribute to the poor, nobody ever wrote it down.


So no, don't think he'd be going to the government. But he probably would support the Jewish laws around tithing and gleaning and helping people. Just not on a state level.

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Jesus the Naassarene. What a guy.

Moses pretty cool too!

Brought down the Ten Commandments from on high & led the people out of Egypt.

Is he the 'Prophet' Rush Limbaugh reincarnated?

Moses would definitely be a Republican that's for sure!


https://youtu.be/nv584jRwh0s

Blaze said:

Jesus the Naassarene. What a guy.

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Oddity said:

Jesus had one follower who was a tax collector. Tax collectors were generally despised. Some things never change, eh?

I can't see him getting involved in politics/calling for higher taxes in the modern world, or more followers to become tax collectors.

Then there was the temple incident. Temples were the heart of the business district in the Levant - pagan, Jewish, didn't matter. Jesus overturned the moneychangers' table. If he stopped and picked up the money to distribute to the poor, nobody ever wrote it down.

So no, don't think he'd be going to the government. But he probably would support the Jewish laws around tithing and gleaning and helping people. Just not on a state level.

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Tax collectors in the Roman empire made their living off the proceeds that they collected. Not like the IRS today, where employees get a regular paycheck from their employer. Roman-era tax collectors got an understandable reputation for corruption and greed. Taxpayers hated them.

Luke 19:1-10 talks about the religious conversion of tax collector the Zacchaeus when Jesus stays at his house. The man suddenly decides to give away half of his wealth to the poor and to repay 4x what he owed to anyone he cheated. So he's "saved." The narrative concludes that Jesus "came to save the lost."

This is an argument for generous charitable giving on a personal level. The question is: suppose that's not enough to cover millions of kids' basic food needs? Jesus didn't say to let people actually starve when charity proves inadequate; just that poverty itself won't be eradicated.

The Roman government in fact gave a grain/bread ration to its citizens.

Nothing in the NT prohibits government mitigation of serious poverty.

Blackbery, you might want to unplug your BS-o-meter. If you are a practicing Christian, you might want to seriously engage with my question, given the energy you attach to American politics.

Here is my personal situation. I was raised in a secular Protestant family by parents who called themselves free-thinkers. I was never baptized. As a kid growing up in the 1950s and 60s, this made me feel really different! However, for several years I attended Sunday school at the Congregational church with some neighborhood friends.

At the age of 13 I decided to read the entire Bible. This took me a couple of years, but I did it. In my late teens I thought of joining the Society of Friends (Quakers) and attended some of their meetings, but it didn't take.

My ex husband and I decided to marry when I was 24. He is Jewish and I took a conversion class, had a Bet Din and mikveh: i. e, a kosher conversion. We were active in the local synagogue and I kept a kosher home. During this time we spent an academic year in Israel.

My ex and I split after 20 years of marriage. I then became inactive in the Jewish faith, but never renounced it or joined a different faith. My husband is a lapsed Anglican, so our lifestyle is secular.

However, I maintain a strong interest in the Bible, which I have by now read through several times; plus many repeat bits and pieces.

I view Jesus as a great teacher who preached a radical code of ethics. I don't take the Bible literally, but I think there is a lot of wisdom in it.

Both ancient Judaism and Jesus preached the necessity for the community to look after the most vulnerable members of society.

So which American political persuasion do you think takes that mandate more seriously?

(This would vary by denomination. The Salvation Army is one group that has a specific urban outreach.)

Neither the Rep nor Dem Party care about the poor, the vulnerable.

BOTH only care about gaining power & more wealth for themselves.

BUT at least the Reps don't worship satan like the Dems.

The Reps believe in GOD & FREEDOM & the CONSTITUTION.

The Dems believe in control, in totalitarian gov't. They never used to be this way. But the Party 'for the poor' is no more. They are so corrupt, so depraved that it boggles the minds of those who haven't studied them.

MANY Reps are corrupt too but they don't engage in the sheer evil that the Dems do. Probably because they believe in Heaven & Hell & don't want to go to the wrong place.

The PEOPLE can look after themselves if they are given the opportunity to earn a good wage, buy a nice home, get married, have a family if they choose.

The cabal don't want the people to be FREE. They need to keep them enslaved, constantly struggling financially & weak in their health. That way, they can control them & keep stealing all the money they can get their dirty, grubby hands on.

They have stolen TRILLIONS from the U.S.A.

Trump & the White 'Alliance' are destroying them. Taking away the Federal Reserve & the I.R.S. which are privately owned by the Rothschilds.

You only have to look at Hollywood & how openly demonic & satanic they are.
They don't even bother hiding it anymore.

We are in a battle of GOOD v EVIL.

Literally.

waybread said:

So which American political persuasion do you think takes that mandate more seriously?

(This would vary by denomination. The Salvation Army is one group that has a specific urban outreach.)

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Just to paraphrase my post on the thread on what the right misunderstands about everyone else.

Depending upon the poll (as their results vary slightly):

About 3/4 of white evangelical Christians and Mormons voted for Donald Trump in 2020.

I don't have specific figures for the African American churches, but Blacks in general overwhelmingly supported Biden.

So if we talk about evangelical denominations, their voting patterns in 2020 can vary by race.

mainstream Protestant denominations and Catholics split about 50/50 Biden/Trump. However roughly 2/3 of Hispanic Catholics supported Biden.

Jews and Muslims supported Biden by wide margins. However, Orthodox Jews tended to support Trump, probably because of his stand on Israel and anti-Arab sentiment.

About 1/4 of Americans report that they do not affiliate with a particular faith; also something close to 90% of them claim some religious belief. 75% of the religiously unaffiliated voted for Biden.

Blackbery, so where exactly do you find reputable information about Democrats as Satan worshippers?

That old bit about the Rothschilds running the economy is false and anti-Semitic.

I say your post #11 is false.

I am also curious as to what you make of the fact that today, roughly one half of registered American voters are independents.

Also, if you can stick to the thread topic, that would be helpful.

Jesus saw governments as corrupt institutions. I think about the best he could go was 'render unto Caesar that which is Ceasar's'.


And why wouldn't he see them that way? Pontius Pilate was as corrupt as anyone who's run for elected office in Baltimore. Moreso. Rome had to recall him because they felt he was giving them a bad name. Ponder that. But the guys who came after Pilate were even worse.


Do you think he'd look at the US government and say 'Good job guys! Let's see what we can do to help the poor!'


I cannot envision that outcome. Simply cannot.

I've been studying & doing the research for about a year now. Ever since the 1st Impeachment of President Trump when my eyes were opened to the sheer corruption & lies of the Dems/CIA/FBI. I have seen videos & photos that I can't unsee. But when I think it's too much for me, I realize that it has to be confronted for the CHILDREN. But I have spent many nights unable to sleep, in tears at the torture these children are going through.

Pedophilia has infiltrated the Dem Party & the Catholic Church. The powers in the Catholic Institution have allowed child rapists to go free & have allowed that for hundreds of years. The banking system is run like a Mafia operation & they have stolen trillions from around the world. They are part of the Luciferian cabal & they worship satan, like many in the Dem Party. They are willing to 'sell their souls' in return for power & wealth.

They have their symbology & their signs which has taken over Hollywood too. These people literally bow down to Lucifer, make child sacrifices & engage in rape & torture.
You either believe or you don't, I'm not here to convince anyone. Those that want to know do the research. Q Movement is all about thinking independently.
Drawing your own conclusions.

But YOU asked me so I'm just replying to you.

But if YOU want to learn more, you could start by reading a wonderful book by Juan O Savin (not his real name) called Kid By The Side of The Road.

He also made a movie 'The Called'. It's free on the internet.

https://gumroad.com/l/kidbythesideoftheroad

waybread said:

Blackbery, so where exactly do you find reputable information about Democrats as Satan worshippers?

That old bit about the Rothschilds running the economy is false and anti-Semitic.

I say your post #11 is false.

I am also curious as to what you make of the fact that today, roughly one half of registered American voters are independents.

Also, if you can stick to the thread topic, that would be helpful.

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With all due respect (and, yes, I do respect your great intellect)...I don't see what statistics have to do with Jesus, Noah, Esther or Buddha!

MOST people are not aware of what's REALLY going on their own countries, incl the U.S.

BUT people are finally WAKING UP.

It's called THE GREAT AWAKENING.

Many like myself are relatively new to all of this. I just naively thought that the Liberals were 'good' people & the Conservatives were 'bad' people.

Nothing could be further from the Truth. BUT a rough calculation puts corruption at about 90% in Washington & I'm sure it's the same in every country.

It's no wonder Congress has an approval rating of about 12$ or lower.

People KNOW the 'system is rigged' against them but they don't know WHY.

We are finding that out real quick.

That's all folks & disagree all you like, I don't care. I'm just so grateful that the Truth is out there for those who want to delve into the rabbit hole further.

waybread said:

Depending upon the poll (as their results vary slightly):
About 3/4 of white evangelical Christians and Mormons voted for Donald Trump in 2020.
I don't have specific figures for the African American churches, but Blacks in general overwhelmingly supported Biden.
So if we talk about evangelical denominations, their voting patterns in 2020 can vary by race.
.

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blackbery said:

Moses pretty cool too!

Brought down the Ten Commandments from on high & led the people out of Egypt.

Is he the 'Prophet' Rush Limbaugh reincarnated?

Moses would definitely be a Republican that's for sure!


https://youtu.be/nv584jRwh0s

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Moses is quite the inspiration, what with his victory of the Egyptian magicians an such.

Oddity said:

Jesus saw governments as corrupt institutions. I think about the best he could go was 'render unto Caesar that which is Ceasar's'.


And why wouldn't he see them that way? Pontius Pilate was as corrupt as anyone who's run for elected office in Baltimore. Moreso. Rome had to recall him because they felt he was giving them a bad name. Ponder that. But the guys who came after Pilate were even worse.


Do you think he'd look at the US government and say 'Good job guys! Let's see what we can do to help the poor!'


I cannot envision that outcome. Simply cannot.

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What political philosophy do you think Jesus would espouse?

Complaints about "income redistribution" and "welfare queens"?

Or promotion of social assistance to kids who couldn't afford a decent meal, let alone health care?

Blackbery:

So do you believe everything you see on YouTube?

Pedophilia in the Catholic church has been investigated, and diocese are beginning to pay compensation to the victims. But this scandal depended upon many of the victims coming out and telling their stories. These could sometimes be fact-checked against the church's own records and non-disclosure agreements signed by the families of these children.

There is no comparable testimony or evidence for the QAnon fakery about about pedophilia perpetrated by Democrats. You'd think at least a few court cases would be filed or investigations would be launched against specific Democrats.

QAnon is not about thinking independently, but about buying into a mythology. Oh, yeah-- and what happened to the claim that Trump would be inaugurated today (March 4)??

Surely you do not believe these people are literally Satan worshippers. Perhaps you mean "Satan worship" metaphorically.

Didn't Jesus say something about "Love your enemies"?

Matthew 5:43-48; Luke 6: 27-36.

waybread said:

What political philosophy do you think Jesus would espouse?

Complaints about "income redistribution" and "welfare queens"?

Or promotion of social assistance to kids who couldn't afford a decent meal, let alone health care?

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This is so nonsensical I don't even know how to respond.