Pl. help with a standard "will he fall in love with me" question

But actually what I said was: that if the aspect is to occur in the next sign, it means it will happen in the next period of time.

That chart was cast in november last year, 3 months ago. Something happened, last week. Certainly a period of time has indeed passed (a new year technicly speaking, or after the holidays, etc). So the assertion is correct that the sign meant a distance.

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Ok I see what you mean here. This may be valid. But I just counted the degrees between the sigs and it did happen within that time period.

Why do you say parts are calculated from 0°Aries?
Parts are calculated from the point of the ASC degree
http://libracentre.com/arabic_parts_chart.php

Do you use the Arabic parts in horary?

They have nothing to do with 0° Aries as far as I know.

If I just put into this online calculator for finding Arabic part of love for the new chart, it is at 17.28° Virgo, conjunct the Nnode.
If I find part of lovers for the first chart, I get Scorpio 16.18°

Thanks for your input Dirius, it is helpful indeed to realize that the quesited can actually be the 7th, even in this kind of case.

But I find it very hard to change the reception idea to what Frawley has taught you. I prefer the original/traditional reception ideas.

Found a very good blog about all that, answering all the questions coming up here about receptions. One way reception, mutual reception - and what a one way reception really is.

It is the host and guest idea. But traditionally not like you portray it. The receiving planet is obligated to care for or attend to the planet that is currently visiting its place in the zodiac. With our above example, Saturn would receive (or show generosity) and feel obligated to tend to Sun (and Mercury) in Capricorn as best as Saturn was capable of doing. Mercury would tend to the Moon, allow the Moon to do what it wants. Reception does not show love or like, but shows willingness which – depending on context – can be interpreted as something very similar to love or hate, but it is not always the case. It is best to stick to the host/guest paradigm where the host planet is willing to allow the guest planet to do what it wants and provide for it to work towards that goal.

http://starlightknightastrology.com/2011/11/horary-technique-receptions/

Arena said:

Ok I see what you mean here. This may be valid. But I just counted the degrees between the sigs and it did happen within that time period.

Why do you say parts are calculated from 0°Aries?
Parts are calculated from the point of the ASC degree
http://libracentre.com/arabic_parts_chart.php

Do you use the Arabic parts in horary?

They have nothing to do with 0° Aries as far as I know.

If I just put into this online calculator for finding Arabic part of love for the new chart, it is at 17.28° Virgo, conjunct the Nnode.
If I find part of lovers for the first chart, I get Scorpio 16.18°

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It is not really necessary, traditionally it is taught this way, but actually adding the difference to the Asc degree, is the same thing. To be honest I've never really know why many authors explain it this way

Ok Dirius, I slept on it and I think I got an answer

But it still puzzles me what you said above in this thread:

It can be more easily proven just by looking at charts:

- Looking it the standard way, we get no receptions.

- Looking it the opposite way, we get receptions from the querent to quesited (both candidates)

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...because this statement is simply not true. There are receptions and generosity of course looking at it both ways -

1. the standard way shows Saturn being generous to the Sun and Mercury since he is hosting them in his house and will let them do what they like to do. We see Mercury receiving Moon as well, but the Moon cannot accept this reception or will be hurt by it because it comes from a sign of Moon's fall.

2. opposite way - or your way (that has no literature to support it though) you say it is the Sun and Mercury that like Saturn because they are in his house and the Moon likes Mercury because she is in his house.


I think this sentence from Frawley is indeed important in many cases:

Shared receptions are important clues.

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And this is what I noticed yesterday - Mars is a major player here since it is generous towards all three sigs, Saturn, Sun and Mercury - (but not connecting to them by aspect though). Moon is also being affected by Mars since there are two planets casting it's rays on the Moon from places of Mars' domicile and exaltation. So it is definetly not another partner for Saturn - it connects to all four planets, so to me seems to be some kind of mutual energy for those all. Mars is placed inside the 7th house with Venus about to conjunct it. I think that might give us a clue towards the answer here. It may not be about love, but rather about sexual connection (Mars/Venus) ...as indicated by the first question this woman did ask in Nov last year. But there is hurting indicated since the Moon is aspected from signs of it's fall and detriment. In about 6 units of time the Sun will enter the 7th at the same time Venus conjoins the Dsc.

Arena said:

Ok Dirius, I slept on it and I think I got an answer

1. the standard way shows Saturn being generous to the Sun and Mercury since he is hosting them in his house and will let them do what they like to do. We see Mercury receiving Moon as well, but the Moon cannot accept this reception or will be hurt by it because it comes from a sign of Moon's fall.

2. opposite way - or your way (that has no literature to support it though) you say it is the Sun and Mercury that like Saturn because they are in his house and the Moon likes Mercury because she is in his house.

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Hey if you rather look at it that way, it is your chart not mine.

And adding a bit of very good instructions on horary techniques here is the thread where it says:

Mutual reception is not the only form of reception. Individual planets can receive others without being received in turn; such as the Moon in Sagittarius is received by Jupiter, without Jupiter necessarily needing to be in any of the Moon’s dignities. This example shows Jupiter’s willingness to provide for and assist the Moon in her endeavors, without showing the Moon’s willingness to return the favor.

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...and

Finally on the subject of reception there is the concept known as generosity where a planet is in the dignities of another but does not aspect its lord (let’s say Jupiter is in Cancer and the Moon is in Leo. No aspect is occurring between them). This is a much weaker form of cooperation as it removes the engagement an aspect brings and as a result, the planets aren’t able to work directly together, but it can still be useful in showing intent or a supporter from the sidelines. Many people dismiss generosity and do not consider aspects necessary for reception, but this is a classically inaccurate view of the technique. To be fair, there is hardly a functional difference between reception and generosity. The difference lies in the twos’ ability to get things done with reception being the more powerful of the pair, but consistent terminology is important.

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...and...

Negative Reception
On a final note, there is such a thing as negative reception. This is when a planet that signifies a thing is in the detriment or fall of the querent’s significator or vice versa. We’ll take Venus in Taurus as significator and Mars in Aquarius. Mars has negative reception with Venus because she is in one of his signs of detriment, essentially, Venus damages Mars in some way and Mars ends up rejecting her. This can happen the other way around where Venus can reject Mars if he is in her detriment. This is something that isn’t as cut and dry as the receptions rules where you want the queisted receiving the querent. It doesn’t really matter who is rejecting who as there is equal likelihood of both parties being injured or spurned in some way. Having the querent reject the queisted could be positive and show the querent having the upper hand and turning down the queisted, or it could show the queisted injuring the querent in a way that concurs with the rest of the chart.

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The idea behind rejection is that planets will insult or injure the planet whose debility they are in. An example is if Venus is in Aquarius and aspects the Sun then she insults him with her presence in a sign that harms him. The planet that is being insulted or injured will then reject the planet who is insulting it, this manifests as an obstacle towards or denial of an event.

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In this particular case I think it does mean that the "other man" is willing to allow the woman do what she wants, but she does not return that "favour" ... and the aspects to the Moon seem to indicate a negative reception so that they will be hurt and the Moon rejects them all - indicating that there will not be love between them although there might be something else.

http://starlightknightastrology.com/2011/11/horary-technique-receptions/

I believe both to work. Regardless of that, I find that in most cases the "opposite" way seems to fit the situations much better, at least to me, but anyone is free to choose the technique they employ. I'll explain a bit of WHY I like the "opposite" way.

EDIT: sorry for the walltext



When you look at most traditional sources talking about reception, most of them never go deep into the explanation of who has the intention towards who. This all begins with Bonatti's explanation, which can be given a different interpretation.

In essence the explanation given by most authors can be said to be:

When the planets forming an aspect find themselves in each other's dignities (either both, or one of them), the aspect perfects without problem, because of a measure of "good will between them".

The standard interpretation is that the planet who plays "guest" is loved by its "host". This is because the word reception, decribes the concept of the planet being recieved in the sign of the other.

For example bonatti's example
taken from this post:
http://www.skyscript.co.uk/reception2.html

For example, the Moon was in the third degree of Aries, and Mars (who is the Lord of Aries) was in the eighth degree of Gemini (or Cancer or Leo in front of her; or Aquarius, or Capricorn, or Sagittarius behind her): so the Moon was being received by Mars by aspect, and he was receiving her from his own domicile, and committed to her his own virtue and disposition.

Obviously Bonatti's description of it, is that mars commits its disposition to the moon, but it can very well be given a different interpretation.

Now the way this interpretation is used to, is for the perfection of events, mostly. Clearly the ancients didn't ask questions as: "Does he/she love me?"

(-) This is because in the ancient world, or medieval world, you didn't "date", you married someone, and that was forever....so people were more likely to ask about an event perfected. So...usually aspects concerning said event, were better with reception (making the planet more inclined to complete the aspect), but didn't worry about having the person be "in love". In fact you can look at most examples presented by Bonatti, Lilly, etc...most of them ask about an event (marriage), not feelings.

Now the Frawley's interpretation of having receptions work in the opposite way, comes from William Lilly. Most may wonder why, since never lilly uses this way of reception. Except on one situation: when he describes the ruler of the 1st inside the 7th house.
Frawley's theory behind is that, if according to Lilly the person that is inside the other person's house is seriously in love, usually you will find the planet in the dignity of the other (because the 7th is mostly the sign of the other planet).

This does make sense, because usually the querent loves the quesited, we know this by the simple fact they are asking the question.

But this is from the perspective, on a question about love and feelings, not about a specific event like getting married.

So the way to settle this should be testing it in horary. Here we have a whole forum filled with charts of people who had their hearts broken.

** I should note that, for bonatti, the most important receptions are Regency and exaltation so I'll base it on that.
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We can obviously pull some updated examples:

1) Posted by user 2112: http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/showthread.php?t=81861

Here we find the querent asking if a relationship will develop. We know the querent likes the quesited (it is implied by the question):

Querent is represented by Mars (1st) / quesited by Venus (7th). Mars is in Piscis, the Exaltation of Venus.

According to the OP's story, the guy hasn't shown much interest in her, but she (the querent) is completly infatuated. So it seems to fit the "opposite reception" theory. If it was the standard way, it should be the other way around.

2) Posted by user NeverSafe: http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/showthread.php?t=80580

Here the querent asks about a guy she "really" likes. She is Venus (1st), he is Mars (7th). Venus is inside the 7th house, in Scorpio the regency of Mars.
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Most straightfoward questions ("I like him/her, does he/her like me back?"), usually have the 1st ruler or Moon in the dignity of lord 7th. So does this chart .

...it makes sense, because the querent is the one usually in love.

Other examples:

http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/showthread.php?t=80301
http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/showthread.php?t=80072
http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/showthread.php?t=80026