I am confident I discovered America's True Natal Chart

The Natal Chart outlays the early tendencies of the person. It is SO critical to nail down the Natal Chart as much as you can. Because no astrologer, no matter how good he/she is cannot accurately read unless the infomation is accurately there. When I show this chart, I will make my case for it. Or rather, the chart will make the case for itself. As for how I found this beauty? I was messing with the time zones lol.

The Major points of evidence:

Libra ASC: What better of an ASC for a country that has constantly intervened in wars and other events that had no importance whatsoever? Even in historic tense. The creation of America was because of Britian's tyranny rule over the colonies and it's citizens. A Pure Libra ASC fits America to the hardcore.

America's Sun: In this chart, America's Sun is pressured to the extreme. And unless you flunked history. You'll know that this country literally rose from the ashes. It's government and army weak. It's people flustered. Compare that to the British Empire? Our victory was amazing. I'll get to why we won. But tight squares to our ASC and Saturn show the struggles and the hardship.

America's True Node in Leo/10th house:

The True Node(North Node) is the place of our destiny. It is where we are supposed to progress. It should be noted our President-Elect has this same node in this same sign. Furthermore, in the 7th house of communication. So it was like Obama was connecting to this nation's desire. The True Node in Leo refers to a very powerful destiny. Indeed, America was destined for great things.

America's Grand Air Trine:

America has a Grand Air Trine consisting of 3 planets: Moon, Saturn, Mars.

I would attribute this to America's eventual overwhelming firepower in Military. Or I could also attribute this to America's willingness to hand it's military power over in assistance(Air=Flows/carries over) Why don't I attribute it to both. Since to produce a powerful country, let alone a military one must be spiritually willing to work together. And an Grand Air trine allows you to do just that.

In particular. The Gemini=The sign of intellicutal thought/stubborness sometimes(Mutable), The Libra=The Social Sign/Balance(Cardinal), The Aquarius=The Sign of Perfection(Fixed) all balance each other nicely.

Saturn imposing his will in the ASC can be a good thing or a bad thing. It could give the Libra ASC/America the strength to overcome mulitple pinches. Or it could very well put America in a pinch.

I also will take note of the Cancer Stellium which points to America's charity at times of need. But that's not too overly important compared to this revealing aspect:

Chiron in Aries/7th house:

America's ultimate downfall could exist here, infact. I wouldn't be surprised if the transits are currently activating Chiron's most very unfortunate placement here. Chiron is the wounded warrior, he is the spiritual teacher. He is the ultimate advisor. He is the one who leaves a mark on you and tests you. To see if you can get back up again. Chiron in the 7th house alone indicates the difficulties that America will have communicating with it's allies and as well as it's own kind.

Never mind Chiron being in Aries the Ram. This to me is an indicator of the Bush Years and how we through our military might wrongly communicated to the world.

I'd like to hear what others think about this beautiful gem I found.

I have another American chart listed in Liz Greene's book The Outer Planets & their cycles. The source was Rudhyar.

The chart has Sagittarius rising, here is a few quotes on the interpretation of the chart, keep in mind this is shortened as this is an older book and the transits are not relevant for this topic. I found it an extremely interesting interpretation for America's Natal Chart. I understand that often in astrology we can make anything fit, but there are some interesting points raised in the book as why the chart fits for America. I guess it's still open for interpretation which one is right .

I am personally convinced by Rudhyar's chart because it seems to describe to me what I see very accurately. Saturn is in the 10th house in Libra, and the Mid-heaven is around 2 degrees of Libra. Saturn falls in square to the natal Sun-Jupiter conjunction in Cancer in the 7th house, which deals with the other whether it's a person or another country. The tenth house in mundane charts always refers to the styles of government, the leader, just as an individual chart it is the person's image or persona in the eyes of the world, the things which rule him in terms of external standards of behavior.

America's image of authority and rule in the world might take a bit of buffeting. Saturn in Libra tends to set itself up as the arbiter of rights, the fair judge and leader guide. That is of course the role America has played for a long time in terms of presenting itself this way to other nations. Saturn in square to the sun in a person's chart suggests a deep sense of inadequacy and insecurity, and a need to prove oneself over and over again to others. I would say the same thing about the aspect appearing in a national psyche. It is a defensive aspect, and when Jupiter is thrown in it can become boastful and self aggrandising in order to mask the feelings of doubt.

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I have found an interesting article by Serbian astrologer Nikola Stojanovic regarding about America's chart. I find it very interesting that he states that when a black man takes power, the country will collapse.

AMERICA The empire which will COLLAPSE
the day a black man takes the leadership

»It is beyond any doubt that in the second half of the 20 century the USA became the most powerful country in the world. The fascinating thing is (like it or not) that they gained this power in less than 200 years of their existence. My first thought as an astrologer was that they must have had a powerful horoscope. However, I was puzzled when I saw the horoscope of America...
According to that horoscope, the USA was born under Cancer, Ascendant in Gemini. I started to have doubts about the accuracy of that birth chart and, after some thinking, I came to the conclusion that USA’s Ascendant must be in Sagittarius. For Gemini Ascendant the stated time of birth is: 4 July 1776, Philadelphia, 2. 15 AM.
Please note: don’t you find it strange for a country to be » born » at 2 hours and 15 minutes in the morning, and in the 18 century nonetheless, when people lived in accordance with laws of nature and went to bed as soon as dusk drew near! As far as I know history, there were no such pressing issues to make them burn candles and tallow-candles (electricity had not been invented yet) just to be able to proclaim the statehood of USA. I personally think that USA’s Ascendant is Sagittarius.....
Source: [URL="http://www.astrologyinserbia.com/e/nikola/amerika_krajimperije.htm"]http://www.astrologyinserbia.com/e/nikola/amerika_krajimperije.htm[/URL]

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Thanks for posting this article Amit89. I had not read it before and I enjoyed reading his conclusions for the Sagittarius Asc.

I am still very much so a beginner. So I'd like to have a bit of a lecture on orbs and how they make the difference in terms of reading charts?

Sibley anyone? I'm sure that's where Rudhyar stole his chart from. All of the placements mentioned there appear, so I can only assume. Poor Sibley.

July 4th, 1776. 5:10pm Philadelphia

Not trying to take away from the Poster of this topic, just adding my thoughts.

According to Wikipedia, Independence was approved on July 2nd, it was called the Lee Resolution:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lee_Resolution

I will also insert a quote directly from The World Almanac:

"The Lee-Adams resolution of independence was adopted by 12 "yeas" on July 2-the actual date of independence. The Declaration, which explains the act, was adopted July 4."

So, take July 2, and I am going to hypothesize, and use the hypothetical 2:22 pm:

This places the Sun over Sirius, it also place the 12th house over Saturn, and the 2nd over Haumea, and Moon Pluto conjunction by a degree in the 3rd.

Ya'll can figure out what it means, if anything.

The best way to redefine whether or not a chart is real is to look at progressions and transits as well as Solar Arcs. I find progressions to possibly be the best way of clarifying one's birth or figuring out why "X" happened.

So I used the most recent and most catastrophic event in US History: The 9/11 terror attacks which would eventually lead us into the so called "War on Terror"

America's T-Square:

The T-Square shown in the progression utterly painted the picture:

It involved Mars in Libra, Jupiter in Cancer and Venus in Aries.


There's two things to be looked at that verifies this chart. Mars in Libra. This indicates action being taken for "justice" or supposed justice. Note that Venus sits in the 11th house, with it's ruler Aries.

The 11th house means friendship, also socializing. And guess who's there? Chiron. The same Chiron that's in the seventh house natally.


The world does not like the Arrogant America, who bombed Iraq and other middle eastern countries for years. While in a time of crisis, when Saddam was killing the Kurds, they looked the other way.

America also seems to have a Grand Earth Trine. Looking at the planets though, it's pretty self-explantory. Pluto-Neptune-Moon.

Pluto resides in the 8th house of death. Neptune resides in the 4th house of home. And the Moon is in the 12th house of Secret Enemies.

Neptune(Vision), Moon(Feeling), Pluto(Death) in a grand trine shows the stunned sadness and the horrors of the vision of the 9/11 attacks for the American People.

Also the activation of the 4th/8th/12th clearly showed devastation to come on this day. This chart is the correct one IMO.

I agree with the others to the Sagittarius rising for a number of reasons, although it is true that the majority of signers did so on July 2nd 1776 and not on July 4th, when the few stragglers signed and it was officialy adopted.

As to some of the other comments, I'm going to post this once and let it go

Soapbox on:
Let me be the lone astrologer who's not a liberal or a Democrat or a hippie who doesn't think Obama is the second coming nor that the Bush years were hell on earth. America "looked away" while the Kurds were being killed, but then again, I don't recall any Europeans getting all worked up over it either. Or while Hamas, Hezbollah, Fatah, and numerous other groups were killing Jews and Palestinians alike left and right, or while Rwandans were being murdered by the hundreds of thousands or the Serbs were slaughtering Muslims by the thousands (oh yeah, Americans took care of that one too while Europe stayed home and pontificated). This is an astrology board - keep your political opinions to yourself.
Soapbox off.

Political opinions? This is KNOWN history, therefore in regards to the History of this nation. It is to be recorded at all times. And it looks like you didn't look at the chart. Because if you did, the 4th, 8th, 12 houses are all activated. There's no denying that. There's also no denying the activation of the Aries Chiron, which by no coincidence is also with Venus.

There is no Political reading with this! One of Theo's rules, which I'll apply because it's common sense. Is to take one's own desires out of it and to focus entirely on the chart. Do I want to be right? Yes, I have quite the bit of confidence in myself. But do I let that distort the chart? No I do not. And this chart is not distorted. I am pretty sure every astrologer here would interpret this chart the same way.

Debunk the chart astrologically and it will be my honor. Attempt to say that I used this to post my political views and naturally we'll be on the wrong foot with each other.

I already noted it. That Obama's True Node and America's True Node were both in Leo. Let us see the connections. In order to prove or disprove this chart. Let us investigate the election of this past November.

Obama was elected on his premise of change, compared to that of John McCain. Who's negativity and staying the same was unpopular for most of America. It was well noted early on that the one with the one with the strongest Capricorn in their chart would win. In the progressed chart of America on the day of the election. America's Pluto was stationed in Capricorn. But there's something much deeper, much more significant in this chart.

There's not one, but two T-Squares. These T-Squares are very revealing and it really makes me confident in this chart.

The first T-Square we will look at is the one that will verify this chart in my eyes and refute all criticism you held of me:

Mars in Libra, Jupiter in Cancer and Chiron in Aries.

Note that Mars=Action, Jupiter=Benevolence, growth and Chiron=Wound.

Jupiter is currently situated in the 2nd house of value and possessions. In other words money. Combine that with the Venus-Chiron conjunction and you have, spelled out loudly enough a 1st grader could read it. The flunking economy .

And if the first T-Square was about the economy, then let's look at the second T-Square:

Sun in Pisces, Moon in Leo, Uranus in Gemini.

This T-Square is really what doomed McCain if anything. If we consider the Sun to be the Soul of a person, then can we consider the sun to be the soul of the country in this case? The Soul of America was headed in a direction that was not reflecting the feelings(Moon) of the people. Resulting in opposition charged by Uranus in it's natural home of Gemini which has become the country's progressed(moving forward) ASC.

Hm.
I too am for the Sagittarius rising ascendant. America is the perfect, perfect prime example for a Sagittarius-ruled country. We like things big, big and bigger, our people are unusually big, we value our freedoms and we are an expansive country. We are the birthplace of Walmart, an unecessarily gigantic store. We are the birthplace of the skyscraper, again unnecessarily gigantic buildings. America itself is huge, our cities and etc are spread out, which is unique to some parts of the world. We are extremely lucky in terms of location and bountiful resources. America is the place of "opportunity", and "fulfilling dreams", "expansive wealth". The country was built on the concept of freedom. It is obviously Sagittarian.

Libra really doesn't resonate to all this. Libra is all about moderation and balance.
As far as intervening wars, Sagittarius is a very outspoken sign that likes to preach and expects others to adhere to their beliefs (while not actually practicing them all the time, themselves).

The Sibley chart's time is correct. But the time zone is not. Remember, the country was created in 1776. Meaning the nation was not that advanced, they didn't know of various magnisms of the earth. This construes the astrology.

Confusedpisces said:

The Sibley chart's time is correct. But the time zone is not. Remember, the country was created in 1776. Meaning the nation was not that advanced, they didn't know of various magnisms of the earth. This construes the astrology.

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I don't see how that matters (if that was true). That would imply every ancient chart is incorrect. As long as you have the birth date, time and location, that's all that matters. Time zones are fake, anyway, they aren't a 'law'.

It makes a great deal. Try using the GMT with the same time as the Sibley chart. The GMT=UT, Universal time.

That brings about an interesting point to consider. I don't though, think they would have used GMT themselves. Otherwise they'd have the sun rising at midnight.

Thanks so much for pointing that out! I never would have thought about it!!!

Even still, comparing US to Libra versus Sagittarius, America is obviously more Sagittarius.

Since I feel very confident in this chart I'll take on a very interesting and very complex part of our history: The unfortunate assassination attempt on President John F.Kennedy. Nearly an entire American populace unaware, John McCain said this in regards to Obama's walking out publically:

"Obama said "At anyplace, at any time" the way Barry Goldwater and John F.Kennedy agreed to do before the intervention...uh tragedy in Dallas".

Intervention? There is infact a movie indicating the CIA agents acting strangely in such a way that risks the President's safety:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HbNZF2gMUeA

Conspiracy? Or could this Libra Chart point to something much more auspicious.

And the chart is..........3 for 3 . Remember all energies can mean different things good or bad. And Trines= energies flow through easily.

So the Grand Trine exists between Mars in Libra, Uranus in Gemini and Pluto in Capricorn. Uranus can often act as a kind of energy button. Something to start it up. So the energies to be able to easily commit such an vicious and violent act are there through the grand trine.

But this chart shows more then the Grand Trine. Mars in 6th house of Health and Public Servant. Uranus in the 2nd house of Value and Possession, Pluto in 10th house. The house of Government, your leader the highest arc.

There's alot more then the Grand Trine. Pluto and the True Node are in 180 degree opposition. But that's not just it either, they exist in the 4th/10th axis that is shown in many assassinations of leaders.

And to cap it all off, that Chiron is activated in Aries once again. This time, in the twelvth house of Secret Enemies.

Confusedpisces said:

Saggitarius may fit the whole "freedom" mantra, but Libra fits the whole "USA being a peacekeeper". And acting along the lines of justice.

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Yea, but that's pretty much where it starts and ends. I don't see Libra in the architecture or "aura" in America, nor in its peoples', nor society. Being a peacekeeper is a byproduct of the Sagittarius belief of liberties and freedoms, and as Sagittarius naturally has a foreign interest, this belief is then impacted abroad as well. Sagittarius is the teacher and philanthropist, and America likes to think itself as educating the world.

And if we think how this country is so built on foreigners since its conception I think it's pretty concrete.

I edited my post with my third progression for a historic event. And astrology truly is a science.

Maybe, but another astrologer has this comment:

The Sibley chart works for me because it has a 12 degree Sagittarius/Gemini Ascendant/Descendant. On Sept. 11, 2001, the deadly Saturn/Pluto opposition in Gemini/Sag was straddling the Ascendant/Descendant of the Sibley chart. I rest my case.

To me, the Aquarius Moon denotes how much freedom women have had in America compared to the Old World as well as our “melting pot” culture, which generally embraces immigrants (except for when times get tough and we turn on them, but that’s another story).

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http://astrologymundo.wordpress.com/2008/05/07/the-coming-us-depression/