Twelfth house hidden enemies and our saboteur

Carmaela26

Active member
In my opinion, Saturn is not our saboteur but the key to seeing it and understanding it or where we sabotage ourselves. Saturn shows you fear and your fears are where you need to explore if you want to expose your saboteur wiht the light of consciousness.

Neptune, to me, would be more the saboteur, possibly as it rules the 12th house, which is about our "self-undoing" and it represents things like escapism and alcoholism, etc.

The 12th house has always eluded me and was always difficult for me to grasp. That's what it's like...like trying to grasp water or air.

Like Neptune, it is diffuse.

But right now I am in a relationship with someone and our composite sun and Jupiter are in the 12th house. I am, for the first time, beginning to understand the trappings and glamor of the 12th house.

I think it is a relationship built more on fantasy and rose-colored lenses. It is undefined, addictive and strange and we have telepathy. I feel like we have been together before and have unfinished business. I always felt that way. Sure enough, we have a 12th house sun and Neptune squaring our mars in Pisces. Go figure.

But it's neat to see how that energy is playing out. It's funny this is the house of self-undoing as we met in the workplace and our relationship would be a big no-no, so again, like Neptune and the 12th, must be kept secret for the time being.
 

Osamenor

Staff member
Groovy. Transits to my Aquarius house and placements have had a huge impact on my interest in astrology

Which house is your Aquarius house?

My seventh - forcing me to look at some of my biggest flaws.

And you have multiple placements in that house, too? Which planets? What houses do they rule?

I'm working on a theory here. My Aquarius house is empty, so I don't see such a strong effect there, but I do connect my interest in astrology with another part of my chart. I have natal Venus retrograde, in my eighth house (ninth whole sign) and it rules my fifth and tenth houses. I had no interest at all in astrology until the very time when my Venus turned direct by progression.
 

Osamenor

Staff member
But right now I am in a relationship with someone and our composite sun and Jupiter are in the 12th house. I am, for the first time, beginning to understand the trappings and glamor of the 12th house.

I think it is a relationship built more on fantasy and rose-colored lenses. It is undefined, addictive and strange and we have telepathy. I feel like we have been together before and have unfinished business. I always felt that way. Sure enough, we have a 12th house sun and Neptune squaring our mars in Pisces. Go figure.

But it's neat to see how that energy is playing out. It's funny this is the house of self-undoing as we met in the workplace and our relationship would be a big no-no, so again, like Neptune and the 12th, must be kept secret for the time being.
Interesting story!

Do you also have significant Neptune or 12th house showing up in your synastry with this person? Or just in the composite?
 

MoonlightSonata

Well-known member
And you have multiple placements in that house, too? Which planets? What houses do they rule?

I'm working on a theory here. My Aquarius house is empty, so I don't see such a strong effect there, but I do connect my interest in astrology with another part of my chart. I have natal Venus retrograde, in my eighth house (ninth whole sign) and it rules my fifth and tenth houses. I had no interest at all in astrology until the very time when my Venus turned direct by progression.

My Aquarius house is empty too. However, Mars was transiting it around the time I joined AW. And I anticipate more seventh house activity on the 21st when Jupiter and Saturn team up and transit it.
 

MoonlightSonata

Well-known member
In my opinion, Saturn is not our saboteur but the key to seeing it and understanding it or where we sabotage ourselves. Saturn shows you fear and your fears are where you need to explore if you want to expose your saboteur wiht the light of consciousness.

Neptune, to me, would be more the saboteur, possibly as it rules the 12th house, which is about our "self-undoing" and it represents things like escapism and alcoholism, etc.

The 12th house has always eluded me and was always difficult for me to grasp. That's what it's like...like trying to grasp water or air.

Like Neptune, it is diffuse.

But right now I am in a relationship with someone and our composite sun and Jupiter are in the 12th house. I am, for the first time, beginning to understand the trappings and glamor of the 12th house.

I think it is a relationship built more on fantasy and rose-colored lenses. It is undefined, addictive and strange and we have telepathy. I feel like we have been together before and have unfinished business. I always felt that way. Sure enough, we have a 12th house sun and Neptune squaring our mars in Pisces. Go figure.

But it's neat to see how that energy is playing out. It's funny this is the house of self-undoing as we met in the workplace and our relationship would be a big no-no, so again, like Neptune and the 12th, must be kept secret for the time being.

I can see how Neptune can be thought of as a saboteur in that it can make us make mountains out of molehills and believe our inner critic and try to cope or escape via drink and drugs. And I suppose Pluto could also be a contender since it reveals our obsessions and destructive tendencies. Maybe, maybe not.

Hope some friendly planets transit your 12th so you and your S.O. can continue to enjoy your privacy.
 

Osamenor

Staff member
My Aquarius house is empty too. However, Mars was transiting it around the time I joined AW. And I anticipate more seventh house activity on the 21st when Jupiter and Saturn team up and transit it.

Jupiter and Saturn are naturally going to put a strong focus on wherever they're transiting, because it's such a slow transit.

My association with Saturn transits in particular is, when Saturn is hard angling something in your chart, anything new you start has a strong chance of becoming a long term commitment.

When I joined this forum, I was going through a Saturn square Sun transit. But I really connect Mercury retrograding over my angles with the turning points there. The day I joined, Mercury was stationing retrograde just past my MC; it then retrograded over my MC. When I became a moderator, Mercury had just retrograded over my AC. And Saturn had just been dancing over my AC when I set up my website, which was the first "shingle" I hung as an astrologer.

But on the subject of your seventh house, that seems to me to be another house of sabotage... and it is, in fact, the other house of enemies besides the twelfth. But in the seventh house, the enemies are known.

The sabotage that goes with the seventh house is projection. Planets in the seventh seem to be the ones whose characteristics people most often disown in themselves, especially if the planet is Pluto or Mars (sometimes Venus too, especially for men). If you disown that planet, you project its characteristics onto others, and you draw people into your life who reflect those characteristics back at you, usually in the worst possible way.

So here we have another correlation between the seventh house and the twelfth.
 

MoonlightSonata

Well-known member
Jupiter and Saturn are naturally going to put a strong focus on wherever they're transiting, because it's such a slow transit.

My association with Saturn transits in particular is, when Saturn is hard angling something in your chart, anything new you start has a strong chance of becoming a long term commitment.

When I joined this forum, I was going through a Saturn square Sun transit. But I really connect Mercury retrograding over my angles with the turning points there. The day I joined, Mercury was stationing retrograde just past my MC; it then retrograded over my MC. When I became a moderator, Mercury had just retrograded over my AC. And Saturn had just been dancing over my AC when I set up my website, which was the first "shingle" I hung as an astrologer.

But on the subject of your seventh house, that seems to me to be another house of sabotage... and it is, in fact, the other house of enemies besides the twelfth. But in the seventh house, the enemies are known.

The sabotage that goes with the seventh house is projection. Planets in the seventh seem to be the ones whose characteristics people most often disown in themselves, especially if the planet is Pluto or Mars (sometimes Venus too, especially for men). If you disown that planet, you project its characteristics onto others, and you draw people into your life who reflect those characteristics back at you, usually in the worst possible way.

So here we have another correlation between the seventh house and the twelfth.

Yeah, we have lots of opportunities to be our own worst enemy (e.g., Saturn, Neptune, seventh house, etc.) if we take advantage of them, and I like that astrology can help us I.D. them and, hopefully, put us on the right track.

As for the upcoming Jupiter-Saturn conjunction and its effect, I'm guessing the next few years will be sprinkled with philosophical discussions with enlightened, philosophical Jupiterian people and childish "I know you are, but what am I?" fights with opinionated gas bag Jupiterian people who will alter my view of partnerships. And Saturnian sage-like people may encourage me to let my freak flag fly, but remember to choose quality over quantity.

Laissez les bons temps rouler!
 
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