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Traditional Astrology For discussions on Traditional Astrology only. (Note: Typically, traditional astrology is defined as using techniques developed prior to 1700 by astrologers from the Hellenistic, Persian, Hebrew, and Renaissance eras. In general, it relies on Ptolemaic aspects (sextile, trine, square, opposition and conjunction) though there may be some exceptions, and always excludes modern planets (Neptune, Uranus and Pluto,) as well as any asteroids. The focus is less on what would be considered modern psychological chart interpretation and more on prediction. Members who wish to explore a combination of traditional and modern ideas should feel free to start a new thread in an appropriate forum for further discussion.)


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Unread 12-30-2019, 12:48 AM
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Antiscia by Transit and Dignities

My Saturn is Peregrine however it's antiscia point is at 22 Capricorn. Would this help Saturn with it's Peregrine status since it would now be in its domicile?

Also, the upcoming Saturn/Pluto conjunction is partile to this placement and occurring in my 12th house. I've seen some references to transits to antiscia points bringing out what is hidden into the open. Given the double whammy of antiscia and 12, I would think it would have to be a pretty powerful transit to make this happen. I think Saturn/Pluto would qualify and I have been feeling the heaviness/penetration as a kind of free-floating anxiety.

Any thoughts on this?

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Last edited by Kite; 12-30-2019 at 12:50 AM.
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Unread 12-30-2019, 01:09 AM
petosiris petosiris is offline
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Re: Antiscia by Transit and Dignities

The Saturn/What conjunction?

Oh no, the sheriff of the police is coming to get you now.

Btw, Saturn in Sagittarius is operative according to Ptolemy, because of diurnal rulers.
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Unread 12-30-2019, 01:18 AM
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Re: Antiscia by Transit and Dignities

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Originally Posted by petosiris View Post
The Saturn/What conjunction?

Oh no, the sheriff of the police is coming to get you now.

Btw, Saturn in Sagittarius is operative according to Ptolemy, because of diurnal rulers.
Okay so think Antiscia Saturn return. My Sag Saturn is in Hayz as well. How do you define operative?
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Unread 12-30-2019, 01:30 AM
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Re: Antiscia by Transit and Dignities

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Okay so think Antiscia Saturn return. My Sag Saturn is in Hayz as well. How do you define operative?
Inoperative planets include cadent planets, planets under the rays, evening retrograde planets and planets in fall, some Hellenistic authors include planets in houses, exaltations, triplicities and terms of the opposite sect to this group.

Operative planets include anything else, but I use an additional term ''powerful'' to designate the most operative of them - rising and culminating planets, morning direct and planets in their own houses, exaltations, triplicities and terms. Some called the middle group ''semi-operative'' and what I call powerful/dignified planets ''operative''.

This makes more sense to me personally than medieval and renaissance rules of peregrination.
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Unread 12-30-2019, 01:33 AM
petosiris petosiris is offline
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Re: Antiscia by Transit and Dignities

Though, Saturn is in triplicity in Sagittarius according to some. So even if we go by the later definition of peregrination, it may not be according to some.
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Unread 12-30-2019, 01:41 AM
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Re: Antiscia by Transit and Dignities

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Inoperative planets include cadent planets, planets under the rays, evening retrograde planets and planets in fall, some Hellenistic authors include planets in houses, exaltations, triplicities and terms of the opposite sect to this group.

Operative planets include anything else, but I use an additional term ''powerful'' to designate the most operative of them - rising and culminating planets, morning direct and planets in their own houses, exaltations, triplicities and terms. Some called the middle group ''semi-operative'' and what I call powerful/dignified planets ''operative''.

This makes more sense to me personally than medieval and renaissance rules of peregrination.
My Saturn is within 13 degrees to my Sun so technically would also be under the rays, no? So back to my original question, can you pick up dignity with an antiscia position?
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Unread 12-30-2019, 01:48 AM
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Re: Antiscia by Transit and Dignities

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My Saturn is within 13 degrees to my Sun so technically would also be under the rays, no?
If you want to follow the Ptolemaic way that is more truthful to reality - it depends - https://www.astrologyweekly.com/foru...d.php?t=125928

Most astrologers used 15 degrees so technically it could be, some would take into account the fact that it is rising not setting. For the record I personally no longer consider planets under the rays as weak, I mentioned it only for completeness and for comparison with the tradition.

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So back to my original question, can you pick up dignity with an antiscia position?
First time I've ever heard of it, though I am most familiar with Hellenistic astrology, in which almost all authors except Firmicus use them sparsely and only to modify interpretation of aspects in sextile and trine that are equally displaced from the solstices (either due to a sidereal zodiac as in most authors or due to a whole sign consideration as in Ptolemy). It isn't widely known, but the antiscia according to the majority of Hellenistic astrologers of Sagittarius is Aquarius, not Capricorn.

Last edited by petosiris; 12-30-2019 at 01:55 AM.
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Unread 12-30-2019, 01:53 AM
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Re: Antiscia by Transit and Dignities

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Originally Posted by petosiris View Post
If you want to follow the Ptolemaic way that is more truthful to reality - it depends - https://www.astrologyweekly.com/foru...d.php?t=125928

Most astrologers used 15 degrees so technically it could be, some would take into account the fact that it is rising not setting.
True and it's applying to the MC as well (within 6 degrees) so that probably helps its strength.
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