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Sports Astrology This is the place to share ASTROLOGICAL TECHNIQUES FOR DOING SPORTS PREDICTIONS. It is NOT the place to ask for betting advice. People posting sports betting predictions requests (e.g., "Who will win X game?" WILL HAVE THEIR POSTS REMOVED. Astrologers posting answers WITHOUT using astrology (e.g., "X will win Y game" WITHOUUT giving the astrology behind it WILL HAVE THEIR POSTS REMOVED. SHARE your sports astrological methods and techniques and DISCUSS the best ways to ASTROLOGICALLY predict sports.


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  #26  
Unread 03-05-2010, 10:24 AM
att75 att75 is offline
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Re: My Method

Hi Konrad,

thanks for sharing your method.

Were you able to predict surprise results, underdogs beating faves? If yes, could you attach a chart + explanation of a game like this?

I've been experimenting with the game chart method as well, but without consistent results. (Thus at the moment I somewhat share Bob's skepticism.) But, I haven't used the antiscia of the sigs, only that of POF, so it just may be the trick. As for using colors, I've found the astrology of colors quite a mess, and during my last "phase" of game-chart-experiments, I gave the ascendant to the home team, regardless of colors. The results remained inconsistent... But, I'm going to try out your method during the weekend. And will report my questions and findings (if any).

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  #27  
Unread 03-05-2010, 11:29 AM
Konrad Konrad is offline
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Re: My Method

I have been able to predict underdogs beating favourites. Using my method though, there needs to be a couple of strong indications of a win for the underdog. I have been more successful predicting draws in these sorts of circumstances. I'll look out a chart I did last month which demonstrates this.
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  #28  
Unread 03-05-2010, 12:09 PM
Konrad Konrad is offline
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Re: My Method

Ok, here's a game involving heavy favourites.

St. Mirren vs Rangers




St. Mirren:

- Kit: White with black stripes


Rangers:

- Kit: Blue with white shorts


I have no odds for this match as it was done so long ago and as my method was not so advanced, I had no use for them. However, anyone who knows Scottish football will know that Rangers and Celtic are the two dominant teams, so much so that they finish 1st and 2nd in the league almost every season and have won 94 league championships between them since the league was formed. St. Mirren are relegation battlers and will be judged accordingly.

The colours. St. Mirren are white and black. This fits Mercury in Capricorn. Rangers are therefore Jupiter in Pisces which also happens to fit their blue and white colouring.

St. Mirren:

- Mercury 24 42' Capricorn (5 18' Sagittarius)
- Saturn 4 08' Libra (25 52' Pisces)

Rangers:

- Jupiter 4 28' Pisces (25 32' Libra)
- The Sun 17 36' Aquarius (12 24' Scorpio)

The Moon: 23 53' Scorpio (6 17' Aquarius)

POF: 5 37' Aries (24 23' Virgo)


Firstly we look at placements. The Lord of the 4th, the Sun, is in the 10th cusp. I have found these sort of interactions (4th/10th) to be mute in the decision-making, even the Lord of the 1st or 7th being in the opponent's 10th house is limited in it's ability to affect the game. Here I will ignore it. There are no other placements.

Next we look to aspects. First thing we have is a sextile between the Moon and the antisca of the POF, this helps the ASC team and therefore St. Mirren. The next aspect is a sextile to Mercury, again helping St. Mirren. Finally, we have a minor testimony in the trine of the Moon to the antisca of Saturn, Lord of the 10th. Again, this helps St. Mirren.

Now, I judged this chart before I came to the conclusion not to start the teams equal, so I judged St. Mirren to win. A huge upset! This intrigued me, so I watched the game live and even though St. Mirren had plenty chances to fulfill my "prophecy" for them, they decided not to win that game. It ended a draw. In Hindsight (marvelous thing), I can see St. Mirren were in a strong position but not strong enough to win it.

If you are thorough in your analysis of the chart i.e the positions of antisca, aspects etc. then you've done the easy part and are much more geared towards the correct judgement. The difficulty lies in judging whether or not the poorer team receives enough of a boot up the back-side to overturn their starting handicap. As I have said, this is difficult at times and especially so when there is a huge favourite with the chart against them. The only way to deal with this is experience and therefore practice.

Again, I'll say it: I am not 100% accurate with this but when I go back and look at my mistakes, the picture becomes evermore clear and I become more confident it works.
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Last edited by Konrad; 04-19-2011 at 11:57 AM.
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  #29  
Unread 03-05-2010, 02:47 PM
att75 att75 is offline
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Re: My Method

Thx for this fine example. Yes, it's clear that Rangers surely were strong faves. And in this case, predicting that Rangers wouldn't win - nicely done!
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  #30  
Unread 03-05-2010, 03:21 PM
Konrad Konrad is offline
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Re: My Method

Yeah, this sort of thing is pretty handy if you bet on exchanges as you can bet on a team not winning which in this case would have been worth it.
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  #31  
Unread 03-06-2010, 03:21 PM
att75 att75 is offline
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Re: My Method

Quote:
Originally Posted by Konrad
Remember, the nature of the aspect is important and that aspect must be an applying one. I'm sure I read somewhere that an aspect is considered exact until around 18 minutes of seperation, I have found that to be true in these charts. However the most I have seen is 13 minutes, that's not to say it isn't 18 minutes, I just havent seen it yet.
Hi Konrad,

I'm following Rangers-St.Mirren (this duo again... ) at the moment. The ASC is at 17LEO00 if I got the chart right. At first sight, I can't see anything very important, no planets near the angles, etc. Although, there are 2 aspects:

Moon-sextile-Saturn(L7) and Moon-trine-Mars(L10)

but these are separating! Does it mean that these aspects simply don't count?

There is one applying aspect though:

Antiscion-Moon-sextile-Venus(L4)

although it's almost 3 degrees wide.

Is there something I missed? I can't see anything that could be enough for St.Mirren not to lose the game. (It's 2:1 at the moment for Rangers.) BTW, I have a hard time assigning the ASC, neither team seems OK to be Leo/Sun, maybe I would give the DSC-Saturn to Rangers because their color is close the dark blue.
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  #32  
Unread 03-06-2010, 03:35 PM
Bulletbobb Bulletbobb is offline
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Re: My Method

I haven't been following this too closely, but there is one thing you might want to keep in mind. There are far more significant or sensitive factors in astrology that we don't use than there are that we do use. Just because some factor isn't mentioned in Konrad's method, or any other, doesn't mean it/they may not be operating in a particular chart.

A couple of years ago when I was investigating Frawley's method I had a number of charts where the result just didn't fit the outcome as predicted. Now, in a situation like that I could have tried to force the result to fit the method, and I have no doubt that, had I looked hard enough, I would have found that the antiscion of Cupido was biquintile Fortuna, or some such rubbish. Instead, I did up the midpoints, and in several cases found appropriate midpoints right on the angles. I remember two or three where JU/UR was on the MC, one with SU/MA on the IC, and I think one with SA/PL on the DSC.

There is absolutely no reason why antiscia would be valid in a game chart and midpoints not. A priori, I would think it would be the other way around. Another possible factor would be some of the Arabic parts, like death, peril, etc.

I was in touch with a knowledgable sports astrologer some time ago who told me that separating aspects are valid in these charts, if they're close.

Just something to think about.

Regards,

Bob
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  #33  
Unread 03-06-2010, 03:55 PM
Konrad Konrad is offline
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Re: My Method

Well thanks for the constrcutive comments Bob. How would you suggest we use midpoints more accurately when we use only two main planets as significators or is this another naysayer post? Frawley's method is flawed as he starts the teams as equal when they are obviously not added to that he assigns the favourites the ASC no matter what.

Att75, I have also done this game. I have been experimenting with quincunxes and I have found them to work. In this chart (and almost every other chart for the 15.00 UK games) the Moon is quincunxing the POF, this helps the DSC team. I also assigned the DSC to Rangers. I know these quincunxes work now as I am looking at the results coming in from all over the UK and there is a pattern of the dark coloured teams getting victories or unexpected draws against lighter teams. I'm gonna post a couple of them tonight when I have the inclicnation to write it up.
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  #34  
Unread 03-06-2010, 04:01 PM
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Re: My Method

Sorry, I forgot to reply about the aspects. I don't use seperating aspects if they are over somewhere around 18 minutes. I can't see an aspect between the antisca of Venus and the Moon on my chart, maybe you could post yours? I am trying these charts without using the Lords of the 4th and 7th for a time to see if I get good results but I will still use the relevant houses.
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  #35  
Unread 03-06-2010, 04:03 PM
Konrad Konrad is offline
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Re: My Method

One more thing. Bob if you search the skyscript sports forums, I'm sure they have a couple of lengthy posts on using arabic parts in these charts. I have tried using the Part of Victory and Part of Success, I didn't see any effect.
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  #36  
Unread 03-06-2010, 05:19 PM
Bulletbobb Bulletbobb is offline
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Re: My Method

As I recall my thoughts about midpoints from two years ago, I concluded that the midpoints operated independant of rulerships. Obviously, having JU/UR on the MC would be favorable for the 1st house team, SA/PL the reverse.

You would have to experiment with the Arabic parts in a number of charts. No one factor is enough to decided a game on it's own. I suspect they would require rather small orbs. Fortuna has larger orbs because of the factors in it's makeup. At least some Arabic parts have been found valid in astrology in general, from which one can conclude that they should work in sports also. Trouble with any of these things is that once you open the door you're likely to get trampled by the horde of 'things' that come dashing out. That's why I never followed up on the midpoints idea. Which ones to use? Where to draw the line?

Why do you consider my posts to be in the naysayer category? Because I'm not a fan of the color method? If so, I have alot of company, as I don't know of anyone 'over here' that uses it. I'd even consider it myself if someone could get the color assignments somewhat in line with basic principles.

Time for lunch,

Bob
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  #37  
Unread 03-06-2010, 05:45 PM
att75 att75 is offline
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Re: My Method

Quote:
Originally Posted by Konrad
I can't see an aspect between the antisca of Venus and the Moon on my chart, maybe you could post yours?
My mistake: I meant antiscia of Moon 26CP01 - sextile - Venus 28PI52.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Konrad
I am trying these charts without using the Lords of the 4th and 7th for a time to see if I get good results but I will still use the relevant houses.
You mean without the lords of 4th and 10th?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Konrad
... a pattern of the dark coloured teams getting victories or unexpected draws against lighter teams. I'm gonna post a couple of them tonight when I have the inclicnation to write it up
I'm looking forward to it.
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  #38  
Unread 03-06-2010, 05:46 PM
Konrad Konrad is offline
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Re: My Method

I don't consider all your posts to be naysayer, just a couple.

I've never really looked into midpoints much so of course I've never tested them and though intriguing, I don't plan to any time soon. As you rightly say, when you introduce one new method into your existing set-up, you open alot of new doors and adding midpoints to the mix would, for sure, makes things too confusing for me just now.

I understand your concerns about using colour and I have had problems with it myself but funnily enough not for the reasons you may have. It drives me insane when a team play in a kit that they don't usually play in or I have bad information on their colours; it ruins everything.

As to some principles, it isn't as hard as you may think. Try not to be over-awed by it. Each planet goes against one other all of the time (apart from Saturn which goes against the Sun and the Moon). This makes it much easier. The planets all take some time to go through their current signs too (I don't use the Moon as a significator) so there is ample opportunity to get it right. Another thing is that even though in a perfect world both planets match both teams, we only need one to match up. The other is assigned by default. In general:

Sun vs Saturn: we're looking for light vs dark repectively. Sun does represent red, yellow, gold, purple and Saturn black, brown, dark green but if I had a light blue and a blood red I can be almost certain that the Sun is the light colour and the Saturn the dark.

Mercury vs Jupiter: Mercury is rather mutable, so it takes on the colours of it's current sign alot. It is white and yellow. Jupiter is expansive and vibrant and so are it's kits. Bright reds, deep blues, purples. Again though, each planet's characteristics can be found in the relevant kits. Black may not fit either planet strictly, it is more likely to be Mercury as black doesn't scream expansion or vibrance to me. You often get red vs blue in football matches. In this case they are both Jupiter colours but looking at the nature of them, red is more vibrant and more akin to Jupiter than Mercury.

Venus vs Mars: Calm vs intensity. These selections are pretty simple. Colour-wise Venus is soft and gentle while Mars is deep, dark and intense.

While I do admit I get some wrong at times, this is a simple method once you practice it and think "outside the box". The colours don't have to be 100% matched to what you've got on paper but each planet has a flavour, a feel, as does each kit. It's just a case of matching them up and as I said, it takes around a month for the quickest planets to move through a sign so you have plenty of time to see how that sign affects the selection.
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  #39  
Unread 03-06-2010, 05:49 PM
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Re: My Method

Quote:
Originally Posted by att75 View Post
My mistake: I meant antiscia of Moon 26CP01 - sextile - Venus 28PI52.



You mean without the lords of 4th and 10th?



I'm looking forward to it.

We don't move antisca towards planets, only planets towards antisca.

Yes, without them. I am wondering how much effect they actually have. The placements of planets on the cusps have an effect, I sure, but I'm not so sure about the Lords. The thing is though, to know for sure I need many games kicking off in the same area at the same time to really test it and sometimes that takes a while.
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  #40  
Unread 03-06-2010, 07:33 PM
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Re: My Method

Quote:
Originally Posted by Konrad View Post
One more thing. Bob if you search the skyscript sports forums, I'm sure they have a couple of lengthy posts on using arabic parts in these charts. I have tried using the Part of Victory and Part of Success, I didn't see any effect.
Do you work with them as points, or doing with their dispositors? In "normal" horary chart it is dispositor that counts.
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  #41  
Unread 03-07-2010, 12:05 AM
Konrad Konrad is offline
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Re: My Method

I tried both but I wasn't gaining any information from the chart that I couldn't find using the main significators and the Moon.
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  #42  
Unread 03-07-2010, 10:52 AM
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Re: My Method

OK, thanks.
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  #43  
Unread 03-07-2010, 11:40 AM
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Re: My Method

The Almeria-Barcelona match ended 2:2 yesterday, which is quite a surprise as the visitors were strong faves. I followed the game on TV so I know that there was a serious delay: the game began at appr. 20:13 instead of 20:00. It's interesting because the ascendant would have been Virgo hadn't the game been delayed this much. But at 20:13, the ascendant was already Libra. So L1=Venus, L7=Mars. L1 Venus was just outside the 7th cusp (so in the 6th house - I guess this is what outside the 7th means). I guess this supported the L7-Mars team. Almeria was mainly read, Barcelona yellow - Almeria Mars, Barca Venus. I hope this analysis is not a total fluke.
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  #44  
Unread 03-07-2010, 12:14 PM
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Re: My Method

I've just looked at that chart. Venus rules Barca as they played in yellow and Mars rules Almeria as they are red. In the chart Venus is on the cusp which means they control that house giving them the advantage but Venus is in Pisces and the cusp in Aries. Being in different signs negates that effect. Both the planet and the cusp must be in the same sign.

If the significator is in the house it is controlled by that house, if the significator is outside that house but within a couple of degrees, it controls that house

The testimony which gets Almeria the draw is a quincunx between the Moon and the antisca of the POF.

I was keeping an eye on that game and I noticed the delay, so I just forgot about it. If the game kicked-off at the correct time, the significators would have been Mercury and Jupiter and the Moon squared both of them. It's crazy to think that the game result may have been different if they had kicked-off at the scheduled time. I guess we'll never know what would have happened but it makes you think.
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  #45  
Unread 03-07-2010, 12:31 PM
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Re: My Method

Oh, I was going to post this earlier but I forgot:

http://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/en/

It is a great site. You can search a team in the search panel, pull up their screen and half-way down on the right side you have a section "next fixture" clicking on the "V" logo will bring up their next game and if there are any interesting stats about the teams (such as ****** haven't won in the last 3 games) it will list them under their name. Very handy when looking at form.
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  #46  
Unread 03-07-2010, 05:09 PM
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Re: My Method

Hi All,
I probably missed the posting in which it shows the colors of the Futbol team colors- so I was curious and found this about team colors....

http://www.soccer.com/Navigation.pro...4&N=4294958603

if anyone has a better link I would love to see it
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  #47  
Unread 03-07-2010, 05:21 PM
Konrad Konrad is offline
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Re: My Method

Thanks for the link! I also find wikipedia handy but some of the more exotic countries' teams are not fully updated kit-wise.
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  #48  
Unread 03-07-2010, 06:13 PM
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Re: My Method

Wow Thank you for that information- you are welcome to the information about the link!
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  #49  
Unread 03-08-2010, 01:33 PM
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Re: My Method

Konrad:

It appears that your method shares a number of points with Frawley's, yet differs in others. You have never stated directly what the points of agreement are.

Below I have inserted a list I put together a couple of years ago when I was testing Frawley's method. I went through his examples carefully, and I believe this list is a complete summary of his method. I would be interested in learning of those areas where you disagree with himl.

BTW, the formatting of the original was not entirely preserved when pasted into this window. If anyone wants the cleaner version let me know and I'll see what can be done.

Bob




From Sports Astrology
by John Frawley


I. House Placement
A. Planets
1. A planet on a cusp controls that house
2. A planet inside a cusp is controlled by that house
3. Orb: 2-3 degrees at most (what's important is where it's at, not where it's going)
4. Planets apply or separate from cusps
5. A planet either on or inside its own house is strengthened but not so much as if its opponents planet is there.
6. If retrograde and in enemy house it makes no difference.
7. If retrograde and on enemy cusp it is still positive but not as strong
8 Antiscia follow the same rules as a planet, but not quite as strong.
9 A planet close to a cusp counts only if it rules a house (p.110)
10. He ignores new planets even if they rule one of the key houses and are on a cusp (p.110)
11. Ditto for aspects to key rulers by new planets.


B. The Moon
1. The Moon doesn't stand for either team: it shows the flow of events.
2. The Moon on either side of the 1st cusp or 10th cusp is for the favorite
3. The Moon on either side of the 4th cusp or 7th cusp is for the underdogs
4. The same for its antiscion
5. Other placements are irrelevant.


C. Fortuna
1. Use the house of the antiscion of Fortuna, not its bodily placement
2. Same rules as the Moon
3. Can be very powerful

II. Aspects
A. Planetary aspects
1. Ignore aspects between Ruler of 1st and 7th or 4th and 10th

B. Moons aspects
0. Aspects only to the four key house rulers.
1. Are very important
2. Use orb of 5-6 degrees
3. The end of the sign is the limit for aspects
4. The nature of the aspect seems not to matter. Uses major aspects.
5. Moons final aspect to ruler wins.
6. Bodily conjunctions are usually final. Don't take Moon past a conjunction.
7. If Moon aspects R1 that favors the favorite, regardless of the planet or aspect.
And so for the other aspects.
8. Aspects to antiscia are less reliable. Conjunctions or oppositions are strong.
9. The Moon can be taken past antiscial conjunctions unless the conjunction is at 5-6 degrees. Then it's usually final.
10. Long-range antiscial conjunctions are final, short-range ones are not. (p.112)
11. If the Moon is R1 or R7 keep the Moon as the flow of events; use its dispositor as ruler of that house
12. If the Moon is R10 or R4 keep the Moon as the flow of events; do without a ruler
(Ex.: If Cancer rises and Moon is in Scorpio and Mars is R10, use Mars as R1 (as dispositor of the Moon) and do without R10.)
He is rarely confident of charts where Moon is either R1 or R7. Dual role causes confusion


C. Fortuna
1. Keep Fortuna still: things come to aspect her. Except nodes.
2. Lunar aspects to Fortuna:
a) Cnj, Tri, or Sxt Fortuna or its antision favor the favorites
b) Sqr or Opp to Fortuna or its antiscion favors the underdogs
c) Use same oranges as before
d) Aspects to Fortuna or its antiscion are final regardless of other aspects it may make within its range.
3. Aspects by key rulers to Fortuna
a. R1 to Cnj Fortuna or its antiscion favors the favorites
b. R1 to Opp Fortuna or its antiscion favors the underdogs
c. R7 to Cnj Fortuna or its antiscion favors the underdogs
d. R7 to Opp Fortuna favors the underdogs (he's not certain of this)
e. R7 to Opp the antiscion of Fortuna favors the underdogs
f. Use only Cnj and Opp. Orb about 5 degrees, about 1 degree for 'new' planets
g. Watch for refranation and other prohibitions
(if R1 makes another aspect before Fortuna there is no aspect)
h. Aspects by R4 or R10 to Fortuna aren't decisive by themselves.
4. Dispositor of Fortuna
a. If dispositor applies to Cnj of Fortuna it favors the favorites
b. If dispositor applies to Opp of Fortuna it favors the underdogs
c. If dispositor of Fortuna is R10 or R4 give priority to its role as dispositor
d. If it is R1, R7, or Moon, forget it as dispositor


D. Nodes
1. North node good. South node bad
2. House placement or conjunctions to angles seem not to matter (p.115)
3. But significators are helped or harmed. Powerful testimony.
4. Fortuna conjunct north node helps favorites; Fortuna conjunct south node helps the underdogs (Cnj only. Orb: 2 degrees at most)
5. Moon doesn't belong to either side, so conjunctions don't matter
6. Applying to or by doesn't apply. The nodes are 'csnters of goodness or nastiness'. (p.110)

E. Antiscia
1. Keep antiscia still. The Moon and planets apply to them (p.110)
2. If an antiscion and the node are within orb they are conjunct regardless of which applies. (It's the closeness that counts (p.112))


III. Combustion
A. Is destructive. Orb: 2 degrees
B. Fortuna combust is good for the underdogs
C. Moon combust means nothing


IV. Retrogradation
A. No effect, but note direction of movement


V. Fixed stars
B. No effect


VI. The New Planets
A. Orb: 1 degree, max (on p.94 he uses 1.5 degrees)
1. Pluto
a. destructive if ona key cusp
b. If Cnj or Opp Fortuna or its antiscion or dispositor it favors the underdog
c. Hurts the favorites, even if on the 2nd cusp.
2. Neptune
a. Inconsistant, but make hurt the favorites. Watch this.
3. Uranus
a. Inconsistant
b.If applying 'immediately' to MC strongly favors the favorites
c. Conjuct Fortuna it favors the favorites
d. Opposite Fortuna it favors the underdogs
e. Orb: 1 degree max
4. Saturn
a. Unless R1 or R7 it is afflictive
b. This takes precedence over being R10 or R4, etc.


VII. Miscl
A. If Mercury and Jupiter rules the angles, use R1 and R7 and do without R4 and R10.
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Unread 03-08-2010, 02:49 PM
Konrad Konrad is offline
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Re: My Method

Ok, I'm currently testing out a couple of new ideas at the moment but I'll leave them out and just list what I did as of the weekend.

House Placement:

Agree with all but:

3. I only use two degrees at most for the Moon, the main sigs, the POF and their antisca's.
5. I've not found this to make too much differnce
7. Doesn't make much difference.
8. I agree but I am not 100% on that yet.
9. Yea but Uranus and Pluto are malefic and have to be within a degree or so to have an effect. I've not had enough opportunity to test Neptune.

The Moon:

Agree with it all.

Fortuna:

Agree with most but I'm not sure about the body placement. I also use a 1 degree limit on it's antisca.

The Moon's aspects:

Disagree with:

2. I'm experimenting with a number of orbs, I don't see any reason for a limit on the orb, before the end of the sign that is.
4. The nature does matter.
5. No, I find aspects are cumulative.
6. No.
7. See no. 4.
8. All aspects matter. I'm sure Frawley belives this too. It is the aspects of the significators to POF that he only uses conjunction and opposition.
9. Again, I'm using larger orbs.
10. Nothing is final.

Fortuna' aspects:

Agree with most of it, especially the nature of the aspect. Again, I'm not using orbs at the moment. Not seeing much effect when a sig contacts Fortuna.

Nodes:

Disagree with all of it. I have some evidence that the nodes on relevant house cusps effect the game, needs more testing though.

Combustion:

I'd maybe even limit it to 1 degree and it is very destructive. Fortuna combust means nothing.

Outer planets:

As I said before, Pluto and Uranus malefics, Neptune needs more testing.
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Last edited by Konrad; 04-19-2011 at 11:59 AM.
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