QUOTE:I'm sorry I don't have a contribution, but I figured instead of starting another topic about sort of the same thing, maybe I could wedge this in here:
What is the difference between "detriment" and "fall"??
I'm sorry I don't have a contribution, but I figured instead of starting another topic about sort of the same thing, maybe I could wedge this in here:
What is the difference between "detriment" and "fall"??
I have come to consider Fall a more difficult situation (regarding planetary expression and its quality) than detriment (reverse of Lily's outlook, quoted above)
Moog said:Yes, while I do enjoy reading Lily, I believe he's off base with his ideas about exaltation and fall.
I have come to consider Fall a more difficult situation (regarding planetary expression and its quality) than detriment (reverse of Lily's outlook, quoted above)
Lilly's ideas of exaltation and fall are no different than any other medieval author. The various dignities and debilities, as well as their effects, were fairly standardized by around the turn of the first millennium CE. It's mostly going to depend on what specific tradition you follow, but the medieval tradition is pretty straightforward on this topic.
In that case, I still don't like those ideas, but let's not blame Lilly specifically?
I don't quite agree that detriment planets are worse than fallen planets.
In general, individual charts need to be studied on an individual basis to determine how it plays out in the person's chart. I don't buy into detriment planets being "weak" but rather, "misguided" or "untrained" energies. After some time, detriment energies are able to resolve some of their shortcomings and can function quite well.
As for fallen planets, I think they're pretty much doomed to being busted because their energy is so deflated to begin with.
My analogy of detriment and fall would be to consider guests at a party. The detriment guest is the one who came to the party not knowing how to act and as a result, over do it and seem to try too hard. After getting familiarized with the atmosphere, the detriment guest learns what to do and what not do so they don't have to try too hard at the wrong moments. The fallen guest is the one who came to the party with half a tank of energy and either fell asleep somewhere during the most exciting/entertaining part of party or they just duck out early and no one seems to care. Either way, the fallen guest cut things short.
I don't quite agree that detriment planets are worse than fallen planets.
In general, individual charts need to be studied on an individual basis to determine how it plays out in the person's chart. I don't buy into detriment planets being "weak" but rather, "misguided" or "untrained" energies. After some time, detriment energies are able to resolve some of their shortcomings and can function quite well.
As for fallen planets, I think they're pretty much doomed to being busted because their energy is so deflated to begin with.
My analogy of detriment and fall would be to consider guests at a party. The detriment guest is the one who came to the party not knowing how to act and as a result, over do it and seem to try too hard. After getting familiarized with the atmosphere, the detriment guest learns what to do and what not do so they don't have to try too hard at the wrong moments. The fallen guest is the one who came to the party with half a tank of energy and either fell asleep somewhere during the most exciting/entertaining part of party or they just duck out early and no one seems to care. Either way, the fallen guest cut things short.
That's fine if that's the way you want to conceptualize it. I just see "corrupted" as being much worse than "weakened".
But it's completely stated that fall is the weakest and most corrupted... That is why it is labelled all across astrology to be the worst. It is an equivalent to a square aspect. A detriment makes the expression uncomfortable but a fall completely causes difficulty and a negative world in that area. It's not about what YOU think is worse, because it's already a fact that fall is worse