Using Planetary Patterns. The Bundle. Harrison Ford

Therese

Well-known member
I wish the tables were posted so I don’t have to squint.


astro-2atw-harrison-ford-64373-95722.png
 
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Therese

Well-known member
In the example Chart we have Uranus leading (cutting), Moon disposing the chart, exalted Jupiter on the. MC, .... They all work together and all are necessary.


By the knife analogy, if the "leading (cutting) planet is the cutting edge", does the trailing planet mean the point where one ought to apply pressure to utilize the cutting edge? Like the handle of the knife?

(Still a bit unclear here).


What about a sailboat? The gale kept me awake at night, that gave me the idea. Uranus could be the mast with the mainsail that captures the wind; the Moon and Jupiter the tiller/steering wheel, and Neptune the keel that gives counterbalance and prevents capsizing?


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david starling

Well-known member
What about a sailboat? The gale kept me awake at night, that gave me the idea. Uranus could be the mast with the mainsail that captures the wind; the Moon and Jupiter the tiller/steering wheel, and Neptune the keel that gives counterbalance and prevents capsizing?


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Neptune the rudder, keeping it on course, directed by the Moon at the helm. Uranos is a personification of the Heavens, so navigating by the stars.
 
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SunConjunctUranus

Well-known member
The bundle represents the most intensely concentrated sort of personality, wholly focused on the self and its interests.

This pattern is recognized when, ideally, all ten planets populate less than the span of a zodiacal trine, or 120 degrees. The tighter the bundle, the more intensely the characteristics of the type are expressed.

Well, I personally have a bundle birth chart BUT I'm not "intensely concentrated" at all.

We will use Harrison Ford as example. If Therese would be so kind as to post his chart here...? Thank you.

How you could explain that, greybeard?

 

david starling

Well-known member
Trines normally feature both planets in the same element; that is not true here. Instead both planets are in Common signs, signs of the same quality or mode, a cross-sign trine.

The elements primarily operate subjectively and are concerned with how we perceive and process information. The qualities describe how we deal with the outer world.

The Mutable (Common) signs work by adapting the self to surrounding circumstances. In the jargon of the Freudian crowd, they are "autoplastic". Adaptability, flexibility, and accomodation are hallmarks of this quality. We might call them chameleon-like. They are not normally bound by rigid ideals, principles or values. These signs tend to take life as it comes and are not much concerned with introspection or self-evaluation. And they are dualistic. These signs are fundamentally concerned with the social milieu and establishing themselves in it, finding their proper niche; they are people people.

Great description of Mutable. Very pragmatic and "now" oriented modality.
 
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JUPITERASC

Well-known member

GemwDepth

Account Closed
On the general frequency of the bundle or cluster pattern below. Rudhyar here was examining Benito Mussolini's chart.

“This Cluster pattern often appears in the ephemeris at certain times of history; but it does not seem too frequent among lists of 'notable horoscopes,' perhaps 'success' often requires more than a somewhat blind concentration of activities; both a somewhat larger perspective and a certain type of inner tension may be needed. In such a Cluster pattern much depends on its center of gravity.” Source: Dane Rudhyar, The Astrology of Personality (1936), Chapter 16.


The bolded part, seem to me, to be of Great Food for Thought.

One, it gives hints to how transits work in the native's life, and how few "real" opportunities may come by to a native of this pattern. Hence reminded of the often used keyword: Opportunistic.

Two, if one indeed have a narrow focus, and perhaps not well-rounded enough to understand a bigger picture. Certain actions at a particular point of time may not be too well thought-out and may be entirely self-based, and thus the native may not foresee consequences down the road at a much later time. Of course this is generalized and non-specific.

Third, if the native's energies are solely concentrated in a narrow, geometric domain. Then intensity applies, but this intensity is dependent on the winds of fate. At specific times in life, 100% of the natives energies are focused on 1-2 things. This may cause intense success, catapulted by the sole concentration of planet/energy. And of course deductively intense failure at other points. It makes me wonder what happens the rest of the time.

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Therese

Well-known member
That's borrowed from traditional astrologer Robert Schmidts NAUTICAL METAPHOR :smile:
https://books.google.co.uk/books?id...ge&q=ROBERT SCHMIDT NAUTICAL METAPHOR&f=false

I had to look that one up, I was surprized that a traditional astrologer would talk about the bundle pattern.

But what you meant was that the sailboat was already used in astrology as a metaphor. It makes sense, sailing has been around for a while. So it seems it's an analogy that comes from hellenistic astrology, where the lord of the ascendant, the lord of the lot of fortune, etc, are described as crew members, yes?

I think we are talking about two different ships.
 

GemwDepth

Account Closed
Any thoughts guys? Expanded or perhaps corrected upon my string of ideas above?

Perhaps tying the bundled trine as the "sailing ship", with transits...resulting in "intensity applies, but this intensity is dependent on the winds of fate"?
 

GemwDepth

Account Closed
Is this metaphor just for Harrison's pattern (fits it so well), or for the Bundle in general?

Well Harrison's Bundle has the stabilizing Trine, but not all Bundles do. I am under the current impression the trine operates like a 'well engineered sailing ship', more apt to handle 'the winds of fate'.

When the winds are good, it absolutely soars. When the winds are bad, its unlikely to sink or crash. We can extrapolate from there what may happen in a Bundle nativity when one does not have that Trine.

Yet, the sailing ship is still one ship in its lonesomeness, however well-engineered; hence entirely self-focused and self-sufficient.
 

david starling

Well-known member
Given the incredible convenience and range of the company known as Amazon, it might be instructive to view the Chart of Jeff Bezos, it's founder, and the driving force behind its expansion.
 

JUPITERASC

Well-known member
I had to look that one up, I was surprized that a traditional astrologer would talk about the bundle pattern.
But what you meant was that the sailboat was already used in astrology as a metaphor.
It makes sense, sailing has been around for a while.
So it seems it's an analogy that comes from hellenistic astrology,
where the lord of the ascendant, the lord of the lot of fortune, etc, are described as crew members, yes?
I think we are talking about two different ships.
Robert Schmidts NAUTICAL METAPHOR
https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=GjI8DgAAQBAJ&pg=PA666&lpg=PA666&dq=ROBERT+SCHMIDT+NAUTICAL+METAPHOR&source=bl&ots=ynKgqxAxz-&sig=ACfU3U32ykUzxWTVxIDrmOCfRbj-De2eCA&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjhj7qW_I7gAhXCShUIHb5tBuEQ6AEwCnoECAUQAQ#v=onepage&q=ROBERT%20SCHMIDT%20NAUTICAL%20METAPHOR&f=false
is well known amongst traditionalists
I merely highlighted it as interesting that a Modernist astrologer
would use a traditionalist analogy :smile:
 

david starling

Well-known member
As far as the sailing ship metaphor is concerned, I came up with it on my own, decades ago, concerning my Chart, and others like it, with a lot of Water and Air placements. For Earth and Fire, I (with so much Water) imagined it as a motorized boat, engine-driven, which enables the ability to go against the winds and tides without having to constantly take them into consideration. Similar minds think alike. :biggrin:
 
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JUPITERASC

Well-known member
As far as the sailing ship metaphor is concerned, I came up with it on my own, decades ago,


Robert Schmidt PUBLICLY described the NAUTICAL METAPHOR decades ago :smile:
concerning my Chart, and others like it, with a lot of Water and Air placements.
For Earth and Fire, I (with so much Water) imagined it
as a motorized boat, engine-driven, which enables the ability
to go against the winds and tides.
Similar minds think alike. :biggrin:
two interesting proverbs on the matter are - and I quote:

QUOTE

'....Great minds think alike....'
'....Fools seldom differ....' :smile:
 

Therese

Well-known member
Third, if the native's energies are solely concentrated in a narrow, geometric domain. Then intensity applies, but this intensity is dependent on the winds of fate. At specific times in life, 100% of the natives energies are focused on 1-2 things. This may cause intense success, catapulted by the sole concentration of planet/energy. And of course deductively intense failure at other points. It makes me wonder what happens the rest of the time..
It's interesting how our minds work differently. You are more concerned about external things, like opportunity and wind, while I was focusing on the structure of the ship.

What you want to know is where the ship can go, which makes sense, considering it's a means of travel. But everybody is dependent on the winds of fate, whatever pattern they have in their chart.

It can also be that most bundle people are not that much into "success". It depends on how you define it. Is success setting your own goals and achieving them? Or is it about obtaining a certain (higher) level of social standing - influence, wealth, etc? They might or might not go hand in hand. And if not, maybe bundles are less likely to trade inner significance for outer rewards...
 

david starling

Well-known member
It's interesting how our minds work differently. You are more concerned about external things, like opportunity and wind, while I was focusing on the structure of the ship.

What you want to know is where the ship can go, which makes sense, considering it's a means of travel. But everybody is dependent on the winds of fate, whatever pattern they have in their chart.

It can also be that most bundle people are not that much into "success". It depends on how you define it. Is success setting your own goals and achieving them? Or is it about obtaining a certain (higher) level of social standing - influence, wealth, etc? They might or might not go hand in hand. And if not, maybe bundles are less likely to trade inner significance for outer rewards...

Scorpio placements remind me of a submarine. :biggrin:
 

GemwDepth

Account Closed
What you want to know is where the ship can go, which makes sense, considering it's a means of travel. But everybody is dependent on the winds of fate, whatever pattern they have in their chart.

Oh, I was mentally comparing a Bundle nativity with say, a See Saw, or Splash, but thoughts were going too fast. :smile:

What I thinking was that…with the effect of transits on a See Saw/Splash, some areas may not be working well, but others generally will be, due to the inherent balance in the chart. But because the Bundle is so focused in a limited domain, there’s no such life balance.

The hypothesis being, when the ‘winds’ are just right and thus propelled, they absolutely soar. Depending on the makeup of the Bundle / ship of course. But when the ‘winds’ are not right, they either just coast along or it can be a disaster, if the ship isn’t contructed well. It looks more extreme to me.

It can also be that most bundle people are not that much into "success". It depends on how you define it. Is success setting your own goals and achieving them? Or is it about obtaining a certain (higher) level of social standing - influence, wealth, etc? They might or might not go hand in hand. And if not, maybe bundles are less likely to trade inner significance for outer rewards...

That’s true. Perhaps the ‘ship’ is primarily concerned with its own operation. It doesn’t pay much attention to the winds, or completion (e.g. anchoring itself to the dock, which would require thinking outside one’s self and one’s needs). It just does its own thing and attempt to do it well.

Yet, going back to the winds again :biggrin:...when the winds are right, do they fight with all they've got?

As far as the sailing ship metaphor is concerned, I came up with it on my own, decades ago, concerning my Chart, and others like it, with a lot of Water and Air placements. For Earth and Fire, I (with so much Water) imagined it as a motorized boat, engine-driven, which enables the ability to go against the winds and tides without having to constantly take them into consideration. Similar minds think alike. :biggrin:

Is your chart a Bundle as well?

Given the incredible convenience and range of the company known as Amazon, it might be instructive to view the Chart of Jeff Bezos, it's founder, and the driving force behind its expansion.

Not a Bundle or Bowl. It looks like a Bucket to me. That could be GB’s next topic.
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GemwDepth

Account Closed
It's interesting how our minds work differently. You are more concerned about external things, like opportunity and wind, while I was focusing on the structure of the ship.

Do tell us more about the structure of the Ship. How you perceive Ford's configuration operate. The most mysterious point to me is still the trailing planet, Neptune in Virgo in 12th.
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