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  #26  
Unread 12-07-2016, 01:31 AM
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Re: I think I just predicted my own death??!?!!?!

I only skimmed the replies, so forgive me if this is redundant.

A Solar Return chart is not read in a stand-alone manner. Transits for certain are not read in a stand alone manner.

The best way to accurately utilize a Solar return chart is to line it up with the natal, including houses, and see what themes are brought forward. The very best way to guage if those "transits" are going to affect you is to use in in conjunction with the profection chart, and determining which planets are active. Transits by and to those planets will be worth paying attention to.

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  #27  
Unread 12-07-2016, 02:22 AM
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Re: I think I just predicted my own death??!?!!?!

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This was a plea, craft94, not condescension. People have the bejeesus scared out of them by Amateur Hour with novice astrologers dabbling in death prediction. Why should you expect something so dire? A well-tended Uranus is the great liberator, not something that sends you to a nursing home. I hope you can read more widely on the multiple meanings of each of the houses.



Please expand your reading. One book I recommend if you're interested in traditional astrology is Deborah Houlding, Houses, Temples of the Sky. The 8th house as a repository of occult matters is a modern western astrology interpretation. The 8th seems to deal with mysteries of various sorts. I have noticed that 8th house people think about death more than most people. With other chart factors being supportive, someone with an 8th house stellium might do well as a hospice nurse, funeral home director, or paramedic. 8th house people also seem to be private people. One thing the 8th house does not indicate is your literal death. This was understood in ancient times.



Where did I say the death clock site was reliable? Obviously, you could have a longish life expectancy by its measures, yet get run over by a bus tomorrow.

Rather than worry about your timing and manner of death, try living each day to your best potential, and explore metaphysical or religious beliefs that would allow you to face death with calm and courage.
Me asking for a chart interpretation does not equate to not knowing enough about astrology. Of course, we could all benefit from learning more but that's most definitely not how it came across...the very fact that it is a plea is condescending... one thing I cannot stand is when moralizing and unsolicited advice is brought into an astrological discussion. Because I haven't even been worrying about death, at least not my own. I started this thread months ago. Something reminded me of it, and i wanted to know what people thought these transits did mean, since they don't mean death.

I agree with you; death predictions are unethical, because it gets people all scared, when in reality, the chart is most likely predicting something else entirely. But then again, there are things like this: http://bobmarksastrologer.net/forums...pic.php?t=5825 If I were in Bob's situation, I certainly wouldn't say, "you're gonna die!" but if an astrology does see something that could indicate some sort of danger (could be death, could be something else) then isn't it an astrologer's job to warn that person (while delivering this news in an optimistic, helpful way so as not to get the client unreasonably scared)?

I feel like the 8th house often represents a metaphorical death...

I'm inclined to think that this chart could be indicating a mental breakdown or some sort of institutionalization, because that's what I feel like makes sense with the story of my life, please don't tell me this means I haven't researched astrology, this is just my own opinion and I'm not even worried, just curious. I'm not a fatalistic person so whatever it is ,I think it can be changed.
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  #28  
Unread 12-07-2016, 02:46 AM
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Re: I think I just predicted my own death??!?!!?!

craft94, here's what you posted. If you didn't know you, how would you read the following?

Quote:
I think I just predicted my own death??!?!!?!
Quote:
I read somewhere that SR Ascendant in Natal 4th house could indicate year of death. I would normally shrug this off, except it isn't the only indication. My SR Ascendant in Virgo is also conjunct my natal Chiron, a year characterized by painful wounds, I'd imagine. They say Pluto is the planet of death, and the 8th is the house of death, and I'd normally shrug this off too - Pluto has been transiting my 8th house for quite some time now and I haven't been worried in the slightest (though a bit disappointed by the lack of powerful intense sex lol) - but again, it isn't the only indicator. In October of 2020, Pluto will be conjunct my natal Uranus (still in my natal 8th house) at 22 degrees Capricorn, with Saturn (bringer of death in traditional astrology?) close by at 25 degrees. Sudden death? Freak accident? Neptune ( at 20 degrees natal) probably brings some confusion and mystery surrounding the incident, idk). Obviously, since Uranus and Neptune are squaring my Sun/Mercury natally, SR Saturn and Pluto are also squaring my Sun. SR Lilith is opposing my Sun too, which I'd assume to be a bad thing? While retrograde Mars (planet of accidents?) in it's home sign isn't in direct opposition to my Sun, it is an opposition by sign and there's eventually going to be a transit, once it goes direct. My SR Vertex is conjunct my natal Saturn in retrograde... scary!I've also read that nodes were prominent in death charts: SR NN is conjunct my natal Asc! My SR MC is also conjunct my Asc by 2 degrees, which I think is supposed to be a good aspect but in this context, could it indicate a public death? I also see SR Uranus is conjunct my natal Moon/SN conjunction... by 4 degrees, but still. My Moon is situated in the 12th house and the thought of Uranus entering my 12th house is scary enough on it's own.
Quote:
What are your thoughts on this chart?? I know it's a long time away but it's freaking me out a little bit.
Quote:
Scared.
Quote:
I know most astrologers consider it unethical to predict death these days, and I can understand why, and I don't necessarily disagree, but if this chart doesn't scream "death" to you, what does it say? Like, what else can all those negative aspects represent? Often people hear that something in a chart relates to death and they'll freak out even though it's only one aspect, but there are multiple death indicators here, and that's worrying.
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  #29  
Unread 12-07-2016, 03:05 AM
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Re: I think I just predicted my own death??!?!!?!

I read the thread you posted on the Bob Marks forum and am just appalled that a professional astrologer would post this kind of material.

He said himself that a lunar return chart, which he used in his traffic fatality prediction, usually is not diagnostic. Presumably Mr. Marks is psychic, or else trying to drum up more business from emotionally vulnerable people.

Many people are terrified of death, and Bob Marks presumably charges for his services.

I would further think that if Pluto in the 12th but partile the ascendant wants you, deciding not to drive on that day means it will act up in some other fashion.

Marks said the driver who killed his client was a "secret enemy" but this is a big stretch. The other driver had no personal animosity to the client. Short-distance driving is a third house matter, incidentally.

Which points up the problem. If you read up on astrologers of death prediction, they don't all agree and will give you different answers.

Moreover, the traditional methods were developed when the average person's life expectancy was short and infant mortality rates were high. I think in ancient Rome, the average life expectancy was in the 30-year range. Prior to the invention of antibiotics in the 20th century, a simple infection might be enough to kill you.

Today the average life expectancy for young people in the US is in their mid- to-late 70s. The planets didn't somehow magically realign their orbits for this major change to take place.

In India where astrological death prediction is more common, I have seen newspaper accounts of people who didn't like their prediction-- and committed suicide to avoid what they thought would be a medically difficult death. Hello? Click? If death prediction worked, these men would be required to live out their fate. In another case, a well-known astrologer predicted his death date in the media, and quietly sat home to await it. It didn't happen.

I could go on in this fashion, but just to repeat: no, you did not just predict your own death.
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  #30  
Unread 12-07-2016, 03:24 AM
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Re: I think I just predicted my own death??!?!!?!

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craft94, here's what you posted. If you didn't know you, how would you read the following?
Yes, and as I've said, that was months ago. That's not what I said when I restarted the thread. You should know. You replied when I posted it then too.

I'm done. Say anything more about this issue, and I'll ignore you. I really don't enjoy fighting with strangers over the internet...but me saying "this is worrying" does not mean you need to plea me to study astrology.

Last edited by craft94; 12-07-2016 at 03:30 AM.
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  #31  
Unread 12-07-2016, 03:35 AM
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Re: I think I just predicted my own death??!?!!?!

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In India where astrological death prediction is more common, I have seen newspaper accounts of people who didn't like their prediction-- and committed suicide to avoid what they thought would be a medically difficult death.
Yes, and that's exactly why I agree that death prediction is wrong.

I don't necessarily think it's impossible though. I've seen a child's death depicted in a horary chart (before the child died, I didn't pick up on it then) and I'm skeptical of horary, but I don't think it does any good to tell someone, "you're gonna die!" because it's never something you can predict with 100% accuracy, because in most cases, it means something else entirely. 5th house and 8th house could both mean a lot of things; in this case, it just happened to mean a child's death. I would normally interpret that differently.
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  #32  
Unread 12-07-2016, 04:19 AM
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Re: I think I just predicted my own death??!?!!?!

craft94, there is no point in arguing, I agree. This isn't what I am doing. We actually agree on several points.

Here's a case in point to your last post to me.

A few years ago, I had a colonoscopy. My brother had recently died of colon cancer that wasn't detected till Stage 4, and my MD agreed this was a wise precautionary procedure for me to take. I cast a horary chart asking what would be the outcome of this test. (Not, "do I have colon cancer?") Subtle difference, but an outcome could have been the test showing fatal colon cancer. Well, the chart looked like a big piece of bad news, with a troubled 8th and 6th house. I took a deep breath, read further in my medical astrology books, and recognized that the colon is an 8th house matter, and predicted I wouldn't get a death sentence.

It turned out that the colonoscopy was incomplete (my colon was too twisted for the scope to get all the way up,) and I had to go back for a colonography later-- so the reality was that the test was inconclusive. (The subsequent colonography revealed that I was fine.) I posted my horary chart (attached) as a test exercise on another forum-- and a really good horary astrologer looked at it and thought it didn't bode well. But see what you make of it. I had another colonoscopy more recently, and am still fine.

Point being, a horary chart may reveal some kind of truth, but it may not be the obvious surface meaning. Many of us are not skilled enough to discern when the 8th house means death, when it means the colon, or when it has a hidden subtext of whether the querent stands to inherit sometime soon and might run up her credit card debt now.

The image that always comes to my mind is Mickey Mouse in the Disney cartoon Fantasia, playing The Sorcerer's Apprentice. I think we need a lot of humility about the limits of our ability before we start playing God with people's lives.

On the question of whether a death prediction could be beneficial, in giving a family member time to prepare for Grandma's death, my response is: tell Grandma you love her now. If possible, visit her now. If not, write to her, phone her, let her know how much she's meant to you, now.

If you want to plan your own future, just enjoy each day now, get your financial affairs settled now. Tell people you love them now.

Further, are you familiar with choice-centered astrology? I don't believe in a fatalistic, deterministic astrology. You can take steps to create an empowered 8th house.

tsmall, I looked at profections for the year of my brother's death. Jupiter in the 4th house.
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  #33  
Unread 12-07-2016, 05:01 AM
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Re: I think I just predicted my own death??!?!!?!

Quote:
Originally Posted by waybread View Post
craft94, there is no point in arguing, I agree. This isn't what I am doing. We actually agree on several points.

Here's a case in point to your last post to me.

A few years ago, I had a colonoscopy. My brother had recently died of colon cancer that wasn't detected till Stage 4, and my MD agreed this was a wise precautionary procedure for me to take. I cast a horary chart asking what would be the outcome of this test. (Not, "do I have colon cancer?") Subtle difference, but an outcome could have been the test showing fatal colon cancer. Well, the chart looked like a big piece of bad news, with a troubled 8th and 6th house. I took a deep breath, read further in my medical astrology books, and recognized that the colon is an 8th house matter, and predicted I wouldn't get a death sentence.

It turned out that the colonoscopy was incomplete (my colon was too twisted for the scope to get all the way up,) and I had to go back for a colonography later-- so the reality was that the test was inconclusive. (The subsequent colonography revealed that I was fine.) I posted my horary chart (attached) as a test exercise on another forum-- and a really good horary astrologer looked at it and thought it didn't bode well. But see what you make of it. I had another colonoscopy more recently, and am still fine.

Point being, a horary chart may reveal some kind of truth, but it may not be the obvious surface meaning. Many of us are not skilled enough to discern when the 8th house means death, when it means the colon, or when it has a hidden subtext of whether the querent stands to inherit sometime soon and might run up her credit card debt now.

The image that always comes to my mind is Mickey Mouse in the Disney cartoon Fantasia, playing The Sorcerer's Apprentice. I think we need a lot of humility about the limits of our ability before we start playing God with people's lives.

On the question of whether a death prediction could be beneficial, in giving a family member time to prepare for Grandma's death, my response is: tell Grandma you love her now. If possible, visit her now. If not, write to her, phone her, let her know how much she's meant to you, now.

If you want to plan your own future, just enjoy each day now, get your financial affairs settled now. Tell people you love them now.

Further, are you familiar with choice-centered astrology? I don't believe in a fatalistic, deterministic astrology. You can take steps to create an empowered 8th house.

tsmall, I looked at profections for the year of my brother's death. Jupiter in the 4th house.
W, I remember that. I remember trying to talk you out of that horary, since it went against everything you believe about astrology.

Jupiter in the 4th, as the killing planet? I love the allusion to Mickey and the mops. It's what my astrology brothers and I (and you on occasion) have talked about for years. Do not meddle in that which you ultimately cannont control.
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  #34  
Unread 12-07-2016, 07:18 AM
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Re: I think I just predicted my own death??!?!!?!

You proponents of predicting your death in advance, (based on your solar return), please be aware that the Solar Return (as well as the Lunar return) is a highly unreliable method of prediction and I have been studying my own solar returns for nearly 30 straight years !

My own birth time is from a hospital baby book, and the birth time has since been rectified, based on years of transits, progressions, arcs, and relocations.

Unfortunately, having an accurate birth time still can yield an inconclusive solar return.

I like good old fashioned transits, first, followed by Secondary Progressions.

Solar Arcs are a big fail, as well.

I am a big believer in midpoints, though, especially transits to the Sun/Moon midpoint.

As far as the Bob Marks astrology forum goes....ha ha, I think that many of the folks on that site are just plain psychos, how about weirdos ? But, it all obviously starts with Bob, himself ! Ironically, Bob never posts much on his own forum, too lazy? But then, neither does anyone else ! It's a forum abandoned by most, much like a leper colony ?

Last edited by sabumnim; 12-07-2016 at 07:33 AM.
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  #35  
Unread 12-07-2016, 10:33 PM
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Re: I think I just predicted my own death??!?!!?!

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W, I remember that. I remember trying to talk you out of that horary, since it went against everything you believe about astrology.

Jupiter in the 4th, as the killing planet? I love the allusion to Mickey and the mops. It's what my astrology brothers and I (and you on occasion) have talked about for years. Do not meddle in that which you ultimately cannont control.
With all due respect, tsmall, you do not know everything I believe about astrology. I certainly did not word the horary question as a death prediction, if this is what you mean. An unwanted colonoscopy result is not a death sentence, as some people do beat late-stage colon cancer, although they are a minority. I have no recollection of your trying to "talk me out of that horary."

Where did I refer to Jupiter in the 4th as "the killing planet?" I did not take it that way in the (separate) profection chart I did for the year of my brother's death. This example is just to suggest that the 8th house is not such a good diagnostic. In my metaphysical beliefs, my brother moved into a different dimension, and Jupiter is the planet of faith.

I am glad you liked my Disney allusion, though.
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Last edited by waybread; 12-07-2016 at 10:35 PM.
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Unread 12-08-2016, 01:42 AM
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Re: I think I just predicted my own death??!?!!?!

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You proponents of predicting your death in advance, (based on your solar return), please be aware that the Solar Return (as well as the Lunar return) is a highly unreliable method of prediction and I have been studying my own solar returns for nearly 30 straight years !

My own birth time is from a hospital baby book, and the birth time has since been rectified, based on years of transits, progressions, arcs, and relocations.

Unfortunately, having an accurate birth time still can yield an inconclusive solar return.

I like good old fashioned transits, first, followed by Secondary Progressions.

Solar Arcs are a big fail, as well.

I am a big believer in midpoints, though, especially transits to the Sun/Moon midpoint.

As far as the Bob Marks astrology forum goes....ha ha, I think that many of the folks on that site are just plain psychos, how about weirdos ? But, it all obviously starts with Bob, himself ! Ironically, Bob never posts much on his own forum, too lazy? But then, neither does anyone else ! It's a forum abandoned by most, much like a leper colony ?
I find Solar Returns to be very reliable...not necessarily for predicting death. Lunar Returns? Yes and no. I know this makes me sound obsessive but in an experiment to see how reliable they are, I've been looking at my lunar returns for the past year and comparing it to what I've written in my journal/what I actually remember happening that month. I generally find that the months just go by too fast to really mean anything, but I have noticed that during my most climatic months, a lunar return angle was conjunct the SR moon (which is also the ruler of the SR chart 2015-2016).

Last edited by craft94; 12-08-2016 at 01:48 AM.
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Unread 12-08-2016, 01:47 AM
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Re: I think I just predicted my own death??!?!!?!

[QUOTE=waybread;744775

Point being, a horary chart may reveal some kind of truth, but it may not be the obvious surface meaning. Many of us are not skilled enough to discern when the 8th house means death, when it means the colon, or when it has a hidden subtext of whether the querent stands to inherit sometime soon and might run up her credit card debt now.

The image that always comes to my mind is Mickey Mouse in the Disney cartoon Fantasia, playing The Sorcerer's Apprentice. I think we need a lot of humility about the limits of our ability before we start playing God with people's lives.

Further, are you familiar with choice-centered astrology? I don't believe in a fatalistic, deterministic astrology. You can take steps to create an empowered 8th house.
[/QUOTE]
I agree! and I'm glad to hear you're fine.

Just in case you misunderstood me, no one actually predicted a child's death in the horary chart, or if they did, they kept it to themselves for ethical reasons. Only that the person I asked about was going through something difficult that may prevent him from responding to me. It was only in retrospect, after I heard the news (which was a shock), that I noticed it in the chart. 5th house-8th house square could mean many things but in this case, a child's death was actually it.
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Unread 12-08-2016, 05:26 PM
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Re: I think I just predicted my own death??!?!!?!

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I like good old fashioned transits, first, followed by Secondary Progressions.

Solar Arcs are a big fail, as well.
Yeah Me too.

Transits for the catalyst. Secondary Progressions for all the players involved. And then, I'll look at the solar return followed by lunar for the rest of it.

I don't use solar arcs much either, since the progressions in a bi-wheel with the natal will complete the picture.
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Unread 12-08-2016, 09:21 PM
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Re: I think I just predicted my own death??!?!!?!

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I find Solar Returns to be very reliable...not necessarily for predicting death. Lunar Returns? Yes and no. I know this makes me sound obsessive but in an experiment to see how reliable they are, I've been looking at my lunar returns for the past year and comparing it to what I've written in my journal/what I actually remember happening that month. I generally find that the months just go by too fast to really mean anything, but I have noticed that during my most climatic months, a lunar return angle was conjunct the SR moon (which is also the ruler of the SR chart 2015-2016).
When I got into the astrology business back in the 1970's, the glamour boy at that time was this opera star turned astrologer named Noel Tyl.

Tyl was feted like some rock star and I have no idea why, in the same way that I do not completely understand why Donald Trump is popular or even the future President ! My own natal chart is quite weak and not very powerful, but some charts are perhaps better (luckier?) than others ?

Tyl then touted his encyclopedic, 12 volume Principals and Practice of Astrology, with b.s. spin and marketing similar to a New York ad agency ? which included the vastly over rated Solar Return and the equally overrated Lunar Return, complete with diagrams and testimonials and it was peddled to us in the astrology community like swiss cheese.

Meanwhile, HITLER was given a profile in Tyl's Principles series ? What for ? , we know that all of you Capricorns have a little bit of "Nazi" in you, why study Hitler? LOL you might as well study Donald Trump !

Fortunately, I am not sucked in, that easily ?

Companies like Neil Michelsen's Astro Computing Services made a freaking fortune back then, printing out solar returns and lunar returns for the public, at a buck a shot !

But, here's the problem. The Solar Return is bullsh*t and highly over-rated and astrologers like Noel Tyl deceived the public merely to sell their books !

And my own home library has all types of books; Tyl's books, Hand's books, books on the solar return like Alexander Volguine's, and I even took in a live seminar from the late Lois Rodden on Solar Returns, Lunar Returns, and even Mercury Returns !

Well, 40 years later, ask Herr Tyl what he thinks of solar returns and lunar returns, now ! LOL

Tyl disowns them ! Thinks they don't work for him, yet he wrote books about this technique ! But, guess what, his new love, which he touts in his newer books, is solar arcs, which absolutely REEK, FAILS, when it comes to accuracy and relevancy !

I had a personal reading done once by Tyl and the natal reading absolutely s*cked !

So yes, solar and lunar returns are a big fail ! Then, there is the thorny question of which solar return location works best, the one for the birth location, or wherever you happen to be on the date of the solar return !

Thankfully, I won't be lulled into that debate !

Last edited by sabumnim; 12-08-2016 at 09:39 PM.
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Unread 12-08-2016, 10:44 PM
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Re: I think I just predicted my own death??!?!!?!

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When I got into the astrology business back in the 1970's, the glamour boy at that time was this opera star turned astrologer named Noel Tyl.

Tyl was feted like some rock star and I have no idea why, in the same way that I do not completely understand why Donald Trump is popular or even the future President ! My own natal chart is quite weak and not very powerful, but some charts are perhaps better (luckier?) than others ?

Tyl then touted his encyclopedic, 12 volume Principals and Practice of Astrology, with b.s. spin and marketing similar to a New York ad agency ? which included the vastly over rated Solar Return and the equally overrated Lunar Return, complete with diagrams and testimonials and it was peddled to us in the astrology community like swiss cheese.

Meanwhile, HITLER was given a profile in Tyl's Principles series ? What for ? , we know that all of you Capricorns have a little bit of "Nazi" in you, why study Hitler? LOL you might as well study Donald Trump !

Fortunately, I am not sucked in, that easily ?

Companies like Neil Michelsen's Astro Computing Services made a freaking fortune back then, printing out solar returns and lunar returns for the public, at a buck a shot !

But, here's the problem. The Solar Return is bullsh*t and highly over-rated and astrologers like Noel Tyl deceived the public merely to sell their books !

And my own home library has all types of books; Tyl's books, Hand's books, books on the solar return like Alexander Volguine's, and I even took in a live seminar from the late Lois Rodden on Solar Returns, Lunar Returns, and even Mercury Returns !

Well, 40 years later, ask Herr Tyl what he thinks of solar returns and lunar returns, now ! LOL

Tyl disowns them ! Thinks they don't work for him, yet he wrote books about this technique ! But, guess what, his new love, which he touts in his newer books, is solar arcs, which absolutely REEK, FAILS, when it comes to accuracy and relevancy !

I had a personal reading done once by Tyl and the natal reading absolutely s*cked !

So yes, solar and lunar returns are a big fail ! Then, there is the thorny question of which solar return location works best, the one for the birth location, or wherever you happen to be on the date of the solar return !

Thankfully, I won't be lulled into that debate !
You're the only one debating.
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Unread 12-08-2016, 11:03 PM
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Re: I think I just predicted my own death??!?!!?!

Quote:
Originally Posted by sabumnim View Post

......Companies like Neil Michelsen's Astro Computing Services made a freaking fortune back then,
printing out solar returns and lunar returns for the public, at a buck a shot !

But, here's the problem. The Solar Return is bullsh*t and highly over-rated
and astrologers like Noel Tyl deceived the public merely to sell their books !

And my own home library has all types of books; Tyl's books, Hand's books,
books on the solar return like Alexander Volguine's,
and I even took in a live seminar from the late Lois Rodden
on Solar Returns, Lunar Returns, and even Mercury Returns !

Well, 40 years later,
ask Herr Tyl what he thinks of solar returns and lunar returns, now ! LOL


Tyl disowns them !

Thinks they don't work for him, yet he wrote books about this technique !
But, guess what, his new love, which he touts in his newer books,
is solar arcs, which absolutely REEK, FAILS,
when it comes to accuracy and relevancy !


I had a personal reading done once by Tyl and the natal reading absolutely s*cked !

So yes, solar and lunar returns are a big fail !
Then, there is the thorny question of which solar return location works best,
the one for the birth location,
or wherever you happen to be on the date of the solar return !

Thankfully, I won't be lulled into that debate !

With reference to the modern Solar Return
- originally known as
THE SOLAR REVOLUTION
more than a thousand years ago, in fact since approaching two thousand years ago
The Solar Revolution technique
essentially requires assessment in relation to Annual Profections
and other Time Lord techniques

I recommend Abu Mashar's On the Revolutions of the Years of Nativities
translated by Benjamin Dykes
http://bendykes.com/persians.php#t5
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  #42  
Unread 12-09-2016, 01:14 AM
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Re: I think I just predicted my own death??!?!!?!

I would take a solar return as one piece of evidence as to how your year ahead is likely to go. It is a snapshot in time, so it may well miss significant additional transits, let alone progressions, that occur further in the year. I wouldn't view it independently from the natal chart.

The lunar return chart is more about your short-term emotional life.
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Unread 12-09-2016, 03:29 AM
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Re: I think I just predicted my own death??!?!!?!

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With all due respect, tsmall, you do not know everything I believe about astrology. I certainly did not word the horary question as a death prediction, if this is what you mean. An unwanted colonoscopy result is not a death sentence, as some people do beat late-stage colon cancer, although they are a minority. I have no recollection of your trying to "talk me out of that horary."

Where did I refer to Jupiter in the 4th as "the killing planet?" I did not take it that way in the (separate) profection chart I did for the year of my brother's death. This example is just to suggest that the 8th house is not such a good diagnostic. In my metaphysical beliefs, my brother moved into a different dimension, and Jupiter is the planet of faith.

I am glad you liked my Disney allusion, though.
With all due respect, waybread, the chart you refer to and the conversation about your brother are two different things. And while I love you dearly, I remeber both differently.

The funny thing is that we both agree on THIS solar return chart. Let's just leave it at that.
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Unread 12-09-2016, 04:42 AM
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Re: I think I just predicted my own death??!?!!?!

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With all due respect, waybread, the chart you refer to and the conversation about your brother are two different things. And while I love you dearly, I remeber both differently.

The funny thing is that we both agree on THIS solar return chart. Let's just leave it at that.
Now I'm really confused. I mentioned one medical horary and one profection chart which, yes, are two different charts.

It's OK, tsmall-- I appreciate your affectionate sentiment, but to me love is a more personal emotion specifically shared with known people in my real life. It's not so much about saying to an on-line stranger, "I love you dearly but... [subtext="you are a complete brat."] There is a more generic benevolent kind of love for people, but few individuals seem to possess it.

But hey-- that's two points of agreement now : let's not be like Mickey in the Sorcerer's Apprentice, and the posted solar return chart does not look like a death chart. Shall we quit while we are ahead, or try for three?
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Unread 10-21-2019, 04:11 AM
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Originally Posted by ashriia View Post
Hi again.

Don't freak yourself out based on the Solar Return Chart, I know its difficult. I've been studying lots of death related charts in the past few years its become a primary focus.

You're Solar Return Ascendant would most likely not be conjunct chiron if this was your death. It could very likely be relocating, leaving home, or something happening within the home, doesn't have to be painful either, sometimes it's healing that is done. Also Solar Return ascendant is not near the IC in your chart. If you really want to pursue this study. Look at your progressed chart alone, and prog/with natal. Focus should be on the Ruler of your Sun. Progressed ascendant opposing or squaring planets both in the progressed chart and against the natal. Natal nodal degree would be prominent in the progressed chart also. Degrees in the progressed chart would show a theme of some kind, such as several planets or angles all at the same degree, which is when you know something's up or change is on the way.
Sorry to interject, but how about moon? Solar Return moon (in SR 8thH) conjunct natal Chiron (in natal 8th?)
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Unread 10-21-2019, 10:02 AM
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Re: I think I just predicted my own death??!?!!?!

Moon chiron in 8th for the solar return year. That could go a number of ways.
This might have to do with resources, grief of surrounding a female in your life, a partnership ending, some kind of major self transformation, or if there are other indicators - issue with something of a sexual nature or reproductive issues. Usually with an influence like that there is always good and bad associated with a position like that. The 8th house is a blessing when youre in need of change also.
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Unread 06-14-2020, 02:32 AM
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I randomly stumbled on this thread. I would love an updates especially with all the thing痴 that have happened globally in 2020. Hope all is well.
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Unread 08-31-2020, 04:02 AM
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Smile Re: I think I just predicted my own death??!?!!?!

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Originally Posted by Vircanaq88 View Post
I randomly stumbled on this thread. I would love an updates especially with all the thing痴 that have happened globally in 2020. Hope all is well.
I'm alive.
Thanks for checking in.

Still concerned about the chart though but less concerned than I was back then.
From what I understand, the ASC or it's ruler need to be afflicted for a solar return chart to indicate death, and the profections would need to show it too.

But I've been curious about Solar Return indications during the year of death and been searching for articles analyzing the Solar Returns of deceased celebrities and what should I stumble on? But this thread I had wrote, on a forum I've long ago abandoned.
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Unread 08-31-2020, 04:03 AM
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Re: I think I just predicted my own death??!?!!?!

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Originally Posted by sabumnim View Post
When I got into the astrology business back in the 1970's, the glamour boy at that time was this opera star turned astrologer named Noel Tyl.

Tyl was feted like some rock star and I have no idea why, in the same way that I do not completely understand why Donald Trump is popular or even the future President ! My own natal chart is quite weak and not very powerful, but some charts are perhaps better (luckier?) than others ?

Tyl then touted his encyclopedic, 12 volume Principals and Practice of Astrology, with b.s. spin and marketing similar to a New York ad agency ? which included the vastly over rated Solar Return and the equally overrated Lunar Return, complete with diagrams and testimonials and it was peddled to us in the astrology community like swiss cheese.

Meanwhile, HITLER was given a profile in Tyl's Principles series ? What for ? , we know that all of you Capricorns have a little bit of "Nazi" in you, why study Hitler? LOL you might as well study Donald Trump !

Fortunately, I am not sucked in, that easily ?

Companies like Neil Michelsen's Astro Computing Services made a freaking fortune back then, printing out solar returns and lunar returns for the public, at a buck a shot !

But, here's the problem. The Solar Return is bullsh*t and highly over-rated and astrologers like Noel Tyl deceived the public merely to sell their books !

And my own home library has all types of books; Tyl's books, Hand's books, books on the solar return like Alexander Volguine's, and I even took in a live seminar from the late Lois Rodden on Solar Returns, Lunar Returns, and even Mercury Returns !

Well, 40 years later, ask Herr Tyl what he thinks of solar returns and lunar returns, now ! LOL

Tyl disowns them ! Thinks they don't work for him, yet he wrote books about this technique ! But, guess what, his new love, which he touts in his newer books, is solar arcs, which absolutely REEK, FAILS, when it comes to accuracy and relevancy !

I had a personal reading done once by Tyl and the natal reading absolutely s*cked !

So yes, solar and lunar returns are a big fail ! Then, there is the thorny question of which solar return location works best, the one for the birth location, or wherever you happen to be on the date of the solar return !

Thankfully, I won't be lulled into that debate !
Noel Tyl didn't invent Solar Return charts. In fact, their use predates Progressions, I believe.
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Unread 08-31-2020, 04:04 AM
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Re: I think I just predicted my own death??!?!!?!

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Hi

I created a similar thread awhile back where I was interested in figuring out how much "life" my chart has. Before I went about finding the dangerous years, I first set out to find my hyleg and alcocoden. (http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum...ad.php?t=46808). After doing that I investigated particularly "dangerous" years; If you want my personal opinion on just what it takes to predict death you can read this thread: http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum...ad.php?t=93710.

As to what that specific SR might mean you could post it as a separate chart and I'll see what I can find.
Super interesting thread CT!
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