Astrologers' Community  

Go Back   Astrologers' Community > General Astrology > Chinese Astrology

Chinese Astrology 本板块使用英语讨论中国占星术。This forum will hold discussion on Chinese Astrology in English language.


Reply
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #26  
Unread 08-29-2012, 01:48 AM
planet9 planet9 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Permanent traveller
Posts: 87
Re: equivalent of Scorpio to Chinese Zodiac

Quote:
Originally Posted by theM View Post
Sorry,but bogus sounded really unfriendly.
Merriam-Webster defines 'bogus' as 'not genuine'.

Quote:
How should it work if the month pillar is calculated using the chinese lunar calendar?
See The 60-day and 60-month Cycles for an explanation of the element-animal associated with the month in the Chinese lunar calendar.

Quote:
I found even on chinese sites that the Spring begin is 315 degrees of the solar year meaning February 3-5.
The solar term designated J1 is 'lichun' which is translated as 'Start of Spring'. This is the time in the solar year at which the Sun reaches 315° ecliptic longitude. So?

Quote:
On this site- the problem is explained and they assigned it the way I say but your idea is not wrong as there's a system where they use lunar and solar months.

Without this knowledge, above-mentioned,
most people will be confused about the solar months and lunar months.
They may think all Chinese Fortune-Telling system use lunar months. Actually, the Fortune-Telling system called Eight Characters only uses the solar month, not the lunar month. The other popular system called Dipper uses solar month and lunar month together.


Source: http://www.chinesefortunecalendar.com/clc/LunarCalendar.htm
Another source: http://discoveringmandarin.blogspot.de/2010/01/four-pillars-of-destiny-months-and.html
The first source quoted is the site I mentioned in an earlier message. The author of this site is confused as to how the Chinese lunar calendar is constructed. This website contains misinformation.

The second source that you cite does little more than display the table associating animals with pairs of solar terms. I showed in an earlier message that this table is misinformation (false, bogus, unreliable).

Wikipedia contains much misinformation. Some people assume that whatever they read on Wikipedia must be true because it's on Wikipedia, and Wikipedia is an encyclopedia! But Wikipedia's promoting itself as an 'encyclopedia' does not mean that it merits that name, and it does not mean that it is a reliable source of knowledge. And if you are going to cite websites as reliable then I ask: How do you know? You can know only if you do some study of the subject. Sometimes, however, you can trust what is said on a website, but only if the author knows what he is talking about. Wikipedia is rife with the opinions of people who think they know what they are talking about but don't.

For (mostly) reliable information about calendars see the Calendar Wiki.

Reply With Quote
  #27  
Unread 08-29-2012, 11:22 AM
theM theM is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 100
Re: equivalent of Scorpio to Chinese Zodiac

Hi planet9!

Quote:
See The 60-day and 60-month Cycles for an explanation of the element-animal associated with the month in the Chinese lunar calendar.
That's okay for a calendar but for horoscopes like the 4 pillars in this case it's imbalance
because the rule is that if a leap month occur the same month sign just recur.So it's not a very logical system for astrology.
I understand why mostly the solar calendar is used for Astrology.

Quote:
The solar term designated J1 is 'lichun' which is translated as 'Start of Spring'. This is the time in the solar year at which the Sun reaches 315° ecliptic longitude. So?
When I wrote about
the Spring begin being 15 degrees of Aquarius= 315 degrees of the Solar year
and being the beginning of the Tiger month of the solar calendar you wrote about widespread errors and confusions.

Quote:
Merriam-Webster defines 'bogus' as 'not genuine'.
From my view it sounded unfriendly because the whole time you write that things that are common are bogus, widespread misinformation, have no basis.

Actually 210 - 240 degrees of the Solar year belong to the Dog (195-225) and Pig (225-255) segments in the chinese (agricultural) solar calendar.
This section is called "Scorpio" in western astrology.
And that's the only thing I'm writing about the whole time.

There can be a mistake in the leap month-article of www.chinesefortunecalendar.com. But that doesn't change facts.
As in almost every site you will somewhere find a mistake and that's not the point.
Maybe even in your site there's somewhere a little mistake like a single word wrongly spelled by chance.
Would that mean that the content of your whole site is wrong.
-No.So,that's it.
I mean no harm but I just want to make things clear.


Greetings,
theM

Last edited by theM; 08-29-2012 at 11:39 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #28  
Unread 08-29-2012, 11:48 AM
planet9 planet9 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Permanent traveller
Posts: 87
Re: equivalent of Scorpio to Chinese Zodiac

Quote:
Originally Posted by theM View Post
Actually 210 - 240 degrees of the Solar year belong to the Dog (195-225) and Pig (225-255) month in the chinese (agricultural) solar calendar.
There is no "Dog and Pig month" in the Chinese solar calendar. I have tried to explain this to you for quite awhile now. I won't try further, since you will just continue to cite websites which propagate this falsehood.

Of course, anyone can invent some system of 'astrology', using a mix of concepts derived from the Chinese solar and lunar calendars and from Western astrology, and then call it 'Chinese astrology'. Or they can run across someone else's invention (found on some website) and accept the implicit claim that this is 'Chinese astrology'. If you wish to believe that this sort of thing is genuine (not bogus) then of course you're free to do so, and here's wishing you an entertaining time.
Reply With Quote
  #29  
Unread 08-29-2012, 01:25 PM
theM theM is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 100
Re: equivalent of Scorpio to Chinese Zodiac

Hi again planet9!

Quote:
There is no "Dog and Pig month" in the Chinese solar calendar. I have tried to explain this to you for quite awhile now. I won't try further, since you will just continue to cite websites which propagate this falsehood.
Even if there wouldn't be them which I don't think than the assignment is not a bit odd as the solar and lunar month often overlap.
The solar terms give the lunar calendar structure and chinese astrology is obviously easier and clearer using the solar calendar for the month pillar.

Quote:
Originally Posted by planet9 View Post
Of course, anyone can invent some system of 'astrology', using a mix of concepts derived from the Chinese solar and lunar calendars and from Western astrology, and then call it 'Chinese astrology'. Or they can run across someone else's invention (found on some website) and accept the implicit claim that this is 'Chinese astrology'.
Who is anyone in that case? Anyone = various sites and books.
Why can't chinese astrology assign the solar terms to the 12 signs?
What's so odd about that?
It's logical that the solar year and it's 12 segments will play an important role in each Astrology.
If chinese astrology would be only based on the lunar cycle than it would not necessarily have 12 animal signs because there are sometimes 13 lunations in a years therefore there are leap months.
Even in the descriptions of the animal signs you can often read traits that belong to the equivalent western signs like Tiger,
which contains the second half of Aquarius and the first half of Pisces, owns traits of both zodiac signs
or the way around like Pisces owns traits that belong to Tiger and Rabbit.
There is an equivalent for everything in the universe.
That's the law of analogy.

So for me and many others this is not bogus like you said.It's natural.
I really respect and esteem your knowledge about calendars, software etc. but does that automatically mean that you're always correct about the entire chinese astrology?
Please,don't take it personal,but for me the text I posted from chinesefortunecalendar.com,
wikipedia (in this case) and the book of Pamela Leigh Powers sounded more genuine.
Sorry.

Quote:
If you wish to believe that this sort of thing is genuine (not bogus) then of course you're free to do so, and here's wishing you an entertaining time.
The last thing sounds ironical.That's a pity.

Anyway, I'm wishing you all the best,
theM =)

Last edited by theM; 08-29-2012 at 06:59 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #30  
Unread 11-11-2012, 01:55 AM
comdoc comdoc is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 337
Re: equivalent of Scorpio to Chinese Zodiac

There is some confusion regarding "Chinese Astrology". Actually the BaZi system of Four Pillars is based on solar movements. ZWDS or Twelve Palaces system is based on Sundial (solar) Time. Planet9 information that Western (Tropical) Astrology Signs and Chinese Animals are offset by 15 degrees is essentially correct. Winter Solstice in northern hemisphere is the Sagittarius/Capricorn cusp and the center of Rat. However, the traditional Chinese Animals do refer to 12 year cycle...while Western Zodiac refers to 12 equal solar month divisions of the Year cycle.

These Eastern and Western Astrology systems are fractal. That means they resonate with each other. And they describe the similar 12 parts in a year or 12-year cycle. Just offset by about a 2-week period. I'm currently writing a book which shows correspondence between East and West Astrology cycles.

Using the Chinese Animal originally derived from the 12-year cycle to also describe a solar month helps to relate the two systems. Already I've discovered parallel meanings by using both systems in relation to each other.

Best regards,

comdoc
Reply With Quote
  #31  
Unread 11-26-2012, 03:47 AM
Assyrian_Libra Assyrian_Libra is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 100
Re: equivalent of Scorpio to Chinese Zodiac

I always felt like Scorpio is same as Snake since both come off as passionate and romantic and mysterious
Reply With Quote
  #32  
Unread 01-21-2013, 08:12 PM
diamondbaby's Avatar
diamondbaby diamondbaby is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: U.S.A.
Posts: 55
Re: equivalent of Scorpio to Chinese Zodiac

Scorpio = Pig
__________________
Sagittarius Sun - 5th house - Aries/Mars decan of Sagittarius
Leo Moon - 1st house - Leo/Sun decan of Leo
Reply With Quote
  #33  
Unread 05-06-2019, 12:48 AM
Theroaringlion Theroaringlion is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: May 2019
Posts: 1
Quote:
Originally Posted by theM View Post
Hi planet9! =)

In theory you could be right but in practice:
How should it work if the month pillar is calculated using the chinese lunar calendar?
12 month signs but not always 12 months like you said.
Sometimes there’s a leap month.
That would be imbalance.It would be more logical to calculate it after the solar agricultural calendar.
I found even on chinese sites that the Spring begin is 315 degrees of the solar year meaning February 3-5.


On this site- the problem is explained and they assigned it the way I say but your idea is not wrong as there's a system where they use lunar and solar months.

Without this knowledge, above-mentioned,
most people will be confused about the solar months and lunar months.
They may think all Chinese Fortune-Telling system use lunar months. Actually, the Fortune-Telling system called Eight Characters only uses the solar month, not the lunar month. The other popular system called Dipper uses solar month and lunar month together.


Source: http://www.chinesefortunecalendar.com/clc/LunarCalendar.htm
Another source: http://discoveringmandarin.blogspot.de/2010/01/four-pillars-of-destiny-months-and.html


So the equivalent of Scorpio =
first 15 degrees of Scorpio: Dog / second 15 degrees of Scorpio: Pig
has a basis and is not bogus as you said.
Sorry,but bogus sounded really unfriendly.


Greetings,
theM
Id like to say this is an amazing thread, and am largely amazed at how polite everyone is being. That being said, id like to interject some thoughts on the matter, and please forgive my grammar im posting from a tiny smart phone, and i cant be bothered, lol.

So, i too have been researching into this cunundrum, and i have noticed the following... Many of the websites agree through various explanations that say the zodiacal sign of sheep corresponds to 15 degrees cancer, to 15 degrees leo, whether you are using the four pillars methods or the agricultural calender directly, is moot, they all agree when it comes to the months....

The biggest problem is, and ill be the elephant in the room but, the year signs are ACTUALLY based loosely on the position of jupiter in the tropical zodiac, and that takes approximately 11.87 years to complete a cycle, calindrics however admirable your efforts are at tracking dates, are substantially invalid over time, thus intercalary months etc, because they arent actually based on observation,

the big problem your having difficulty coming to terms with is you did all that work, and want to be proud of what you achieved on the calender software, but from an astrological perspective you're still wrong.

Do me a favour, and instead of bickering back and forth about this without any astrological information to verify your claims, pick a chart preferably of a friend or family member, find Jupiter, try both methods, use traditional interpretations using each of the methods discussed, and post the results, ill gladly eat my words, if i am wrong, but for instance, i was born october 12th 1978, and that places me in the horse year, however, correlating jupiter with the agricultural calender, that firmly places me in the sign of sheep/goat, whatever, and i can tell you without a shadow of a doubt i most strongly resemble a person with the attributes of the goat sign, and not at all the horse sign, but dont take my word for it, do the research, and post what you found easily solved, instead of bickering about who did more work, bad work does not equate to accuracy, just do it.

Ps its called astrology for a reason... If you want to argue about calenders please find a calender reform page to bicker on about calenders
Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
chinese, equivalent, scorpio, zodiac

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Past relationships: What signs did you date? Astrocurious Relational Astrology 119 06-15-2013 01:42 AM
Chinese astrology "Tutorial" Ace Other Astrology 21 07-10-2011 12:23 AM
Any thoughts on these planetary relationships in going forward in a relationship rosedl Read My Chart 3 05-01-2011 11:13 PM
Questions about the Chinese Calendar Mark Chinese Astrology 9 04-28-2011 10:06 AM
Franz Bardons 360 heads of the zone girding the earth, oft compared to sabian smbls tsquare Degree Symbols 1 04-09-2008 10:47 AM



All times are GMT. The time now is 06:59 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.2
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright © 2005-2018, AstrologyWeekly.com. Boards' structure and all posts are property of AstrologyWeekly.com and their respective creators. No part of the messages sent on these boards may be copied without their owners' explicit consent.