Chiron in the 12th house.

SunW

Well-known member
The 12th house shows the events that happened when the native was in his or her mother's womb. It shows what happened to the mother when she was pregnant with the native.


I want to ask the people born with Chiron in the 12th house what happened to their mother when she was pregnant with them.
 

Star Light

Active member
I have Chiron in my 12th house (Placidus - I presume we're talking Placidus here), and my 12th is a very long house (not sure if it's the right expression), ranging almost through two signs and Chiron is sort of in the middle of it.

I was born later than my due date, I think about 2 weeks later, contractions were induced, but I was born with umbilica cord wrapped twice around my neck, and I guess that's about it.

I just spoke with my mother and she said she had no problems during the pregnancy, no nausea, nothing, aside from me and later my sibling too coming out late with no natural contractions. I was an unplanned child, and it is possible that my mother and father fought a bit during her pregnancy. They later got divorced.
 

Zora

Account Closed
The 12th house shows the events that happened when the native was in his or her mother's womb. It shows what happened to the mother when she was pregnant with the native.

I want to ask the people born with Chiron in the 12th house what happened to their mother when she was pregnant with them.


Chiron is not an active planet energy and chiron alone - does nothing. In 12th - just showing - a wound and a (self) -healing potential one has to discover- what can have been caused by outer circumstances. Aspects of planets and sign quality will show - what happened.



Having effected mother during her pregnancy - ruler of 4th house has to be connected with chiron and aspecting chiron. If ruler of 5th house - for me house of father - is envolved, it is more about own father. If 3rd house ruler - siblings - is envolved it might be about own siblings.


Connected with ruler of 11th house and 6th house a medical diagnose in hospital- during pregnancy might have been witnessed as a shock of own mother and afterwards stored in own subconsciousness.
 

waybread

Well-known member
SunW. this interpretation of 12th house planets was popularized by Dutch astrologer Karen Hamaker-Zondag.

I'm not sure it's always correct.

For one thing, the 12th house has additional meanings, so it's not clear how you'd determine what 12th house placement describes Mum's pregnancy & childbirth, and which one/s show someone who is altruistic, reclusive, or simply clueless about that planet's meaning in her/his life.

If Chiron conjuncts the ascendant from the 12th, I'd see this as a "It hurts to be you" aspect.
 

CapAquaPis

Well-known member
I have Juno (14' Cancer in 12th) conjunct ASC (17' 33" Cancer)...an asteroid representing the mother anyway, but I knew my Mom befriended my half-sis' Mom and when my half-sis was 9 when I was born in 1980, she named me Michael after herself (Michele) ... and the POF in 12th is also conjunct ASC when the Aquarius sun and moon (solar eclipse the next day) were conjunct in the 8th.
 

CapAquaPis

Well-known member
Chiron is a malefic in astrology, therefore in the 12th indicates their mother's pregnancy experiences could be terrible or horrible. What about Pluto? I've read my bro's natal chart has Pluto in 12th (in Libra while his ASC is in Scorpio). He too and my nephew's 12th...and my recently passed Mom have the presence of...Juno in their 12th. :andy: And my Dad only had Eris in his Aries-ruled 12th. Pluto and Eris should have similarities to Chiron, but Pluto is a lot more malefic.
 

CapAquaPis

Well-known member
And my own half-sis has a Leo ASC, but there weren't any planets (esp Chiron) in her 12th, but there's a "Node" in her 26' Leo conjunct 29' in ASC - her "True Node" is in 26' Aquarius, and nodes have astrological value in our natal charts.
 

CapAquaPis

Well-known member
Is there a house in the natal chart a woman uses to determine how her own pregnancy/birthing experience will be like, is it the 12th, maybe the 4th or 8th?

Edit: According to my search results, something in regard to the 6th and 7th houses, opposite 12th and 1st, the descendant opposes the ascendant.

Which planet is responsible for pregnancy?
Either Mercury or Saturn occupying the 7th makes a woman barren or who marries a person who is impotent, or is herself diseased. If the Moon aspected by Jupiter is in an upachayasthana from the Janam-rasi of man or if a friendly benefic or Venus aspects, he can get a woman become pregnant.


Would a Chiron placement in 6th, the house of illness ruled by Virgo, be an issue in a woman's pregnancy (whether current or future)?

And on a biological male's chart, would his wife/girlfriend/partner/spouse/significant other will have a healthy or unhealthy pregnancy?
 
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CapAquaPis

Well-known member
5th House: This House is mainly considered for child birth and pregnancy. ... It is interesting to know that some of the signs in the 5th house are considered as “Fertile Signs”, some as “Infertile Signs” and some as “Indecisive Signs” as far as pregnancy and childbirth are concerned.

Planets in the 5th house determines conception, the pregnancy experience and any issues in childbirth: 1. Jupiter, 2. Moon, 3. Venus, 4. Chiron, and 5. Juno. Also the planets in 5th to influence are Uranus, Neptune, Saturn, Mars and Pluto. We know the Moon, Chiron, Juno and nowadays Pluto aren't astronomical planets, but these planetary bodies hold significance in horoscopes and natal charts.

It comes down to this: 11th/12th houses related to conception, pregnancy and maternal health before our births. And the 1st house past Ascendant is our own infancy. And to predict pregnancy or how it'll go: 5th and 6th. And the woman's outcome of labor or birthing is the 7th.
 

Cosmic Program

Active member
M
The 12th house shows the events that happened when the native was in his or her mother's womb. It shows what happened to the mother when she was pregnant with the native.


I want to ask the people born with Chiron in the 12th house what happened to their mother when she was pregnant with them.
My son has Chiron in 12th. My entire pregnancy was a mess ( unplanned, shot gone wedding , contraception failed, cried everyday, hated becoming wife or a mother) , labour even worse, 57 hour labour, I died, had NDE, had septic shock, returned, my son died too, they revived him, he had already defecated in womb which almost killed me. Guess what? His Moon is in 8th in scorpio and by the time he was 1 day old, he had already killed me.
 

waybread

Well-known member
How is your relationship with your son now? Did you tell him you think he "killed you"? Did you tell him you hated becoming a mother? o_O

Dutch astrologer Karen Hamaker-Zondag, in her book on the 12th house, does associate 12th house planets with the mother's experience of labor and delivery. I think it's because the ascendant indicates the direction East, where degrees, the sun, and planets rise.
 

Cosmic Program

Active member
How is your relationship with your son now? Did you tell him you think he "killed you"? Did you tell him you hated becoming a mother? o_O

Dutch astrologer Karen Hamaker-Zondag, in her book on the 12th house, does associate 12th house planets with the mother's experience of labor and delivery. I think it's because the ascendant indicates the direction East, where degrees, the sun, and planets rise.
My son is raised to be tough as I was, he knows most of it ( expect the part about going for abortion, which I changed my mind after my mom went nuts over it, had a change of heart, won’t ever tell him that). We are great, he’s definitely daddy’s boy, but I raised him that way, and we have no issues because he’s very much the centre of our world. He’s also very very very sweet, to be honest, was a perfect baby, toddler, child etc. I haven’t had any issues with him but then we never went for modern upbringing stuff. He comes to me for all his psychological questions. Or questions about life and death etc

Yes 12th is the house of pregnancy up until delivery process. I researched this during my astrology test on random people, it does have serious validity. My son has Chiron fused w Neptune and Jupiter in 12th so perhaps he hasn’t felt so much of the pain, he surely doesn’t show it, physically or mentally, but he was beaten up at birth. Due to labour, he looked like he had been inside washing machine, I wasn’t sure if that’s a human or alien. So far, he’s really ok and he’s now almost 14.
 

waybread

Well-known member
It would be interesting to learn your son's perspective, Cosmic Program. Howbeit you show him your posts here?

Better yet, don't. Knowing that he was unwanted and you think his delivery almost killed you might change your dynamic with him.

Since you expressed unhappiness in your marriage, I'm not sure why you raised him to be a "daddy's boy."

Staying with Chiron's wounds should give one wisdom and compassion.

How's that working out for you?
 

Cosmic Program

Active member
I am very old school re much in life and believe all kids must have their sun snd moon archtype developed through parents that identify strongly with these archtypes, pretty much how human society has always been re role playings. When I had my son, I knew nothing about astrology. In fact, I started getting into astrology accidentally due to my horrific Pluto transits. And also the NDE I had during that labour most likely changed my brain wiring, research shows all NDE cases become radically spiritual. I was an ACTIVE Athiest, not just a typical Athiest, I used to arrange Dawkins and Krauss visits to my university, I was high ranking in a local chapter Athiest club etc.

After my NDE and slowly after the worst year of my : 2013 followed by the horrific 2018- today time cycle ( Pluto hammered me, it’s not over, since now it’s opposing my ASC…. It’ll give me a break in 2027 probably) I got into astrology bc I couldn’t logically figure out why I was facing so many issues, why so many psychos were entering my life, why people that owed me so much favour overnight turned on me etc etc
So astrology helped me understand what was happening. W virgo stellium, and moon Pluto, I NEED to know things logically and assess them in a tangible scientific way so that I can cope and move on.

My son is a daddy’s boy bc he has sun and Venus on MC. Fused w MC. That’s why. He was born worshiping his dad. And he worships his son. It’s creepy how much they love each other at times. But I have a psychological power over my son. His scorpionic moon is channeled through my obsession w occult and astrology and horror movies, my son HATES astrology, but he’s also fascinated by it. He comes to me at times asking whether his chart is ok, but 90% of the time he just mocks astrology and I ignore his mockery. Chiron in 12th is about his fear of astrology and paranormal. He is scared of it. But he’s also fascinated by it. My husband is now more into astrology though he was mocking it up until recently. He’s now becoming less skeptical. But that’s expected. He’s a PhD scientist, I’m surrounded by people who mock astrology and mock me. My entire family of doctors mock me. All my siblings, all 6 of them, mock me. They wonder if I need to get psychiatric help but my husband told them I’m saner than anyone he knows. And they all know it. My son’s lunar pain is witnessing how much I’m unhappy in this nation which isn’t my birth place, it’s my husband’s, how alone I am here, not just in terms of friends and family, also fans, how much my own family and others mock his mother, how much I never wanted this ( I had a top job offer to move to Singapore and my contraception failed, he knows the amount of sacrifice I’ve made). I haven’t lived for anyone other than him since he’s born, but it’s not anyone’s problem. It’s my problem. My own decision. And I’m old school about it, I don’t moan, I get on w life and I believe in “ actions have consequences”. Sometimes, we have to make lemonade from lemons and sacrifice. Now, next year, when Pluto is opposing me w 0 deg orb, that’s when it’s time for me to leave and live for me. And I’m sure my son will have a hard time accepting that, but he’s also old enough then, and he knows how much more tragedies I personally had to deal with when I was much younger. I talked to him about my life, childhood, war, horrific stuff, when he was as young as 4. He is raised to be very global, very aware, and very tough. So he will have to get used to my departure. I don’t want to take him back to America bc America, from what I hear, isn’t the place you want to move to these days. But I miss home. I’ve had it.
 

StarchaserNancy

Well-known member
In the book " Chiron", Martin Lass, says that Chiron in the 12th "plays out against the backdrop of our inner life, the consciousness, the psyche, spiritual longings and mysticism." It can be played out in an "institutional setting concerned w/ the welfare of the mind, body and spirit." And, people tend to "hide away the wound, clinging to it as a kind of paradoxical solace."
 

waybread

Well-known member
Cosmic Program,I think it's one thing to be "old school," and other thing to write what you did about your son. It would be good to see your unconditional love for him showing through more clearly.

Astrology isn't some kind of religion. It doesn't demand a loyalty oath. Astrological predictions often fail. Many published astrologers are not terribly rational people. I couldn't blame anyone for "mocking" astrology, although I would want to know how well they actually understood it.

Staying with Chiron's hurts should generate wisdom and compassion. I hope that is going well for you.
 
I have both Moon and Chiron in 12H and indeed my mom had an extremely traumatic birthing experience. It was a long process and had to have an emergency c-section. Then she had complications with the epidural where it hit a nerve in her spine making the left side of her body temporarily in pain and immobile. She was not able to see me till days after the birth which has led me with deep anxious attachment wounds. It’s been a journey. I would say Chiron in 12H signifying a traumatic birth is accurate from my experience.
 

waybread

Well-known member
Chiron rules wounds that don't heal; but where, if we stay open to them, we can gain in wisdom and compassion.

I hope you and your mother are finding the wisdom and compassion out of your Chiron wounds.
 
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