placement

Lately i've come across a chart where the quesited's significator was placed in it's exaltation sign. 5th house
I understood that as the person is strong, stable.
probb. specificly "strong" in enjoying things according to 5th house.

Then another quesited's significator happened to be in exaltation in 1st house, - so i was reading this as if the strength of exaltation comes from the "nearness" to the querent.

Can one see it in general like that?
Is only 1st (or 7th) house placement deeply influenced by the other person, and every other house placement means influence by the house's matters?

Id be grateful for more insight here!

a) With house placement:

As you mention house position can indeed indicate additional details for the chart, I agree.

However this is usually for when we need to extract more details from the chart. Sometimes they might be irrelevant.

For example if we were asking a Job (10th house) question, and we would find its significator in the 5th, it may not mean it is related to 5th house activities.

But in general, yes, the house holds some significance to what the chart is trying to tell us. In some charts it holds greater significance, in others not so much.

b) With exaltation:

Here there is problem, given that NO planet can be in exaltation in the sign of its opposite (meaning the 1st house ruler can never be in exaltation of the 7th house ruler).

So this means that if a planet is inside the opposite's house, in its own exaltaton, it means its not in the sign of the other person. So he may be in the 2nd or 3 sign within that house (depending on intercepted signs).

So while the presence of the planet indicates an interest in the house (because he is there), its a different kind of interest given that it is not placed in the sign of the other planet.

Thank you Dirius! I read and try to understand.
Not too easy. It's like the fine tuning process...

I saw today a chart where the quesiteds significator is in its detriment (in the 5th), ruled by the querent's sign.
Now, this is again a good example for what i try to understand.
On one hand i can see, it's detriment, so shows weakness.
But as well shows the quesited is in the querent's sign. Which means is "at his side" --- right?
That is confusing somehow.
What weighs more? Or better, is the weakness now to read as caused by the technical fact of detriment, or by the "fact" that the quesited is "close" to the querent???

Dirius said:

a)


So this means that if a planet is inside the opposite's house, in its own exaltaton, it means its not in the sign of the other person. So he may be in the 2nd or 3 sign within that house (depending on intercepted signs).

So while the presence of the planet indicates an interest in the house (because he is there), its a different kind of interest given that it is not placed in the sign of the other planet.

Click to expand...

Yes, right, it has been a large 1st house, so intercepted sign, yes.
And of course, you are right, that makes a difference.
What is more important in your opinion: the house placement or the sign placement?

When a planet is in detriment, it means its weak to the influence of the ruler of the sign. You shouldn't exactly take it as "he/she is doing bad".

If you love someone, it means you are weak to that person's influence.
"You can only love someone by giving up your heart"

According to Frawley (and I mention this because he gives a difference):

a) If the planet of the quesited or querent is in the exact opposite house (the 1st ruler inside the 7th sign, or 7th ruler inside the 1st sign), the detriment should be disregarded because the person is naturally in love, and thus weak to the other person's influence.

b) If the planet of the quesited or querent is in the sign of the other, but not in the sign of the first house but rather in the other sign controlled by this planet, it means that the planet isn't doing well and the detriment should be taken into consideration.

Example: 1st house Aries (ruled by Mars) and 7th house Libra (ruled by Venus). You find Venus in Scorpio (the sign of Mars, but not the 1st house).

I personally do not give much thought to this assertion by Frawley. However, I do understand his logic. Inside the house of the other implies the person is connected to the other's life (representd by being in angular position), while in the sign of the other its more of a distant placement, and thus could be taken this way.

This comes to a matter of personal technique when applying this concept, through personal practice.

Dirius said:

When a planet is in detriment, it means its weak to the influence of the ruler of the sign. You shouldn't exactly take it as "he/she is doing bad".

If you love someone, it means you are weak to that person's influence.
"You can only love someone by giving up your heart"

According to Frawley (and I mention this because he gives a difference):

a) If the planet of the quesited or querent is in the exact opposite house (the 1st ruler inside the 7th sign, or 7th ruler inside the 1st sign), the detriment should be disregarded because the person is naturally in love, and thus weak to the other person's influence.

b) If the planet of the quesited or querent is in the sign of the other, but not in the sign of the first house but rather in the other sign controlled by this planet, it means that the planet isn't doing well and the detriment should be taken into consideration.

Example: 1st house Aries (ruled by Mars) and 7th house Libra (ruled by Venus). You find Venus in Scorpio (the sign of Mars, but not the 1st house).

I personally do not give much thought to this assertion by Frawley. However, I do understand his logic. Inside the house of the other implies the person is connected to the other's life (representd by being in angular position), while in the sign of the other its more of a distant placement, and thus could be taken this way.

This comes to a matter of personal technique when applying this concept, through personal practice.

Click to expand...

Ah, this is very good to read and to understand!
The chart i saw today was about a personal question about a sexual obsession, as far as i would take it. and the quesited's sign. happened to be in the 5th, in the querent's sign, in detriment.
I found that confusing, but it makes more sense with what you say and refer to what Frawley says.
Very enlightening! Thanks a lot!

So in this case the quesited would not be "weak", but still sort of reachable, sort of still under the influence of the joy that the ex partner (the querent) had brought. of course, since they separated he would feel weak with this "addiction", but it wouldn't mean he is in a bad state.

Right? It is hard to judge these things, i find. Needs a lot of experience.
Thank you!!

Depends on the chart also. If the question is for example:

"Will my ex-husband continue to misstreat me?" or something of the sort.

Then the very nature of the question implies that the detriment might have something to do with it (planets in detriment don't behave well in general). So it is very subjective.

Some charts are about love, but others are about a relationship and its problems. This is the hard part, understanding what the chart is telling you, regarding the question.

In that example you imply something about a "sexual obsession" ?

Would be easier if you post the chart

I think it wouldn't be "correct" to post the chart here. I saw it on
skyscript today. Question had been "does he miss me sexually" or so...
I understood it's about a couple that shared great sex, but not much more. Then separated, moved on, but still feels longing for this particular tie, miss the passion.
I think it's not so rare, and i found it interesting that placement and dignities somehow seemed to show the missing is on both sides.

but then i got confused with the 5th house and the detriment....

and somehow even with this question, the detriment could be showing that it is somehow humiliating to experience that you try to get away from each other, but can't. - Would you go with this understanding?

Maybe the chart is simply showing you both things at the same time:

The planet in the sign of the querent or quesited implies his feelings for him/her.

The 5th house is the traditional house of sexual intercourse (this is why it is the house of conception). With the signifier placed in that house it is just reinforcing that the nature of the question, while a 7th house matter, is positioned towards the subject of the 5th house: sex.

So it wouldn't be unlikely that the planet of the querent or quesited showed interest in the 7th/5th or the natural ruler of the other (Venus/Sun).

The key is understanding what the querent really wants to get out of the chart.

Is this a typical relationship question? Yes. However for the querent it may be really important to know about how the other person found him/her sexually. Thus its sort of a "3 house" thing.

Its like asking:"Is my wife interested in my money?"

In that example the chart is a 1st house / 7th house / 2nd house / 8th house matter. Because it involves not only querent and quesited, but also both of their money house.

Similar question:"Will my wife take my dog in the divorce?"

Its a 1st house / 7th house / 6th house chart.

Another: "Will my boss pay my salary this month?"

Its a 1st house / 10th house / 11th house / 2nd house chart.

----

In all those cases it would be expected to find house placements and receptions that not only relate to the main houses asked about, but also to the other secondary houses that are part of the question.

Yes, makes absolutely sense.
So in a way this question was answered with a "yes". He is still missing her sexually. as far as dignities and placement show.

Actually, i thought so when i saw the 5th house involved, so that didn't surprise me. - Just the "detriment thing" confused me. But, thinking clearer about it, of course, if you still feel drawn towards someone you separated from, you must feel "weak". So detriment makes sense as well.

Would you know a good source for "house meanings"?
2nd, 6th, 8th confuse me still pretty often...

oleanna said:

Yes, makes absolutely sense.
So in a way this question was answered with a "yes". He is still missing her sexually. as far as dignities and placement show.

Actually, i thought so when i saw the 5th house involved, so that didn't surprise me. - Just the "detriment thing" confused me. But, thinking clearer about it, of course, if you still feel drawn towards someone you separated from, you must feel "weak". So detriment makes sense as well.

Would you know a good source for "house meanings"?
2nd, 6th, 8th confuse me still pretty often...

Click to expand...

In Christian Astrology is every house meaning William Lilly gave to the houses, which is the basis for most western traditional horary.

Probably in the first chapters of the 1st book.

If not "Introduction to Horary" from Zadquiel, which is actually a commentary about William Lilly's horary methods (and is pretty much a short version of CA book 2).

If not, Frawley also gives the same meanings that Lilly did on his books.

If not...well pretty much every traditional author gives the same meanings, so you can probably find them in any book

hm, makes me look stupid, i fear, but i read parts of CA, specially the chapter about the houses, and still, f.e. when it comes to 6th house i have difficulties to read it in a more modern, contemporary way, so that i could understand what a 6th house means other than just sort of a weak place...
most mentioned things seemed to me a bit out of time.
Maybe i should have a look at Frawleys work. I never did that. Just got here and there a bite of it...

stick with Lilly

Try here: http://www.skyscript.co.uk/temples/h6.html

You can click back and forth at the bottom of the page to look at the other house meanings

Oddity said:

Try here: http://www.skyscript.co.uk/temples/h6.html

You can click back and forth at the bottom of the page to look at the other house meanings

Click to expand...

thanks a lot! i'll try that! --- I sometimes think the understanding just comes by time and experience - and i still search for the one source that has all explanations right by hand....

tikana said:

stick with Lilly

Click to expand...

hm, - may i ask why?? Hard to just follow your rule without knowing the reason.
Is Frawley sor tof "misleading" - that's what a friend of mine said.

cause Lilly makes sense?~

"Lilly himself explains that he was influenced among others by Ptolemy's Quadripartitum (Tetrabiblos), De occulta philosophia by Agrippa, De Astronima Tractarus 10 by Guido Bonatti, 120 Aphorismi of John Dee, Medicina Catholica by Robert Fludd, Epitomes Astronomiae by Johan Kepler and Paracelsus' De Meteoris, all of which are mentioned in the appendix of Christian Astrology."
wikipedia
Ptolemy alone was around 100 – c. 170

Frawley's receptions are ******* up

Thank you for explaining!

At the end it's probably that you over time experienced him as the one who's "right" or you can "trust".

I will read and hope to find such clear preferences.

oleanna said:

hm, - may i ask why?? Hard to just follow your rule without knowing the reason.
Is Frawley sor tof "misleading" - that's what a friend of mine said.

Click to expand...

Not exactly.

He has different views on how to apply certain things. But this is true for almost every astrologer in history.

The main thing is about receptions, and how they apply.

But actually Frawley doesn't disagree with Lilly on receptions, given that Lilly never explains them on how he uses them. He just mentions them, and in few cases I may add.

In fact, some of Lilly's implications on receptions can be taken to be in agreement with the method Frawley uses for receptions.

The truth is that what Frawley explains of receptions is in disagreements with previous authors, but not exactly with Lilly.

Thanks for deeper understanding!
I am a teacher myself, and deeply believe in "reception" between student and teacher. That's why i think one has to search for the teacher that opens one's eyes and/or ears to an own, deep understanding of the subject. - and a good teacher supports even differences in understanding, - that's why i think it shouldn't be a competition between those "schools" in astrology, - but a wide field, where we all can walk and pick. and here and there find a corn
--
Thanks to you all who are walking there for so much longer and surely
are beyond that state.