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  #1  
Unread 09-03-2018, 04:14 PM
AstroAssist AstroAssist is offline
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Competitive spirit, resilience and makings of a winner in a natal chart.

I've been doing way too many readings on this and wanted to learn some more. Unfortunately with all the garbage out there with modern astrology (My Christian Psychic lol!), it is tough to get any quality out there without a overly biased modern astrologer worshiping the most overrated sign there is, Scorpio.

So I have been trying to get an idea of what makes for a competitive spirit, resilience and a champion based on natal charts. Looked at natal charts of championship winning athletes, fighters, politicians that come out on top through charming the masses and guys that seem to winning big at life on the outside at least (money, power, etc.).

I find that Cancers are actually very well represented among fighters in the MMA and in boxing you get a lot of Capricorns that win big. Mayweather is a Pisces so for all the hate the sign gets, I think it is actually quite formidable.

Any other things that point to a person being the champion that comes out on top in competitive situations?

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  #2  
Unread 09-03-2018, 05:21 PM
ElenaJ ElenaJ is offline
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Re: Competitive spirit, resilience and makings of a winner in a natal chart.

You're putting a lot of weight on the sun sign, but I think the planet aspects count a lot in this.
Ps. I'm a scorpio, modestly speaking!
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  #3  
Unread 09-03-2018, 06:42 PM
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Osamenor Osamenor is offline
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Re: Competitive spirit, resilience and makings of a winner in a natal chart.

Look to their Mars. What house is it in? What aspects is it involved in? If it's in Aries, Scorpio, or Capricorn, that gives it an edge, but not as much of one as being angular or in aspect to the sun, moon, or many planets. Even a Mars in one of its detriment/fall signs--Taurus, Cancer, or Libra--can be very powerful if it's otherwise well placed. Muhammed Ali, best known as a great boxer and activist, had Mars in Taurus, but plenty going on to make it a powerful Mars.

Sun sign is irrelevant here. It might tell you something about what would make the native most resilient, but in and of itself, it doesn't tell us how resilient or competitive the native is.
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Unread 09-03-2018, 11:05 PM
Frisiangal Frisiangal is offline
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Re: Competitive spirit, resilience and makings of a winner in a natal chart.

Quote:
Look to their Mars. What house is it in? What aspects is it involved in? If it's in Aries, .. or Capricorn, that gives it an edge
My thoughts also.
Scorpio would seem more ruthless than resilient?
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  #5  
Unread 09-03-2018, 11:27 PM
AstroAssist AstroAssist is offline
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Re: Competitive spirit, resilience and makings of a winner in a natal chart.

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Originally Posted by Osamenor View Post
Look to their Mars. What house is it in? What aspects is it involved in? If it's in Aries, Scorpio, or Capricorn, that gives it an edge, but not as much of one as being angular or in aspect to the sun, moon, or many planets. Even a Mars in one of its detriment/fall signs--Taurus, Cancer, or Libra--can be very powerful if it's otherwise well placed. Muhammed Ali, best known as a great boxer and activist, had Mars in Taurus, but plenty going on to make it a powerful Mars.

Sun sign is irrelevant here. It might tell you something about what would make the native most resilient, but in and of itself, it doesn't tell us how resilient or competitive the native is.
Still thinking Mars in Scorpio is highly overrated and not even top 3 mars, arguably a Mars in Leo is on the same level but hey, Scorpio worship is quite intense these days.

My Mars is in House 10 and not sure about it being angular though you did tell me it is my highest planet or most elevated one.

Mars is also in Gemini so that is kind of in the middle but I do think while Aries and Capricorn are ideal Mars placement, a Gemini Mars is on the same level as the highly overrated Scorpio Mars.
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  #6  
Unread 09-04-2018, 12:39 AM
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Re: Competitive spirit, resilience and makings of a winner in a natal chart.

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Originally Posted by AstroAssist View Post
My Mars is in House 10 and not sure about it being angular though you did tell me it is my highest planet or most elevated one.
10 is an angular house. So yes, your Mars is angular.

If you want to explore astrology, you're best off learning some basic definitions--like which houses are angular, succedent, or cadent.

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Originally Posted by AstroAssist View Post
Mars is also in Gemini so that is kind of in the middle but I do think while Aries and Capricorn are ideal Mars placement, a Gemini Mars is on the same level as the highly overrated Scorpio Mars.
Mars in Gemini is what they call peregrine--neither exalted nor detrimented. It has plenty of room to act like Mars when it's in Gemini. All a sign like Scorpio or Aries would do that Gemini doesn't is make it an especially Marsy Mars. Kind of like adding a fourth kind of cheese to a three cheese lasagna--it's already a cheesy lasagna, and it already gets the job of being lasagna done, but adding more makes it cheesier. Your Mars is like the three cheese lasagna, and being in H10 and the most elevated planet makes it prominent in your chart--kind of like that three cheese lasagna is the chef's signature dish.

Meanwhile, Chef Mars in Scorpio might be making four cheese lasagna, but if that Mars in Scorpio is tucked away in a more obscure house, it's probably not his signature dish.

But at the end of the day, the relevant question is what you do with the chart you have. How do you use that elevated Mars?

Last edited by Osamenor; 09-04-2018 at 03:24 AM. Reason: typo
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  #7  
Unread 09-04-2018, 03:06 AM
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Re: Competitive spirit, resilience and makings of a winner in a natal chart.

Apparently a Mars in Gemini is more of an expert at words yet they say it is "unfocused". Then again this is from the same lunatics that worship Scorpio as being the strongest Mars which is a total joke. I do wonder what my Mars is capable of, apparently I would make for a great lawyer or anything that has to do with words, maybe a harsh critic?

The redeeming thing here is that apparently Mike Tyson, the Roman Empire and the United States had a Mars in Gemini so there must be some redeeming features of having Mars in an air sign.
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  #8  
Unread 09-04-2018, 03:34 AM
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Re: Competitive spirit, resilience and makings of a winner in a natal chart.

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Apparently a Mars in Gemini is more of an expert at words yet they say it is "unfocused". Then again this is from the same lunatics that worship Scorpio as being the strongest Mars which is a total joke. I do wonder what my Mars is capable of, apparently I would make for a great lawyer or anything that has to do with words, maybe a harsh critic?
You know yourself better than any astrologer does. Based on what you know of yourself, what do you do when you're angry or feel threatened? How do you fight back?

With words? With fists? Something else?

FYI, I have Mars in Gemini too. I could tell you how I see it working for me, but the important thing is how it works for you. We probably have some similar themes, but it wouldn't necessarily be manifesting the exact same way.
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  #9  
Unread 09-05-2018, 01:35 AM
AstroAssist AstroAssist is offline
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Re: Competitive spirit, resilience and makings of a winner in a natal chart.

Most of the times I try to stand my ground and be more defensive against the person, giving them a stare or trying to defend myself. There are times when I fantasize a great deal about the person being tortured, at times even months after the offense has happened and then do some research on the person to see who I am really getting into it with.

Is the person trained? Is the person socially well connected?

I always avoid them and blatantly ignore them if I run into them again unless they apologize, then I slowly start to forgive but I never really forget. I do ice people out that I feel have treated me poorly, often blocking them on all online networks that I can and if possible, gossiping about them as soon as the opportunity presents itself.

To be honest with you though, I have avoided fights most of my life and have not really been pushed to that limit which is why I want to know what my worst side is capable of.

Ideally, I'd like to be the guy who can ruin a wicked person's life in a creative way but within legal means. By this I mean getting some dirt on them and then exposing it to the public until the reputation and image is in the garbage can or coming up with some sort of scheme where they are getting their just desserts. I hate it when scumbags get ahead and don't pay the price for the evil they have committed.

A lot of time is spent thinking how I can teach this person a lesson without getting myself into legal trouble, what kind of a scheme I can come up with where justice is served.
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Unread 09-05-2018, 02:59 AM
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Re: Competitive spirit, resilience and makings of a winner in a natal chart.

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Originally Posted by AstroAssist View Post
Most of the times I try to stand my ground and be more defensive against the person, giving them a stare or trying to defend myself. There are times when I fantasize a great deal about the person being tortured, at times even months after the offense has happened and then do some research on the person to see who I am really getting into it with.

Is the person trained? Is the person socially well connected?

I always avoid them and blatantly ignore them if I run into them again unless they apologize, then I slowly start to forgive but I never really forget. I do ice people out that I feel have treated me poorly, often blocking them on all online networks that I can and if possible, gossiping about them as soon as the opportunity presents itself.
Mars in Gemini fights verbally. If you gossip about people you feel have treated you poorly, that's a Gemini way of fighting. If you ice people out and refuse to speak to them, that's also Gemini: you're punishing them by withdrawing your words.

Your Mars is also sextile your Mercury, if you use a wide orb. It has some help from the ruler of its sign. Mercury is not only words, it's also thoughts and perceptions and details. If you're paying attention to details and making plans (whether you carry them out or not), and thinking about revenge and posting about it in forums... that's also quite Gemini and Mercurial.

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Originally Posted by AstroAssist View Post
To be honest with you though, I have avoided fights most of my life and have not really been pushed to that limit which is why I want to know what my worst side is capable of.

Ideally, I'd like to be the guy who can ruin a wicked person's life in a creative way but within legal means. By this I mean getting some dirt on them and then exposing it to the public until the reputation and image is in the garbage can or coming up with some sort of scheme where they are getting their just desserts. I hate it when scumbags get ahead and don't pay the price for the evil they have committed.

A lot of time is spent thinking how I can teach this person a lesson without getting myself into legal trouble, what kind of a scheme I can come up with where justice is served.
If you can imagine doing it, you're capable of it. But capable of it doesn't necessarily mean you'll do it. Maybe you'll decide it's not such a good idea after all, once you've considered all the pertinent details. Maybe getting the kind of dirt on someone that would completely ruin their reputation turns out not to be realistic--or not realistic for you to spread without serious consequences for yourself. Maybe, depending on how strong a sense of conscience you have, you would feel so guilty if you actually did what you contemplated that it's not worth it. That wouldn't mean you're not capable of doing it, just that you have stronger reasons not to.

I think for those of us with Gemini Mars (at lease some Gemini Mars folks) thinking about and talking about and imagining revenge on people who've made us angry is often the way we work out anger. If that's so for you, then it may not ever be necessary for you to actually carry out any of your revenge schemes--because the emotional need they would meet for you if you carried them out is fulfilled by just coming up with them (and not carrying them out also means you don't have any unintended consequences to deal with). Coming up with the revenge scheme is, in and of itself, the process that relieves the hurt.

And if you do... well, I'm Gemini Mars myself. I once (when I was young, just a little younger than you are now) played a quite nasty prank on a friend who had deliberately hurt my feelings. He figured it out before anyone could really get hurt (fortunately), and then... he came over to apologize for the nasty things he'd said to me. It had sunk in for him just how angry I was. Once he apologized, though, I wasn't angry at all anymore.

But I don't think that Gemini Mars is all that's driving you in matters of revenge. That you hold on to anger for so long, seems very Plutonian to me. Mars in Gemini, all by itself, woudn't do that. Gemini is an impulsive sign: feelings processed through Gemini come and go easily. But Scorpio/Pluto feels deeply, holds onto things, and doesn't let go. And won't be satisfied by an act of revenge, even if you think it would.
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  #11  
Unread 09-05-2018, 03:37 AM
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Re: Competitive spirit, resilience and makings of a winner in a natal chart.

Now that is where we separate, I don't let go and I do hold grudges for a very long time. I would not have any guilt or remorse in delivering vengeance that I think is well-deserved. The one thing that holds me back is when I consider the situation and look at the time I would have to invest to get even as well as the drawbacks on my end. Then again, I am slower to anger and I don't think anyone has really got on that side of me yet. If someone really did, then I sometimes don't how I would react but I know for a fact that remorse, guilt and those things do not apply.

I do think that if it came to that point where someone has hurt my loved one or caused serious damage to me, I would eventually get around to getting even with them to the point that they cannot recover as easily. At times I don't know how I would act if I was really pissed off and angry.

Speaking of the most overrated zodiac sign there is, how would a Scorpio Mars supposedly react to an offense?

I know these clowns hold grudges but what are ways they would act?
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  #12  
Unread 09-05-2018, 03:39 AM
Somna7H Somna7H is offline
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Re: Competitive spirit, resilience and makings of a winner in a natal chart.

I have Mars and Pluto Conjunction in Libra 6th. NN, Mercury and Sun in Cancer.
I like to compete against myself only.
There are too many hard aspetcs from Pluto to other planets in natal.
http://i.imgur.com/hCRDawD.jpg

Last edited by Somna7H; 09-05-2018 at 07:08 AM.
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  #13  
Unread 09-05-2018, 04:21 AM
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Re: Competitive spirit, resilience and makings of a winner in a natal chart.

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Originally Posted by AstroAssist View Post
how would a Scorpio Mars supposedly react to an offense?
Ideally, we'd get some folks with Scorpio Mars to weigh in here and tell us how it works for them. They're the best experts on themselves. And it wouldn't be the same for everyone with Mars in Scorpio, any more than you and I handle anger and grudges exactly alike.

Based on Scorpio's depth and tenacity, you might think a Scorpio Mars person would hold onto grudges and plot against their "nemesis" for months, but thinking of who I know well who has a Scorpio Mars, I don't see that in them. My sister has Mars in Scorpio, and if anything, I'm more grudge holding than she is. I've known her to just walk away from upsetting people and situations--not necessarily getting any fulfillment, more just getting free of them. Once, she sort-of rage quit her job--only it wasn't a case of spectacularly storming out, she just suddenly quit when things had been going badly and it got worse and worse and worse and finally the last straw came.

But, my sister is a very introspective person (it's reflected in her chart, too). Deep emotions are something she might deeply experience but not share. Not that she doesn't talk about them--she'll call up me or other family members whenever she's upset about something and just talk--but I'm not sure I see how deep it really is for her. I'm not sure anyone can.

And then, there's an old friend of mine who has Mars in Scorpio, and I haven't known him to be particularly grudge holding, either.

All in all, Scorpio, being a water sign, is very emotional. Regardless of what someone with Mars in Scorpio does in response to anger, it's what they're feeling that would really show the Scorpio, and what they're feeling would be very deep and known only to them. Others wouldn't see the depth of it, even if they were close.
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Unread 09-05-2018, 04:41 AM
ynnest ynnest is offline
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Re: Competitive spirit, resilience and makings of a winner in a natal chart.

With the risk of being off topic I just want to mention that Mike Tyson has a draconic mars in aries and Muhammad Ali had a draconic mars in scorpio. From my perspective these energies are clearly present when they are/were activating their will power.

Y
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  #15  
Unread 09-06-2018, 12:55 PM
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Re: Competitive spirit, resilience and makings of a winner in a natal chart.

I have mars in geminis in H5

My mars is very manipulated by other planets.

I have moon square mars

When they make me angry I am very ruthless with words and if they physically attack me I do not think about what I do, I do not think about the place I am and the people around me. Impulsive to the maximum .. add my mercury conj. pluton in scorpio is also ruthless and vengeful in psychological issues and words.

Mars in Scorpio is not overrated in the sense of revenge .. one of my best friends looks like this and bursts out of anger at anything, intimidates and is very ruthless.

His ex-girlfriend showed me the messages that he sent to break the relationship and omg ... terrifying the words he said.
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  #16  
Unread 09-09-2018, 07:46 AM
AstroAssist AstroAssist is offline
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Re: Competitive spirit, resilience and makings of a winner in a natal chart.

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Originally Posted by ynnest View Post
With the risk of being off topic I just want to mention that Mike Tyson has a draconic mars in aries and Muhammad Ali had a draconic mars in scorpio. From my perspective these energies are clearly present when they are/were activating their will power.

Y
Tyson had a Gemini Mars and Ali had a Taurus Mars.

Lets do our research before making things up.
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  #17  
Unread 09-09-2018, 05:25 PM
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Re: Competitive spirit, resilience and makings of a winner in a natal chart.

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Tyson had a Gemini Mars and Ali had a Taurus Mars.

Lets do our research before making things up.
Ynnest is talking about their draconic charts. That's different from the natal chart.

A draconic chart is what you get if you take a natal chart and move its north node to 0 Aries, and then adjust the rest of the chart accordingly. For example, suppose someone's natal chart has the north node at 15 Capricorn, the sun at 20 Taurus, and the moon at 0 Leo. In their draconic chart, sun would be at 5 Leo, moon at 15 Libra, and everything else would shift the same number of degrees in the same direction. The shape of the chart would be the same, all patterns and aspects would be the same, but everything would be in different signs. (Sign placement doesn't change much, if at all, in draconic if the actual north node is close to 0 Aries, but that's not the case for Tyson or Ali.)
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  #18  
Unread 09-09-2018, 11:19 PM
AstroAssist AstroAssist is offline
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Re: Competitive spirit, resilience and makings of a winner in a natal chart.

I notice that with Mars in Scorpio people and Scorpio placements in general, they can do damage when in a position of authority (a parent or a boss) but not when there is a leveled playing field. From my experience, they do play psycho games with people below them and people they would have power over anyways but on an even playing field, they get trucked quite easily.

I never got the "formidable foe" garbage that pops up on astrology sites, well other than the fact that those sites are heavily biased towards the sign. From my experience and what I have noticed in popular culture, Scorpio placements usually get demolished in competitive situations.
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