The 12th house and its psychological influence
- Thread starter SunW
- Start date
poyi
Premium Member
I don't have planet inside 12th house. But I have 12th house ruler living in 3rd house.
I am Virgo rising so Leo in the 12th. My Sun in Scorpio placed in 3rd house cojuncts Mercury in Scorpio as the MC ruler, Mercury sextile and mutual reception with 1st Virgo Mars the 8th house ruler, in Placidus system as well as Whole Sign system. My reality is I have always be fond of the occult and hidden world. I have great desire of uncovering the unknown, and to seek spiritual understanding of the ultimate imprisonment of mankind in personal as well as collective levels, therefore may I empower enough to liberate self and other. I deal with 12th and 8th house issues in 3rd house & 1st house bases daily and directly with physical involvement. The main theme is to learn and gain understanding as well as communicating about my observations.
I am Virgo rising so Leo in the 12th. My Sun in Scorpio placed in 3rd house cojuncts Mercury in Scorpio as the MC ruler, Mercury sextile and mutual reception with 1st Virgo Mars the 8th house ruler, in Placidus system as well as Whole Sign system. My reality is I have always be fond of the occult and hidden world. I have great desire of uncovering the unknown, and to seek spiritual understanding of the ultimate imprisonment of mankind in personal as well as collective levels, therefore may I empower enough to liberate self and other. I deal with 12th and 8th house issues in 3rd house & 1st house bases daily and directly with physical involvement. The main theme is to learn and gain understanding as well as communicating about my observations.
You didn't mention anything about your father. Did you have any problems with him? Did your mother have any problems with him while she was pregnant with you or in your early childhood?
Blue Lioness
Well-known member
I have Moon and Venus in the 12th. I don't think any of the things described about Moon in the 12th can be applied to me - maybe because my Moon is a bit more than 1 degree apart from my ASC, being considered an Moon in the 1st house? Also, I have never thought about Venus in the 12th this way, but it makes sense. My mother wanted to study Arts when she was young, but never had the chance.
A relative of mine has Sun in the 12th and nothing of what is described can be applied to him too. I never understood this position, actually. Since Sun is the personality and the 12th house is about hidden things, maybe someone with Sun in the 12th would have problems with showing their personalities to other people?
A relative of mine has Sun in the 12th and nothing of what is described can be applied to him too. I never understood this position, actually. Since Sun is the personality and the 12th house is about hidden things, maybe someone with Sun in the 12th would have problems with showing their personalities to other people?
poyi
Premium Member
The problem with Father and early childhood, is not solely seen through the relationship of Sun ruled over 12th placed in 3rd. It can not be read solely this way. I have difficult childhood but that is also to do with SN and the ruler of the 4th at IC, also Moon in Capricorn detriment, out of bounds and sextile her fall Scorpio Mercury. South node made a much clearer and stronger statement. The reason why I said that as Sun is not actually living inside 12th house so it was not in imprisonment physically but rather Sun looking at 12th house through the eyes of 3rd house as the outsider to observe the suffering and liberation of 12th house, the nature of the Sun is to learn about 12th house in daily basis.
JUPITERASC
Well-known member
Most people have problems of some variety with their father at some stage of their lives
and it's not unusual for mothers to have problems with the father of their child while they are pregnant - that's common
Significations of Planets in 12th vary according to sign and house location of their dispositor
- to say that
QUOTE
'everyone with Sun in 12th had an absent father during the childhood because he either dies or is absent because the parents separate. Then, the child feels what the mother feels about this situation. In other cases, the father lives with the family but he is not interested in the child. He might not spend much time with the child. The mother might be the leader in the family or she might decide that the child belongs entirely to her. The child is psychologically separated from the father. Some other people with the Sun in this house might experience separation from the father in their early childhood because he is just too busy and has to work a lot. In other cases, one of the parents had problems with his or her father during the pregnancy or in the early childhood of the owner of the horoscope. Or, during the first ears of the native, his or her father might be in a hospital'
IS GENERALIZED COOKBOOK STYLE ASTROLOGY
Psychologists differ regarding effects of an absent father
simply because those effects are dependent on multiple other variables in the life of an individual
Blue Lioness
Well-known member
SunW, does your book mention something regarding Pluto in the 12th house? I'm very curious about this placement.
Frisiangal
Well-known member
JUPITERASC;520513[/B said:
JUPITERASC;520513[/B said:
I'm not her greatest fan and not schooled in Hamaker's style of teaching, yet I am familiar with her style of writing and she can be very amusing in her spoken dialogue. She can make my hairs stand on end because she never makes a definite statement of point but rather provides options of various possibilities within a theme. Hindsight definitions when the facts are already known is different. She will then apply the astro. symbolism to the circumstances.
Consequently, I don't recognise her style at all in the descriptions given for the 12th house. She would never be so 'rawly' blunt. I think there's been a paraphrasing 'free translation' of how her words appeared to come across to SunW when reading, making it his/her words rather than those of Hamaker herself.
Once again, Cookbook astrology (not typical of Hamaker-Zondag).
I have Jupiter in the 12th. If I were to base my opinion of astrology on this reading I would have to call it hokum.
But that's what happens when you read any factor in a horoscope as an isolated "fact"...you get nonsense.
Hemingway had Mercury in the 12th...He wrote a couple of books if I recall (Mercury in 12th is "difficulty in communication?") Mercury there did have something to do with his suicide.
Such a simplistic approach to astrology is not likely to produce reliable results.
In natal astrology the chart MUST be seen as a whole, each part contributing to and affecting the expression of all other parts. Only when supported and substantiated by other chart factors might the delineations given in the OP be true, and as given they are certainly not complete enough to base a delineation of the chart on.
Astrological symbols are Universal in nature, and that universality opens the door to a myriad of possible expressions that conform to the symbolism. Through careful examination of all factors, the possible expressions can often be narrowed down. But otherwise such delineations are not much better than wild guesses.
Might as well say, "Oh, you have the Sun in Taurus. You were born to be a banker."
Even in horary astrology, where the position of a planet is more likely to have a definite and specific meaning, it has that meaning only in the context of the question asked. Its specificity is due to the specificity of the question.
I have Jupiter in the 12th. If I were to base my opinion of astrology on this reading I would have to call it hokum.
But that's what happens when you read any factor in a horoscope as an isolated "fact"...you get nonsense.
Hemingway had Mercury in the 12th...He wrote a couple of books if I recall (Mercury in 12th is "difficulty in communication?") Mercury there did have something to do with his suicide.
Such a simplistic approach to astrology is not likely to produce reliable results.
In natal astrology the chart MUST be seen as a whole, each part contributing to and affecting the expression of all other parts. Only when supported and substantiated by other chart factors might the delineations given in the OP be true, and as given they are certainly not complete enough to base a delineation of the chart on.
Astrological symbols are Universal in nature, and that universality opens the door to a myriad of possible expressions that conform to the symbolism. Through careful examination of all factors, the possible expressions can often be narrowed down. But otherwise such delineations are not much better than wild guesses.
Might as well say, "Oh, you have the Sun in Taurus. You were born to be a banker."
Even in horary astrology, where the position of a planet is more likely to have a definite and specific meaning, it has that meaning only in the context of the question asked. Its specificity is due to the specificity of the question.
Cassiopeia6
Member
I have moon in the 12th house in Virgo. I was adopted. And also my adopted mom is not nurturing/ is emotionally absent. I have sun in the 5th in aquarius.. my adopted father is a huge part of my life and I am very close to him. No other planets in the 12th.
JUPITERASC
Well-known member
Hundreds of millions of people have their natal moon in the 12th house in Virgo
BUT
they were not all adopted
and of those who were adopted
not all are necessarily close to their adopted father
I have my sun and mercury in the 12th house (aquarius), so pisces ASC with neptune in the 10th. Having neptune in the 10th can mean that your father will remain a mystery to you, which is true for me. My parents broke up when I was 1yo, and I grew up on the opposite coast from my dad. My dad knows very little about his family history so I've never gotten much information. I also have Venus in the 10th, and I definitely look more like my father's family than my mother's (although I have an aries moon in the first house, opposing my mother's ASC... god knows what that means in terms of appearance...).
I also have a very dominant, self-involved mother (leo sun conj. pluto) that made it challenging for me to express myself growing up. Additionally, I have chiron in gemini in the 3rd, so combined with mercury in the 12th (and gemini on the cusp of my 4th as well [duplicate]), there's a lot of anxiety and apprehension around communication/self-expression.
My dad has his sun, mercury and mars in the 12th (aries), and his parents died (addiction-related) when he was very young. Not versed enough to know what other indicators would have contributed to that particular life experience though, but perhaps it's part of my family karma to have such a strong 12th house/pisces influence.
I also have a very dominant, self-involved mother (leo sun conj. pluto) that made it challenging for me to express myself growing up. Additionally, I have chiron in gemini in the 3rd, so combined with mercury in the 12th (and gemini on the cusp of my 4th as well [duplicate]), there's a lot of anxiety and apprehension around communication/self-expression.
My dad has his sun, mercury and mars in the 12th (aries), and his parents died (addiction-related) when he was very young. Not versed enough to know what other indicators would have contributed to that particular life experience though, but perhaps it's part of my family karma to have such a strong 12th house/pisces influence.
Psychological influence of the 12th?
It's being held captive (jails, hospitals, asylums, abductions, hostages and slavery....)
So here is where you will find
Anything to which you are enslaved.
Anything which keeps you in bondage and impairs your freedom to live fully.
It is self-defeating, self-injuring, self-destructive actions, habits, thought patterns. Suicide is found here. Secret enemies lurk in the bushes.
There is isolation, enforced or voluntary. Monasteries and convents, caves in the Himalaya, retreat into a world of fantasy or insanity. The marginalized live here.
Mars in the 12th....how about a "prison warden", or her father who was a detective with the state police? The lady was not a prisoner, but controlled prisoners.
How about secret and debilitating fears and illusions?
I use the 12th as "the personal unconscious." That's stuff you didn't want to deal with, didn't know how, and forgot "on purpose". It's accessible to consciousness (but usually not easy to get to). One of my most striking cases....it was long ago and I forget just what the configuration was... was a woman in her mid-30s. At the close of the interview I offered something about "violence against you". She broke into tears, deep sobbing and this went on for nearly a half-hour. At the age of 12 she had been hospitalized and one of the orderlies had raped her. For 20 years she had no memory of this, until a clumsy astrologer brought it back to consciousness. That's the personal unconscious.
I have a friend with Mars and Venus conjunct, early Taurus, in the 12th...Venus lord of the Ascendant, Mars lord of 12th. He runs the local AA chapter, has a little community church....He works with people who are "lost" or "searching", the underdog, the troubled. He lives in a spiritual world, of sorts.
The 12th is a moksha house. (Ain't it a curious thing, the moksha houses are also houses of suffering.) The 12th, with all of its themes of bondage, is also the house of liberation. It is the escaped prisoner, the manumitted slave.
It's being held captive (jails, hospitals, asylums, abductions, hostages and slavery....)
So here is where you will find
Anything to which you are enslaved.
Anything which keeps you in bondage and impairs your freedom to live fully.
It is self-defeating, self-injuring, self-destructive actions, habits, thought patterns. Suicide is found here. Secret enemies lurk in the bushes.
There is isolation, enforced or voluntary. Monasteries and convents, caves in the Himalaya, retreat into a world of fantasy or insanity. The marginalized live here.
Mars in the 12th....how about a "prison warden", or her father who was a detective with the state police? The lady was not a prisoner, but controlled prisoners.
How about secret and debilitating fears and illusions?
I use the 12th as "the personal unconscious." That's stuff you didn't want to deal with, didn't know how, and forgot "on purpose". It's accessible to consciousness (but usually not easy to get to). One of my most striking cases....it was long ago and I forget just what the configuration was... was a woman in her mid-30s. At the close of the interview I offered something about "violence against you". She broke into tears, deep sobbing and this went on for nearly a half-hour. At the age of 12 she had been hospitalized and one of the orderlies had raped her. For 20 years she had no memory of this, until a clumsy astrologer brought it back to consciousness. That's the personal unconscious.
I have a friend with Mars and Venus conjunct, early Taurus, in the 12th...Venus lord of the Ascendant, Mars lord of 12th. He runs the local AA chapter, has a little community church....He works with people who are "lost" or "searching", the underdog, the troubled. He lives in a spiritual world, of sorts.
The 12th is a moksha house. (Ain't it a curious thing, the moksha houses are also houses of suffering.) The 12th, with all of its themes of bondage, is also the house of liberation. It is the escaped prisoner, the manumitted slave.
JUPITERASC
Well-known member
dr. farr's definition is a good one also
Bondage/slavery as defined above, highlights the key issue which is an inability to escape from
and/or
an inability to free oneself from
a particular situation in life.
The psychological effects would vary dependent on the individual natal chart...
however those psychological effects are likely to include most definitely feelings of powerlessness
anger
frustration
which IF the situation continues
could then understandably engender feelings of despair
Andrea_
Well-known member
But, I have a question!
As a 12th House 2 degrees Capricorn Sun conjunct Jupiter in Sagittarius sitting on the Galactic Centre (so the ruler of the 12th is in the 12th and in acc dignity) which semi-sextile my Moon conjunct Venus in Aquarius in the 1st House, i judge things like this: why should the 12th House mean only bad things?
Everybody talks about how it is related to hospitals, slavery, karmic debts and ugly things, but i believe that this is happening because we use our subconsciousness as a garbage pit, partially because this is the way society teaches us on a more ovious note (by obvious, i mean the trends to which people choose to stick to, for example, the duck face on facebook, posting every meal you eat daily, and a picture of you in every bathroom of the city?)
Many people think that thoughts, restrained feelings and hunches can be shoved like sockets in your deepest "shelves" and ignored, until nothing fits in there anymore. It is a desire to distance oneself from his or her original state and become something better, which isn't bad, but in the process they forget they must move as a whole, with their souls and hearts and lessons learned not only with their looks and the superficial information stored in the brain. You may try to copy and look like your favourite movie actor as much as you wish, but unless the changes comes from within and according to your life circumstances, you will never be truly respected for what you are trying to become more than for what you can accomplish by listening to your instinct.
Instinct is a big part of me, it's like a small voice guiding you sometimes, and this thing saved my butt more times than any other thing, although i also happened to interprete it wrongly and mess up my situation, i won't deny it, but in the end, once i went through all the obstacles, i ended up with something better that if i would have done nothing.
I think that only learning to stop and ponder over your deepest thoughts you earn true freedom, and that the 12th house of "slavery" can bring the greatest form of expression and personal freedom once one works with him/herself. The same way a "fall" will always be more painfull when one is situated at great "heights" (reality check?).
It also 'happens' that the 12th House is related to the most "invisible" and abstract things that have to do with the humanity's unconsciousness, and because, again, many people use theirs as garbage pits, it is seen as an awfull thing when having to deal with them/it/yours. But, i think Neptune is like the Saturn of the abstract/feeling world: if you walk in the "sea" of emotions and learn to draw lines and create your path, you also learn to exploit the boundaries and experience freedom.
And talking about isolation... it is actually better if we choose it from time to time (and even so we will never be truly isolated) because it helps clear the mind, i say. It's all about the intention you have and send: if it's good, it'll work out, but if you continue to see it as a horrendous thing, it'll never do the magic trick for you.
Don't these sound a lot like the usual eastern teachings everybody heard about at one point? I believe each religion has an unique and good message to send, and they are like puzzle pieces that give a better view when put together.
Also, isn't the confusion suggested by this House coming from the fact that one doesn't know which one to put first, society norms, natural norms, the instinctual ones... and the fear of unknown? Or from the fact that there are so many things to learn when "accessing" it? It's a very rich house in my opinion. Like the precious stones that can be found deep inside a mountain, and the clearest rivers that exist only at great depths.
The same tendencies that we do on a small scale manifest on the bigger one: we abuse and dump things in the subconsciousness that we can't admit/gulp easily, the same way we dispose of trash and polluate nature and think that throwing them in the recycle bin won't harm anyone or anything. Now if we multiply these thoughts by a few milions because we aren't alone in this world, well, after a while, you realise the responsability of being the most numerous species on a Planet ^^
About the basic evil effects of the 12th House... they are a bit dramatised. Because those people thathave somethig important in the 12th have been given the tools: darkness, precious gems, but also a good sixth sense to guide them. Or "deep roots" maybe. And the possibility to transform original weaknesses into strenghts. Of course, not everybody was born in a pile of feathers and gold at their feet, or even a roof above them... or someone to take care of them... but we are social animals, where are we when someone else needs help? every individual that starts thinking about the other one too at one point, might save a life one day
I think i would have been pretty afraid or lost without a belief in something good, or a peaceful attitude... not that i don't have my moments, but i try to, oh, manage them
And company is very important for people with 12th House Sun, in the sense that love and understanding for them from other people/parents/family/friends is a precious key. Not that it isn't crucial for anybody, but for those more sensible to these kind of things, it overrides the need for being in the spotlight and artificial admiration.
Though, what i've seen is that recognision for something appears only late or not at the right moment, unless i "stick" what i've done into "someone's eye" in a way or another because that's the way people are taught to recognise things... which i don't really like, so, well, yeah, there are hard things about having the 2 most ego-driven planets in the most ego-less House.
I hope this doesn't sound shallow, there is so much more to be told... sometimes living with a heavy thing on your shoulders grants you immunity against the weird and bad things generated by people in this world. As simple as that. You just refract away certain negative vibes, or you subconsciously but powerfully oppose certain people, as even the most insensitive will get the tingle of "i shouldn't mess with this one". But I honestly have no idea about what is truly negative or not. Believing that the 12th is all about trouble would be like betraying myself. If you as an astrologer say that everything has a meaning and everyone has a place, then why is the 12th so unfortunate when it gives you such a beautiful place in the world, regardless of the ignorance existant around? I would choose any day to live in faster, more powerfull but clean and refreshing water rather than in calm but murky and polluted water.
What about "stars impel but do not compel"? Once again, aren't we the ones choosing a certain thing? Behaving one way that hurts someone deeply and then wondering why stuff happens to us? Maybe even running away from something, constantly, hoping it will disappear?
Why cannot we naturally heal ourselves faster or do not choose to evolve in such a direction so that we can aknowledge ourselves so well that we come to learn to intepret our body signals and influence them, something which only little people can do and people have done in times of crisis or very dangerous situations (stuff like ? Why do we destroy or neglect our natural means of healing over time? (ie: nature, sleeping habbits...) Why do we choose to follow the weaker rulers in mind and heart and not the strongest (the ones that resents bad things, orgies, scandals, because it's one of the easiest things to just let yourself fall) or the one that wants the good of the community, when everything else in nature has a ruler that thinks about the well-being of it's pack/family/herd as much as it's brain cells permit it?
Or maybe, are we actually balanced? Are we going up or down? Are we too complicated and think too much? Sometimes, when i put this question to myself there is no definite answer other than one: we could do as much as we want to ourselves, but when we actually threaten to destroy the Earth, this is a point where you know we'e going down, really, really fast. Is it really written in ourselves to destroy what we are given, instead of just letting stuff come as it should?
If such, doesn't the the self-undoing of the 12th House really reflect a bigger tendency on a wider scale?
And the funny part is that it takes almost nothing at all to actually embrace better values in life.
I think it's very funny and sad to see, how much importance and attention are gay rights given, for example, yet no one bats an eye at the fact that you environment is bombarded, and people and suffering from hunger world wide. Yeah, it's also funny when i wonder why so litle people see it, sense it, realise it. It's like watching puppets on strings that bump their heads in a wall for no reason at all.
This is something realy nice to read : http://blog.medicinegarden.com/2011/05/the-12th-house-keys-to-the-kingdom/
As a 12th House 2 degrees Capricorn Sun conjunct Jupiter in Sagittarius sitting on the Galactic Centre (so the ruler of the 12th is in the 12th and in acc dignity) which semi-sextile my Moon conjunct Venus in Aquarius in the 1st House, i judge things like this: why should the 12th House mean only bad things?
Everybody talks about how it is related to hospitals, slavery, karmic debts and ugly things, but i believe that this is happening because we use our subconsciousness as a garbage pit, partially because this is the way society teaches us on a more ovious note (by obvious, i mean the trends to which people choose to stick to, for example, the duck face on facebook, posting every meal you eat daily, and a picture of you in every bathroom of the city?)
Many people think that thoughts, restrained feelings and hunches can be shoved like sockets in your deepest "shelves" and ignored, until nothing fits in there anymore. It is a desire to distance oneself from his or her original state and become something better, which isn't bad, but in the process they forget they must move as a whole, with their souls and hearts and lessons learned not only with their looks and the superficial information stored in the brain. You may try to copy and look like your favourite movie actor as much as you wish, but unless the changes comes from within and according to your life circumstances, you will never be truly respected for what you are trying to become more than for what you can accomplish by listening to your instinct.
Instinct is a big part of me, it's like a small voice guiding you sometimes, and this thing saved my butt more times than any other thing, although i also happened to interprete it wrongly and mess up my situation, i won't deny it, but in the end, once i went through all the obstacles, i ended up with something better that if i would have done nothing.
I think that only learning to stop and ponder over your deepest thoughts you earn true freedom, and that the 12th house of "slavery" can bring the greatest form of expression and personal freedom once one works with him/herself. The same way a "fall" will always be more painfull when one is situated at great "heights" (reality check?).
It also 'happens' that the 12th House is related to the most "invisible" and abstract things that have to do with the humanity's unconsciousness, and because, again, many people use theirs as garbage pits, it is seen as an awfull thing when having to deal with them/it/yours. But, i think Neptune is like the Saturn of the abstract/feeling world: if you walk in the "sea" of emotions and learn to draw lines and create your path, you also learn to exploit the boundaries and experience freedom.
And talking about isolation... it is actually better if we choose it from time to time (and even so we will never be truly isolated) because it helps clear the mind, i say. It's all about the intention you have and send: if it's good, it'll work out, but if you continue to see it as a horrendous thing, it'll never do the magic trick for you.
Don't these sound a lot like the usual eastern teachings everybody heard about at one point? I believe each religion has an unique and good message to send, and they are like puzzle pieces that give a better view when put together.
Also, isn't the confusion suggested by this House coming from the fact that one doesn't know which one to put first, society norms, natural norms, the instinctual ones... and the fear of unknown? Or from the fact that there are so many things to learn when "accessing" it? It's a very rich house in my opinion. Like the precious stones that can be found deep inside a mountain, and the clearest rivers that exist only at great depths.
The same tendencies that we do on a small scale manifest on the bigger one: we abuse and dump things in the subconsciousness that we can't admit/gulp easily, the same way we dispose of trash and polluate nature and think that throwing them in the recycle bin won't harm anyone or anything. Now if we multiply these thoughts by a few milions because we aren't alone in this world, well, after a while, you realise the responsability of being the most numerous species on a Planet ^^
About the basic evil effects of the 12th House... they are a bit dramatised. Because those people thathave somethig important in the 12th have been given the tools: darkness, precious gems, but also a good sixth sense to guide them. Or "deep roots" maybe. And the possibility to transform original weaknesses into strenghts. Of course, not everybody was born in a pile of feathers and gold at their feet, or even a roof above them... or someone to take care of them... but we are social animals, where are we when someone else needs help? every individual that starts thinking about the other one too at one point, might save a life one day
I think i would have been pretty afraid or lost without a belief in something good, or a peaceful attitude... not that i don't have my moments, but i try to, oh, manage them
And company is very important for people with 12th House Sun, in the sense that love and understanding for them from other people/parents/family/friends is a precious key. Not that it isn't crucial for anybody, but for those more sensible to these kind of things, it overrides the need for being in the spotlight and artificial admiration.Though, what i've seen is that recognision for something appears only late or not at the right moment, unless i "stick" what i've done into "someone's eye" in a way or another because that's the way people are taught to recognise things... which i don't really like, so, well, yeah, there are hard things about having the 2 most ego-driven planets in the most ego-less House.
I hope this doesn't sound shallow, there is so much more to be told... sometimes living with a heavy thing on your shoulders grants you immunity against the weird and bad things generated by people in this world. As simple as that. You just refract away certain negative vibes, or you subconsciously but powerfully oppose certain people, as even the most insensitive will get the tingle of "i shouldn't mess with this one". But I honestly have no idea about what is truly negative or not. Believing that the 12th is all about trouble would be like betraying myself. If you as an astrologer say that everything has a meaning and everyone has a place, then why is the 12th so unfortunate when it gives you such a beautiful place in the world, regardless of the ignorance existant around? I would choose any day to live in faster, more powerfull but clean and refreshing water rather than in calm but murky and polluted water.
What about "stars impel but do not compel"? Once again, aren't we the ones choosing a certain thing? Behaving one way that hurts someone deeply and then wondering why stuff happens to us? Maybe even running away from something, constantly, hoping it will disappear?
Why cannot we naturally heal ourselves faster or do not choose to evolve in such a direction so that we can aknowledge ourselves so well that we come to learn to intepret our body signals and influence them, something which only little people can do and people have done in times of crisis or very dangerous situations (stuff like ? Why do we destroy or neglect our natural means of healing over time? (ie: nature, sleeping habbits...) Why do we choose to follow the weaker rulers in mind and heart and not the strongest (the ones that resents bad things, orgies, scandals, because it's one of the easiest things to just let yourself fall) or the one that wants the good of the community, when everything else in nature has a ruler that thinks about the well-being of it's pack/family/herd as much as it's brain cells permit it?
Or maybe, are we actually balanced? Are we going up or down? Are we too complicated and think too much? Sometimes, when i put this question to myself there is no definite answer other than one: we could do as much as we want to ourselves, but when we actually threaten to destroy the Earth, this is a point where you know we'e going down, really, really fast. Is it really written in ourselves to destroy what we are given, instead of just letting stuff come as it should?
If such, doesn't the the self-undoing of the 12th House really reflect a bigger tendency on a wider scale?
And the funny part is that it takes almost nothing at all to actually embrace better values in life.
I think it's very funny and sad to see, how much importance and attention are gay rights given, for example, yet no one bats an eye at the fact that you environment is bombarded, and people and suffering from hunger world wide. Yeah, it's also funny when i wonder why so litle people see it, sense it, realise it. It's like watching puppets on strings that bump their heads in a wall for no reason at all.
This is something realy nice to read
: http://blog.medicinegarden.com/2011/05/the-12th-house-keys-to-the-kingdom/
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gracemontez
Member
My Venus is in Aquarius,Sun and Neptune in Capricorn,all in 12th house )). I have difficulty understanding myself. I'm prone to depression and i have never had a bestfriend or boyfriend. I also often isolate myself from the world outside.
p/s : my venus is retrogate.
)). I have difficulty understanding myself. I'm prone to depression and i have never had a bestfriend or boyfriend. I also often isolate myself from the world outside. p/s : my venus is retrogate.
i agree, unfortunately (for me) the ancients were right, the 12th house is primarily an unfortunate house
i have ascendant ruler (jupiter) in 12th house in all house systems and i can testify of its unfortunate potency
the only thing the 12th house is good for is spiritual life and even that kind of life is greatly beset with troubles
it is better to have a planet in 12th that is not the ascendant ruler, i'm certain of it
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Love2Know
Well-known member
I have 12th mercury.. this general ps the 'ancients were fearful as hell.. it gets old fast. When i read terrible astrology interpertations my dad reminds me it was written prob from a place were maybe most people died a lot earlier than now or had diffrent values and concerns.
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your mercury isnt ascendant ruler and it isnt that important in your chart, gemini and virgo are empty in your natal if im not mistaken (of course the ruler of those 2 houses is still mercury in 12th)
the ancients were spot on, i love fatalism (it's the way life is), im an extreme fatalist myself, i hate the term "free will", no such thing, people use that to make themselves feel better, man has no influence over his life destiny
i hate political correctness, beating around the bush, sugar coating stuff....
if it's white tell me it's white, if it's black tell me it's black, if it's little bit white little bit black then tell me it is grey
what's the point in studying astrology if you believe in free will, these 2 arent compatible
no offense to anyone, just my opinion of course
the ancients were spot on, i love fatalism (it's the way life is), im an extreme fatalist myself, i hate the term "free will", no such thing, people use that to make themselves feel better, man has no influence over his life destiny
i hate political correctness, beating around the bush, sugar coating stuff....
if it's white tell me it's white, if it's black tell me it's black, if it's little bit white little bit black then tell me it is grey
what's the point in studying astrology if you believe in free will, these 2 arent compatible
no offense to anyone, just my opinion of course
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