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Unread 04-22-2021, 11:52 AM
Milarien Milarien is offline
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Will he leave her - time limited

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Unread 04-22-2021, 03:12 PM
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Re: Will he leave her - time limited

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Originally Posted by Milarien View Post
I'm in this chart as I'm asking the question and what I do next is somewhat (okay highly) dependent on the outcome, but it is not asking if he and I will be together - that's a separate question I think...

I'm L1 Mars in the 8th, which makes sense, as I'm hurting, but also poised to make a change - Mars is at 29 degrees about to move into Cancer. He's Venus (L7) and in his 12th house in a stellium... I'm really unsure how to read stelliums, they're very confusing...

Everything I've read so far says to assign Saturn to her as the "scorned"? partner? which seems a little harsh, but she can't be Venus and the moon is my co-sig, so that kind of leaves Saturn. If that's right then yes, he will as Venus makes an applying square to Saturn in the 4th (his 10th) - although Venus might still be under combustion? There are so many different degrees for that... Then there is Mercury involved, also combust and the Sun... all in his 12th house. The sun rules his 4th house (radix 10th). The sun also has reception with the Moon, my co-sig...

all in all it's highly confusing, but the time limit I imposed on this was 2 weeks, because I don't want to hang around forever waiting for him to make his choices/decisions.

Any help clarifying as it really looks like I'm poised to jump into something... sigh

Thank you in advance
May I request your permission to explore a bit further about this something into which you are poised to jump?

What is your interest in his leaving her if not to ask if you will be together?


If you get a yes to "Will he leave her?" and your next question is, "If he leaves her, will you be together?" then *that* is the true underlying question.
If that is the true underlying question, then that is what the practice of horary requires you present here.

And it will be answered here in this chart.
I am just wondering.
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Unread 04-24-2021, 01:11 PM
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Re: Will he leave her - time limited

Milarian

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Will he leave her - time limited
I'm in this chart as I'm asking the question and what I do next is somewhat (okay highly) dependent on the outcome, but it is not asking if he and I will be together - that's a separate question I think...

I'm L1 Mars in the 8th, which makes sense, as I'm hurting, but also poised to make a change - Mars is at 29 degrees about to move into Cancer. He's Venus (L7) and in his 12th house in a stellium... I'm really unsure how to read stelliums, they're very confusing...

Everything I've read so far says to assign Saturn to her as the "scorned"? partner? which seems a little harsh, but she can't be Venus and the moon is my co-sig, so that kind of leaves Saturn. If that's right then yes, he will as Venus makes an applying square to Saturn in the 4th (his 10th) - although Venus might still be under combustion? There are so many different degrees for that... Then there is Mercury involved, also combust and the Sun... all in his 12th house. The sun rules his 4th house (radix 10th). The sun also has reception with the Moon, my co-sig...

all in all it's highly confusing, but the time limit I imposed on this was 2 weeks, because I don't want to hang around forever waiting for him to make his choices/decisions.

Any help clarifying as it really looks like I'm poised to jump into something... sigh

Thank you in advance
Moon can act as a co ruler for both the question and the querent(s), she rules the general tenement of the query.
A question I have: Is the individual you are asking about in an 'unbridled relationship' i.e., objective, one that is romance poised to become matrimonial, yet the decision was to be in the offing, as you are wishing for with the prospective individual? Is there a marriage involved in the question presently?
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Unread 04-24-2021, 02:54 PM
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Re: Will he leave her - time limited

Milarian

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Re: Will he leave her - time limited
okay, for the sake of the narrative that everyone expects, how about: Will he leave her and if he does **should** I enter a relationship with him.
Moon is moving to sextile (opportunity) Mars (the male principle) in the 8th house (changes) = yes, one confirmation. Jupiter rules the romantic interest (him), if the relationship he is in is currently unbridled=5th house.-Not to say his principle prospective future with her, was at one time, matrimonial, (7th=living together as a partnership?) as entering into any serious relationship usually is-in the best of interests. But to my knowledge at present she is the 5th house from the radix 5th house (9th = Moon)-(his Ascendant ruler Jupiter is of the radix 5th H.C.).

You are Mars/Pluto (Scorpio rising) in Mars/Pluto's house, dignified accidentally. Mars is in thinking, thoughtful planning (Gemini) on the verge of being 'over' deposited in 8th house about this concern, ready to make a change based on, circumstances evolving about the future of romance in general (Mars of Aries [Aries on the 'future' 2nd house = 6th house] turning the wheel. (Seen from the perspective viewpoint of the 5th house, 6th house is the 2nd from that house), These placements could entail removal of home and hearth, (Mercury, Moon are depositors of Mars @ 29 deg.) = Moon rules movement as does Mars poised at 29th deg. ready to entertain Cancer prospects. Ultimatum Moon in fixed Leo has recently partile opposed Jupiter in Cancer's domain of endings. The decision you have made with him to make changes because of current romantic circumstances, interests-that involve dwellings should things work out for you?

The move should be in about 3 increments of timing, Moon is in Leo (fixed) in the 10th house (Cardinal dwelling) about to make a change into the 11th house of goals, hopes = Virgo, comingling Mercury within the timing and involving communication-habits. Mercury into the picture; (subjective hidden steady (Taurus) planning is necessary, Mercury and Venus (ruler of the 7th house of partnering) are Combust the Sun, a 12th house Cadent-placement, the house is full of stellium planets, which centers about the business of love, romantic interests. These situations are being eclipsed somewhat, the concerns they rule 'hardly on don't go so well', (paraphrased of Lilly as he would say) the 'Cadency' of these planets could refer to undecided time limitations. In a cadent house their subject matters are not so secure and might be failing in some respects.

It is currently not settled yet, but the changes will occur. Moon is in an angle we look to her for timing, at length or longer 2-3 months, I don't believe it will be weeks. Venus is about to make a partile conj. to unsettled Uranus who is at the bottom of the chart ruling the end concerns of this question. Look to him for permanent changes. He is fixed in Taurus, in his fall from grace place. The changes could entail a price (Venus in Taurus) of hectic venue.

All the best

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Unread 04-24-2021, 04:13 PM
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Re: Will he leave her - time limited

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Originally Posted by Milarien View Post
okay, for the sake of the narrative that everyone expects, how about: Will he leave her and if he does **should** I enter a relationship with him.

I know you are genuinely and honestly trying to center in the question and I appreciate your effort. That said, in terms of horary, what you have done here makes the question more complex and less clear, at least to me.

I see the question as "Will we get back into a wholesome and beneficial relationship?" He would obviously would have to leave the other woman for this to occur. And, if he isn't going to be leaving her, then that would be built into a possible reason for this question to be answered as no.

So, looking at that question, we see that he/Venus is strong in this matter. Using whole sign houses he is in his dignity and in his own/7th house; focused on his own matters. You as Mars are about to move Mars' greatest debility, in its fall in the sign of Cancer, as he/Venus continues to separate from its last aspect to Mars.

Venus and Mars will not aspect for a very long while; longer than whatever time period you have in mind consciously or unconsciously for this rather dynamic and complex situation in which you find yourself.

I would say that the matter will not reckoned to your satisfaction in that time period. But it is not to say never. Moon's sextile to Mars points to some good movement in the nearer term.
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Unread 04-24-2021, 11:04 PM
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Re: Will he leave her - time limited

No, they never married. There is no marriage involved. I did ask him about that and his answer was "she never asked me". There is a long term partnership but not marriage, no. He has no intention of marrying her.

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Milarian



Moon can act as a co ruler for both the question and the querent(s), she rules the general tenement of the query.
A question I have: Is the individual you are asking about in an 'unbridled relationship' i.e., objective, one that is romance poised to become matrimonial, yet the decision was to be in the offing, as you are wishing for with the prospective individual? Is there a marriage involved in the question presently?
StarDust1
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Unread 05-28-2021, 11:02 AM
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Re: Will he leave her - time limited

Coming back to this because of some strange developments and I'm unsure where to look for unexpected (and unpleasant) events...
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Unread 05-28-2021, 04:30 PM
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Re: Will he leave her - time limited

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Coming back to this because of some strange developments and I'm unsure where to look for unexpected (and unpleasant) events...

Upon which significator or significators do the unexpected and unpleasant events fall?
It might be helpful from a delineation viewpoint if you could briefly sketch out what has ensued?
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Unread 05-28-2021, 05:05 PM
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Re: Will he leave her - time limited

Upon her actually, but I'm being blamed for them. So I don't really know which significator that would be... and since we don't tend to use Uranus, I don't know what to look for.


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Upon which significator or significators do the unexpected and unpleasant events fall?
It might be helpful from a delineation viewpoint if you could briefly sketch out what has ensued?
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Unread 05-28-2021, 07:19 PM
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Re: Will he leave her - time limited

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Upon her actually, but I'm being blamed for them. So I don't really know which significator that would be... and since we don't tend to use Uranus, I don't know what to look for.
For me, at least, what I experience as your lack of clarity makes it hard to get a handle on what you are seeking. Like, what's the deal?
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Unread 05-28-2021, 11:52 PM
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Re: Will he leave her - time limited

Yes, being unexperienced at horary does leave me at a disadvantage, but asking questions is the only way to learn.

Where do you look for "mischief", interference. In natal astrology this would be Uranus...


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For me, at least, what I experience as your lack of clarity makes it hard to get a handle on what you are seeking. Like, what's the deal?
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Unread 05-29-2021, 12:36 PM
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Okay - I've had my server hacked with someone downloading the chat logs between me and J; my facebook hacked, his facebook hacked, my credit cards used, my address changed, chat logs sent to her, this kind of mischief, or perhaps you'd call it malice? I don't know what to look for for this kind of thing.

Is that clearer? (I'm on Australian time, so different probably from you). Anyway, I hope that's clearer on the type of mischief I mean.. :/


*****although I really don't understand what you find so unclear? *****


Yes, I'm inexperienced and new to this, but weren't you once? I had thought this was a place to learn.
I did not mean to offend or chastise. There is no problem with your questions. They are welcome. It is that
horary is based on people, events, context. Your questions are so spare in such a complex matter that significators become very difficult if not impossible to determine.
I am sorry for the upsets you just described; it is not my intent to intrude.

To find people acting unfavorably toward you, you first determine their significator. And look then at its reception with your significator. Typically Ur would not be employed. I hope this methodology answers your question.

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Unread 05-29-2021, 12:59 PM
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Re: Will he leave her - time limited

No, that's quite alright, really. It's probably that I don't realise what level of detail I need to give...

What I was looking for was something in this chart that would explain this kind of response to the situation. Is that clear? I hope so :/ Where would I look for the significator for this kind of problem? It's determining the significator that I'm having a problem with

Thanks for the help.

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I did not mean to offend or chastise. There is no problem with your questions. They are welcome. It is that
horary is based on people, events, context. Your questions are so spare in such a complex matter that significators become very difficult if not impossible to determine.
I am sorry for the upsets you just described; it is not my intent to intrude.

To find people acting unfavorably toward you, you first determine their significator. And look then at its reception with your significator. Typically Ur would not be employed. I hope this methodology answers your question.
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Unread 05-29-2021, 03:37 PM
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Re: Will he leave her - time limited

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No, that's quite alright, really. It's probably that I don't realise what level of detail I need to give...

What I was looking for was something in this chart that would explain this kind of response to the situation. Is that clear? I hope so :/ Where would I look for the significator for this kind of problem? It's determining the significator that I'm having a problem with

Thanks for the help.
Horary describes what will or has happened and when. I am not sure a chart can explain why someone would respond maliciously, only that they would be inclined to do so.

Here is what I can share with you about the houses that might be associated with adverse behaviour toward your significator. All of this is from Deb Houlding's website, Skyscript, under the Horary link at the top of the home page:

  • Traditional astrology relates the eighth house to crisis, hidden matters, anguish of mind, poison and deadly fears; its concern is the inhibiting factors that stand in our way. It is a house of personal vulnerability. In Horary Astrology is refers to the above and also death, loss, or issues relating to these for the querent. Issues that bring us fear, anxiety or loss.
  • Traditionally, twelfth house it is a wholly unfortunate house, associated with sad events, sorrow, anguish of mind, tribulation, captivity, imprisonment, persecution, hard labour, all manner of affliction and self-undoing. It has much to do with shame and the fear of future consequences. Its significations include secret, unknown enemies, such men as maliciously undermine their neighbours or inform secretly against them: traitors, spies; witchcraft, malicious hauntings; weakness, infirmity and bondage.
I think what I highlight in blue comes closest to the malicious behaviour you describe. Mercury rules the 8th and is in the sign of your/Mars' detriment. One way of interpreting the reception, [which I don't practice, but others do] would suggest that this party does not like you. This party/Merc goes on the conjunct him/Venus very soon after this chart is cast.

I am not be able to tell you anything more except that it appears that the significator of the ill-will from the 8th, Mercury, is closely connected to him/Venus, both in his house using whole sign houses and also soon to conjunct Venus, who receives Mercury well.


PS It probably is worth noting that your significator, Mars, is in the 8th house, so pointing to your being the recipient of ill-fortune in these circumstances.


Sorry I cannot be of more help.

I am wishing you well,
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Unread 05-29-2021, 06:34 PM
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I see! Thank you so much Ilene - that's very helpful and actually points me to a person I had wondered about. It's also very helpful to know where to look for these kinds of things.

I read skyscript a lot; there's so much to learn there, and here.

Thank you ever so much.
Kindest regards
Mila

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Originally Posted by IleneK View Post
Horary describes what will or has happened and when. I am not sure a chart can explain why someone would respond maliciously, only that they would be inclined to do so.

Here is what I can share with you about the houses that might be associated with adverse behaviour toward your significator. All of this is from Deb Houlding's website, Skyscript, under the Horary link at the top of the home page:

  • Traditional astrology relates the eighth house to crisis, hidden matters, anguish of mind, poison and deadly fears; its concern is the inhibiting factors that stand in our way. It is a house of personal vulnerability. In Horary Astrology is refers to the above and also death, loss, or issues relating to these for the querent. Issues that bring us fear, anxiety or loss.
  • Traditionally, twelfth house it is a wholly unfortunate house, associated with sad events, sorrow, anguish of mind, tribulation, captivity, imprisonment, persecution, hard labour, all manner of affliction and self-undoing. It has much to do with shame and the fear of future consequences. Its significations include secret, unknown enemies, such men as maliciously undermine their neighbours or inform secretly against them: traitors, spies; witchcraft, malicious hauntings; weakness, infirmity and bondage.
I think what I highlight in blue comes closest to the malicious behaviour you describe. Mercury rules the 8th and is in the sign of your/Mars' detriment. One way of interpreting the reception, [which I don't practice, but others do] would suggest that this party does not like you. This party/Merc goes on the conjunct him/Venus very soon after this chart is cast.

I am not be able to tell you anything more except that it appears that the significator of the ill-will from the 8th is closely connected to him/Venus, both in his house using whole sign houses and also soon to conjunct Venus, who receives Mercury well.


PS It probably is worth noting that your significator, Mars, is in the 8th house, so pointing to your being the recipient of ill-fortune in these circumstances.


Sorry I cannot be of more help.

I am wishing you well,
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Unread 05-29-2021, 08:46 PM
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Re: Will he leave her - time limited

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I see! Thank you so much Ilene - that's very helpful and actually points me to a person I had wondered about. It's also very helpful to know where to look for these kinds of things.

I read skyscript a lot; there's so much to learn there, and here.

Thank you ever so much.
Kindest regards
Mila

Very glad to have been some small help.
That old communication thing. Sometimes it can take a long time for us to understand one another. I know it is true for me. So thank you for persisting. I appreciate it.
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Unread 06-03-2021, 03:16 AM
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Re: Will he leave her - time limited

You guys are making it so very complicated. The question is very clear to me, and I believe underlying motivation for the querent is to get into the relationship with this man. This can all be seen here

First of all, He is Venus, dignified, yes combust too, Sun is his secondary significator, placed in sign of Venus, Sun will be ruled by Venus. Sun is his 'manly' side, Venus is his 'intellectual' side. So as a man even if he wanted to be with the querent, his intellectual or the rational side will control any desires he may have. Now is he open to the querent?
Look all his significators are in detriment of Mars, the querent. Venus and Sun are also not anywhere close to the querents part of the chart. This tells me he is not going to give in and not interested in being involved in the way querent wants.
Saturn normally is the existing partner. Saturn is strongly dignified, essentially and accidentally - this shows his partner has the upperhand, in contrast Mars, the querent is weak in everyway in 8th and weak dignity. Venus is applying to Saturn. Saturn collects the light of Venus, Sun and also Mercury. Mercury rules his 2nd and also is the 5th sign from 7th. Does this man have children? The aspect between Venus and Saturn suggests more of a coming together than them separating. I dare say this may mean marriage between them or a more committed partnership. However reception from Venus to Saturn is lacking, so its not affection towards her that drives him. Venus does exalt Moon, so he does want your affection and the emotional support but it doesn't mean he wants to spend his life with you.
Mars, you, is at the end of the sign, you are ready to leave. At the end of the rope. Mars does change signs and ends up in its detriment.

Moon's last aspect was to Jupiter by opposition. I'm not sure what Jup is, but it rules your 5th, or is the 5th sign, Jup is in 4th of family. Did you separate from your children? Or What was the very recent event before this chart? Moon then translates the light of Jup to Mars. Mars recently separated from Jup. Or do you have another man around you, which would be Jupiter.

This chart is very clear, he is staying with her or at the very least, I'm not seeing him and you getting together. He is in fixed sign and in detriment of Mars, so he is there for the longterm.
I'm sorry. Hope you can move on.
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Unread 06-03-2021, 06:23 AM
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Re: Will he leave her - time limited

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Both his and my children are adults, well over 21. What would keep him with her is shared assets. No I didn't leave my children before this chart; in fact nothing in particular happened before this chart. My car broke down... oh, and my son insisted I take a holiday after months of lockdown... he arranged it.
No Jupiter is not holiday or your car. Its probably related to this question, perhaps an ultimatum you gave him? Or your final decision whether to stay or leave. Yes assets they have is the key, Mercury and all his significators in fixed sign. Saturn also in fixed sign. Taurus is normally related to money and possessions, so his significators being there makes sense. Venus feels very much at home in its own sign, his need for material security comes above anything else.

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Unread 06-03-2021, 06:30 AM
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Re: Will he leave her - time limited

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No Jupiter is not holiday or your car. Its probably related to this question, perhaps an ultimatum you gave him? Or your final decision whether to stay or leave. Yes assets they have is the key, Mercury and all his significators in fixed sign. Saturn also in fixed sign. Taurus is normally related to money and possessions, so his significators being there makes sense. Venus feels very much at home in its own sign, his need for material security comes above anything else.
I didn't give him an ultimatum; I didn't decide to stay or leave. Someone hacked my server and sent his partner our chat logs, so he has cut communication with me believing I did it. They also did a lot of other nasty things too, but that happens - it's been dealt with. What hasn't been dealt with is someone sending those chat logs and him feeling I broke his trust and deliberately destroyed his current relationship. I was content with his choice, as long as we stayed friends, as we have been friends for a very long time.
But yes, the way he grew up means security is his top priority. Now I suppose I need to make a chart about whether I will be in touch with him again... :/
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Unread 06-03-2021, 09:43 AM
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Re: Will he leave her - time limited

I see how you get Saturn collecting the light, but they're all squares, and those are not positive or happy squares. They show a lot of conflict. His son is also the primary suspect in hacking my server, and in fact, had already hacked his facebook account to help his mother, so I'd say Jupiter would be his 29 year old son (who has the requisite skills). Venus is also combust; nor does she see Saturn at all, nor does Mercury or the Sun. None of his significators "see" Saturn. Mercury is also combust, so they're all kind of useless here.

At the same time the Sun and the Moon - his co-significator and my co-significator - are in mutual (mixed) reception, by sign/exaltation.

So, respectfully, I have to disagree with you.

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Unread 06-03-2021, 11:53 AM
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I see how you get Saturn collecting the light, but they're all squares, and those are not positive or happy squares. They show a lot of conflict. His son is also the primary suspect in hacking my server, and in fact, had already hacked his facebook account to help his mother, so I'd say Jupiter would be his 29 year old son (who has the requisite skills). Venus is also combust; nor does she see Saturn at all, nor does Mercury or the Sun. None of his significators "see" Saturn. Mercury is also combust, so they're all kind of useless here.

At the same time the Sun and the Moon - his co-significator and my co-significator - are in mutual (mixed) reception, by sign/exaltation.

So, respectfully, I have to disagree with you.
Donít worry Venus sees Saturn very well. Venus is combust in its own sign, Venus disposits Sun. So Venus controls the sun. It acts like mutual reception, or debilitation. Sun tries to harm Venus, but Venus is strong and in full control over sun. Venus doesnít get burned as it would in other signs. Also itís a separating combustion. Venus will gain more and more clarity, and sees Saturn stronger than before.
Iíve given my interpretation, I wonít go any further explaining things to you. You are welcome to not agree. I understand my answer is difficult for you to accept. I do hope Iím wrong and you get your happy ending.

All the best!
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Unread 06-03-2021, 02:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Milarien View Post
What would be a happy ending is getting my friend of 39 years out of this wretched abusive relationship he's in. But I understand you don't get that.

Venus is in it's own sign, combust, exalt the moon, in the triplicity of the moon, term of mercury and face of mercury. It does not see Saturn at all. I think you've read the chart incorrectly. Venus represents him and yes, he will gain more clarity, so will adding in the mutual reception with the moon. Being strong in its own sign, unfortunately, doesn't prevent combustion, although it can go a little way towards adding protection.
Iím reading a chart. I know very little about his situation or what is right or wrong for him. That is for him to judge. My interpretation is of the chart. Iím not saying being in that situation is the right course for him because in all honesty I do not know. All Iím seeing is him staying put.
Please donít ask for people to read your chart and then vehemently disagreeing with everything. You came here wanting a confirmation of him leaving and donít want to hear anything that goes against that belief. Donít ask for chart interpretation if you cannot stomach the truth.
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Unread 06-03-2021, 02:34 PM
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Re: Will he leave her - time limited

Thank you for your delineation here, rafaella. You bring much clarity to the chart, as I also tried to do.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rafaella View Post
You guys are making it so very complicated. The question is very clear to me, and I believe underlying motivation for the querent is to get into the relationship with this man. This can all be seen here
<...>
This chart is very clear, he is staying with her or at the very least, I'm not seeing him and you getting together. He is in fixed sign and in detriment of Mars, so he is there for the longterm.
I'm sorry. Hope you can move on.

Quote:
Originally Posted by IleneK View Post
<...>

What is your interest in his leaving her if not to ask if you will be together?

If you get a yes to "Will he leave her?" and your next question is, "If he leaves her, will you be together?" then *that* is the true underlying question.
If that is the true underlying question, then that is what the practice of horary requires you present here.

And it will be answered here in this chart.
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Last edited by IleneK; 06-03-2021 at 02:38 PM.
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  #24  
Unread 06-03-2021, 02:51 PM
Milarien Milarien is offline
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Re: Will he leave her - time limited

Quote:
Originally Posted by IleneK View Post
Thank you for your delineation here, rafaella. You bring much clarity to the chart, as I also tried to do.
I disagree with that, but each to his own. You've been a marvellous help Ilene and I thank you deeply.

Last edited by Milarien; 06-04-2021 at 09:17 AM.
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Unread 06-03-2021, 04:44 PM
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Re: Will he leave her - time limited

Quote:
Originally Posted by Milarien View Post
I disagree with that, but each to his own. You've been a marvellous help Ilene and I thank you deeply.

What I didn't want to reveal is this is my best friend who is in an extremely abusive relationship with a very nasty woman and I'm trying to get him out, not get into a relationship with him

I use the 7th house for him because I was his first love and he mine, 40 years ago. Those chat logs outline the abuse.

You are welcome, Milarien.

I have carefully read rafaella's delineation and it probably bears being re-read by you. There certainly is no horary analysis that she offers that I can disagree with, and she has penetrated deeply into the chart's meaning.

Since all three of us agree that he is the 7th and returning to your original question of if he will leave her, it looks unlikely that he will.
This other matter of misbehaviour that you relate does not seem to have any bearing on the answer to your original question.

Take care.
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Last edited by IleneK; 06-03-2021 at 06:33 PM.
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