The Part of Capacity of the Mind and the Part of Higher Education

piercethevale

Well-known member
Greetings, ya' all.

I was very busy all through the night with studies and comparative analysis of different natal charts to derive and thus, hopefully, be able to arrive to a conclusion concerning some of the unanswered and some of the uncertainties of those traditional answers that just didn't fit logic or that I intuitively felt were wrong.

The Part of Capacity of Mind, [Asc. + Cusp 3rd - Mercury] is obviously based on Gemini being the traditional sign of the 3rd House and I have no problem with that. My copy of the "Astrologers' Handbook" by Sakoian and Acker have "Communication" listed as an affair of the 3rd House and the "Key phrase for Gemini" as "I Think" [Virgo, the other sign Mercury rules over has the "Key phrase of "! Analyze"...which I know all too well as true as my mother was a Virgo, and my brother and my 'ex' have Virgo rising.]

As I know and my clairvoyant friend and spiritual confidant, nonpareil, Clarisse, has confirmed Uranus as the higher octave of Mercury and Uranus is the Planet that taps into the Universal Mind and provides intuition and when aspected or placed, or both in a very auspicious manner does produce a certain measure of clairvoyance and, or, clairaudience [as I've not yet determined exactly as yet. Clarisse has both attributes... and btw, is also an empath].

So, as I had proposed in the list of Astrological Parts this speculation of mine as to the formula Asc. + Cusp 9th - Uranus, for which I've only ever seen from one source that has it solely listed as the Part of Travel By Air [which is obviously for Horary use] that it may possibly be a Part of Higher Self Knowledge or Intuitive Understanding now seems to be a certainty as I derived Clarisse's Part for both the 3rd House and 9th House, utilized as the 'significator', Parts in question.

As the 9th House , by that same handbook of mine, lists higher education, philosophy, religion and law as the affairs of the 9th House [I'm ignoring the 3rd and 9th House affairs of traveling here as I feel those are more of Horary use] and that the sign associated with the 9th House is Sagittarius which, by Sakoian and Acker, Sag.s' "Key phrase" is "I See" it thus is very obvious to me that the formula utilizing the 9th House and Uranus does produce a Part of 'Higher Intuitive Understanding', that is to say, any clairvoyant proclivity found to be in the natal chart should ultimately be deposited in this Part for the final analysis, or at least as a factor of it.

It was only just now, that as I thought of the 3rd House formula when Uranus is substituted for Mercury and given the role of the 'trigger', to which I was still fuzzy about and was going to briefly give my tentative opinion as to it may be pertaining to a 'Part of Capacity of Intuition', realizing my 'Astrologers Handbook' statements as to the "Key phrase" of Gemini being that of, "I Think", and a 3rd House affair being of "communication", suddenly became clearer, if not entirely clear, to my own intuitive abilities that as to the manner in which one thinks, that is what psychologists refer to as the "internal dialogue" and clairaudience is a form of telepathy, and that is "communication", as in the ability to receive it and comprehend it and, to some, that is occasionally mistaken for part of their own internal dialogue or identified by psychologists and psychiatrists as "hearing voices", [as 'sure a ticket' to a 'section 8' as there is.] aka schizophrenia.

Clarisse's Part derived for the 3rd House as the 'Significator' and Uranus as the 'Trigger' is in the 29th degree of Gemini. So. doe's the Sabian Symbol have anything to do with what one might consider clairaudience?
You tell me.
[ibid.]
[note: the link to the online compilation of Sabian Symbols by Dane Rudhyar has been 'down', offline, for 2 or 3 days now, so I'm just going to cover a part of the text and later on, if and, when it is back 'up', online, I'll post it in its' entirety or I may just try to purchase His book as an e-book and that'll put an end to these situations once and for all. ptv]

"THE FIRST MOCKINGBIRD OF SPRING

KEYNOTE: The creative exuberance of the human soul in reponse to basic life experiences.


The mockingbird is able to imitate the sounds he hears, but actually he does more than imitate, for he weaves all these sounds into melodies which at times can have joyous amplitude and instinctively creative spontaneity. The symbol refers to the capacity [emphasis is my doing. ptv] which the talented individual has to take collective material and transform it under the urge of biological productivity and instinctual love. ...

... what is presented to us symbolically is the reaction of the individual who has become sensitive to many life currents in his environment and who is able to exteriorize this welling up response as a gift to his society, displaying VIRTUOSITY."

...Wow, if that doesn't nail it right on the head of THAT nail...I don't know what does!


What the formula utilizing the 9th House cusp and Uranus produces is the 29th degree of Sagittarius. Yeah! have you all noticed? We have one in Gemini, the natural 3rd House ruler for that of the 3rd House and one for Sagittarius, the natural 9th House ruler. One for thinking, hearing and speaking, i.e. 'communication', from the 29th of Gemini and Gemini is about thinking and communication and one in Sagittarius, the natural 9th House ruler for "seeing."...and you'll find out here ahead that the symbol in Sag. is about "appearances", how one is 'seen to be as'.

The 29th of Sagittarius also happens to be the location of my natal Part of Transformation. That Part was conjuncted three times by transiting Pluto in 2007

The Sabian for the 29th of Sag. is an oddity in my mind as it is [to paraphrase a bit] one of a fat boy mowing a lawn in an elegant suburban neighborhood, but it is between the symbol of the 28th deg. of Sag., which is Yeshu'a's Part of Tragedy and Fatality and the Sabian symbol of "An Old Covered Bridge Over A Beautiful Stream That Is Still In Constant Use", [and I've written a few times on that] that it represents the 'tragedy of Jesus' fatality by Rudhyar's keyword summation as "The Beautiful Necessity" and represents what the Ascended Masters are, that is, those that are the Archetypes, the Avatars, the Bodhisattvas that the spiritually unevolved, the unobtained, need to get across that stream, that the great gurus speak of, that divides us from the Godhead and the symbol for the 30th of Sag. that of the "Pope Blessing The Faithful" and is about keeping and maintaining the core spiritual values common to all but in Danes keyword summation is about "Personalized Worship". So basically what the Sabian Symbol for the 29th of Sag. is about is assuming the exteriorized appearance of one that has a position of social respectability.

I've pointed out that I 'm of the belief, and quite so, that the Part of Transformation is a misnomer in that it should be termed a Part that is of Higher Intuitive Understanding of Oneself, That very same Part of the USA natal chart [zero hour chart, 12:00:01 a.m. July 4, 1776 Philadelphia, Penn.] that Uranus conjuncted on April 15th this year and will conj. twice more very soon.

Upon reviewing the activity of Pluto on my Part of Transformation, in 2005, I realized there is a lot to that story as to what the other Planets were involved in, and the North Node which always provides the answer as to "WHY" of the astrological ephemeral activity for the time, and I will write about that very soon...but I have neglected to get back to my thread on the recent retrograde motion and Final Return of Mercury which culminated yesterday...and that needs to be done post haste...

...whew...! ...and I thought I'd have this post finished a few hours ago...it is now 1 p.m. here in California, I've been up since rising at sunset last night [I've been sleeping days and writing nights as I get more done...less distractions.] so, that may not be today...but soon ...or ....we'll just see what happens.


[and to be honest, this past nights research and effort was set out to expand the thread on the Future King of Great Britain...little did I know, or suspect, that it would develop as it did.]
 
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piercethevale

Well-known member
So, what I'm getting at is that by substituting the Higher Octave of Mercury in those two formulae we then have two different Parts and they seem to indicate along the lines of a Part of Clairaudience and a Part of Clairvoyance.
...although the terminology might be improved and refined somewhat... and that remains to be determined... or I could plan on asking Clarisse and then I can say that, "it remains to be SEEN!":biggrin::lol:
 

Phoenix Venus

Well-known member
Well, PTV, that certainly looks promising. At least, it makes sense from a theoretical perspective. The symbols fit from what i know of your friend though I'd be interesting in seeing whether either of those degrees are highlighted in her chart in any other way. (i know you've posted her chart before, wish i had saved it..)


I wonder what yours are and if they fit as you certainly fit the bill for someone i consider to be an intuitive person.


While i don't consider myself to be particularly "clairvoyant" or "clairaudient", i have had brushes with both abilities, and consider myself to have above average intuition. (at least, whenever i take the myers-briggs test, i usually get over 70% on the "intuitive" category) I like to think that i am very guided by my intuition, especially when dealing with other people.


So let's look mine up and see how they fit.


Asc + 3rd cusp - Uranus = scorpio 9.34
Asc+ 9th cusp - Uranus = taurus 9.34


Well looky there, those exact degrees just happen to be a part of an otherwise prominent opposition in my chart. I just recently made a thread about this opposition, so no reason to repost it all here, just click this:



(well, here are the sab symbols just for quick reference for anyone reading along)

Scorpio 10: A FELLOWSHIP SUPPER REUNITES OLD COMRADES.
KEYNOTE: The overtones of human relationships based on a community of work or experiences.

Taurus 10: A RED CROSS NURSE. KEYNOTE: The compassionate linking of all men.


The symbols def. seem to fit especially when adding in the conjunctions to these parts.


I'd imagine that these parts would be triggered during psychic or prophetic dreams. i have a couple of my own dreams to work with as well as the date of your "Essene" dream ptv, so i will check that out and get back with my findings...
 
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Phoenix Venus

Well-known member
from your essene dream:

transiting sun making a loose conjunction to your natal part of asc+c3-ura (about 3 degree orb)

Transiting uranus is making a novile to your natal part of asc+c3-ura (1.06 orb)

I'm not sure how accurate the time is for this dream, but assuming i used that time based off of some info you gave me, (i have 10:50 am at may 8) let's take a peek at the charts parts as well and see...

I calculate the part of asc+ C3 - ura for the essene chart to be 29.53 sag. (and the asc + c9- ura to be 29.53 gem.)

No major points in the chart are at these degrees, though i should point out that my part of hyleg is 30 sag and your "higher intuitive understanding" is 29 sag. i can't remember if i have anything at 29-30 gem.

oh also,

the venus/mars midpoint as well as the mercury/venus midpoint of the chart are both within a degree conjunction to your natal asc+ c3- ura
 
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Phoenix Venus

Well-known member
hey ptv, I was googling something non-related to the thread (and not related to the topic of the person this post is about, even) when I found your thread @ actastrology about edgar Cayce.

well he would be the perfect person to look at regarding this topic, so I looked up his parts.

his part of asc + c 3 - ura is 10.29 libra, close to his third house cusp (as he has Uranus conj the asc... btw, it's very apparent how influential a planet on the asc is through a look at the parts... when a planet conj. asc triggers a part, it amplifies the significator, due to it's conjunction to it.. and all those parts having the same significator means that they will be similar in some way.. so that planet not only amplifies the asc but all other planets through conjunction to those parts.... geez that must sound rough lol..)

anyway, 11 libra:
A PROFESSOR PEERING OVER HIS GLASSES AT HIS STUDENTS.
KEYNOTE: Problems attending the transmission of knowledge in a special cultural setup.

This is a rather peculiar symbol for this phase of the process, and it reveals a rather humorous approach to what man's mind can accomplish at this stage. However, there seems to be no valid reason to make the image into some kind of a caricature, or to sentimentalize it by referring to a "kind old professor." Rather one should analyze the picture in order to discover its basic elements. The professor has dealt so much with books that he has greatly strained his eyes; in days when bifocal lenses were not widely used, he had to peer over his glasses in order to see his students. The symbol thus simply reveals two aspects of the condition of "professor-ship" — that is, of being able to transfer to the young generation the vast sum of knowledge accumulated by the past. The need to absorb this enormous amount of book knowledge affects the mind as well as the eyes; in order to meet the demands of the turbulent youth, the teacher in a sense has to look above this knowledge and to see his students simply as human beings.
This is the first symbol in the thirty-ninth five-fold sequence. It deals at the intellectual level with the teaching of accumulated collective knowledge, and the problem posed by the acquisition of that knowledge. This is what INSTRUCTION means — a process not to be confused with "education."

his part of asc + c 9 - ura is 11 aries:

THE RULER OF A NATION.
KEYNOTE: The power resulting from the format integration of the collective desire for order.

At this stage of the cyclic process this symbol refers to the appearance of the (personal) ego as the central manifestation of a type of "order" which transcends and seeks to rule the emotional and instinctual drives of the individual person. Actually the ruler at this social-political and mental level of integration is often the one who is being ruled by collective pressures. Nevertheless, a desire for a larger type of integration has now emerged. It is no longer biological-impulsive (Aries 1°) or emotional-personal (Aries 6°), but social-collective and institutional. At this ego level, laws and the restrictive power of a police force are dominant features. Psychologically speaking, this means that the integrative principle is the limited, more or less narrow "I am" realization. It manifests itself as the personal ego exerting its will to control the reactions of the bio-psychic organism.
This is the first stage of the third five-fold sequence of the cyclic
process. It indicates a CENTRALIZATION OF POWER at the level of a rigidly structured consciousness.


while I cannot vouch for the differences of audial/visual preferences, as that seems somewhat personal to the persons desired methods, these symbols DO seem to suggest a dynamic between the ability to process a "cue" and the ability to communicate that which is processed.
 

piercethevale

Well-known member
I was intending to get around to trying these Parts to Cayce's natal chart. I need to confirm that we're on the same page as to what His chart is.


p.s. Yeah, it checks out!
Nice work P.V.
 
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Phoenix Venus

Well-known member
^ yeah, i took the chart straight out of the thread you made on him.

now we just need john edward and miss cleos charts to confirm :lol:
 

princess valhalla

Well-known member
Greetings, ya' all.

I was very busy all through the night with studies and comparative analysis of different natal charts to derive and thus, hopefully, be able to arrive to a conclusion concerning some of the unanswered and some of the uncertainties of those traditional answers that just didn't fit logic or that I intuitively felt were wrong.

The Part of Capacity of Mind, [Asc. + Cusp 3rd - Mercury] is obviously based on Gemini being the traditional sign of the 3rd House and I have no problem with that. My copy of the "Astrologers' Handbook" by Sakoian and Acker have "Communication" listed as an affair of the 3rd House and the "Key phrase for Gemini" as "I Think" [Virgo, the other sign Mercury rules over has the "Key phrase of "! Analyze"...which I know all too well as true as my mother was a Virgo, and my brother and my 'ex' have Virgo rising.]

As I know and my clairvoyant friend and spiritual confidant, nonpareil, Clarisse, has confirmed Uranus as the higher octave of Mercury and Uranus is the Planet that taps into the Universal Mind and provides intuition and when aspected or placed, or both in a very auspicious manner does produce a certain measure of clairvoyance and, or, clairaudience [as I've not yet determined exactly as yet. Clarisse has both attributes... and btw, is also an empath].

So, as I had proposed in the list of Astrological Parts this speculation of mine as to the formula Asc. + Cusp 9th - Uranus, for which I've only ever seen from one source that has it solely listed as the Part of Travel By Air [which is obviously for Horary use] that it may possibly be a Part of Higher Self Knowledge or Intuitive Understanding now seems to be a certainty as I derived Clarisse's Part for both the 3rd House and 9th House, utilized as the 'significator', Parts in question.

As the 9th House , by that same handbook of mine, lists higher education, philosophy, religion and law as the affairs of the 9th House [I'm ignoring the 3rd and 9th House affairs of traveling here as I feel those are more of Horary use] and that the sign associated with the 9th House is Sagittarius which, by Sakoian and Acker, Sag.s' "Key phrase" is "I See" it thus is very obvious to me that the formula utilizing the 9th House and Uranus does produce a Part of 'Higher Intuitive Understanding', that is to say, any clairvoyant proclivity found to be in the natal chart should ultimately be deposited in this Part for the final analysis, or at least as a factor of it.

It was only just now, that as I thought of the 3rd House formula when Uranus is substituted for Mercury and given the role of the 'trigger', to which I was still fuzzy about and was going to briefly give my tentative opinion as to it may be pertaining to a 'Part of Capacity of Intuition', realizing my 'Astrologers Handbook' statements as to the "Key phrase" of Gemini being that of, "I Think", and a 3rd House affair being of "communication", suddenly became clearer, if not entirely clear, to my own intuitive abilities that as to the manner in which one thinks, that is what psychologists refer to as the "internal dialogue" and clairaudience is a form of telepathy, and that is "communication", as in the ability to receive it and comprehend it and, to some, that is occasionally mistaken for part of their own internal dialogue or identified by psychologists and psychiatrists as "hearing voices", [as 'sure a ticket' to a 'section 8' as there is.] aka schizophrenia.

Clarisse's Part derived for the 3rd House as the 'Significator' and Uranus as the 'Trigger' is in the 29th degree of Gemini. So. doe's the Sabian Symbol have anything to do with what one might consider clairaudience?
You tell me.
[ibid.]
[note: the link to the online compilation of Sabian Symbols by Dane Rudhyar has been 'down', offline, for 2 or 3 days now, so I'm just going to cover a part of the text and later on, if and, when it is back 'up', online, I'll post it in its' entirety or I may just try to purchase His book as an e-book and that'll put an end to these situations once and for all. ptv]

"THE FIRST MOCKINGBIRD OF SPRING

KEYNOTE: The creative exuberance of the human soul in reponse to basic life experiences.

The mockingbird is able to imitate the sounds he hears, but actually he does more than imitate, for he weaves all these sounds into melodies which at times can have joyous amplitude and instinctively creative spontaneity. The symbol refers to the capacity [emphasis is my doing. ptv] which the talented individual has to take collective material and transform it under the urge of biological productivity and instinctual love. ...

... what is presented to us symbolically is the reaction of the individual who has become sensitive to many life currents in his environment and who is able to exteriorize this welling up response as a gift to his society, displaying VIRTUOSITY."

...Wow, if that doesn't nail it right on the head of THAT nail...I don't know what does!


What the formula utilizing the 9th House cusp and Uranus produces is the 29th degree of Sagittarius. Yeah! have you all noticed? We have one in Gemini, the natural 3rd House ruler for that of the 3rd House and one for Sagittarius, the natural 9th House ruler. One for thinking, hearing and speaking, i.e. 'communication', from the 29th of Gemini and Gemini is about thinking and communication and one in Sagittarius, the natural 9th House ruler for "seeing."...and you'll find out here ahead that the symbol in Sag. is about "appearances", how one is 'seen to be as'.

The 29th of Sagittarius also happens to be the location of my natal Part of Transformation. That Part was conjuncted three times by transiting Pluto in 2007

The Sabian for the 29th of Sag. is an oddity in my mind as it is [to paraphrase a bit] one of a fat boy mowing a lawn in an elegant suburban neighborhood, but it is between the symbol of the 28th deg. of Sag., which is Yeshu'a's Part of Tragedy and Fatality and the Sabian symbol of "An Old Covered Bridge Over A Beautiful Stream That Is Still In Constant Use", [and I've written a few times on that] that it represents the 'tragedy of Jesus' fatality by Rudhyar's keyword summation as "The Beautiful Necessity" and represents what the Ascended Masters are, that is, those that are the Archetypes, the Avatars, the Bodhisattvas that the spiritually unevolved, the unobtained, need to get across that stream, that the great gurus speak of, that divides us from the Godhead and the symbol for the 30th of Sag. that of the "Pope Blessing The Faithful" and is about keeping and maintaining the core spiritual values common to all but in Danes keyword summation is about "Personalized Worship". So basically what the Sabian Symbol for the 29th of Sag. is about is assuming the exteriorized appearance of one that has a position of social respectability.

I've pointed out that I 'm of the belief, and quite so, that the Part of Transformation is a misnomer in that it should be termed a Part that is of Higher Intuitive Understanding of Oneself, That very same Part of the USA natal chart [zero hour chart, 12:00:01 a.m. July 4, 1776 Philadelphia, Penn.] that Uranus conjuncted on April 15th this year and will conj. twice more very soon.

Upon reviewing the activity of Pluto on my Part of Transformation, in 2005, I realized there is a lot to that story as to what the other Planets were involved in, and the North Node which always provides the answer as to "WHY" of the astrological ephemeral activity for the time, and I will write about that very soon...but I have neglected to get back to my thread on the recent retrograde motion and Final Return of Mercury which culminated yesterday...and that needs to be done post haste...

...whew...! ...and I thought I'd have this post finished a few hours ago...it is now 1 p.m. here in California, I've been up since rising at sunset last night [I've been sleeping days and writing nights as I get more done...less distractions.] so, that may not be today...but soon ...or ....we'll just see what happens.


[and to be honest, this past nights research and effort was set out to expand the thread on the Future King of Great Britain...little did I know, or suspect, that it would develop as it did.]



Interesting! I would think that those formulas have to do with communication (of all forms!) and maybe genius or originality? Kind of a bare bones idea but I think it fits in with what you already proposed.

Mine come to:

asc + C3 - Uranus = 11.18 Capricorn

"Capricorn 12:
A student of nature lecturing revealing little-known aspects of life."


asc + C9 - Uranus = 11.18 Cancer

"Cancer 12: A Chinese woman nursing a baby whose aura reveals him to be the reincarnation of a great teacher."

Since the mindfire website is down I got the symbols from Lynda Hill's website. I'm still not certain what those symbols specifically imply however.
 

piercethevale

Well-known member
Interesting! I would think that those formulas have to do with communication (of all forms!) and maybe genius or originality? Kind of a bare bones idea but I think it fits in with what you already proposed.

Mine come to:

asc + C3 - Uranus = 11.18 Capricorn

"Capricorn 12:
A student of nature lecturing revealing little-known aspects of life."


asc + C9 - Uranus = 11.18 Cancer

"Cancer 12: A Chinese woman nursing a baby whose aura reveals him to be the reincarnation of a great teacher."

Since the mindfire website is down I got the symbols from Lynda Hill's website. I'm still not certain what those symbols specifically imply however.
I apologize for being so long as to getting back to this thread. I had just finished reading Phoenix Venus' replies to my post from yesterday in the Astrological Parts List thread as to which Parts we all covered recently that we had come up with possible new titles for a couple or three Parts and was going to review[I still am...] those threads she indicated but noticing this thread and remembering that we had made some progress with these two particularly obscure ones I figured I ought to review this thread also.

I must say that your own particular placement of the 3rd House Cusp - Uranus Part [which I've never seen any one recognize it much less speak or write about it or the possibility of a Part derived from such a formula. But as I have seen it for the 9th house Cusp and for the reason that there are two for Mercury for the two cusps there then would also be one for Uranus as to the 3rd House]produces a Sabian Symbol that falls right in line with the 'tenor' of the symbols derived for Edgar Cayce's Part, Clarisse's, and Phoenix Venus' [as Hers' is about a groups collective remembrance of a shared past with one another.] are all symbolic of communication.

My Part utilizing the 3rd House and Mercury calculates to be @ 08* :leo: 57', the 9th degree of Leo.
[ibid.]

"GLASS BLOWERS SHAPE BEAUTIFUL VASES WITH THEIR CONTROLLED BREATHING.

KEYNOTE: The need to involve one's most spiritual and vital energies in the creative act' if it is to produce significant and beautiful new forms.


Well, that also happens to be my Part of Noble & Illustrious Acquaintances [those that I deem so as]

The Cusp of the 9th House - Mercury. i.e. the Part of Higher Education is at 08* :aquarius: 57' ...which happens to be my Hermetic Lot of Courage
[ibid.]
"BEAUTIFULLY GOWNED WAX FIGURES ON DISPLAY.

KEYNOTE: The inspiration one may derive from the appearance of Exemplars who present to us the archetypes of a new culture.


From my chart that I am convinced is the natal chart of Yeshu'a/Jesus of Nazareth, I got for... [...and these blew my mind, they are so appropriate]
Asc. + C3 - Mercury = 28* :aries: 23'
[ibid.]
"THE MUSIC OF THE SPHERES.

KEYNOTE: Attunement to cosmic order.
"


Asc. + C9 - Mercury = 28* :libra: 23'
[ibid.]
"MANKIND'S VAST AND ENDURING EFFORT TO REACH FOR KNOWLEDGE TRANSFERABLE FROM GENERATION TO GENERATION.

KEYNOTE: A deep sense of participation in, and commitment to, social processes which seek to bring to all men Truth and a greater Life."

For my Part utilizing Uranus in place of Mercury, I got
for the
Asc. + C3 - Uranus = 21* :taurus: 35'
[ibid.]
"WHITE DOVE FLYING OVER TROUBLED WATERS.

KEYNOTE: The spiritual inspiration that comes to the individual in the overcoming of crisis
."

Asc. + C9 - Uranus = 21* :scorpio: 35"
[and note that his latter Part is only presently known as Part of Travels by Air]
[ibid.]

"HUNTERS SHOOTING WILD DUCKS.

KEYNOTE: The socially accepted release of an individual's or a group's aggressive instincts.
"


Now for the Yeshu'a chart ... until this evening I had never calculated any of these for either my self or the "Yeshu'a/Jesus chart". I was stunned to find out they are the same as mine...go figure.

Asc. + C3 - Uranus = 21* :taurus: 17'

Asc. + C9 - Uranus = 21* :scorpio: 17'



... Well, I no longer believe so strongly that these Cusp and Uranus Parts have anything to do with Clairvoyance and Clairaudience, but I know we'll figure them out eventually... I was going to do more tonight but it is past 1 a.m. ...[man, time just flies when I get on the computer]. I 'll get to adding the adjustments to the List of Astrological Parts thread either tomorrow or later in the week...I'm still trying to get away for a few days...take a last trip to the coast... the prognosis for the Fukushima cleanup looking as bleak as it is...this will most very likely be my last chance to visit... in fact, a few of us here in these parts think the gov't might be readying for an evacuation or martial law and crowd control. I'm probably...most very likely going to move to the east coast somewhere's in the next month... get out of here before disaster really strikes and get herded into a FEMA camp in the Nevada desert. [or the Rocky Mts. I prefer the high altitudes....or if it becomes the nightmare that a few are predicting... I might try Madagascar... What was that book called some years back...oh yeah, "Stand On Zanzibar" ...look that up and see what you find out about the meaning of the title ...it may come to that!]
 
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piercethevale

Well-known member
...and Phoenix V. if you read these last two posts...you'll probably notice as I just now did that my Part involving the cusp of the 3rd House and Mercury being that same degree as my Part of Noble & Illus. Acquaint. and it being said to be a Part of Capacity of Mind and that my Part derived from the reverse formula for the Part Of Noble & Illus. Acq. being what we have determined to date to symbolically represent those that deem yourself to be a Noble & Illus. Acquaint. being the 26th of Aquar. and being about as to the "Keynote"[ibid.] "Skill in applying knowledge of natural laws to the solution of everyday problems resulting from life in our technological society. "

there's a mutual intellectual tenor going on here... Capacity of the Mind...INDEED!


p.s. not to mention that my Part for the C9 - Merc. produced a symbol that is of Noble & Illustrious 'Exemplars',
 
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Phoenix Venus

Well-known member
phew, ptv... you really do have a mind on you :p I don't even know what to make of that... it def does seem to do with communication of some sort... (btw, for sake of ease you could always refer to me as phv if you wish...)


it'll just take some time, i have faith that we'll eventually figure it out. (if we weren't on the right track regarding the parts, there wouldn't be all this noise in this section of the forum right now... )


Btw, i see why you mentioned the pluto/merc thing in relation to "memory of past life".... and when i wrote before the idea that one might deal with gaining insights, and the other would deal with communicating that insight to others... well i might be wrong but i think it is a good place to start...


so just running with that theme it might look like this:


asc + c3 - ura: communication of spiritual insights
asc + c9 - ura: spiritual insights
asc + c3 - merc: communication of logical insights
asc + c9 - merc: logical insights


Granted, I'm sure this isn't exactly it... but maybe a good starting point...



Here are mine with merc as the trigger:


Asc + C3 - merc: Sag 21.14
A CHINESE LAUNDRY.
KEYNOTE: Making use of one’s special racial-cultural background in order to survive and prosper in an alien environment.

What is asked here is SELF-CONTAINMENT…and good humour!

(hehehehe... i'm finding this symbol actually to be quite humorous... and man, something appropriate just happened regarding this symbol that i will not get into here.. just a slight note that maybe we are headed in the right direction concerning these parts....)

Asc + c9 - merc: Gemini 21.14

DANCING COUPLES IN A HARVEST FESTIVAL.

KEYNOTE: The wholesome enjoyment of organic processes and emotional drives.
It stresses the value of rhythmic, healthful activity in a natural setup, for this leads to an often much needed process of BIOENERGETIC REBUILDING.

 

Phoenix Venus

Well-known member
though i might be slightly off track regarding logical/spiritual..... hmmmm...... Yeshua's (and ptvs for that matter) symbol for 3c-ura DOES mention pretty precicely "spiritual inspiration".....

maybe it is..... outside inspiration vrs. internal instincts!

so something like this:

asc + c3 - ura: expression/communication of external mental inspiration
asc + c9 - ura: awareness of external mental inspiration
asc + c3 - merc: expression/communication of internal mental instincts
asc + c9 - merc: awareness of internal mental instincts


And possibly we have to reverse these around so that 9th deals with inspiration and 3rd deals with instincts... (Rather than merc/ura)


PTV, you have a much more firm grip on how the triggers and the activators work... so maybe you can see it more clearly in regards to that
 
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princess valhalla

Well-known member
Now for the Yeshu'a chart ... until this evening I had never calculated any of these for either my self or the "Yeshu'a/Jesus chart". I was stunned to find out they are the same as mine...go figure.

Asc. + C3 - Uranus = 21* :taurus: 17'

Asc. + C9 - Uranus = 21* :scorpio: 17'



QUOTE]

Sorry, there are so many things to address in this post! But the first thing that popped out to me is that those parts that you and yeshua share are conjunct my asc/desc by 1 degree.

My asc = 22.18 Taurus
My desc = 22.18 Scorpio
 

Phoenix Venus

Well-known member
Hi PV! Yes that certainly is interesting..... seeing as how the ac/dc is the who- to -whom to..... i see that as a good sign that spiritual types of communication can lead you to the descendant that you are destined to become.... (and i find it kinda funny that you post that right as i become available to start typing up this post...)


I was reading a bit of David Icke's book this morning, and I noticed some very strange & synchronistic answers to some specific situations i've been involved in in the past 2 days... and well.. i won't get into the details... but this happened to be on the same "page" (by that i really mean 2 consecutive pages that were open up).... and... yeah it might seem a little weird and again i can't go too into detail... but just trust me in that... i have good reason to think this quote from him is appropriate in relation to this thread.....


I still haven't really gotten it figured out... but maybe puting this up will help....



From page 607 of David Icke's "Human Race Get Off Your Knees: The Lion Sleeps No More" :


"Albert Einstein said 'You cannot solve problems with the same level of consiousness that created them.' He was right and yet that's what we do. We use Mind to respond to problems caused by Mind.

Plato said ' When the mind is thinking, it is talking to itself.'

We have to go beyond Mind and into Consiousness where we can feel the answers and know what we each can and must do if we want this nightmare to end. We need to access levels of awareness that can perceive beyond the illusory holographic play-out realm of dense form.

It is not that we have to go anywhere to make this connection; it is already part of us, at one with us. We need to remove the mental, emotional, and vibrational barriers that prevent us from 'hearing' and feeling those expanded levels of our awareness. These barriers are Mind, in a closed-circuit, 'loopy' state, and they hold us in five-sense perception where we are isolated from consiousness - the manipulators clump of virgin clay to make of whatever they want by programming the blueprint in the Metaphysical Universe.

Mind, especially left-brained mind, deals in structue, hierarchy and rigid beleif. These are body/mind realities and they must cease to dictate human perception of self and world. This is how we got into this state and it is certainly not going to get us out of it - 'you cannot solve problems with the same level of coniousness that created them.'

Rigid belief has to go for a start...religious beleif, political belief, racial belief, cultural belief, self-identity belief. We are being asked to transform our entire sense of reality from the small to the All; from 'little me' to the All That Is; from Mind to Consiousness."

(lines added by me for easier reading)

hmmmm...... mind/consiousness..... what an interesting dynamic to read about while focusing on a thread titled.... "capacity of the mind".....

(oh and as a quick note to ptv... don't you find it funny that this book focuses on the "MOON MATRIX?")
 
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princess valhalla

Well-known member
Hi PV! Yes that certainly is interesting..... seeing as how the ac/dc is the who- to -whom to..... i see that as a good sign that spiritual types of communication can lead you to the descendant that you are destined to become....



I was reading a bit of David Icke's book this morning, and I noticed some very strange & synchronistic answers to some specific situations i've been involved in in the past 2 days... and well.. i won't get into the details... but this happened to be on the same "page" (by that i really mean 2 consecutive pages that were open up).... and... yeah it might seem a little weird and again i can't go too into detail... but just trust me in that... i have good reason to think this quote from him is appropriate in relation to this thread.....



I still haven't really gotten it figured out... but maybe puting this up will help....


From page 607 of David Icke's "Human Race Get Off Your Knees: The Lion Sleeps No More" :


"Albert Einstein said 'You cannot solve problems with the same level of consiousness that created them.' He was right and yet that's what we do. We use Mind to respond to problems caused by Mind.

Plato said ' When the mind is thinking, it is talking to itself.'

We have to go beyond Mind and into Consiousness where we can feel the answers and know what we each can and must do if we want this nightmare to end. We need to access levels of awareness that can perceive beyond the illusory holographic play-out realm of dense form.

It is not that we have to go anywhere to make this connection; it is already part of us, at one with us. We need to remove the mental, emotional, and vibrational barriers that prevent us from 'hearing' and feeling those expanded levels of our awareness. These barriers are Mind, in a closed-circuit, 'loopy' state, and the hold us in five sense perception where we are isolated from consiousness - the manipulators clump of virgin clay to make of whatever they want by programming the blueprint in the Metaphysical Universe.

Mind, especially left-brained mind, deals in structue, hierarchy and rigid beleif. These are body/mind realities and the must cease to dictate human perception of self and world. This is how we got into this state and it is certainly not going to get us out of it - 'you cannot solve problems with the same level of coniousness that created them.'

Rigid belief has to go for a start...religious beleif, political belief, racial belief, cultural belief, self-identity belief. We are being asked to transform our entire sense of reality from the small to the All; from 'little me' to the All That Is; from Mind to Consiousness."

(lines added by me for easier reading)

hmmmm...... mind/consiousness..... what an interesting dynamic to note for a thread titled.... "capacity of the mind".....


Wow! I will have to re-read your post but I am def. intrigued! I will be on later this evening. Carry on and rock on! :wink:
 

piercethevale

Well-known member
Well, my hangup is that I've never been able to resolve, to my own satisfaction [but not in a selfish way. I'm referring to what can be understood to be logical.] the issue of planetary ruler-ship of the Houses and, as of the last five years, the assignation of Aries as being of the domain of the first House.

The relatively recent revelation that a spiritually interpreted natal chart [or 'spiritually applied'...as that may be the best way to describe the concept] necessitates a process of unfoldment to the other direction, that is to say in the clockwise direction from the Asc., may just also necessitate both, the establishing of the Houses, and also the hierarchy of the procession of the Houses. [and it has to be understood that we are not really "establishing" anything other than an understanding, as all we are really dealing with here is knowledge. We aren't really changing anything...other than what's in our minds...that is to say what we've been led to believe]

Yet, I've not gone entirely astray by being taught astrology initially from traditional Occidental beliefs...but that is very likely only a portion of the total of "the picture" Best I can convey as to what I'm getting at here, is alike to having one half of the precept, Yin-Yang. In that, Yeah, it is valid and of the truth, but only a potion of all that one needs to be knowledgeable and for that knowledge to be of any use. My friend, and fellow yogi, Suryakant told me a few years ago as to why the library at Alexandria was burnt to the ground. Suryakant told me that only men were allowed to be the librarians and that only men were allowed access to the what it held inside. The discovery that a woman had gotten inside one day gave cause to burn it all to the ground for reason of suspicion and concurrent opinion that the woman was allegiant to Luciferian causes and was up to no good and may have corrupted some item of knowledge within its' walls. That the suspicion of even just one line in a massive volume of truth had so been corrupted was reason enough to destroy it all.[at least it was His belief as to why at that time which I'm pretty sure this is something He had been told and given cause to believe was factual truth.

I have since learned of Edgar Cayce's accounting of it and Cayce's explanation is entirely different. But as there was more than one fire over the centuries [according to Cayce and at least one historian...but could just as well be many historians. I'm not that knowledgeable of the history of the "Library"] it may be that a section of the library had been set afire and destroyed for that very reason Suryakant gave in explanation.

Having utilized these two Parts' formulae for the Part Of Capacity of the Mind and the Part Of Higher Education to the Yeshu'a natal chart to just have a look-see as to what might be derived from them has really given cause to give some serious consideration to the validity of these unusual formulae and gave me both quite a thrill and ensuing optimism and some pleasure in knowing that because the symbols are so pointedly direct as to the Man and the legend of who He was and the nature of the concept of the title for the Part but also so symbolically obvious even though it is esoteric because it yet remained symbolically something quite less than what might otherwise be considered occult...by which i mean to hard to understand or obscure for most to have to decipher.

I mean...

...just look at the symbolism for Yeshu'a's Part of Capacity of the Mind:

Aries 29* [ibid.]

"THE MUSIC OF THE SPHERES.
KEYNOTE: Attunement to cosmic order
."

Which is demonstrating a mental capacity nonpareil, or nearly so, ...as there seems to be someone that comes along once every few generations or so that has given some demonstration of evidence of possibly having that magnitude of a mental capacity.

Now take a look at what was derived for Yeshu'a's Part of Higher Education:

Taurus 22* [ibid.]

"MANKIND'S VAST AND ENDURING EFFORT TO REACH FOR KNOWLEDGE TRANSFERABLE FROM GENERATION TO GENERATION.

KEYNOTE: A deep sense of participation in, and commitment to, social processes which seek to bring to all men Truth and a greater Life
.
"

As that symbolically both illustrates and demonstrates exactly what most ernest Biblical historians have come to know and have so stated that which was the core of Yeshu'a's teachings to his disciples and for the very reason why.
It also goes hand-in-hand with what has been derived for His Part of Destiny and gives an enormous amount of corroboration to the cause for acknowledgement of the veracity of the chart actually being the natal chart and mutual validation as to Astrological Parts being symbolically active and the veracity of the Sabian Symbols themselves ....which I will demonstrate by providing the Sabian Symbol for that charts Part of Destiny which is at 13* :capricorn: 31' 17, i.e. Capricorn 14* [ibid.]

"AN ANCIENT BAS-RELIEF CARVED IN GRANITE REMAINS A WITNESS TO A LONG-FORGOTTEN CULTURE.
KEYNOTE: The will to unearth, in our culture as well as in any culture, what has permanent value, and to let go of nonessential
s.

At a time when in nearly every land men are questioning and challenging the validity of traditional beliefs and customary attitudes, it becomes necessary to separate permanent values and great principles or symbols from the many individual habits and the socio-political developments which more often than not have perverted or even negated the original ideals of the culture. We must strive to free these ideals from the wild growth of personal and class selfishness, from the greed and ambition so prevalent in human nature, and learn to appreciate the excellence of what is the immortal seed-foundation, as well as the spiritual harvest, of any culture — and by extension of every sustained and complete work produced by a man's indomitable effort to achieve creative perfection.
In this fourth stage symbol we are shown the procedure which enables us to gain a deep and thorough appreciation of socio-cultural processes in their most enduring forms. What is needed is a penetrating and courageous insight founded upon a valid HISTORICAL PERSPECTIVE. This applies to the past of an individual's life as well as to the history of a nation or a group."

I wanted to continue on with some thoughts and what led to another [yet another, that is] proposal of a tenative conclusion, but yet again, I've worn myself out today from tying to deal with my personal life and give adequate time to my astrological endeavors and writing at this forum.... so, I'll just get right to the point and let you all noodle with it... particulary the Phoenix and Princess V's.

Last night I had a thought that when substituting Uranus for Mercury what We might be confronted with is the higher octave of intelligence.
...Wisdom{?}
 

Phoenix Venus

Well-known member
ahhhhh without even reading that whole post i'm already tickled half to death...

wisdom/consiousness.... ?

"same page different paragraph" ....?

(now let me stop getting ahead of myself and go back and actually read what you wrote maybe while you are reading what i wrote lmao)

:whistling::wink::biggrin:
 

piercethevale

Well-known member
Now for the Yeshu'a chart ... until this evening I had never calculated any of these for either my self or the "Yeshu'a/Jesus chart". I was stunned to find out they are the same as mine...go figure.

Asc. + C3 - Uranus = 21* :taurus: 17'

Asc. + C9 - Uranus = 21* :scorpio: 17'



QUOTE]

Sorry, there are so many things to address in this post! But the first thing that popped out to me is that those parts that you and yeshua share are conjunct my asc/desc by 1 degree.

My asc = 22.18 Taurus
My desc = 22.18 Scorpio

...seems to be a pattern that is beyond consideration as to it being just a coincidence, doesn't it:wink: now?

...and my natal Mercury at 27* :aries: 57' is within a half of a degree conjunction to the Part of the Capacity of the Mind derived from the Yeshu'a chart, which if I may remind all, is at 28* :aries: 23'

Which, QUITE HONESTLY AND MOST SINCERELY, I don't like mentioning this as I truly wish I had never had it brought to my attention but seeing as how it was and I, rather stupidly, made it public that I'm allegedly the re-incarnation of one that is notoriously the most vilified 'Betrayer' of all time...that a few from the 'Gnostic camp' have in a distant past and now recently once again are surmising may have been the only member of a band of 13 that truly understood His teachings...
This matter of the proposed Part utilizing Uranus in place of Mercury and my natal Mercury being in such conjunction to His Part of Capacity of mind... well...

Do I have to say it?
 
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piercethevale

Well-known member
ahhhhh without even reading that whole post i'm already tickled half to death...

wisdom/consiousness.... ?

"same page different paragraph" ....?

(now let me stop getting ahead of myself and go back and actually read what you wrote maybe while you are reading what i wrote lmao)

:whistling::wink::biggrin:

I skim read it...I am exhausted, truly am... but, now, I have to go dig up a quote I used at the actastrology forum to go hand in hand with that... or a hand off...something like that...post it...and then I have to shut this electronic contraption off and go stare at a river for awhile or watch the squirrels play mumblety peg or something like that...
 

piercethevale

Well-known member
Here it is:

Dane Rudhyar wrote:


....excerpt from the 'Rudhyar Archival Project', "Uranus Versus Saturn, the Value of Inconsistency"..

"When we say of a person bringing up an argument to prove a point that he is "consistent," we mean that his speech reveals a continuous sequence of known causes and expected results, of accepted premises and rational deductions. The continuity of his thinking is evident, and the arguments are contained within the framework of a well-tested logic. The trouble with such a procedure, however, is that it produces only results of the same order as the experiences which originally helped to devise the procedure. In a very real sense, the nature and quality of one's search condition in advance what one will find. If we use Saturnian means to solve a problem, the solution will not leave the realm of Saturn. Likewise, all the discoveries of modern science are conditioned by the scientific methods and quantitative techniques used in the process of discovery. The universe we see today is the universe as our "scientific" mind allows us to see it. It assuredly is not the universe in all its reality! It is the universe seen through the Saturnian consistency of our logical ways of thinking."
 
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