Was there abuse as a child ?

Chrysalis said:

I need some clarification on this as its such a delicate matter. Someone's asked me to do a chart as... (not going into detail) they have a gut feeling they were abused by their grandfather at a young age.

Im thinking its a YES and this is why....

Saturn/grandfather in 12th same degrees as venus moon's dispositor, moon in 5th, is 5th representing childhood here ?
Querent/jupiter is in 9th/grandchild 5th from 5th.

Ok let me stop here as im getting confused, im not 100% clear as to why moons in 5th ?

Can someone help me out here why moons in 5th house ?

And her mothers mars isn't she mars/venus with a moon TOL, so i need to know what venus is representing here L5 ?

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IleneK said:

I'm having a little difficulty underestanding some of your significations, so would it be okay if I asked you a few questions to get on the same page as you?
I see Jup is querent. Would you mind to share with me how you determined Saturn is grandfather. It is a maternal or paternal grandfather?

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Chrysalis said:

Its mums father which would make him 4th from 10th (jupiter) but as querents already jupiter im using Saturn.

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IleneK said:

Yes, I saw what you observed when using whole signs; it doesn't clarify the matter.
Okay, well, I think in an instance where querent and quesited have the same dispositor, then traditional horary employs the almuten for the quesited's house.
For such a very sensitive question, it would seem to be crucial to have the correct significator for the grandfather?

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Chrysalis said:

How do i work out the almuten ?

But Saturn is the natural planetary ruler to signify older males, and dont you think its significant that saturns at the exact degree/min as moons dispositor venus ? these are all reasons why i was so sure of him being Saturn.

But yes its a very sensitive chart so getting the correct significators is crucial to the correct delineation...so can you help me work out the almuten ?

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IleneK said:

I wish I could help with determining the almuten, but I don't recall how to do it. Maybe another member more skilled will know or can recommend another alternative?

And, as neat the positional relationship between Saturn and the Moon's significator may be, I dont' see what role Moon's significator has in this question? Neither Moon's significator nor Saturn are actors in this chart's story.

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IleneK said:

I wish I could help with determining the almuten, but I don't recall how to do it. Maybe another member more skilled will know or can recommend another alternative?

And, as neat the positional relationship between Saturn and the Moon's significator may be, I dont' see what role Moon's significator has in this question? Neither Moon's significator nor Saturn are actors in this chart's story.

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tikana said:

Chrys

almutens can be stronger than lords of the house.. I'd be paying attention to them esp if they are essentially stronger.. because they can flip an answer from yes to no and vice versa

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rafaella said:

Almuten - planet with most essential dignity in that specific degree. You have Sag rising at 27.54. Day chart. Look at table of essiential dignities and work it out. Each planet at that degree gets points. Jupiter as sign ruler gets 5 points, exaltation if there is one gets 4, 3 for triplicity, 2 for term, 1 for face. Planet with most points is almuten. Looks like Jupiter is Almuten.

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Chrysalis said:

Oh actually looking at my table if im doing this correctly.....sag rising 27.54.

Saturn in the table is in up to 25 degree term and in 20-30 degree face. But then thats only 3 points....so it does look like it would be jupiter like you say.

But this can't work as querents jupiter.

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tikana said:

i have my doubts

here is why

jup and saturn are in mr sort of speak

jup is dignified

my answer is no

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rafaella said:

No we look at essential dignity for the ASC degree, 27.54 Sag and which planets get most points for that degree in day chart. Saturn gets 1 point, as it has dignity by face only.

But Saturn can used as the grandpa, I guess. Mutual reception suggests great regard for each other, is that so? Saturn has squares with Mars/Venus which rule the 4/10th houses, the family houses. Does this grandpa have issues with the family members? we can get confirmation on what w see from the chart, then we can use Saturn with more confidence.

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Personally though, I wouldn't want to answer this question, just don't want to open a can of worms...

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Chrysalis said:

No way do i want this to be a yes btw, as much as im saying its a yes.....but Jupiters in a pitted degree here and with the mutual reception between saturn/jup, this i thought as being the yes.

If we are using saturn, he's in the 12th, isnt this another another sign ?

Saturn squares venus L5 "exactly" (children) house where moon is....its her childhood were asking about.

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