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david starling

Well-known member
Seems like comprehension, reading and writing are more important than speaking ability when learning the customary language.

Especially with Spanish, because once you know how to read and write Spanish, the rules for pronunciation are fairly consistent, unlike English. Rolling the rrs and pronouncing "v" almost like "b" are secondary considerations.

A lot of immigrants come here already having learned a great deal of English in their native country.
 
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waybread

waybread

Well-known member
David, eastern Canada was a French colony prior to British settlement. The main francophone population is in Quebec, where French is the official language. New Brunswick is officially bilingual, then there are French-speaking enclaves in other parts of the country. Today about 20% of Canadians claim French as their first language, and the language spoken at home.

Both francophone and anglophone children study both French and English in school.
 
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david starling

Well-known member
waybread said:
David, eastern Canada was a French colony prior to British settlement. The main francophone population is in Quebec, where French is the official language. New Brunswick is officially bilingual, then there are French-speaking enclaves in other parts of the country. Today about 20% of Canadians claim French as their first language, and the language spoken at home.

Both francophone and anglophone children study both French and English in school.
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So, "Official", rather than "customary"? I'll squeeze in another question: Are French Canadians under "Napoleonic Law"? Meaning, are there differences in the law between the English-speaking and French-speaking regions?
 
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aquarius7000

aquarius7000

Well-known member
david starling said:
Most U.S. Americans are pretty casual about how words should be pronounced. As long as it's easy to understand what someone is saying, that's good enough.

In contrast, I've noticed that people who speak languages other than American English are very picky about pronunciation in their own native language.
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Not sure that is completely true. The UK is quite open as to the accent/ pronunciation part. That said, I have seen a wider acceptance with white-skinned folks with different accents (like Germans or Italians speaking English) than with a Chinese confusing their R and L, or Nigerians having their own way of pronouncing words.
In the US, it depends also. There are both kinds of people. There are people that will scoff at others because they pronounce certain words differently.

In fact, about 2-3 yrs back, I read an article how some call centres in India gave training to Indians to roll their 'R's in the way the American ear was used to, so as to be able to 'impress' the caller.
 
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Dirius

Dirius

Well-known member
Osamenor said:
Geographically, yes. Culturally, no. I was taught that in the Spanish speaking world, Norteamerica means the U.S. and Canada. The English speaking north.
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It really varies from either common dialect to official language.

Like the official abbreviation for the U.S. is "EEUU" (I think the double letters might be to diferentiate from the EU). Also "norteamericanos" is really like a formal term, very rarely used in common slang.

In west argentina/north west, the Cuyo region, you are refered as "gringos" (like they do in Chile or Peru).

In the rioplatense region and Patagonia you are popularly called "yankis" in common slang, or "estadounidenses" in formal talk.

Although in Buenos Aires yankis is the most common term.

Canadians are just canadienses.
 
Osamenor

Osamenor

Staff member
david starling said:
In the U.S., Louisiana is the only State with a "Napoleonic" civil code. That means you're presumed guilty until you prove you're innocent!
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And here's a fun fact: Louisiana's official language was French until 1921.

As far as I know, Quebec is under the same law as the rest of Canada, which is not Napoleonic code. Criminal defendants are still legally innocent until proven guilty.

Even in Louisiana, Napoleonic code only applies to civil law, not criminal law. In criminal cases, they're required to follow the U.S. constitution, which mandates trial by jury and considering the accused innocent until proven guilty. The constitution does not have such strict provisions for civil cases, so states have more leeway there. The main difference is that in Louisiana, civil suits do not have to be tried by a jury, while in other states they do.
 
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david starling

Well-known member
Osamenor said:
And here's a fun fact: Louisiana's official language was French until 1921.

As far as I know, Quebec is under the same law as the rest of Canada, which is not Napoleonic code. Criminal defendants are still legally innocent until proven guilty.

Even in Louisiana, Napoleonic code only applies to civil law, not criminal law. In criminal cases, they're required to follow the U.S. constitution, which mandates trial by jury and considering the accused innocent until proven guilty. The constitution does not have such strict provisions for civil cases, so states have more leeway there. The main difference is that in Louisiana, civil suits do not have to be tried by a jury, while in other states they do.
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Good to know!
 
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david starling

Well-known member
wan said:
How do you figure this, Dave?
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You have to know what someone is saying or writing before you can answer. You have to be able to read the rules that are posted and know just what it is you're signing. Or, you could just hire a translator!

Spoken language is usually too fast, too slurred, and too idiomatic to be comprehended by someone unfamiliar with it. That's a whole different problem.
 
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david starling

Well-known member
waybread said:
David, https://www.justice.gc.ca/eng/csj-sjc/just/03.html

French is definitely the official language of Quebec. (Correctly spelled Québec.) Also, Canadian federal government communications are in both languages, as well as product packaging.

Louisiana French, unfortunately is a dwindling language.
https://www.justice.gc.ca/eng/csj-sjc/just/03.html
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Yeah, those pesky accent-marks. Like German has its umlauts.

I remember reading years ago that Quebec had removed all street signs in English and replaced them with French nomenclature.
 
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david starling

Well-known member
In Spanish, you've GOT to be able to roll those rrs. Otherwise, saying in Spanish that you're going out to walk your dog would sound like you're going out to walk your but!
 
aquarius7000

aquarius7000

Well-known member
david starling said:
In Spanish, you've GOT to be able to roll those rrs. Otherwise, saying in Spanish that you're going out to walk your dog would sound like you're going out to walk your but!
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Well, I was referring to English spoken with a verrry American accent in my previous post, and I think you got it actually ;)

English is the official language of America, and the sad part is that whilst some like to scoff at and grammar police others (you see it all the time on twitter and FB), there are many that speak English as their native tongue, whose grammar leaves much to be desired.
 
waybread

waybread

Well-known member
aquarius7000 said:
...

English is the official language of America, and the sad part is that whilst some like to scoff at and grammar police others (you see it all the time on twitter and FB), there are many that speak English as their native tongue, whose grammar leaves much to be desired.
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I wasn't familiar with this act, having repeatedly learned that the US has no official language. I am not clear that it passed both houses of Congress. I clicked on the actions taken in your link. It shows it introduced into the House in 2017, and referred to several committees, but not passed or forwarded to the Senate.

I think this bill is in some legislative limbo
 
Dirius

Dirius

Well-known member
Reposting some news:

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...sted-online-evoking-George-Floyd-slaying.html

https://www.breitbart.com/crime/202...-accused-of-kneeling-on-childs-neck-in-photo/

https://7news.com.au/news/north-ame...-shows-him-kneeling-on-childs-neck--c-1187187

https://www.whio.com/news/crime-and...eling-childs-neck/7GREMQGUZNC6DBZAFQCVDVZXKI/

All links are for the same article, different websites, take your pick.

Isaiah Jackson was arrested on a probation violation after investigation of a photo posted online, allegedly depicting the 20-year-old Clark County resident kneeling on the neck of a crying toddler — whose hands are held behind his back by an off-screen individual.

Man takes picture with his knee over a crying white baby with the tag "BLM NOW MF". Warning the picture is quite disturbing.

Would this be considered racist on his part? A grown black man abusing a white child? Would this be considered a hatecrime by the standards of this community?

No reports of this on CNN or the usual new sites, how strange huh?
 
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