lisahearts
Well-known member
Jupiter connected to Saturn , both ruling the first house Taurus
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Help! does this represent EVIL?
- Thread starter lisahearts
- Start date
JUPITERASC
Well-known member
[deleted OP quote by request - Moderator]
Would appreciate if you would clarify your understanding
of what is meant
when you say
'DOUBLE SATURN'
Would appreciate if you would clarify your understanding
of what is meant
when you say
'DOUBLE SATURN'
Last edited by a moderator:
JUPITERASC
Well-known member
Do you see that those two adjacent planetary symbols are completely different?
so there is only one Saturn in first house
and
immediately adjacent to the one Saturn in first house
is
one Jupiter
also in first house
so
that IS NOT 'DOUBLE SATURN'
but is instead
a conjunction of Jupiter and Saturn
athenian200
Well-known member
No, actually one of those is Jupiter...
There's only ONE Saturn. However, Jupiter brings good luck and expansion, while Saturn brings restriction and obstacles... having them conjunct might very well amplify Saturn's ability to cause trouble.
Incidentally, in the house system I use, they're conjunct in the 2nd house. The reason this might interest you is because... that house is related to money and possessions.
I don't have time to do a full analysis of this chart right now, but I can say that it might be pretty bad. The ruler of the 2nd house, Venus, is combust.
JUPITERASC
Well-known member
That's an inaccurate generalisation that is misleading
because
Jupiter does not necessarily ALWAYS 'bring good luck and expansion'
and
Saturn does not necessarily ALWAYS 'bring restriction and obstacles'
because
the delineation of any individual planet in any natal chart
is entirely dependent on the natal condition of those planets
and
dependent on their natal condition
Jupiter sometimes acts as a malefic
and
Saturn sometimes acts as a benefic
JUPITERASC
Well-known member
By the way, that house system is Whole Sign
The house location of any natal planet is entirely dependent on the house system chosen
easily verified by using a selection of any of the fourteen different house systems
on offer at astro.com's Extended Chart Selection Page
EXPLANATORY ASTROLOGICAL HOUSES ARTICLE http://www.librarising.com/astrology/misc/wholesignhouses.html
QUOTE
'...In no other area of astrology is there so much mess and confusion
than in the area of the so-called "houses".
There are at least twenty or thirty different house systems
or means of dividing the so-called "birthchart" into twelve segments of life activity.
In astrology, houses, mansions, or domains,
represent general areas of life activity
and are the grounding areas or arenas of expression for planets.
Originally, the words "houses" and "signs" were interchangeable
or meant the same thing.
A planet in Aries
was also a planet in the house of Aries,
so that in effect
there were no real houses as we know them today....'
'….Artificial divisions now known as houses
were attempts by early Greeks and Hindus
to measure strength "points" in the horoscope,
which during 7th and 8th centuries AD
were construed or confused a
s means of dividing the birth chart.
The ascendant and midheaven degrees
and their opposites, for example,
were definite power points or areas of intense focus,
but not necessarily the beginnings of a house or quadrant.
In fact, there is no real basis for the astrological houses at all.
They derive from a misunderstanding of the true nature of the Ascendant and Midheaven factors in astrology,
Ascendant representing Earth/terrestial sphere, and Midheaven representing Sky/Heaven /celestial sphere....'
'...If any house system should be used at all, it should be the Whole Sign House system, where the ascendant sign becomes the whole first house and the others follow. Ascendant point can then fall anywhere in the first house and the midheaven point anywhere in the upper half of the chart. The Whole Sign House system was used by the ancient Greeks and the Hindus(who still use it today). It is the oldest and simplest house system in existence, and immediately eliminates the awful mess astrologers have made on the issue over the last 1300 years or so....'
WHOLE SIGNS http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/showthread.php?t=42163
WHOLE SIGN OR PLACIDUS http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/showthread.php?t=39669
JUPITERASC
Well-known member
Who used to beat your brother?
It's normal to have a negative reaction when frequently being beaten
by the way
I note you have edited your post now to state Jupiter and Saturn are conjunct
and have understood there is no 'double Saturn'
photon11111
Premium Member
Just glancing at the chart, look to the locations of Uranus and Pluto and how they aspect planets.
It is my understanding that the symbol for Saturn was supposed to be an upside down Jupiter. With time passing and people writing fast the symbols evolved.
It is my understanding that the symbol for Saturn was supposed to be an upside down Jupiter. With time passing and people writing fast the symbols evolved.
OK.... but when did you all move to Bristol? Exactly.
Calvinsmom
Well-known member
There is something about Pluto conjunct Chiron opposed his Sun and Venus. I also noticed the fact that both you and he have Saturn in your first house and that may have something to do with your mom's difficulty understanding your needs. But as far as Pluto conj. Chiron opposed to the Venus Sun conjunction and the fact that he was beaten by a parent ( You have not told us who but I imagine it was your father?) No child should ever be beaten, period. It is illegal and immoral to beat any living thing, animal or human. Do I think that's the reason for his acting out? Absolutely. Running away from home and stealing are symptoms of a psychological lack of a feeling of belonging in a family dynamic. He was beaten from his parent most likely because the parent was trying to assert dominance and compliance thru a fear, aggression and pain in order to force the child to comply. In a child's mind, that act makes it clear that the child would separate emotionally from the parent at that time and not trust the parent any longer for caregiving and emotional connectedness. He turned to his friends and ran away from home in an effort to find a place and person to belong to. This is why kids join gangs, they see a gang as a substitute family. A child is not "born" evil. That is a misconception. Children are blank slates and discipline for adults does not work for a child whose mind is forming attachment bonds. So if anyone is evil, it's the parent who beat the child in the first place. With Pluto conjunct Chiron, he is going to have a life or death experience and will be in emotional pain until the parent who beat him finally dies and has no bearing on his life. It will be at that time where he can hopefully undergo a spiritual reawakening and transformation of some kind. But oppositions and squares to our personal planets like Sun and Moon from planets such as Pluto and Saturn ( think of the struggles you have personally with your Saturn square your Sun and you can understand) well,these are very difficult aspects to deal with. They give us angst and insecurities about ourselves and self acceptance.
kimbermoon
Well-known member
Lack of love and understanding does tend to bring out the worst in people. By the law of cause and effect, early abuse will typically serve to create greater violence in a person. With Saturn now direct in motion, remember that he is also undergoing the rebellious phase of teens generated by the Saturn opposition ; a time when the urge for autonomy and independence can become obsessional, as represented by Pluto in the 8th. Another factor is the Aries rising persona, and afflictions to the Moon, which can relate to repressed anger.
From my view I would avoid the term 'evil', since there is no action in the 12th, although it's ruler is ill configured with Mercury, which often denotes mental disorders. The diagnosis of ADHD is sufficient enough to deal with and that does require appropriate treatments which need to be consistent and ongoing.
Note that his hard aspects can be offset in due time by the positive: Sun with Uranus[ aka the Rebel] and Neptune confusion. The Sun shows one's true Identity and sense of self in the world. Also Saturn sxt NN; Uranus/Mars and Neptune/Pluto. He needs appropriate direction and guidance primarily, to give him confidence, common sense and to be accountable for his own actions.
For you it is important to consider his personal background with the parents, and try to image how that might affect a person. His actions now are largely reactionary to the imprinting he has received.
It is love and understanding that he needs primarily and encouragement to increase his self-esteem to gain a proper balance within. Strict discipline often has the opposite affect. Do you think he makes comparisons between how you were raised in contrast to you, which contributes to resentment in his developing psyche?
By researching 'psychology' yourself, you may be the one to open the doors to greater communication with his parents and a greater potential for resolution and healing.
Also the situation might be helped if you focus on one day at a time, rather than projecting everything into the future. Try to help your parents gain greater understanding themselves. You also might want to study his progressions and transits for further insights about the problem.
From my view I would avoid the term 'evil', since there is no action in the 12th, although it's ruler is ill configured with Mercury, which often denotes mental disorders. The diagnosis of ADHD is sufficient enough to deal with and that does require appropriate treatments which need to be consistent and ongoing.
Note that his hard aspects can be offset in due time by the positive: Sun with Uranus[ aka the Rebel] and Neptune confusion. The Sun shows one's true Identity and sense of self in the world. Also Saturn sxt NN; Uranus/Mars and Neptune/Pluto. He needs appropriate direction and guidance primarily, to give him confidence, common sense and to be accountable for his own actions.
For you it is important to consider his personal background with the parents, and try to image how that might affect a person. His actions now are largely reactionary to the imprinting he has received.
It is love and understanding that he needs primarily and encouragement to increase his self-esteem to gain a proper balance within. Strict discipline often has the opposite affect. Do you think he makes comparisons between how you were raised in contrast to you, which contributes to resentment in his developing psyche?
By researching 'psychology' yourself, you may be the one to open the doors to greater communication with his parents and a greater potential for resolution and healing.
Also the situation might be helped if you focus on one day at a time, rather than projecting everything into the future. Try to help your parents gain greater understanding themselves. You also might want to study his progressions and transits for further insights about the problem.