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  #1  
Unread 11-07-2009, 04:45 PM
asavelli asavelli is offline
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saturn return in virgo and 6th house...but issues with relationships?

hello to all, so i have come here for some help, because i've read many articles on saturn return for myself and over and over again i can't find answers to what's going on with me...and since i want to get this first saturn return right so that i don't have to suffer through the second one, here is my post ;-)

i'm male born july 21st, 1980 at 10.31pm in sao paulo brasil, my map is attached

this places my saturn in virgo in the 6th at some 23 degrees, which means i had my saturn return september 2nd through 9th this year...it also means that my saturn return has to do with how i work, how i organize myself and also issues with health...however, these are things that to me seem to be taken care of, as i have come dealing with them with ease...however, it seems to me that my saturn return has affected me more in the sense of relationships than anything else...

beginning in september 2007 (as i was to learn, when saturn entered virgo), i went into a long-distance relationship with a person that i did not trust and whom i also let do a lot of bad things to me...let's say it was a relationship you could put on any jerry springer show and it would be one of the most watched shows...a lot of psychological terrorism, a lot of physical threats and abuse (from her part) and neverending fights, also with neglect on her part....that really made me question what was reality...this came to an end and i came to my senses again...

then in may this year i went into another relationship with someone that had an ongoing 4 yr relationship, just as i was about to go away for three months...i told her to take this time off, to be apart from each other so she could figure out what she wanted and i could just take it easy, considering my past relationship...it turned out that we remained together because our connection is/was very strong...almost as though we were true soulmates...her map is attached as well...

throughout the summer she wasn't able to satisfy my needs because of what she was going through with her bfriend and the relationships started to remind me more and more of my previous one (in terms of neglect and of things she would tell me)...i started dreaming with my previous girlfriend...and my anxiety levels went through the roof...and as we came to be together again on september 2nd 2009, she broek up with her boyfriend...and as i went into my return that same day, i was not able to giver her the security needed, which made her still keep in touch with her bfriend in a way that i would not have liked her too (also like the previous girlfriend)

anyway, to cut the long story short, since the return i have gone through a variety of sensations, from having to excuse myself from my activities to go vomit, to thinking i was schizophrenic, to having double personalities to having anxiety and panic attacks...and what it left me with is a completely split feeling with regards to this person...sometimes i feel she is the love of my life, the other time i feel she is nothing to me....and now i have a constant feeling of depersonalization, that nothing i'm living is real, loosing sense of time, space, etc...and at the same time i feel i need to get away from her, i simply cannot bring myself to it...

can anyone help me understand all of this? because saturn return is through and i think i have come to terms with what virgo and 6th house implies (opportunities are coming up and no organization or health issues), but i am having these relationship issues that i simply cannot explain...

any help you guys can give me will be deeply appreciated....and sorry for the long post :-)

[poster gave no astrological interpretation so moved to Greenhorns Lounge - Moderator]
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Last edited by wilsontc; 11-08-2009 at 04:07 AM.
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  #2  
Unread 11-08-2009, 12:59 PM
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astrologer50 astrologer50 is offline
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Re: saturn return in virgo and 6th house...but issues with relationships?

Welcome to AW,

Attention new members
http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/showthread.php?t=19968

May I suggest you read the 'welcome sticky' at the top of this forum? It has some great explanations, links etc and also has links to forum rules & regs...At the top of every forum there are lots of Ďstickysí which explain matters in that forum, along with guidelines, tips and forum rules

You need to research your natal venus as it is rather 'challenged' by aspects that cause tension. Venus opp Neptune =romantic disillusionment, venus square saturn, cautious reserved and feelings of being unloved from childhood by one of your parents. So when T Saturn came to it's natal position ie: Saturn return it also 'triggered' you natal saturn aspects, the ones of which I have briefly described above

Plus your venus quincunxs moon/uranus conjuntion.

Moon Quincunx (Inconjunct) Venus

The frustration you experience in life often comes because you get what you ask for from other people (and life in general). Unfortunately, what you ask for isn't what you want. Partly, you are slowly learning better communication skills, and partly you are learning to understand your own deeper cravings as they are. You see the unacknowledged and undigested parts of your sensitivity and creativity present in others, but, these are really projections that you have to own within your self if you are to change for the better.

http://www.cafeastrology.com/natal/q...retations.html
Venus Quincunx (Inconjunct) Uranus

Learning to let go of the past means being willing to release relationships you have outgrown. Further, you need to reevaluate the way you imprison yourself in mindless routines, then revolt against them. Different is not improvement necessarily, yet change is integral to development. Learning to abruptly alter circumstances without emotional turmoil is the way of growth. You need freedom through relationships, not freedom from relationships.


To start with it's best to look at the individual needs of each persons chart and how they relate and what they are looking for. Astro.com does have an option composite + natal midpoint method (2) which I find helpful. If you choose to post the synastry bi wheel from astro could you please select the 2nd synastry option as it will put the houses and degrees onto the wheel which is far better for us to evaluate matters....

If you post the synastry chart and realise it doesnít show the degrees (which we need to look at) you can find the degrees and other information in a separate PDF on the synastry page of astro.com. Look for the link "View the additional tables (PDF)" and click on it to see the additional information. Reading a synastry chart is mainly about reading the aspects between the planets in the two charts. So once you find the PDF, scroll down to the bottom of the page and look in the synastry grid that is there. Unfortunately, you can only see/read these and not save/upload. Thatís why I like to see both natalís and composite. This grid (in my opinion) has too many minor aspects and the orbs are quite wide. I like to use + - max 3í

When looking at a womanís chart the type of man she would look for is her sun sign and mars traits, plus 7th house planets and house cusp ruler and where that ruler was deposited.
When looking at a mans chart for the type of woman he would look for is his venus and moon sign and then 7th house planets and house cusp ruler and where that ruler was deposited.

Although synastry is a valuable tool with astrology it cannot 'make things happen' even if you have the best synastry in the world unfortunately..

If you want to research more into synastry try here
http://cafeastrology.com/astrology_of_relationships.html
http://www.cafeastrology.com/synastry/interchartaspects.html
http://www.cafeastrology.com/synastry_house_overlays.html
http://www.astrology-numerology.com/synastry.html
http://www.astrology-numerology.com/synastry-houses.html
http://www.astrology-numerology.com/synastryaspects.html
http://www.cosmitec-astrological-compatibility-advice.com/astrology-marriage.html


Your natal chart is like a photograph as unique as your fingerprint, BUT the 10planets in the sky have not stayed where they were in your natal chart, they have all moved. Predictive astrology is mostly maths where those 10planets are now and the mathematical aspects they make to your natal charts ie: 180'=opposition, 90'=square, 60'=sextile and 120'=trine.

So your personality, grows, develops, changes, matures as we get older, this is reflected by your sun sign changing from it's natal position to the next sign along, so does your Asc and MC sign change. In fact from sun to mars espec are important, as the outer planets really don't move much, using a 'day for a year' secondary progressions.

If you want to research more into Secondary progressions try here
http://cafeastrology.com/secondaryprogressions.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Astrological_progression
http://www.aquamoonlight.co.uk/progressions.html
http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=67

It's very common for progressed venus onto sun or vice versa to be involved, also the North Node of one person conj second person's sun or moon. Also Vertex is usually involved either natally, by progression or by transit. I use max orb orb 3' between each others planets. To research more on inter-aspects try here. http://www.cafeastrology.com/synastr...rtaspects.html


We also have a 'Relational Forum' besides lots of others and these are very common questions so perhaps researching a while around there could pay dividends....Here is one of my post's with lots of info http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum...ad.php?t=13745

Synastry & divorce--- really great article, well worth reading-----
http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=0OJgX88KKMsC&pg=PA46&lpg=PA46&dq=astrolog y+2nd+marriage&source=bl&ots=DoV__K_IQS&sig=dI1UAX 5oprrQLtfzYUrJ4_XzuKU&hl=en&ei=zBV0SsfnHYqhjAf5rN2 nBg&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=6#v=onepa ge&q=&f=false
Perhaps you should read this thread entitled: astrology predicts meanings, not events
http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/showthread.php?t=17546&page=2
Etiquette and telling people their fate
http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/showthread.php?t=17248
10Doís and Doníts with astrology by Radu
http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/showthread.php?t=17450

Astrology is not about sitting home on the couch eating nachos and waiting for the planets to make good things happen in your life. It is always your responsibility to work towards making your own dreams come true. Horoscopes simply help you to schedule your actions for the best possible outcome
http://www.tomorrowsedge.net/virgo-monthly-astrology-horoscope.html

What Astrology Can and Can Not Do
http://www.ofspirit.com/susanmiller1.htm




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  #3  
Unread 11-08-2009, 01:21 PM
gemini59's Avatar
gemini59 gemini59 is offline
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Re: saturn return in virgo and 6th house...but issues with relationships?

Since you are asking about a saturn return can you post your return chart?
Astro.com does not have them but you must have drawn it up some where .
The Saturn return reads like a solar return accept saturn is the focus.
Oddly enough you have the same degrees on your ascendant as I do and in that same month you speak of I went through 'heck' myself...I am sure little correlation but odd. Saturn was transiting our 6th house.
Your saturn return will most likely not have Saturn in the 6th again..though it could. My natal saturn is in the 10 and my return had it in the 7th.
The saturn return is constructed using the time (down to minutes and seconds) that saturn returns to its exact degree as your natal and in your current living place not your natal.
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north node is 9'21
10ļ Libra (190): A CANOE APPROACHING SAFETY THROUGH DANGEROUS WATERS. __________________
http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum...2&d=1258215711
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Unread 11-08-2009, 02:03 PM
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astrologer50 astrologer50 is offline
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Re: saturn return in virgo and 6th house...but issues with relationships?

Saturn Return
Saturn takes 30 years or so to complete its circuit around the zodiac so events that occur around the age of 29-30, 58-59 and 80-81 will be of great significance to the native, depending on the strength and aspects to natal saturn.
http://www.newage-directory.com/saturn.html
http://www.astrologycom.com/saturn.html
http://www.saturnreturn.net/what_is.html
http://www.examiner.com/x-2766-Atlan...-Saturn-return

http://www.lynnkoiner.com/astrology-articles/dysfunctional-saturn
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  #5  
Unread 11-08-2009, 03:25 PM
asavelli asavelli is offline
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Re: saturn return in virgo and 6th house...but issues with relationships?

thanks astrologer 50 for your many insightful comments

i have tried to follow up on your instructions by drawing the composite + natal and the degrees and have tried to attach them. i'm now going to read through the links you have posted here to gain some more insight, but thank you very much up till now

my interpretation is that we have a very special connection, at least from what i read in the synastries it confirms that

please find the information attached

best,

AMS
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File Type: gif composite + midpoint natal chart.gif (65.1 KB, 0 views)
File Type: gif composite + natal degrees.gif (75.5 KB, 0 views)
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Unread 11-08-2009, 03:43 PM
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Vista Vista is offline
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Re: saturn return in virgo and 6th house...but issues with relationships?

Quote:
Originally Posted by asavelli View Post
hello to all, so i have come here for some help, because i've read many articles on saturn return for myself and over and over again i can't find answers to what's going on with me...and since i want to get this first saturn return right so that i don't have to suffer through the second one, here is my post ;-)

i'm male born july 21st, 1980 at 10.31pm in sao paulo brasil, my map is attached

this places my saturn in virgo in the 6th at some 23 degrees, which means i had my saturn return september 2nd through 9th this year...it also means that my saturn return has to do with how i work, how i organize myself and also issues with health...however, these are things that to me seem to be taken care of, as i have come dealing with them with ease...however, it seems to me that my saturn return has affected me more in the sense of relationships than anything else...

beginning in september 2007 (as i was to learn, when saturn entered virgo), i went into a long-distance relationship with a person that i did not trust and whom i also let do a lot of bad things to me...let's say it was a relationship you could put on any jerry springer show and it would be one of the most watched shows...a lot of psychological terrorism, a lot of physical threats and abuse (from her part) and neverending fights, also with neglect on her part....that really made me question what was reality...this came to an end and i came to my senses again...

then in may this year i went into another relationship with someone that had an ongoing 4 yr relationship, just as i was about to go away for three months...i told her to take this time off, to be apart from each other so she could figure out what she wanted and i could just take it easy, considering my past relationship...it turned out that we remained together because our connection is/was very strong...almost as though we were true soulmates...her map is attached as well...

throughout the summer she wasn't able to satisfy my needs because of what she was going through with her bfriend and the relationships started to remind me more and more of my previous one (in terms of neglect and of things she would tell me)...i started dreaming with my previous girlfriend...and my anxiety levels went through the roof...and as we came to be together again on september 2nd 2009, she broek up with her boyfriend...and as i went into my return that same day, i was not able to giver her the security needed, which made her still keep in touch with her bfriend in a way that i would not have liked her too (also like the previous girlfriend)

anyway, to cut the long story short, since the return i have gone through a variety of sensations, from having to excuse myself from my activities to go vomit, to thinking i was schizophrenic, to having double personalities to having anxiety and panic attacks...and what it left me with is a completely split feeling with regards to this person...sometimes i feel she is the love of my life, the other time i feel she is nothing to me....and now i have a constant feeling of depersonalization, that nothing i'm living is real, loosing sense of time, space, etc...and at the same time i feel i need to get away from her, i simply cannot bring myself to it...

can anyone help me understand all of this? because saturn return is through and i think i have come to terms with what virgo and 6th house implies (opportunities are coming up and no organization or health issues), but i am having these relationship issues that i simply cannot explain...

any help you guys can give me will be deeply appreciated....and sorry for the long post :-)

[poster gave no astrological interpretation so moved to Greenhorns Lounge - Moderator]
It's not just the Saturn return that is causing the problems, Tr Saturn was also squaring natal Venus as Astrologer50 said. Since Venus rules your 7th and Saturn is the almuten or co-ruler, it doesn't bode well for relationships to have them in hard aspect during a transit, especialy since they are in hard aspect natally. The other thing I have noticed with Natal Moon conjunct Uranus(the same with square/opposition) is that the emotions have a tendency to be a little erratic at times, usually when it comes to relationships. Since Moon rules your 5th house of romance and sits in the 8th house of sex, this is particularly troublesome for you. The hot and cold seesaw is very typical and you can project it onto your partners, menaing they could display this behavior as well. I would say that a long distance relationship would usually be a good way to work with this energy as the person isn't available to you all the time. Of course this doesn't solve the problem when it comes time to live with this person.
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Unread 11-08-2009, 03:46 PM
asavelli asavelli is offline
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Re: saturn return in virgo and 6th house...but issues with relationships?

gemini59
unfortunately i don't have a saturn return chart drawn up...i tried downloading some software to do it and have spent the last 2 hours trying to draw it up but cannot figure it out...the software i downloaded is ZET 9 Lite...any instructions?
many thanks for the response!
best,
AMS
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