Schildmaid
Active member
What's the correct way to calculate dignities for planets? Even using Lilly's table is really not as straightforward as it should be...
Calculating Dignities
- Thread starter Schildmaid
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conspiracy theorist
Well-known member
Schildmaid
Active member
So dignity points are meaningless and originally all dignities were equal? I might just go with that.
tsmall
Premium Member
It really depends on what you are calculating dignities for. About the ony time it makes sense to figure out what planet is more dignifed where is if you are trying to calculate a compound almuten. Otherwise, trying to add up a score based on Lilly's table is pointless~because that score doesn't help in any way with interpretive value.
Take Saturn in the 3rd degree of Aries in a night chart, Sun and Jupiter adhering to the ASC in Aquarius. Saturn gets +5 for mutual reception with the Sun, -4 for being in fall. Actually, since it's mixed mutual reception, let's give it +4 putting us back at 0. -5 for being peregrine, +3 for being in the second house brings us to -2. +4 for being direct, +2 for being swift in motion gets us to +4. Add another +5 for not being combust or under the beams, and +3 for the partile sextile with Jupiter (nevermind that Jupiter is combust, escaping,) but -4 because of the partile opposition with Mars brings us to...+8.
Fantastic! Now, does any of that tell us how this Saturn is going to behave?
Take Saturn in the 3rd degree of Aries in a night chart, Sun and Jupiter adhering to the ASC in Aquarius. Saturn gets +5 for mutual reception with the Sun, -4 for being in fall. Actually, since it's mixed mutual reception, let's give it +4 putting us back at 0. -5 for being peregrine, +3 for being in the second house brings us to -2. +4 for being direct, +2 for being swift in motion gets us to +4. Add another +5 for not being combust or under the beams, and +3 for the partile sextile with Jupiter (nevermind that Jupiter is combust, escaping,) but -4 because of the partile opposition with Mars brings us to...+8.
Fantastic! Now, does any of that tell us how this Saturn is going to behave?
conspiracy theorist
Well-known member
As Tsmall said, quantifying the planet's dignity doesn't really help when it comes to interpretation. For instance, would I take your Jupiter as weak because it is in fall? Not necessarily. The seeking of truth and wisdom seems to very strong in your life, lest you wouldn't be here at 19 trying to master astrology.
JUPITERASC
Well-known member
.
The Origins of the EXALTATIONS: A New Discovery
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vHRBCSfV300
astrologers Chris Brennan and Benjamin Dykes unveil a new discovery
about the origins of the exaltations
derived from a lost Hermetic text preserved by Abu Ma'shar.
Paula Belluomini made a number of diagrams to illustrate the concepts
so I would recommend watching the video.
Ben plans to publish his translation of the Great Introduction by Abu Ma'shar
sometime in the next few months, his website to receive a notification when that is released: https://bendykes.com
Last summer Keiji Yamamoto and Charles Burnett released
their long-awaited translation of The Great Introduction to Astrology
by the 9th century astrologer Abu Ma'shar.
This was the first time this text has been translated into English in its entirety.
Abu Ma'shar frequently cites a lost Greek text
attributed to Hermes Trismegistus.
This appears to be the same text called the Panaretos
that the 4th century astrologer Paulus Alexandrinus drew on
for his treatment of seven planets Lots
although Abu Ma'shar shares much more from the text than Paulus did.
The Hermes material preserved by Abu Ma'shar contains a set of rationales
for the domicile and exaltation schemes
that are unique
and it seems to preserve what may be the original conceptual rationales
for both of those schemes.
The exaltations chapter in particular
provides a much more detailed explanation for the exaltations than any I've ever seen
and it is also unique because
it provides an astronomical rationale for the exaltations degrees
not just the signs of exaltation and fall.
Arguments for the domiciles and exaltations presented by this text
are based firmly rooted in the tropical zodiac
and this raises some major questions about previous assumptions
that the exaltations had their origins in the sideral zodiac
and the earlier Mesopotamian tradition.
The discovery also raises questions
about the extent to which Hellenistic astrology
and western astrology in general
partially represents a sudden invention or technical construct
that was put together sometime around the 1st century BCE.
The Origins of the EXALTATIONS: A New Discovery
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vHRBCSfV300
astrologers Chris Brennan and Benjamin Dykes unveil a new discovery
about the origins of the exaltations
derived from a lost Hermetic text preserved by Abu Ma'shar.
Paula Belluomini made a number of diagrams to illustrate the concepts
so I would recommend watching the video.
Ben plans to publish his translation of the Great Introduction by Abu Ma'shar
sometime in the next few months, his website to receive a notification when that is released: https://bendykes.com
Last summer Keiji Yamamoto and Charles Burnett released
their long-awaited translation of The Great Introduction to Astrology
by the 9th century astrologer Abu Ma'shar.
This was the first time this text has been translated into English in its entirety.
Abu Ma'shar frequently cites a lost Greek text
attributed to Hermes Trismegistus.
This appears to be the same text called the Panaretos
that the 4th century astrologer Paulus Alexandrinus drew on
for his treatment of seven planets Lots
although Abu Ma'shar shares much more from the text than Paulus did.
The Hermes material preserved by Abu Ma'shar contains a set of rationales
for the domicile and exaltation schemes
that are unique
and it seems to preserve what may be the original conceptual rationales
for both of those schemes.
The exaltations chapter in particular
provides a much more detailed explanation for the exaltations than any I've ever seen
and it is also unique because
it provides an astronomical rationale for the exaltations degrees
not just the signs of exaltation and fall.
Arguments for the domiciles and exaltations presented by this text
are based firmly rooted in the tropical zodiac
and this raises some major questions about previous assumptions
that the exaltations had their origins in the sideral zodiac
and the earlier Mesopotamian tradition.
The discovery also raises questions
about the extent to which Hellenistic astrology
and western astrology in general
partially represents a sudden invention or technical construct
that was put together sometime around the 1st century BCE.
I agree, Lilly's system is pretty messed up. However, compared to the vedic system of calculating dignity (shadbala), the western system is really just child's play, preschool math.
Agreed. The almuten thing got out of hand at some point. That's a major issue I've got with Zoller, too.
From my perspective, assigning points is fine. Where it gets problematic is when you start adding them up and start comparing the total score of each planet.
IMO, Lilly's list puts too much emphasis on minor factors. And that's an issue I see with Lilly in general (and also medieval astrology in general). Frawley was right in cutting down Lilly's extensive lists of minor testimonies to the bare minimum.
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Thanks for the link, JA. Are there any cliff notes?
The best explanation I've come across so far is from Gil Brand who is not only well versed in traditional western astrology but also vedic astrology. His theory is golden section based and the sidereal zodiac.
JUPITERASC
Well-known member
EXALTATION & JOYS OF PLANETS & PRIME NUMBERS
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_yzxiAEmuwk&list=PL7dB1Eig3ZbJqnAlu13FQ6_yJ2nSd7pIm&index=10
David Cochrane