Imagined pain

Hi! I finally decided to ask something more personal, I hope it's not a mistake.
Is there something in my chart that shows pain coming from 'unexistent' sources? I normally imagine situations that are uncomfortable and psychically exosting. They are painful. I'm not so sure why I do that. Since I was very young I used to notlive in what most people call the real world. Then it was ok. I imagined myself being a mermaid(my first and strongest dream of my childhood) or a princess but with time things changed. I dream(or see... I don't know if it's reality or just a dream, nobody can know) of good things, great even, but without a reason coming from my 'real' life, I 'see' visions of fears, of people hurting me, of the world hurting me. It is a great pain, it feels so real and without realizing it...it turned into a constant emotional obsession. I unconsciously or not turn my everyday life into hell of something I can't touch or see with my eyes but nevertheless something that 'kills'. The feeling is of...eating yourself alive. I'm hypersensitive to everything around me. Everything that happens(or not) creates its own world inside of me and keeps growing and transforming into different things until I have a little emotional crisis and then someone says something, I think of something and the process continues with a reborn or a new pain. It is not depression, I have never been in a depression. Somehow...while I'm living in a constant 'illusion' I manage to be in reality, too, I can't just shut the world out and this is not always a good thing. It is very possible that it's a psychological problem but it is a part of my personality, too. So I ask - what in my chart shows making up problems and suffering? The strange thing is...I make it through those imagined hurtful situations again in my mind and soul. A trail of every single issue may still be in my mind, of course, but sometimes it's good to just let the pain flood through my whole body and let even a part of it go.

I hope now people won't tell me that I need another kind of professional help. I'm not looking for help here(or unwanted judgement. I didn't start 'studying' astrology to know more about me or find something I didn't know before, however strange this might sound), I'm just asking if my chart shows anything about this illusionary world of mine, my 'dark'(it's really not only about the dark things) side that feels more real than my physical self. Thanks!

With your 6th house packed with planets and square Neptune, then yes phantom pain and illnesses are likely.

But I don't even feel the qualities my Sun is supposd to have and I don't know anything about my Mercury. I have never connected the 6th house with such psychological and emoional issues. That is one of the reasons why I don't usually read books, I am living though the emotions of the characters a lot more vividly than the writer even meant for them. I am happier than they are and, unfortunately, I suffer more. And with a book the control it's impossible. A book is a world withing a world within my worlds.My greatest emotional experiences were not parts of my life but of books. My favourite book(well, it used to be. Now I'm not sure) was the absolute tragical story(a more modern gothic story with an ending I can't forget). It was very introspective, slow-pacing, without too much dramatic ugliness to make the bad more 'real'and still was so hurtful to read. Every book I have ever read had at least one moment of great pain in it. I don't like it but somehow I unconsciously choose to read books that will have strong and lasting psychological effect on me. And now I don't want to start a new one. I don't like re-reading too, it's a too nostalgic feeling.

Vesta is where we take into ourselves from the world - our thoughts and beliefs and experiences. These get processed to create our own reality which manifests at the vertex, your fated point. Your Vesta is sextile Mercury and Chiron - thus everything you think and the hurts you suffer - you mull over and process and make it a fundamental part of your framework - with their conjunction with the Sun. They are square Neptune so they are shaped by imagination, illusion, fantasy, other people's cr@p, and so on. All this is fed to your Vesta, pops out the Vertex - right on top of the Sun, Mercury and Chiron. You become these illusions. And the cycle repeats. As the 6th house also represents our health or "dis-ease" with life, your illusions thus manifest there in that fashion.
Of course this is based on the chart you present, which is whole sign which I never use. If you used tropical the signs and houses would shift and the 6th house may not be affected at all. However the planetary aspects would remain and the manifestation process would be the same.

For me, "phantom" pains, illnesses, etc,-which, by the way I consider to be quite real, but arising from a subtle energetic plane rather than directly from the physical body-are signified first and foremost by-Uranus. Now, note Uranus in your chart: it is essentiall conjunct the MC and is therefore the most elevated planet in the chart, which makes it VERY important in that chart. Uranus is also "conjunct by sign" with your Part of Fortune (both in Aquarius), the POF being an important significator for health and well-being: in my opinion, in your chart, the "cause" of the "phantom pains and problems" is clearly Uranus...

(Note too that Uranus is in the monomoiria of Saturn, and Uranus in Aquarius is disposited by Saturn as well-and notice Saturn is in the 12th whole sign house of restrictions, limitations, self-undoings, etc; further notice that Saturn in Aries is disposited in turn by Mars, and Mars is sign-conjunct Lilith; Mars and Lilith are disposited by the Sun, which itself is posited-in its Fall by the way-in the 6th whole sign house-the house of health; so the chain leads from Uranus to the Sun and to the 6th house of health, which connects it all up vis-a-vis this health question)

mdinaz said:

Vesta is where we take into ourselves from the world - our thoughts and beliefs and experiences. These get processed to create our own reality which manifests at the vertex, your fated point. Your Vesta is sextile Mercury and Chiron - thus everything you think and the hurts you suffer - you mull over and process and make it a fundamental part of your framework - with their conjunction with the Sun. They are square Neptune so they are shaped by imagination, illusion, fantasy, other people's cr@p, and so on. All this is fed to your Vesta, pops out the Vertex - right on top of the Sun, Mercury and Chiron. You become these illusions. And the cycle repeats. As the 6th house also represents our health or "dis-ease" with life, your illusions thus manifest there in that fashion.
Of course this is based on the chart you present, which is whole sign which I never use. If you used tropical the signs and houses would shift and the 6th house may not be affected at all. However the planetary aspects would remain and the manifestation process would be the same.

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What you said that evyerything becomes a fundamental part of my framework is very, very true. Basically almost everything goes deep and starts eating on me.
When I use Placidus my 6th house placements aren't changed.

dr. farr said:

For me, "phantom" pains, illnesses, etc,-which, by the way I consider to be quite real, but arising from a subtle energetic plane rather than directly from the physical body-are signified first and foremost by-Uranus. Now, note Uranus in your chart: it is essentiall conjunct the MC and is therefore the most elevated planet in the chart, which makes it VERY important in that chart. Uranus is also "conjunct by sign" with your Part of Fortune (both in Aquarius), the POF being an important significator for health and well-being: in my opinion, in your chart, the "cause" of the "phantom pains and problems" is clearly Uranus...

(Note too that Uranus is in the monomoiria of Saturn, and Uranus in Aquarius is disposited by Saturn as well-and notice Saturn is in the 12th whole sign house of restrictions, limitations, self-undoings, etc; further notice that Saturn in Aries is disposited in turn by Mars, and Mars is sign-conjunct Lilith; Mars and Lilith are disposited by the Sun, which itself is posited-in its Fall by the way-in the 6th whole sign house-the house of health; so the chain leads from Uranus to the Sun and to the 6th house of health, which connects it all up vis-a-vis this health question)

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Very interesting, really. It is exactly how I feel it - connected and taking a big part of me - it is me, because...I do it unconsciously but I do it, other people seem to be living better in this world and can be happier with it, cherishing the little things in life, normal things.
It's interesting also because I didn't connect Uranus with phantom ilnesses. I usually think of it as action-oriented, an energy that is more likely to manifest in the material plane and is connected with career, with revolution of ideas. I have always thought of Neptune as the unconscious world designer.

As for Saturn...It is supposed to be hidden and unconscious and there still is a lot of time till my Saturn return but I feel the planet quite strongly. Because my illusionary hell is like a prison for me I immediately thought of Saturn and the 12th house. When I use the Placidus system my Saturn is on the cusp so I have always considered it a 12th house planet.

It just came to my mind that I have to add something to my explanation after dr.farr pointed out that the pains are real and are connected to a very real energy plane. Yes, I imagine a bad thing happening but it is because in my life bad things of the same nature do exist, just not in their most painful form. They 'point out' to me of possible situations in the future where things are a little bit more different and scary.
And things that seem to have no base in reality or a logical explanation are again connected to me being afraid of something or insecure.
I give form to everything that in some way can question my well-being because of the energy it carries but it isn't always a part of my life, it's the theme that's similar to my emotional instability. In my mind everything is connected. It's like processing the surroundings. And there are 'illusions' that have real-life forms and with time there is evidence that I didn't make it all up.

Yanel said:

In my mind everything is connected. It's like processing the surroundings. And there are 'illusions' that have real-life forms and with time there is evidence that I didn't make it all up.

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I guess i should clarify here that there is no such thing as "illusion vs reality" - EVERYTHING is an illusion, including our "reality". Everything in your life is created by you, shaped by your thoughts, beliefs, and even fantasies and imagination. My perception of the world is different from yours and yours from the next guy, because we each create our own "version" that we then interact with and then shape further as our thoughts and beliefs change. No two people will perceive the same event the same way because each person creates a different reality based on their own thoughts and beliefs. While as a group of souls we do have some subconscious agreements about some things (a "tree" is not a "rock"), we may not agree precisely on how the tree exists in our own reality (I may see every leaf move and rustle in the wind, you may completely ignore it and not even realize that it does so).

The manner and skill in which we create this reality is based on our own natal charts. In your case, personal hurts and your run-away imagination make a huge part of the basis of your tool box. Now that you recognize this, you can start to modify this process for yourself and re-direct your energy to something more constructive. Instead of these hurts and experiences creating "you" and then controlling your actions, they can instead become part of your experience but not define "you" and you can use them, rather than them using you.

In the model (of planetary affinities and significations) which I follow, Uranus is significator for the subtle energetic field, the "higher" (ie subtle) "electric currents" of the body (Mercury for the actual physical nerve-transmission electical charges) Also, a characteristic for Uranus in medical astrology (astro-therapeutics) is indications of hard or impossible to diagnosis conditions, baffling conditions of health, very unusual or otherwise "eccentric" conditions, etc etc; such as the entire field of (so-called) "phantom pains" and other health conditions which have no ascertainable "physical" basis...

mdinaz said:

I guess i should clarify here that there is no such thing as "illusion vs reality" - EVERYTHING is an illusion, including our "reality". Everything in your life is created by you, shaped by your thoughts, beliefs, and even fantasies and imagination. My perception of the world is different from yours and yours from the next guy, because we each create our own "version" that we then interact with and then shape further as our thoughts and beliefs change. No two people will perceive the same event the same way because each person creates a different reality based on their own thoughts and beliefs. While as a group of souls we do have some subconscious agreements about some things (a "tree" is not a "rock"), we may not agree precisely on how the tree exists in our own reality (I may see every leaf move and rustle in the wind, you may completely ignore it and not even realize that it does so).

The manner and skill in which we create this reality is based on our own natal charts. In your case, personal hurts and your run-away imagination make a huge part of the basis of your tool box. Now that you recognize this, you can start to modify this process for yourself and re-direct your energy to something more constructive. Instead of these hurts and experiences creating "you" and then controlling your actions, they can instead become part of your experience but not define "you" and you can use them, rather than them using you.

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I agree. That's why I always put the word 'illusion' in qutation marks. The terms 'reality' and 'illusion' are entirely human and we're unable to describe anything like it is when using them.

And about using them instead of them using me...I don't know if I can. Anything that is inside me is me, I can't fully control a quality because this quality is me, not mine. And this 'world building' is one of the basic and most important characteristics about me. Its influence is spread through everything I do and I am. The painful part is not the whole thing. I'm currently trying to at least ignore negative influences around me but it is against my character to do so because I instead prefer to face them, to fight and win - unfortunately, at this point of my life I can't win some 'fights'. So if I just let people and their opinions and qualities be, I may not take their words(that are not even directed to me) and behaviour deeply and further intensify the anger and the hurt feelings. But I know I will never really ignore anything that seems like an enemy force, I don't change.

dr. farr said:

In the model (of planetary affinities and significations) which I follow, Uranus is significator for the subtle energetic field, the "higher" (ie subtle) "electric currents" of the body (Mercury for the actual physical nerve-transmission electical charges) Also, a characteristic for Uranus in medical astrology (astro-therapeutics) is indications of hard or impossible to diagnosis conditions, baffling conditions of health, very unusual or otherwise "eccentric" conditions, etc etc; such as the entire field of (so-called) "phantom pains" and other health conditions which have no ascertainable "physical" basis...

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And I thought that Uranus, as my most dominant planet, loves me the most.That secretive, hypocritical, manipulative b*st*rd.

Whew Whole Signs made this chart really easy to read.

You've Venus ruling the 6th house in fall and in the 5th house, which shows illnesses connecting with err...inappropriate creativity. It's basically a weird, negative creativity being connected with your illnesses. Venus ruling the 1st also says that you're doing this by your own efforts.

Finally Mercury in the 6th showing illnesses of a mental nature in an aerial sign, not saying that you have mental illness, but that you're mind is so active that you can just induce stress and illness on yourself.

The fact that Mercury disposits Venus and rules the 5th house of creativity only ties this all together.

If you have any interest at all, I highly recommend meditation. It really calms the mind and helps people, especially the ones that are too much in their heads. Please consider it.

Yanel, I want to start of by saying am one to believe there is a purpose for everything. The one and only key to our exsistence here is very simple. The experience. The only pure way to have this experience is to simply follow what you feel rightly. Nobody knows the beginning or the end( some may) but like we were discussing in the aura thread, keeping yourself in whats most "you" and balancing this "you" is the most essential. Everything comes along with the right time.

Without getting into the details of your chart because I am short on time right now, I think you are very aware of "yourself". Which not everybody strives to be. All this wondering of yours is just a form of your exploration. Energy and how it is directed is how we reflect and create everything else in and around us. Always keep your thoughts strong.(which from your chart im sure you do). When the mind and feelings are over worked we get out of balance and energy is out of focus.

Someone suggested here to try meditation which I thought was a great suggestion to bring your energy back into focus. I would highly recommend yoga to you, or any sort of hobby of activity which keeps you calm and focused. I find it is vital to keep this incorporated in life now and then to keep your positive energy flow going. I got to run but my final words to you are your mind is what ever you focus it to.

good luck.

sworm09 said:

Whew Whole Signs made this chart really easy to read.

You've Venus ruling the 6th house in fall and in the 5th house, which shows illnesses connecting with err...inappropriate creativity. It's basically a weird, negative creativity being connected with your illnesses. Venus ruling the 1st also says that you're doing this by your own efforts.

Finally Mercury in the 6th showing illnesses of a mental nature in an aerial sign, not saying that you have mental illness, but that you're mind is so active that you can just induce stress and illness on yourself.

The fact that Mercury disposits Venus and rules the 5th house of creativity only ties this all together.

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Thanks! What you said makes sense. The inapproriate creativity of my mind. My mind is a constant designer, a world-builder that both makes my life full of richness and it takes too much from me.

Ebenia said:

If you have any interest at all, I highly recommend meditation. It really calms the mind and helps people, especially the ones that are too much in their heads. Please consider it.

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I don't think I can. I think can be out of my body(spiritually. I may have done it a couple of times. But not exactly astral projection) but I can't be completely out of my mind or relax...on purpose.

Yanel said:

I don't think I can. I think can be out of my body(spiritually. I may have done it a couple of times. But not exactly astral projection) but I can't be completely out of my mind or relax...on purpose.

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Well no one knows how to do it just like that. You need to learn to do it by meditative methods. Everyone can relax and will relax if given the right tools and environment... You can youtube some guided meditations that might be the easiest to start with, especially if you have overly active mind.

It is only for your benefit and you don't have to do it, but if you want to help yourself and make your life more comfortable, you can.

I also recommend Abraham Hicks clips from youtube...they might help you too.

Innayat said:

Yanel, I want to start of by saying am one to believe there is a purpose for everything. The one and only key to our exsistence here is very simple. The experience. The only pure way to have this experience is to simply follow what you feel rightly. Nobody knows the beginning or the end( some may) but like we were discussing in the aura thread, keeping yourself in whats most "you" and balancing this "you" is the most essential. Everything comes along with the right time.

Without getting into the details of your chart because I am short on time right now, I think you are very aware of "yourself". Which not everybody strives to be. All this wondering of yours is just a form of your exploration. Energy and how it is directed is how we reflect and create everything else in and around us. Always keep your thoughts strong.(which from your chart im sure you do). When the mind and feelings are over worked we get out of balance and energy is out of focus.

Someone suggested here to try meditation which I thought was a great suggestion to bring your energy back into focus. I would highly recommend yoga to you, or any sort of hobby of activity which keeps you calm and focused. I find it is vital to keep this incorporated in life now and then to keep your positive energy flow going. I got to run but my final words to you are your mind is what ever you focus it to.

good luck.

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I don't know why I didn't see what you wrote earlier, sorry for that.
My opinion is that we're here to express a part of our true self. This world is only our creation, it doesn't hold the meaning, we bring the meaning into the spiritual and if we manage to be what humans are as a race(because we are not humans in the complete sense of the word) we can bring it to the material reality, too, which is for some the greatest enemy because it takes the most and is the slowest to reward you. For sure the material world is my greatest enemy because I have a soul and my soul processes everything, even the things that are not of the same energy matter. Balance is a myth. There is not a signle person that can call him/herself a living being if he doesn't make a choice between energies(not one over the other but one to be expressed through the other as well. The most difficult task of our existing and probably the only one.) However rewarding are some processes they can exhaust us and take too much without giving the human something to touch and see and be happy about it. We're the third race, our main way of living is material, with a reality in which only five senses exist. And when I say 'material' I don't mean just money and a good house(our perception of material is limited in our Earth experience but there are other realities). A relationship, for example, is the most material expression of the feeling love. The language is a material expression of a certain energy vibration. People are the material expression of souls. Life is the material expression of the human. Death is the material expression of cosmic(for no better word) birth and birth is the material expression of cosmic death. It is not easy, nor graceful to be a human being in a world like ours. There are other worlds of more graceful natures, more beautiful and complete and some of them can exist within one another, they can be everywhere and nowhere in particular. And still, the Earth plane(and more importantly - what we built on it) is the form of the general human experince. Society and civilization as the expressions of the collective ego are two of the greatest enemies of the soul, exactly because different realities work differently and some are in opposition. I process this reality through my reality and therefore I create a prison within a prison. I can't really express who and what I am. In a lifetime one can only show a part of his/her Truth and in trying to bring one world into another the Universe at once bleeds and rejoices. Like I said - death is the material expression of cosmic birth and birth is the material expression of cosmic death. Our self is constantly dying so our body(spirit and physical body) can live. Adaptation is out of the question - adaptation in one world means death in another and we should never let that happen if we want to truly be immortal.
We are real, eveything else is an illusion, a magical book.

Sorry for the long explanations, sometimes I need them...

As for my chart, your observation is right - exploration is a good word for it although 'life' may be the best one because it feels(and it is) like living elsewhere. But this is me looking at the picture from a third perspective. I can't ignore the painful part and that part is not even the direct result of my reality.
Thank you for taking the time to look at my chart!

Ebenia said:

Well no one knows how to do it just like that. You need to learn to do it by meditative methods. Everyone can relax and will relax if given the right tools and environment... You can youtube some guided meditations that might be the easiest to start with, especially if you have overly active mind.

It is only for your benefit and you don't have to do it, but if you want to help yourself and make your life more comfortable, you can.

I also recommend Abraham Hicks clips from youtube...they might help you too.

Click to expand...

Thanks for the advice but I can't even imagine it. I really hope(and know) that someday I would find a way to relax and just stop...being, but meditation sound like an alien term for me.

Yanel,

I agree, everything you have written may or may not be some part of your reality. You are living through your soul, whether here or anywhere else but if you think balance is myth explain why from the smallest things to the biggest, there is always a combination of things to hold things together.
There are all sorts of energies , infinitely interconnected in their own .

The concept of self is a part of the concept of unity. One has to realize that the "I" in us is a part or piece of everything else. If you can see my point in this then staying centered in this everything and going along with ourselves is the simple definition of living in the moment.

Be you, and be only you. Now whether that connects other things to you or you to other things that is the reality part of any existence. And with all this being said if you are going to focus on something, focus on what you feel. Focus on what you are at the moment. That is you focusing on your soul.

If, what you meant in your original post was that you do not wish to imagine pain then what I meant was do not if you do not wish to. Instead focus on what you feel to do. Swift your focus with anything which helps you too.

If I stop the pain I won't be alive anymore. If I could divide the good side of something from the bad and take only the good then it will be like the perfect reality. But I can't, so it is obsession now, it's being addicted to the poison.

Your reality is what you create. Follow your good feelings and make it your perfect reality. You own your actions, your will and your ability to manage change. You can't control everything but you can control whether you choose things yourself or let other things choose for you.

Keep your heart and mind fully open and most of all, fearless. There is no excuse for not trying.

Best wishes Yanel