Significators aspecting??

K

Kernowerno

Well-known member
I just read the (very good) post 'How to Read a Horary Chart: The Basics' by archergirl and have a question regarding rule no. 3.

....In relationship questions, the quesited’s significator in conjunction with another planet (often Venus) means, literally, that the quesited is with someone else. Venus in the 7th house often shows this, too (if you or the quesited is not Venus in the chart).

In a chart I drew up, it appears that the significators are Venus and Mars, as the question was "Will we get back together again?". Presumably Mars is the quesitor & Venus the quesited, 1st at Scorpio, 7th at Taurus (although it is radical, admittedly the degree was within 3 so not reliable chart), but if the chart was reliable, would the answer still be that the quesited was 'literally with someone else'? My first thought is that this is an applying aspect and indicates that they will get back together. I notice the Moon is combust (is it? Same sign??) in this instance, so again, not a reliable chart I take it? Still, the question in isolation has me wondering.

Also, what would the Moon being in her house of detriment indicate in this situation (if she wasn't combust and the chart was applicable)? Thanks for your help.
 

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Dirius

Dirius

Well-known member
In relationship questions, the quesited’s significator in conjunction with another planet (often Venus) means, literally, that the quesited is with someone else.

The statement implies that:

If the significator of the 1st or 7th house, is conjoined another planet, the individual is with someone else. But this "other" planet, isn't one of the main players.

When they mean Venus, its when Venus is not the ruler of the 1st or 7th, and acts as the natural ruler of lust/sex/beauty/women/etc.

In that particular chart (which given by your statement, I'm not sure if it is a real one)...

It would seem to me that:

The Querent chose to separate from the Quesited, perhaps under the suspicion of cheating because of the presence of another person the quesited might have interacted with.

However not sure if the quesited is still interested in the querent at this point. Venus in Leo can have a wide range of interpretations depending if the quesited is a man or a woman.

But they are not getting back together, given that the Querent doesn't really want to. He is hurt and his pride is wounded.

Mars is separating from Venus. At least for some time, they won't be together.
 
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Oddity

Oddity

Well-known member
Tik - as a rule, Venus moves more quickly than Mars. So Venus separates from Mars. Just like the moon separates from Mercury, Venus, Sun, Mars, Jupiter, Saturn. (there's a clue in there ;)
 
byjove

byjove

Account Closed
Oddity said:
Tik - as a rule, Venus moves more quickly than Mars. So Venus separates from Mars. Just like the moon separates from Mercury, Venus, Sun, Mars, Jupiter, Saturn. (there's a clue in there ;)
Click to expand...

I don't get it, Venus generally moves faster than Mars, and is not retrograde here. Is the speed slow? Is Venus approaching a station?
 
Oddity

Oddity

Well-known member
Oh boy.

Venus separates from Mars, because Venus moves more quickly than Mars. The Chaldean order tells you the relative speed of the planets to each other.

It goes: Moon, Mercury, Venus, Sun, Mars, Jupiter, Saturn.

That's all.
 
Oddity

Oddity

Well-known member
LAST TIME.

Tsmall was making a bit of a joke. Dirius said that Mars was separating from Venus. If one is going to be correct, one should say that Venus is separating from Mars. The Chaldean order of the planets shows you the relative speed of the planets to each other.

That is all.
 
tikana

tikana

Well-known member
Oddity said:
LAST TIME.

Tsmall was making a bit of a joke. Dirius said that Mars was separating from Venus. If one is going to be correct, one should say that Venus is separating from Mars. The Chaldean order of the planets shows you the relative speed of the planets to each other.

That is all.
Click to expand...

Dirius is right

Mars is running away from Venus while Venus is chasing Mars.

*grins* you don't make fun of Mars ... it is still a planet! hint hint *points at pluto*
 
tsmall

tsmall

Premium Member
tsmall was making a bit of a joke. Agreed, the conjunction does not perfect in Leo, not because Mars separates from Venus, but because Mars escapes into the next sign before Venus catches him. Jove, yes Venus is moving slow because she is just out of her second station.

The interpretive value in these nuances is extremely important, especially in horary. Which is why I pointed out that Mars is not separating from Venus. That would, were it possible, carry a different meaning.

Venus is chasing Mars after having been conjunct while in her degree of stationing direct. So Venus was standing still while Mars was moving forward. Venus wants to catch up but won't be able to before Mars changes signs. I agree with Dirius (never said I didn't) but it still remains that Mars as the slower planet isn't separating from Venus.
 
byjove

byjove

Account Closed
Thanks for having the patience to explain. :wink:

So, for this chart, what can we say is going on? The querent (Mars) moves on from the quesited (Venus), changes sign (puts Venus in the past??) but when the situation changes a little in the future (change of signs), the quesited, Venus comes back to the querent, Mars?

So, perfection happens some time in the future but not immediately?

Sidenote: as for detecting the stations, are most of us using dedicated software like Solar Fire for this? It's time for me to upgrade I think...
 
tsmall

tsmall

Premium Member
byjove said:
So, perfection happens some time in the future but not immediately?
Click to expand...

Yes, Venus does catch Mars in the 23rd degree of Virgo, which will happen in November. For purposes of this horary though it's a dead issue because both planets will aspect other planets before that happens. If, by some fluke it were to be that the conjunction took place in the next sign without interference then we could have a ball game, though the changing of signs would give clues to the situation. However, as tikana points out, Mars applies to Saturn before changing signs. Interesting here is less what is going on with Venus and Mars and more what is going on with Saturn collecting the light from Mars and Sun.

byjove said:
Sidenote: as for detecting the stations, are most of us using dedicated software like Solar Fire for this? It's time for me to upgrade I think...
Click to expand...

Upgrade from Solar Fire? I mean, I use Delphic Oracle and it does give you planets stationing within 7 days, but seriously all you have to do is look at an ephemeris. I like this one because retrograde planets are shown in red.

http://www.khaldea.com/kldaephem/2000/jan2015gmt.shtml
 
Dirius

Dirius

Well-known member
Oddity and tsmall are correct, Venus is faster and Mars can't be the one to "separate" from her (not by the definition of what separation means for us astrologers). :happy::happy:

But I just implied they are not in applying conjunction while in the remaining of Leo, but rather getting away from each other. Sorry for the bad choice of words. :biggrin:

byjove said:
Thanks for having the patience to explain. :wink:

So, for this chart, what can we say is going on? The querent (Mars) moves on from the quesited (Venus), changes sign (puts Venus in the past??) but when the situation changes a little in the future (change of signs), the quesited, Venus comes back to the querent, Mars?

So, perfection happens some time in the future but not immediately?

Sidenote: as for detecting the stations, are most of us using dedicated software like Solar Fire for this? It's time for me to upgrade I think...
Click to expand...

Here the problem would be to try to "delve too deep" into what will happen. Whatever happens in Virgo (aspects/receptions/etc) is something that happens in a distant future.

If the planets were at the end of Leo (like in degrees 28° and 29°) you could try to see what will happen given that they are just about to change into that sign, and enter that period.
 
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tsmall

tsmall

Premium Member
Dirius said:
Oddity and tsmall are correct, Venus is faster and Mars can't be the one to "separate" from her (not by the definition of what separation means for us astrologers). :happy::happy:
Click to expand...

Actually, Dirius, you bring up a valid point One that I have been debating with friends offline all night.

Dirius;634435But I just implied they are not in applying conjunction while in the remaining of Leo said:
To your point, it is necessary to revisit Chaldean order, and if heavy/light equals the same as swift/slow then we get a different delineation.



Here the problem would be to try to "delve too deep" into what will happen. Whatever happens in Virgo (aspects/receptions/etc) is something that happens in a distant future.

If the planets were at the end of Leo (like in degrees 28° and 29°) you could try to see what will happen given that they are just about to change into that sign, and enter that period.
Click to expand...
 
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