Importance of fast transits to intepretation of slower transits

Usually I don't care that much about the faster transits (luminaries and inner planets) because they are so ethereal. However I was looking at my slower transits (outer planets) and I started wondering if the faster transits can give you an idea about what will happen during the slower transit. For example I have Pluto coming up for a conjunction with natal Venus (yes, I know I like looking at it. It's a nice test case). When it goes exact for the first time the other almost exact transits (< 1 degree) will be Sun conjunct natal Venus, Venus sextile natal Sun, Mars square natal Moon, Mars square natal Neptune. Jupiter is not an inner planet but it will be exactly quintile natal Jupiter.

I'm guessing the Sun conjunct natal Venus and Venus sextile natal Sun hints that there will be a romantic nature to the Pluto transit of Venus. The Mars squares however hints at conflict, which wouldn't be surprising given that this is a Pluto transit. Mars square Moon suggests heightened emotional conflict. Mars square Neptune suggests deception? All in all the faster transits seem to support the general tone of the slower Pluto transit.

If what I think is true about the faster transits acting to provide supplementary evidence might be that if the Mars squares weren't there, maybe the Pluto transit would have less conflict involved. If the Venus/Sun transits weren't there I guess the romantic element would be less likely to manifest.

If there was say a Mars transit to Venus at the time I guess the probability of a high sexual element would increase. If there was an exact Venus transit to Saturn say then maybe this would suggest a strong restraint on any romantic/sexual element of the Pluto transit to Venus.

So do people think that the faster transits which occur at the time of the slower transits help define the character of the slower transit? I'm thinking the faster transits show the events which are happening around the time of the slower transit which can support/not support the nature of the slower transit. I mean you could have a dramatic Pluto conjunct Sun transit but if all the other transits are saying Venus trine Sun, Jupiter trine Sun, etc. etc. then maybe that particular Pluto transit wouldn't be very harsh and the transit would result more in an inner transformation and have less of outward events.

Well, Pluto transits are so long and go back and forth over the same planets so many times that quick transits of the inner planets won't make much difference. However, an inner planet that's stationary direct or stationary retrograde can show its influence, especially if the planet is strongly aspected natally.

Yoi said:

So do people think that the faster transits which occur at the time of the slower transits help define the character of the slower transit?

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Replace "occur at" with "occur around" and I'd say most certainly!

The inner planets can be used to time when events related to the outer planets happen, but it's not just the exact hit of the outers that matters. I try to look within a few weeks, or in the case of a really slow mover like Pluto, Eris or a TNP, out to about 45 arcmin or a degree of the exact aspect, with the applying time being more important than the seperating time. If your software supports it, as Astrolog32 or Solar Fire 6 does, animate the transit chart at a speed where you can observe the planetary motion and aspects being formed in relation to the outer planet aspect, and look for linkages. Sometimes you'll only notice them after the situation occurs, because there are many methods of activation, but regardless, it does work, and hindsight is the first step to foresight.

Lets take an example from my recent past. You were born quite shortly after me, so your Venus is just a little ahead. I had the 2nd hit of the transit you're analyzing a few weeks ago. My natal Venus, which is the ruler of my Libra midheaven, was first hit by Pluto in January this year. It would be apparent there would be big changes and bumps in the workplace or however else one attains their status. For me, at the time, status/career/the MC represented an annoying, less-than-my-potential job where I got little respect and wasn't challenged. I only held on to it because it was easy, secure, and I could study various other things (like astrology) for a good part of the day.. Besides, I felt like I was getting paid pretty good for not having to think much, although there was no satisfaction beyond the paycheck.. Go figure, for me that's quite unfulfilling, as I generally put alot of pride and effort into doing a uniquely good job. Certainly Pluto knows I could be doing more with myself, getting paid better, and putting up with less BS. Then Mars swings around to conjunct Pluto while Pluto is close (<1 degree) to my Venus. The result was not an instant removal from the job, but rather an indirect action, a new boss, who would later fire me. Her first day was the same day as Mars conjuncting Pluto on my Venus. The actual timing of the firing was shown by the Moon, a few months later, as the Moon opposed my Mercury/Uranus conjunction. It's important to understand the job was both analytical (Virgo) and technical (Uranus), and I've longed worked in jobs related to my ME-UR conjunction. I think you've got this aspect too, except your Mercury is direct, mine is retrograde This conjunction was being T-squared by the SA-NE opposition, as you've been through, and when the Moon opposed my conjunction being afflicted by SA-NE, thus forming a transiting T-square, my conjunction completing a cross, it was done with. The midpoint of my ME-UR conjunction, about 1.5 degrees wide, is 21Sco16, and the Moon was at 21Tau19 the minute the broad told me I was gone. Saturn=Career, Neptune=Dissolution, ME/UR = infodork worker (aka me). A pretty clear picture in hindsight! No loss... I wouldn't have minded continuing to suck the easy paycheck, but there are bigger and better things ahead and I'll be making more money and personal satisfaction (the two most important forms of compensation!) soon enough. In the meantime, I'm getting some desperately needed R&R while taking some time to increase my credentials. I suppose it's all part of Venus's grand scheme, as she's not only getting transited by Pluto, but my MC has arced to the VE/PL midpoint and she's at my Sun/Moon midpoint this year in the progressed chart, so obviously it would be a natural indication of some time to enjoy myself. All this VE/PL activity has had many effects on me beyond the Libran MC, mainly focused on getting to know my feminine side (yes, we are all both sexes spiritually), redefining my expectations and desires regarding love relationships, realizing that your job or other form of service needs to make you happy and feel complete, as well as reconnecting and strengthening ties to some lovely family and friends. All in all I've increased my overall sense of balance thus far, and generally have delved into reworking various Venusian things in my life. My passion for music has also been rekindled, finally getting back into doing production work, and really enjoying it, although i have alot to learn. This transit is not really too much different than when Pluto rolled over my Sun, and I tore down and rebuild my ego, other than the focus is on different areas of life... Although the Pluto-Sun transit was MUCH further reaching and quite a bit more intense. That transit set such a long-term map and redefined such a large piece of me I still (~12 years later) remember there was once an "old me", the me before Pluto "did up" my solar plexus!

Generally the slower planets, sort of like the commander of a battle, open the breach, stuff in the bullet, close it up, and throw the loaded gun at a foot soldier, usually a fast-moving planet, to pull the trigger. The inner planets have the responsibility of bringing the outer planet's energy closer to earth, acting as energy magnets, you could say.

In that sense, be mindful of lunar returns! She's great at casting energy down to earth. Did you know you can bounce a radio signal off the Moon with commonly available (although large) radio equipment and receive it back on earth thousands of miles away? (details Here for the curious) That's how reflective she is I've seen many, many times where people have outer planet transits amplified and brought to the forefront by a lunar return. Often a outer planet transit that is highlighted on a lunar return becomes very active that month. This is doubly the case if the outer planet transit involves the Moon, although a transit to another object, say Neptune transiting Venus, could still be highlighted on a lunar return. Say, for example, that at the lunar return the Neptune-Venus square is at close orb, and Mercury just happed to stop in on one of the two void points, forming a t-square in the lunar return transit chart. Then you could certainly expect major events that month, probably quite a message about what's up with the transit, and what you're doing (or not doing) as Mercury tends to like to announce things. Venus might make us look for harmony and ways to balance, Mars prod us to take action, Moon to reflect, Sun to focus our will and power, etc. Also, in the case of outer planet conjunctions or oppositions to natal inner planets, if the conjunction or oppositions straddles an angle of the local lunar return chart, it's important indication of prominence of that transit.

Let me know if I've confused you, it is a bit early and Mercury is basically stationary at this point, although for some reason I felt like writing on this

I've never been able to make exact predictions for events involving the very slow moving planets like pluto & neptune by the transits of the inner ones, especially sun, moon, mercury and venus. But I can spot them in retrospect.

For the outer ones, predictions are easier (more me) if saturn, jupiter or mars are involved. I love the challenge of predictive astrology but sometimes my feeble mind has a difficult time melding all the influences.

Thanks unukhalhai for your insights.

I like this part especially:

unukalhai said:

Generally the slower planets, sort of like the commander of a battle, open the breach, stuff in the bullet, close it up, and throw the loaded gun at a foot soldier, usually a fast-moving planet, to pull the trigger. The inner planets have the responsibility of bringing the outer planet's energy closer to earth, acting as energy magnets, you could say.

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Are lunar returns really that important? I never payed much attention to lunar movements before...

BTW if you don't mind, I was wondering if you could tell me what house your Venus is in? Your account of your Pluto transit of Venus is very interesting and I am interested to see how important the house is. My Venus is in the 8th house and rules the 6th house (Libra) only. My Taurus is intercepted. The 8th house ruler Jupiter will be aspected by the transiting Pluto as well since natal Jupiter is trine natal Venus. I guess that's probably the same as your chart though since you were born only a short while before me. Actually you probably have the Mars/Jupiter conjunction in Virgo as well. What was your experience of the transiting Pluto trining the natal Mars/Jupiter conjunction?

And yes, I do have the Mercury/Uranus conjunction as well I wonder how much difference the fact that your Mercury is retrograde and mine is direct makes...

Yoi said:

Thanks unukhalhai for your insights.

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Your welcome

Are lunar returns really that important? I never payed much attention to lunar movements before...

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I wondered for a while myself. I read over Townley's book "Lunar Returns" in the local book reseller's shop, but didn't really think they were going to be important enough so I didn't buy the book. I extracted a little knowledge from it, and started to glance over my lunar returns. Maybe it's just because I have my Moon in a fairly powerful spot, being the only major object on the bottom half of the chart, but I'm fairly convinced the lunar returns are _really_ important. I've followed mine for almost a year now, and the charts for the "hot" ones (the returns that show strong aspects) do work. I ended up tracking down the book a few months later, and I highly recommend it if you're curious about the lunar returns. It has 100 pages devoted to interpreting the return aspects alone, and many other good pieces of info. At 244 pages covering a single subject, the lunar return, it's quite the complete work. The ISBN is 0-7387-0302-8.

Recently I've started to think the Moon is a vastly important object in any chart, and that I have potentially slighted it for all too long. Obviously, being one of the luminaries, it's going to be important, but it's fast motion and highly reflective nature, along with being the closest object to us physically, make a strong case for it to be watched carefully.

A nice thing about lunar returns is their "here and now" nature. Since each chart shows details for that specific month, we get a recent, up to date picture of what's going on.

BTW if you don't mind, I was wondering if you could tell me what house your Venus is in? Your account of your Pluto transit of Venus is very interesting and I am interested to see how important the house is.

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Natally, 12th house, 3 degrees 41 min above the ascendant. 1st house in the relocated chart. 2nd house in the progressed charts of either my birthplace or current residence. Sagittarius natal, progressed to Capricorn. Natally separating from a square to Saturn, applying a sextile to Moon. Natally rules 5th (Taurus) and 10th (Libra) houses. It seems her rulerships are the important factor, for me atleast...

My Venus is in the 8th house and rules the 6th house (Libra) only. My Taurus is intercepted. The 8th house ruler Jupiter will be aspected by the transiting Pluto as well since natal Jupiter is trine natal Venus.

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Neat setup, if you can avoid Venus feeling a bit uneasy in Capricorn under restrictive Saturn's dispositorship; although wonderful for keeping yourself clear of shallow, meaningless relationships. Venus has little quams about the 8th house, brings out her naughty side, affords a pleasant passing and a degree of protection from lethal dangers.. and a fun attraction to all things forbidden!

Have you explored the interception much? I honestly haven't studied interceptions enough to really grasp them yet.

Had a quick look over your chart, by no means complete, but the times that stick out, to me atleast:

Late Feb 2011 Pluto&Moon will conjunct Venus while Jupiter squares. This is certainly one of the interesting times to ponder. Feb 27 2011, 8:54 UTC on that one. This is a quadruple transit to your Venus, with four orbs under 10arcmin: Moon&Pluto conjunct, Jupiter square, and Neptune septile, the last of which a fairly minor consideration IMHO. This should be one of the hotter moments in the cycle, possibly the "kickoff" to the cycle, but far too early in the cycle to be very decisive. Might set the overall tone.

Dec 29 2011 has Sun&Pluto conjunct just a few arcmin from your Venus, although not a quadruple transit as the Feb 27th one is, and without alot of other action going on unless I'm missing something. Regardless, the illumination of the Sun at this point will likely be beneficial, hopefully allowing you to get a better idea of what you've been facing with Pluto...

Aug 15 2012 features a Pluto/Venus opposition just a few arcmin from your Venus, with the nodes right across your ASC/DSC axis, north on your DSC. This likely indicates an important event, given the Venus-Venus opposition and north node (progress, path forward) on your descendant. If you find yourself in a restrictive, unfruitful relationship at this time, you probably won't be for long... On the other hand, the nodes deal alot with karmic connections to other people, so very possible you'll run into someone who really has an impact on you at this point.

Sep 08 2012 has the Uranus-Pluto square lining up with your Venus, while Chiron sextiles Venus. Mars opposes your Chiron, and there's a tight-orbed Uranus-Uranus trioctile. I'd have to say this is probably the last kick in the pants for this transit cycle, and a drop-kick at that! The UR-PL cycle is quite the rebellious one, so it seems this transit ends with you breaking down any Venusian thing (relationships and value systems are probably the most likely targets) that has restricted your freedom and sense of self. This may carry a price, but also an equal reward.

I encourage you to check these out for yourself, and study them in more detail, as you know how the planets work for you better than anyone else

I guess that's probably the same as your chart though since you were born only a short while before me. Actually you probably have the Mars/Jupiter conjunction in Virgo as well. What was your experience of the transiting Pluto trining the natal Mars/Jupiter conjunction?

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Not within orb yet... Pluto has to roll over my 2nd degree Capricorn ascendant, which is probably going to way overshadow the trine to 3rd degree Virgo Mars! That is going to be an interesting period, to say the least. My Sun's already been Pluto-ized, my image is up next, after these messages from Venus <lol>. Should be fun, just hoping to avoid any run-ins with physical death and hoping to keep along the lines of symbolic deaths of outdated pieces of myself. I enjoy those. I should buy a mafia-style trenchcoat for the transit over the ascendant, that just sounds fun and fitting <lol>

unukalhai said:

Maybe it's just because I have my Moon in a fairly powerful spot, being the only major object on the bottom half of the chart, but I'm fairly convinced the lunar returns are _really_ important.

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Hmm. My Moon is the only object in the left hand side of my chart so maybe I should start following lunar returns too...

Natally, 12th house, 3 degrees 41 min above the ascendant. 1st house in the relocated chart. 2nd house in the progressed charts of either my birthplace or current residence. Sagittarius natal, progressed to Capricorn. Natally separating from a square to Saturn, applying a sextile to Moon. Natally rules 5th (Taurus) and 10th (Libra) houses. It seems her rulerships are the important factor, for me atleast...

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So, what's a 12th house Venus like? Do you think that your experience with Pluto going over your Venus is affected by the fact that it is in the 12th house?

Neat setup, if you can avoid Venus feeling a bit uneasy in Capricorn under restrictive Saturn's dispositorship; although wonderful for keeping yourself clear of shallow, meaningless relationships. Venus has little quams about the 8th house, brings out her naughty side, affords a pleasant passing and a degree of protection from lethal dangers.. and a fun attraction to all things forbidden!

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I have Saturn in Virgo in the 5th house too. *Sigh* I just can't have fun.

Have you explored the interception much? I honestly haven't studied interceptions enough to really grasp them yet.

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No, actually.I'm not sure what interceptions really mean.

Had a quick look over your chart, by no means complete, but the times that stick out, to me atleast:

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Thanks for the tips!

Not within orb yet... Pluto has to roll over my 2nd degree Capricorn ascendant, which is probably going to way overshadow the trine to 3rd degree Virgo Mars! That is going to be an interesting period, to say the least. My Sun's already been Pluto-ized, my image is up next, after these messages from Venus <lol>. Should be fun, just hoping to avoid any run-ins with physical death and hoping to keep along the lines of symbolic deaths of outdated pieces of myself. I enjoy those. I should buy a mafia-style trenchcoat for the transit over the ascendant, that just sounds fun and fitting <lol>

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I never had (and never will have) Pluto going over my Ascendant, but Pluto did go over my descendant and it was the time when I really started thinking about relationships, not just romantic ones but romantic ones per se. This was sparked off by the death of a close family member which occurred when Pluto was exact on my Descendant. Then it hit my Sun shortly afterwards. *sigh*.