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  #1  
Unread 10-12-2012, 11:02 AM
Talaria Talaria is offline
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Integrating Conflicting Points in Natal Charts

I've been trying to get a little better at natal chart interpretation, and I'm currently mystified by this: I have a Gemini descendant, which from what I understand means I hate to settle down and essentially have a fear of commitment, which is true. But I also have Venus in Taurus in the fourth house. Shouldn't that mean I'm freakishly monogamous? Which one wins that argument?

Meanwhile, I'm looking at a friend's chart, and she has Saturn at 29 Taurus conjunct Venus at 04 Gemini, opposite Jupiter at 28 Scorpio conjunct Neptune in retrograde at 01 Sagittarius. I'm still not clear on how to read a conjunction blending two different signs, or even if you ARE supposed to read conjunctions when the orb blends two different signs. It's further complicated by the opposition going on there, and I'm at a loss with how to interpret that.

Any ideas on either point would be appreciated.

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Unread 10-12-2012, 10:15 PM
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Re: Integrating Conflicting Points in Natal Charts

Can you post the charts? Especially where you see conflict in individual aspects, you have to get the bigger picture. A difficult aspect may be mitigated by something else in the chart.

Gemini on the DC could indicate your fear of settling down with one person, but it may also mean you would be happy with someone who exemplifies Gemini's characteristics of mental alertness, facility with conversation, and wide-ranging interests. For sure look at what Mercury is doing to get a clearer indication of your 7th house.

So we could imagine one person with Gemini on the 7th, but perhaps her sun and Mercury are in the couples-oriented sign of Libra, in the friendship-minded 11th house. She might want a spouse who is also her best friend. Whereas somebone else might have her sun and Mercury in the independent sign of Aries, in the play-the-field 5th house.

The 4th house indicates your home, early childhood conditioning, and sense of roots. There is a debate as to whether the IC indicates your father or mother, but there is a sense of your family here. It really doesn't indicate your romantic interests, which would be 5th or 7th house matters.

Even if you're a very solo kind of person, you might nevertheless want the stability (Taurus) of owning your own home, and would probably have an innate sense of taste (Venus) in home furnishings, unless Venus is really afflicted by something else going on in the chart.

One of the best ways I know to read a chart is to consider conjunctions as two planets being "joined at the hip." Neither one goes anywhere without the other. Before looking at signs, simply think about what the planets represent.

Then a planet gives you the "what", like the subject of a sentence. The sign tells how "how" or "in what manner" a planet operates; like an adjective or adverb. The house indicates "where" or in "what domain of life" a planet operates. Aspects add the dynamic quality to your astro-sentence. Is the relationship between two planets going to be stressful, pleasant, or exciting?

Note also that people are inherently contradictory beings. We are torn by conflicting goals. This is how a woman might not want the stifling aspects of marriage, yet might very much want a stable home life which, given her upbringing and culture, necessarily includes a husband and children.

It is important to read widely in astrology. Each planet, sign, and house has multiple meanings. One book I recommend for beginners is Steven Forrest, The Inner Sky.
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  #3  
Unread 10-13-2012, 01:49 AM
Talaria Talaria is offline
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Re: Integrating Conflicting Points in Natal Charts

Here are the charts; can't believe I didn't think to post them already. Having Venus in the fourth house doesn't really seem to describe my childhood at all, or my family. Aries on the IC is a little closer to depicting my upbringing, but Venus wandering through there? Not so much. Venus in Taurus doesn't seem to suit me at all, at least thus far, and Venus's house position is making less and less sense the more I research it. It is in opposition to Saturn and Pluto in the tenth, so maybe that has something to do with it?

In the second chart, I'm slowly going from confused to lost. I even tried running both charts with Koch instead of Placidus, but that made even less sense.
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Unread 10-13-2012, 02:03 AM
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JUPITERASC JUPITERASC is offline
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Re: Integrating Conflicting Points in Natal Charts

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Originally Posted by Talaria View Post
Here are the charts; can't believe I didn't think to post them already. Having Venus in the fourth house doesn't really seem to describe my childhood at all, or my family. Aries on the IC is a little closer to depicting my upbringing, but Venus wandering through there? Not so much. Venus in Taurus doesn't seem to suit me at all, at least thus far, and Venus's house position is making less and less sense the more I research it. It is in opposition to Saturn and Pluto in the tenth, so maybe that has something to do with it?

In the second chart, I'm slowly going from confused to lost. I even tried running both charts with Koch instead of Placidus, but that made even less sense.
Talaria, there are more than thirty different house systems and the house location of a planet is entirely dependent on which is chosen as you have discovered. Experiment with creating each chart in whole signs and then checking whether that makes more sense - just my two cents worth
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Unread 10-13-2012, 04:49 AM
Talaria Talaria is offline
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Re: Integrating Conflicting Points in Natal Charts

Thanks Jupiter, but so far I've run my chart with Koch, Regiomontanus and Campanus (and a couple others that I don't remember) and not only do they all place Venus in my fourth house, but they place all my planets in the same houses that Placidus does. The only thing that seems to change is the position of the house cusps, and Placidus wipes the floor with the other systems as far as accuracy in that department (at least for me). I intend to experiment with more house systems in the future, but at this point I think I should probably master reading natal charts made with Placidus before I try to learn thirty new ways to make one, lol. Besides, at this point I can't figure out if Venus should be in my fourth house for reasons I don't understand. I'm having trouble figuring out where exactly Venus in Taurus fits me, because nothing in my life ruled by Venus has a Taurus spin, and Venus's sign isn't going to change no matter how I mark the houses up.
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Unread 10-13-2012, 05:01 AM
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Re: Integrating Conflicting Points in Natal Charts

Talaria, I find these charts hard to read. See if the free charts at Astrodienst www.astro.com are easier to interpret. I take it that the first chart is your natal chart. What is the second one?

The house system you use can make a difference if planets are close to a house cusp. You might play around with a few and see which one seems like the best match for you.

In an unequal or quadrant house method like Placidus, you would have Aries on the cusp of your 4th house, with a very strong Mars in its own sign of Aries in the 4th. This would give your home life a more combative edge than a peace-loving Venus in Taurus would suggest. Despite your inherently adaptive go-with-the-flow Pisces nature, this Mars gives you a strong feisty streak!

Venus in Taurus might give you a good artistic sense, a sense of good taste, and even some singing talent. However, it is opposed by two planetary heavies: Saturn and Pluto. Venus might have been suppressed by senior authority figures and bullies; especially given your mutable and 12th house placements. But Venus is "at home" in her own sign of Taurus. Whatever seems good and true and beautiful to you: trust your instincts on them.

Astrology does require us to master hundreds of data bytes. This can seem overwhelming. I recommend you pick up some good books and websites on natal chart interpretation, and just be prepared to be a novice for several years, while the data bits and pieces take their time to sink in.

A bit of astrological technique that I find very helpful is to look at house cusp rulers ("lords".) As in, with Aries on your 4th house cusp, Mars by its own house and aspect will have a lot to say about your 4th house matters.

Although each planet, sign, and house has dozens of meanings, in terms of a natal chart reading, perhaps it is easiest just to memorize the core meanings.

Sun: sense of self, your core identity
Moon: needs, emotional nature, Mom, home
Mercury: mental nature
Venus: what you attract, what you find attractive. rules the arts
Mars: your innate assertiveness and aggression. rules athletes
Jupiter: the principle of expansion and optimism
Saturn: the principle of restriction and fear, but it responds well to patience, reality-checks, and hard work
Uranus: sudden change
Neptune: illusion or disillusionment
Pluto: rthless, inevitable change, but also the power for positive transformation

Houses: domains of life. These are not the same as signs, although some modern astrologers confuse them.

Signs: Here it is best to think of the 4 elements (earth=practical, material; air=ideas; fire=enthusiasm, action; water=emotional) and whether the sign is cardinal (initiative), fixed (stay-the-course) or mutable (adaptable, changeable.) So Taurus as a fixed earth sign is inherently material in its outlook on life, but also has fixity of purpose. Gemini likes the world of ideas, and is very nimble in its approach to them.

Then each sign has its own ruler (Mars=Aries, Taurus=Venus, Gemini=Mercury, &c)

Yes, each sign has its own personality quirks, but these typically follow from the basic building blocks of the signs.

Once you've sort of figured these out, then look at how the planets operate. Think of them like family members in a discussion. Some don't get along and even actively oppose one another's interests. Some are great pals. Others feel a lot of friction or tension together. Nobody is a unified entity: people are inherently messy and contradictory. We often feel conflicts between different parts of ourselves. Astrology shows this.

Confusion when you are just learning astrology is normal.
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My friends, love is better than anger. Hope is better than fear. Optimism is better than despair. So let us be loving, hopeful and optimistic. And we’ll change the world. Jack Layton, "Letter to Canadians"

I thought we went along paths--but it seems there are no paths. The going itself is the path.
C.S. Lewis, Perelandra.

Life is not about finding yourself. Life is about creating yourself. Message on a refrigerator magnet.
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Unread 10-13-2012, 05:20 AM
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Re: Integrating Conflicting Points in Natal Charts

Quote:
Originally Posted by Talaria View Post
Thanks Jupiter, but so far I've run my chart with Koch, Regiomontanus and Campanus (and a couple others that I don't remember) and not only do they all place Venus in my fourth house, but they place all my planets in the same houses that Placidus does. The only thing that seems to change is the position of the house cusps, and Placidus wipes the floor with the other systems as far as accuracy in that department (at least for me). I intend to experiment with more house systems in the future, but at this point I think I should probably master reading natal charts made with Placidus before I try to learn thirty new ways to make one, lol. Besides, at this point I can't figure out if Venus should be in my fourth house for reasons I don't understand. I'm having trouble figuring out where exactly Venus in Taurus fits me, because nothing in my life ruled by Venus has a Taurus spin, and Venus's sign isn't going to change no matter how I mark the houses up.
Each house has multiple meanings. In any person's life, one or two will be more prominent, while the others may recede into the background. You have to work with the chart for a while to see which of the many possible meanings are consistent with other parts of the chart, and which ones aren't.

The 4th house includes: early childhood conditioning, one's house, ancestry, parents, land in the sense of home (vs. real estate in the sense of an investment), one's homeland, aunts and uncles; plus meanings derived from "turned" or "derived" house methods, horary, medical, and mundane astrology.

So we might imagine Venus in Taurus in the 4th as someone who is a gardener, or who lives (or wants to live) in a rural area. An afflicted Venus in the 4th might indicate a difficult childhood with an opposition from Saturn-Pluto. Saturn supposedly represents the father in a night birth, and Pluto can add a dimension of ruthlessness to his character.

Venus in a woman's chart can be her sense of femininity and female sexuality (in keeping with Venus's attraction principle.) Venus also represents the arts, luxury items, relationships, and some modern astrologers would say money.

So you have to play around with these various meanings until you find the sign-house-planet combo that fits. When you do, it's a bit like the experience of finally getting the combination lock to open.

Then pull in the planets in aspect. Maybe with Saturn-Pluto opposite Venus in the 4th, a young child was made to feel ashamed of her female attractiveness or sexuality. Maybe there was never enough money in the home when she was growing up, as Saturn is the scarcity principle.

And so on. The combination lock has just added more numbers, but eventually we see how they all fit and the lock opens.

Astrology is above all a work of synthesis.
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My friends, love is better than anger. Hope is better than fear. Optimism is better than despair. So let us be loving, hopeful and optimistic. And we’ll change the world. Jack Layton, "Letter to Canadians"

I thought we went along paths--but it seems there are no paths. The going itself is the path.
C.S. Lewis, Perelandra.

Life is not about finding yourself. Life is about creating yourself. Message on a refrigerator magnet.
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