Assuming the Worst or Preparing for the Worst? Saturn.

well, saturn does get the burdensome rap most of the time, but i would look to house cap rules in chart to see where the burdens are manifested. saturn in 5th, with neptune ruling 5th, would give fortitude to neptunes compassion and dreams and also likely a good sense of "psychic humor". then again, chiron in 5th with saturn, could indicate a direction needed of healing through play. as we get older, saturn eases up in our charts, lets his hair down and exposes his youthful side more easily.

by the way, a good friend of mine is having neptune transit conj. her saturn right now and she's been doubting herself in ways i've never seen before.
i wonder if you are experiencing that?

Just lately I have been thinking that Saturn embodies that expression, "it is what it is." Saturn will show you exactly what it is, warts and all. Then he'll ask you what you're going to do about it.

No. its definitley the saturn in the 12th H and sitting on my natal libra mars.its will be there until oct. its holding me back and Im looking back too much particularly the last 7 years.

my natal saturn has taken some big hits over that time. I have another 14 years before neptune gets to saturn and to be honest I think it will be ok!

I started to write - creatively, last year after many many years. I use crystals now(again started 2010). I also make clothes. all saturn in 5th H stuff.

I agree with Tsmail it does make you look at stuff really clearly - as I said before it is reality and that can be quite brutal. right now it is brutal!

but it will pass.

well i dont know exactly what saturn is doing for me - - my natal saturn is in 3 hpuse ( Cancer sign ) - - i am a tauras ascendant - - many says Saturn is a yogkarak for taurians as owing kendra and trikona- -

currently its in my 12 house from MOON and i am running Ven/saturn dasha

tsmall said:

Just lately I have been thinking that Saturn embodies that expression, "it is what it is." Saturn will show you exactly what it is, warts and all. Then he'll ask you what you're going to do about it.

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Absolutely!!!!

Saturn says, "2+2=4. Always has, and always will."

Jupiter says, "I have faith that 2+2=5!"

Neptune says, "Let's make a wish and then 2+2=3!"

In the matter of balancing my checking account, I'm with Saturn.

Saturn isn't the enemy. Ignoring his old-fashioned lessons and hard-headed reality-checks are problematic.

MaeMae said:

Garden ~
I feel sadness but resolve, strength and courage in your words.
It would be interesting to see your daughter's birthchart in overlay of yours.
The Saturnian afflictions of joint disease and possibly Sun vitality challenges of your daughter sounds like saturn/moon/sun hitched rides in your charts.
you are realistic about it, dealing with the matters at hand, and still making progress. i hope that thatoffer's you a bit of regard for saturn and his merciful way when he knows the burden is heavy.
Have you considered posting your daughter's / your chart in medical astrology forum?
there are some interesting responders with magnificent information based on their years of studies.

Thank you for giving us a reminder of how Saturn works even when things seem unbearable.

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MaeMae, I think I will take your advice and post our charts on the Medical Forum.

Ahhh, Saturn! How do I love thee! Let me count the ways!!

I'm in love with this planet, really. Being a rising Capricorn, it is the ruler of my chart....and what a fine ruler it is! How fine is it, you ask? Well, it's fine enough to occupy the most prominent position in any natal chart: at the very top! The Midheaven!

Yep, I have Saturn in Scorpio conjunct the Midheaven. Technically, it's at the tail-end of my 9th House, but it can easily be interpreted in the 10th House as well.

How has it treated me? Not bad, I guess. It opposes my moon (which is conjunct the IC) and conjuncts Pluto. I wouldn't say this is a "rough" placement. It's more like there's a constant theme of career vs. family power play taking place in my life (and every time, I must choose career if I'm to feel any sort of sanity).

With regard to education, I've recently reunited with my initial career interest (pathology ----> medical school), so that's what I have to pursue. Beloved Saturn gives me the extremely (EXTREMELY) competitive nature to withstand ANY and ALL academic tasks set before me. I literally seek to crush the competition when it comes to schoolwork...I've always been that way, and I get sadistic thrills out of being the best in my class (and always will be...it IS in my chart, after all).

However, trying to get my academic credentials to become a doctor is going to be a very long, arduous process...and I have to take a more roundabout way to getting this particular degree. It's definitely not going to be handed to me in as direct a manner as possible. I literally have to go into a few hundred thousand dollars of debt in order to achieve what I want to accomplish (I thank my loaded 8th House for that one!). However, since Venus/Mars/Sun are making mostly trines to other planets from the 8th House, I'll eventually pay everything off someday.

But yeah, right now, Pluto is conjunct my Ascendant, and I'm beginning my Master's degree in Pathology. Later this year, my Saturn return occurs in late October (and Saturn will be conjunct my Ascendant around 2018). Between 2016 and 2018 is exactly when I want to start medical school.

I think the timing of all this is pretty accurate, right? I hope one of the meanings for my first Saturn Return is the beginning of a new educational cycle in my life...this time, on a more adult professional level. Could this actually be setting me up to go to medical school in my 30s???

Whatcha think?

i hear jupiter, not saturn, in your confidence.
however saturn obviously present in your ambition, along in there with mars? saturn returns are definitely a time of getting serious and letting go of frivolity in purpose. it's the first time in our lives where we no longer talk about where we've been and what we've done, but rather talk about where we are and where we're going.
So important by this age to have solid value systems in place, or saturn will realize he's only dealing with half-possibilities and will address it at the following square, after the inbetween sextile has worn a new groove in the road. when values are in place at saturn return, he is easier on us at square.
when we are saying one thing and doing another, that's when he gets testy.
Values defined?
well, that's another topic for saturn discussions.

Excellent assessment! I personally feel like this is going to be a rather easy Saturn Return for me. I wonder if Rising Capricorns tend to have an easy time in general with their Saturn Returns (being how Saturn is their Ascendant ruler, and potentially chart ruler as well).
It's like I know what I'm supposed to do, and I know who I am to become. It's just a matter of DOING IT! That's really all it is, and for me, it's going to take my entire 30s decade to accomplish it (while going into loads of debt...there's the Scorpio element in my Saturn in Scorpio!). It just seems so eerily relevant. If I DON'T get into medical school during my 30s, then I'll discredit astrology immediately. That's how confident I feel about all of this.

For four years now I have not had ONE hard saturn transit. Could you imagine. I think saturn can be both good and bad so to speak. Some years ago I had somekind of dream come true in my career with saturn on my MC then in my tenth. About almost five years ago now saturn was opp my natal moon. Well was that a lot of crying. I was so sad so hartbroken. Also saturn trine sun was quite a good one. It actually happened during a long transit of neptune square sun, and maybe saturn made it possible to see a bit clearer every now and then.

The worst thing that has been on my agenda lately was pluto opp progressed sun three times last year. That was a real killer and unfortunately it will come back again in september, this time with the exact square from uranus AND saturn oppostion my natal venus.

Frankly I´m not sure how I´ll survive.

In my case saturn return was not hard at all. But way back then it moved along with jupiter so I also had jupiter conj saturn (and jupiter in seventh conj sun too).

So at the moment, just having realised the way stars lie in september I guess I´m assuming the worst.


PS. PD I heard a capricorn going to the mental institution with saturn return. ...

"About almost five years ago now saturn was opp my natal moon. Well was that a lot of crying. I was so sad so hartbroken." [sic]

That transit just occurred for me last month, and boy, was I upset! My already-divided family got even MORE divided. My parents split up in the mid-90s, and I lost all contact with my father's side of the family in the early 2000s. Now my mother's side of the family is taking a beating: My mom jumped her sister (my aunt) in January, so they completely stopped talking. My brother jumped ME in early February, and we no longer talk. He's basically non-existent to me and was always a polar opposite to me. I'm also completely avoiding my grandmother because she loves to play favorites with the family (i.e. buying my uncle a house in Florida and giving my brother a minivan that belonged to my grandfather when he was still alive....both my uncle and brother being the "babies" of the family, by the way). I'm absolutely sick and tired of that. Where's my hand-out?? Because I've never gotten any freebies from her, I feel like she excluded me. Well now she can suffer in her misery all cooped up in that house of hers....Because I've been excluded, I will stay excluded and never talk to that old crone again.

It's really disgusting, but it figures: Saturn in 9th/cusp of 10th opposing my Moon (mother) on cusp of 4th House (family). In less than 3 weeks, I move to another state to go for my Master's degree. I'm really so excited for this, and I know that Saturn is behind me 100%. When I leave, I most likely will never be moving back home again (Saturn Return power will make that a reality).

Little do they all know that I will be the MOST successful member of my family, and I'll be doing it MY WAY and actually EARNING everything I reap from hard work!!!! That alone will give me the greatest satisfaction ever, and I hope my 30s will be FILLED with hard academic work so that I can rise to the top of my career (medicine). I swear to all the deities in past and present existence...I WILL go to medical school one way or another. Are you listening, Saturn?!

P.S. About the mental institution: been there, done that. I have the South Node in the 12th House conjunct Neptune . That was a previous life, dear...not this one.

Ugh, talk about non existing family ties---

My saturn - moon thing was with a lover. The family issues was before, long time ago. I guess I was pretty harrassed by pluto then.

It seems natural what you say about moon in fourth and mother issue.

Good luck w studies!

interesting thread here on saturn.. i liked what persphonesdawn mentioned about saturn being more feminine then masculine.. i think that has a ring of truth to it for me..

presently i am about to go into the t neptune square my rising saturn vortex.. i am in my 50's so have lived thru different saturn transits and think like others have mentioned - saturn is a reality check.. i suppose it depends on the person whether they want a reality check or not..

i seem to recall having a conversation with maemae about liz greene and her book on saturn - 'a new look at an old devil'.. i read it back in my 20's and thought it was excellent for the wisdom and compassion towards saturn that was expressed.. the image of beauty and the beast was used as an analogy to suggest the beast - saturn , could be turned into the beauty if we could get close to it and give it a kiss.. most people don't want to, or are afraid to.. i suppose that would include me.

with this transit of neptune to saturn, i wonder how much of my world or the structure's i have built up and feel secure within, are going to come undone, or dis-solve and leave me with less of a solidness.. these are some of the questions i wonder about.. i don't think i am assuming or preparing for the worst, but on some level i think that is one way that we like to protect ourselves from the future.. we think about what we can do to protect the present and keep what we have... we might even do this when the structures have outlived their usefulness.. at what point does saturn let go? is there an alchemical transformation awaiting saturn, or does it only work for pluto? these are some of the astro questions i ponder as i move into the future, not knowing what is in store for me.. moon in scorpio today has been an interesting and minor passing phase bringing up different under-currents.. maybe it has to do with something else.. i am open to that.. maybe it is t neptune about a degree from my natal saturn by square.. just thinking out loud as t saturn is also 1 degree off conjunction to my neptune.. things are more tentative in some respects and i don't think i am on as solid ground.. maybe i never was, but i might not have looked so closely at this up until more recently..

Gwenyhfair said:

Ugh, talk about non existing family ties---

My saturn - moon thing was with a lover. The family issues was before, long time ago. I guess I was pretty harrassed by pluto then.

It seems natural what you say about moon in fourth and mother issue.

Good luck w studies!

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When you said that your family issues occurred a long time ago, were they pretty severe? Like, enough to sever all ties with certain family members?

And thanks for the well wishes!

sandstone ~
my friend, born in '65, has saturn pisces on mc and she has expressed the same as you are.
ahe has lived a very structured and directed life for the 30 years i've known her.
she has always been a "seeker" but has had that cold saturn mountain mc to keep her questioning others weaknesses ~ and worse, condemning them.
she has admitted recently that she is now lost.
her lucrative small business has thrived, her relationships off balance, her yogi~ness ~ everything has come to question and for first time i see her not knowing what to do, what direction she's going, and the man she's with has clear set values and she feels inadequate.
neptune to saturn ~ and saturn being in neptune's sign ( for this saturn pisces crowd) ~ asking do you want to break or can you bend?
my friend says she wants to " bend " ~ adapt ~
yet she's apparently unable.
saturn calcifies.

saturn in sag rising in the first is different then on the 10th.. thanks for sharing your friends world.. nothing can be taken in isolation.. the whole chart needs to be understood.. you have heard this many times before, i am sure.. we take it all apart, but it is held together by all the different parts as well..

hi way bread - - i agree saturn really test ones patience and it teaches detachment as its associate with real things No fancy