When discovering career/job don't look towards the 6th house!

Dr. Farr, thanks. Your post made me think that maybe the 8th house isn't such a bad place, after all. As you know, I've been reading up on astrology in ancient times, and the 8th had a pretty rotten reputation with that crowd.

Anachiel, I wasn't trying to offend you. There is such a thing as a commitment to service that goes beyond working in the "service sector" or occasional volunteering; where service becomes more of a life-focus.

Volunteering could be an 11th house matter if we consider that a lot of service is conducted through organized groups like non-profit societies. However, the 11th house doesn't focus on the principle of service as a commitment, so far as I know; as many social groups do not have a service orientation.

If people have the sun or a lot of other personal planets in the 6th house, or the ruler of the 10th in the 6th, then we might wish to look deeper than the dismissive attitude that some astrologers have about the 6th house. Of course, the 6th also relates to illness/health and the two concepts can overlap with people in the health care professions.

waybread said:

Anachiel, I wasn't trying to offend you. There is such a thing as a commitment to service that goes beyond working in the "service sector" or occasional volunteering; where service becomes more of a life-focus.

Volunteering could be an 11th house matter if we consider that a lot of service is conducted through organized groups like non-profit societies. However, the 11th house doesn't focus on the principle of service as a commitment, so far as I know; as many social groups do not have a service orientation.

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None taken. Not at all!

I see your perspective but, we just have to agree to disagree but, I always enjoy a good civil tete-a-tete. Keeps me thinking.

By the way, I think the 11th house would be more of a voluntary commitment. The 6th would really be more involuntary commitment since it is a house in indentured servitude and generally ruled servants which, in older times, would not really quite equate to an employee in modern times.

People may differ on this idea and certainly it might come down to splitting hairs. However, the essence of what the ancients were trying to tell us about the 6th was it was a house of illness and toil rather than any sort of voluntary aspiration or affiliation like the 10th/11th. At least, that is my take on the matter for what it is worth.

Barack Obama has sun, Mercury, and possibly Uranus (depending on the house system) in his 6th house.

I am aware of the bad reputation of the 6th house in Hellenistic astrology. Today, I think we can take a broader view of it.

waybread said:

Barack Obama has sun, Mercury, and possibly Uranus (depending on the house system) in his 6th house.

I am aware of the bad reputation of the 6th house in Hellenistic astrology. Today, I think we can take a broader view of it.

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Ya, but planets in the 6th does not mean that they are in a state of toil or servitude. There are also many people with no planets in the 6th house who are in far worse positions of servitude than Pres. Obama is.

Vedic astrology also shares the dismal view of the 6th house: but remember, it can be the 6th from any significator, from any house which is serving as the focal center for analysis; as well as the 6th from the ascendant.

I am not so dismal as Traditional and Vedic are about the 6th house, heck, it covers pets!! But then again, in astro-therapeutics it is one of the main places we look at for intimations of possible health problems (but then we also look at the first as well, but when we look at the first it is more for indications of health strengths or strength of vital force)

Anachiel said:

Ya, but planets in the 6th does not mean that they are in a state of toil or servitude. There are also many people with no planets in the 6th house who are in far worse positions of servitude than Pres. Obama is.

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Right...traditional and vedic look at the 6th house as the work of essentially slave labor or being a servant as well as health issues. I think we can look at it now as more of being SELFLESS rather than doing things for self aggrandizement. I have sun, mercury, mars and pluto in the sixth

retinoid said:

I have a sun, mercury, mars and pluto in the sixth house and the cusp is scorpio...so idk

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So those planets are in Scorpio? Welcome to the Sun Mercury Pluto stellium in the 6th!!. Naturally it will be different for everyone and depends on the aspects elsewhere. Need to post your chart for any feedback.

Here are charts from my ex colleague and me. Sometimes we have worked together: in tourism. Difference is here: she worked all the time at the same place and I have changed jobs before coming to tourism. In tourism I was working all possible: receptionist in the hotel; in tourist office; as a tourist guide and representative.
I was working in abroad, 6 years; she has studied first Sport and after one year she got the job and it was more important for her to work than to study. She has also studied Italian in the summer in one Italian University city. For her is very important to be in spotlight (7th house).
Unfortunately I left my job long time, before I had to (because of chronic pains that nobody understands)

To look where the best for job is, we have to look our Sun place (I found it recently in Astrology Blog). My Sun is in 7th (public). Ruler of my MC is the Moon in 5th.
Before that I always was looking my North Node in 9th, the place where I enjoy: living in abroad, astrology, foreign languages and working with foreigners.

Explanation from some Astrologers:

I could work with real estate (Saturn in 10th), what means I should sell the houses and the land. I couldn't sell the best house: in contrary I lost the house.
Mars in 10th: I could work in the Army. I am not sure, what would I do there?
Pluto in 10th: psychology, mining, healing, investigating, or business (nothing for me)

If we look ruler from my 6th, Neptune in 12th: Research. That is true, but I do it for me, nobody pays me for that.

B.

Claire19 said:

So those planets are in Scorpio? Welcome to the Sun Mercury Pluto stellium in the 6th!!. Naturally it will be different for everyone and depends on the aspects elsewhere. Need to post your chart for any feedback.

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Yeah I also have Mars at 29 degrees Libra in the 6th. Those planets are in Scorpio. It is nice having a slightly debilitated mars in the sixth because I usually don't get into fights in the work place which is supposed to be the hall mark of Mars in the 6th

yelena234 said:

Here are charts from my ex colleague and me.
B.

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The first chart, as per whole sign has a bunch of planets in the first house and has Sun, Venus, Chiron in the second. North Node is in the seventh and Uranus, part of fortune, Pluto and Moon are all in the 8th house. So her career ruler is in the first and she has her north node in the 7th which works well together. She will probably be taken care of financially and should probably work with others though Saturn is there too with Jupiter in the first which can always create a pulling match.

Second chart, I think this person would be a good health care person or working with animals or helping others get through hard times. People will probably feel very at ease with this person so they would do well with helping others at vulnerable times.

retinoid said:

The 6th house is not career or the person's job. I see this a lot. People look to the 6th house ruler to determine what people should 'work' in...yes, the 6th does deal with work technically. But not in a job sense. More in a routine sense and every day sense. The 10th house is what should be focused on and its ruler when determining a career. I use the 6th house and/or its ruler when it comes to how the person will be satisfied 'everyday'. If the ruler of the sixth house is in the seventh house, then they will not want to be in a cubicle, ALONE doing paper work everyday. Or if it is in the eleventh or ninth house, the person won't be satisfied with just getting the job done, they need to have some sort of higher purpose...

10th house is the career...not the 6th house...

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Thanks for clearing that up, its always confused me!

This is good news as the ruler of my 10th is beautifully aspected, so no complaints here

retinoid said:

The 6th house is not career or the person's job. I see this a lot. People look to the 6th house ruler to determine what people should 'work' in...yes, the 6th does deal with work technically. But not in a job sense. More in a routine sense and every day sense. The 10th house is what should be focused on and its ruler when determining a career. I use the 6th house and/or its ruler when it comes to how the person will be satisfied 'everyday'. If the ruler of the sixth house is in the seventh house, then they will not want to be in a cubicle, ALONE doing paper work everyday. Or if it is in the eleventh or ninth house, the person won't be satisfied with just getting the job done, they need to have some sort of higher purpose...

10th house is the career...not the 6th house...

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YOu are being rather contradictory and the 6th does point to what work we do and how we do it also our co workers and what we do to get the bread on the table. It is the house of service and everyday need and rituals. In the old days it was the slavery area and some people do still tend to regard their occupations as slavery.

. The career is our vocation and seen in the 10th. Not everyone has a career and many only have a 6th house job. Fortunate is the person whose everyday work is their chosen vocation and career. They would have connections with the 6th and the 10th in aspect.

another way to think of it all is the 6th is connected to the 10th via a trine.. a planet in the 6th in trine to the midheaven might inform one on the type of profession they could be involved in especially if nothing is in the midheaven.. same deal with a planet trine to the 10th from the 2nd area..

retinoid said:

Second chart, I think this person would be a good health care person or working with animals or helping others get through hard times. People will probably feel very at ease with this person so they would do well with helping others at vulnerable times.

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It is true, I like to care about other people and I like also small animals, like dog, cats, chickens and hens. To take care about dogs and cats is nothing for me. Only in the case that somebody helps me to take care about them. My chronic pains don't allow that.

Chickens, hens, ducks, birds: that is much better.

B.

sandstone said:

another way to think of it all is the 6th is connected to the 10th via a trine.. a planet in the 6th in trine to the midheaven might inform one on the type of profession they could be involved in especially if nothing is in the midheaven.. same deal with a planet trine to the 10th from the 2nd area..

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Interesting point. However, I would like to add to this that the ancient authors only considered aspects to the ASC as that signifies the person/body. That the 6th trines the 10th is not very important except being that slaves/servants (the 6th) are helpful to those in power (the 10th). The 6th, however, is not particularly helpful to the Asc (i.e. you) as it is disjunct.

Although you did not address this point in your post specifically, I want to add here to this post; co-workers are not represented by the 6th house. The 6th house rules servants (and such-like). Your co-workers are on equal footing with you and so would be signified by the 7th...at least, logically, that is how I view it. They are not your "servants", they are your peers.

Your boss, superiors, govm't, your career/work, your fame, accomplishment, where you want to go in life ideally, would be the 10th.

I still want to say that I would never send someone to their 6th house to toil any more than they probably already are in life. Guiding them to the 10th, although work may still be involved, would be much more rewarding. Also, both in ancient natal and ancient horary astrology, only the 10th is considered for anything to do with career, work, profession, etc. There is no mixing of the 10th/6th to get info on this. Just the 10th can do it.

you ought to read what morin has to say about this.. let me see if i can find the link for the book on houses he did..
here it is.. i guess he is kinda modern like your new hairdo, lol..

oriental planet rising ahead of the sun was used as a vocational indicator.. that is in the old books..

haha..hey, my hairdo is heading for the 10th house.

OK, so here is what I gather from Morius via Wharton regarding our topic:

1.Houses that are above the horizon tend to elevate whereas, those below the horizon tend toward corruption.

2.the 6th signifies servants. the 10th magistry

3.He insuinuates Ptolemy corrupted some of the meanings of the houses and was in opposition to the traditional meanings of the houses. Morinus insists that the 6th should signify servants contrary to what Ptolemy thought placing them in the 12th (oh-em-gee! - out of the frying pan and into the inferno-Ptolemy must have really had a hard time finding good help).

4.He likes triangles (i.e. trines) very much.

5.He divides the heavens into two sextiles, two squares, two trines and one opposition. Here is my take on that: Logically, this would be from the ASC as they all (the ancients) viewed the aspects like this as in relation to the ASC. If they measured this view from all the angles there would be more than 2 sextiles, 2 squares, etc.


6.He then speaks about the ages of man, divides these as aspects to the ASC as mentioned above.

7.However, he denotes triplicity divisions of which are grouped, the 1,9,5; the 2, 6, 10; and 3, 7, 11. But, undertand these are triplicities he is talking about because these houses share a common element. It does not change the meaning of the houses nor, their relation (or lack of relation) to the ASC. Thus we see that, for our purposes, the 2 of money, the 6th of servants and the 10th of career/superiors/magistry all share a common element or theme. This being, crudely, you work for someone/something to make money. Their relation to us, that being sextile, trine, etc does not change, nor does their meaning.

8.He states, "The second, is the Material and Animated; as are subjects, servants, and all other living creatures; and is placed in the 6."

and

"The second is the Triplicity of the Angle of the Mid-heaven, which they name the 10. house and appertaineth unto youth. This is also called the Triplicity of Action and of Gain or worldly goods flowing thence: because every thing working Physically, worketh for some Physical good. " italics mine to emphasize what I found relevant to our topic.

9.and he goes on deeper delineating some of the specfics about various houses obut only mentioning health/sickness to be taken both from the 1st and 6th, not just from the 6th which, most traditional astrologers use.

Respectfully, did I miss something that says the 6th should be taken for one's career? or were you just showing a reference for trines to the 10th in light of triplicities?

If it was the latter, I see this. But, the difference is that he is demonstrating a common thread through certain houses, a element or theme that triplicities share. It does not detract from their relation to the ASC nor to their given, inherent meanings, however which he (Morinus) does clarify per my synopsis points numbered 1, 2, 5, 6 and 8.

i don't think you missed anything.. often times there will be no planet in the midheaven at which point there are a number of options available to explore... the 2/6 have a connection to the midheaven via the triangle and this would be one of a few possibilities to consider in the grand scheme of things...

judith miller has a book out called vocational astrology and she refers to these 3 as connected to one's vocation as well.. she refers to them as the vocational houses related to livelihood..

i suppose i am playing a minor role of devils advocate to the thread here.. something i have a fondness for......

Ya, there are a few techniques for career, as you mentioned sandstone. From a natal chart Mars, Venus and Mercury were all considered as well, regardless of any house preferences. But, generally, the 10th was the place to go for "preferment", "magistry", career, etc. etc. rather than the 6th but, hey! I'm traditional and, I know that isn't everyone's bag of tea.

Still, I present it as a perspective, only if to show where our present day ideas may have evolved from. And, heck, I also enjoy a good exchange of ideas new and old, anyway.