im at my limit - will the lands be sold?

in a quick resume:

im at my limit on this:i´m in debt with Finances for a long time (since 2005) ( not due to my own debt,but cause my Dad put my name on his company and i just signed the Checks...but there were to much bills to pay and no money).

So...we are in a bad situation and we put some lands on sale in a small village here in our home country.

there is the huge crisis going on right now all over the world.Everyone tells me that they ( my dad specially) are going to resolve this issue but till now...nothing is repaired...and i am at my limit!!!

i must pay the debt till the end of this Year.Finances wii then try to rescue money through my ownings ( im working with no salary in my Mother´s Baby store for more about 1 year now..)so they will try to take away what they can get.ANd maybe to make me go at court and i am very scared.

My question is" will the lands be sold till the end of the year"??

Sorry im so bad that i cant even look at the chart

please anyone - would the land se sold?

http://docediandra.files.wordpress.com/2008/11/event-land-horary.gif?w=596&h=419

Dear Deirdre, this sounds awful. I cannot imagine that your dad just leaves you in this mess. He should help you! Fancy that, putting all responsability in your hands.
About the chart, I have to tell you that your own interpretation, no matter how little, is required. You gave the background info, that's good and the chart (a bit small, but with extra strong pair of glasses I can more or less figure it out). Please do look at the chart and see what you think.

I have never done a horary dealing with land and also have to find a book and see how to do it. I remember though that the land is ruled by the 4th house, so that is Venus and if you use intercepted houses, than also Mars.
I hope AG can jump in to help you here.

Starlink

thank ou stralink for your help - i also didnt know what house to look for about land - but so it is the 4H then..

I should tell that yup my Dad really made a mess and i wanted him to close the company as soon as possible but till now he didnt closed and problems are arising more and more!financial ones specially...but it´s my Dad and even if i feel really mad,sad and frustrated,i want to do sth! but i am scared about what will come out of this...

i´ll put the chart bigger for others to take a peek at well.

So let me see:

im represented by sun;it is in the 5h house of romance cj mars...in Sag.

the ladn is represented by venus ( if see the 4H)but also mars ( if i see IC as being in scorp).what about pluto?isnt the one that rules scorp also?im confused...

let´s see: sun is semiquare venus and cj Mars.

If i see it in a simple way,then the cj would indicate a "yes",right?

I must also look at moon:it is in the 11h HOUSE OF HOPES AND wishes - definatelyy!it is my Hope to resolve this siituation as soon as possible!Moon makes a trine to venus,so that would also indicate a yes???

am iseeing what i want to see,or i already fount 2 positive answers?Cause im a total newbie and Horary is such a complex area of astrology.

I know that i must also look if the aspects are separating or applying;the chart ususally shows how the subject is being dealed with etc....

Deidre, thanks a lot for trying to interprete this chart, really very much appreciated under the circumstances you are in,poor you.
You are indeed the Sun and the Moon as co-significator. The land is Venus and for some also Mars as he co-signifies the intercepted 4th house.
The land needs to be sold and we therefore need a buyer. The buyer is represented by the 7th house and he is the key to all as without him, you cannot sell.
So we must see if the land comes in contact with the buyer.
There should be a contact between Sun and Saturn showing if you and the potential buyer get along or if you could find a potential buyer,
the Moon and Saturn
Venus and Saturn
Mars and Saturn

Lets look at the strength of the Sun and Saturn. If they like one another.
Sun is only ruler by day in Sagittarius and this is a night chart, where Jupiter rules the triplicity.
Sun is in the term and face of Saturn, clearly showing that you would like a potential buyer to show up and that you are not at your best.

Saturn is in his own term but in his 8th house and in face of Mercury, his ruler but otherwise he is actually peregrine in Virgo and not exceptionally strong, so the money he has to offer would probably not be too fantastic.

Venus, the land, is in the sign of detriment of the Sun and also mostly peregrine in Aquarius apart from being in her own face, a weak dignity and in term of Saturn. It is also in the 6th house. This more or less shows that the land is probably not really an attractive plot to buy. It might also be a small piece of land.There might be something about the land that you yourself also dont like.

Venus is applying a conjunction with the cusp of the 7th house in 5° but from a cadent house and not being strong, this might take longer than you would like to bring the land to a buyer. I reckon around 5 month at the earliest, but timing is very difficult in horary so I might be wrong.

After that Venus will inconjunct Saturn and again a potential contact but certain things will have to be adjusted, probably the price of the land (Venus rules the intercepted sign Taurus in the 10th. the 10th shows the money that will be paid).

Sun is approaching a square to Saturn which does show that there could be a contact but that it will be accompanied by potential difficulties.

Moon is also approaching a square to Saturn unfortunately.

Mars, co-significator of the 4th and the 10th (the money) is combust by the Sun. This Sun-Mars combustion is debatable as some say that Mars does not loose it's force as he is of the same dryness and heat as the Sun is, but John Frawley thinks that is nonsense, that every planet is weakened by the Suns rays.
But even so, Mars also will build a square to Saturn.

I think that there could be a few buyers out there, but that the outcome will be negative and that they wont buy, at least not before the end of the year.

On the long term we see that Saturn will enter its sign of exhaltation, Libra, in October next year, showing that richer buyers could turn up. Next year 5th of December Venus then will sextile that Saturn in Libra. This is seen from a progressed point of view of course, so I think that eventually you might sell the land, but I am afraid that for the time being it will be very difficult, if not impossible.
There are also no mutual receptions between Saturn and Moon or Venus.

Last aspect of the Moon is an opposition to the Sun.

Mercury, ruling your house of money is at a critical degree and entering Capricorn where he will become peregrine.

I feel awful having to write this to you, but if you cannot sell the land, some other solution will have to be found. I am afraid your father is not being realistic about the situation.

I do hope AG will have a look as well and maybe sees better things. I am by no means an expert on this, but there are too many negatives here.
Keep in mind that things happen for a reason in our lives.

Wishing you much courage and strength,

Starlink

Deirdre said:

...they will try to take away what they can get.ANd maybe to make me go at court and i am very scared...

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Hi Deirdre,

I have no knowledge of horary, so cannot help with your question.

However, on another thread, you said your father had already lost his own business before setting this one up in your name. So he knows from experience that, provided your business has traded honestly, the courts will try to help rather than punish you/him. And perhaps he thinks you realise that too.

I understand why you are worried, but suspect your mind could be put at rest by a heart-to-heart discussion with your father about what to expect if the business does fail.

EJ

Starlink

I see that the asnwer can be much more complicated than what i would expect...

So the land will not be sold then..all that you said resonated with me:

- a few buyers had come along but they want the land for almost no money to pay and that doenst solve our situation.

- i really dont like the land cause it is situated in a small village with no history of turists for example,which would probably improve the enrichment of the place. It is a big land - 6000m2 and with much nature.But still..the crisis we are passing in our economy doenst help others to want to spend money in land right now...

- My Dad always acted like that:he is not being real and just keeps holding on to things that makes him create more problems as time passes by.The company keeps creating more bills,more debts and he doenst seem to want to close the business.

In other times he had a big one with my Mom but they had to close it and again...loosing much money.That is why that now if he puts his name on the company,and this one fails again he could very well be arrested...

- i feel very restricted and limited. i have no money,no contacts to help me, and everything i say to help is not considered for him.He is stubborn and being egoistical in my point of view..

i feel lost that is they key word here.

EJ53

the thing is : i dont have really anything to do in court - it is forbidden i think what he did - but i only let him put my name to help him and now i see my name as being in debt in social security and Finances.think what that makes me feel everytime i wake up.Im only 25 and i dont know what he keeps doint in the Company - i only sign the checks but if the cours asks me things..i dont know anyhting!!and that makes me scared. im at a whole here and everywhere i turn,i see all black and im like a blind person that doenst know where to turn to.

My real feeling tells me i would do better on threatening my Father to take my name off but i have no courage to do that cause he is at stake here too.

It´s not only to finances and social security that im suposely in debt:its to workers in the company,to the ones that supply the materials and all..it´s much bigger than what we could think off.

ANd yes,,i have already had so many conversations...no used...he just keeps thinking about himself and not in our family.

Oh Deidre, I really feel for you, what a situation you are in. The only solution then would be to declare the company bankrot maybe? I dont know much about business either but I have heard that this is done in case you want to avoid having to pay out.(maybe I am wrong here also). EJ, do you know? Dont know how this works in your country though.

Only 25 years old and all this misery and responsability on your shoulders, good heavens, I have no words for it. If you cannot bring your dad to reverse the signature, then maybe you can force him to bankrot the company. Or maybe you can ask the bank to give you a loan which you then could pay back next year December when hopefully, you will sell the land.
Once again, wishing you all the very best.
Cariñosamente, Starlink

starlink said:

...The only solution then would be to declare the company bankrot maybe? I dont know much about business either but I have heard that this is done in case you want to avoid having to pay out.(maybe I am wrong here also). EJ, do you know? Dont know how this works in your country though....

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This would be the best thing to do in my country (UK) and Deidre would initiate the process herself (rather than her father) because the business is in her name. Guidance is available (in the UK) from "Citizen's Advice" and from the Local Council - but I don't know how things work outside of the UK.

However, from what Deidre says, I think the courts would decide anyway that she has been placed in an impossible position by her father (and therefore he rather than her is responsible).

EJ

hi and thank you for your attention on me.

that is the reason why i am afraid and dont know what to do - if the courts consider my Father responsible ( which in fact he is),then the Court could decide to arrest him cause that way he would be a reincident.

i have already thought about to declare the bankrupcy yes but that is where my fear lies.

The bank wont give me any loans because i do not have a salary that i could present - started to work "pro bono" a few months ago cause the store dont hold on the bills enough in order for me to have a salary.

my brother wants to ask himself the loan but its a lot of money and i feel guilty if he does that - he has no responsibility on this and i dont want him to do that - it will only complicate his life.

also our house is already on hipotec ( by my borhter) and if for some reason,when he asks the loan,could not pay a month then,the bak will take our house.

You know - i will pray - cause that is the only thing i can do right now.

i feel better for you to have listened and helped.

Much apreciatted for your care.

hi all

My last try to reverse this problem: i bought a lottery ticket of Christmas time.

if sth good happens...i will post.

Thanks you for your help.

Hi Dierdre,

I just had a look. I think the chart is a complicated one because of the different people involved. It might be best to just explore the chart for its symbolism, and find an answer from there.

The land won't be shown by the 4th: it is not your land, but your family's. The land will be shown by the 7th, Saturn. Because this would also represent a buyer in a transaction, we will use the Moon to judge any 'action'.

Note Saturn sits in your 2nd house of money; this very appropriately shows your financial concerns and the focus on getting money from the land.

I think that the land is not the main concern for you; I think, from reading what you have written, your biggest worry is 'How do I get out of this mess?' that your father has put you in. Like Starlink, I am shocked that a parent would put such a responsibility on his child's shoulders, but who knows what people are thinking?

The Sun, you, actually has some dignity by being placed in a beneficial house. You apply to square Saturn, the land, (and thus, your financial burdens), but there is reception there, so it may be that the land will be 'helpful' for you somehow; but not without effort.

It might make you feel better to know that your personal money situation is soon to improve; Mercury, your 2nd ruler, will very soon move out of its detriment in Sagittarius, into Capricorn, where it will get some small relief.

The Moon is in the 11th; this is a good description of your hope that a buyer will be found. But the Moon will soon apply to oppose Mars, which rules the courts; and it may be that the court has some 'unwanted' involvement in the transaction. Note that Mars applies to square Saturn, too. The Moon will then oppose the Sun: you.

This makes me think that the sale of the land will not go through, at least in the time frame you have asked about (which is only about three weeks!). However, some sort of opportunity may arise, perhaps either through a buyer (Moon) or a friend (Moon in 11th). The Moon will sextile the ASC in about two degrees; maybe two weeks or two months.

And look: you MUST remove yourself from your father's dealings as soon as possible. I understand family responsibilities are very important to you, but your father has done you a huge disservice; one that can affect you for years. If you are still signing checks, stop. Your father has put his bad decisions on to your shoulders, and it is too much.

Seek the court's advice on how to do this. You should not be held responsible for cleaning up your father's mess. I know you love him, but love does not mean that you must fix his problems. This requires you to be very, very brave, but you must get out of this situation!

AG

Hi Archer

yo made me feel some relief - at least my financial life will improve even just a little.

im in a mess cause all this and i tried so hard to get out - i cant.even my brothers are trying to help but no use.If i go to court and ask a lowyer..my father´s loyer said that he will held on responsible for the 2nd bankrupcy,then it will be arrested.My Mom said i was ingratefull one of these days when i said i wanted to get out..so i know im in bad situation from both sides.

whenever i try to get out and i say what all htis is doing to me they just say eveything is being made and taked care...but i no longer trust them.

i MUST get out but i dont know how...without prejudicing my father.

There is a saying that 'you can't change it or fix it, because you didn't break it'. I'm afraid you are in a very difficult situation and will have to make some very difficult decisions.

That your mother is not supporting you and called you ungrateful, does not help you.

I am not familiar with Portuguese law; but it seems to me that bankruptcy would be the most sensible solution. In the USA you are 'blacklisted' for 7 years after bankruptcy; but at least you are free from the burden of the debts, and can find PAID work in the meantime, and start building up your credit again. I don't know why they would arrest your father if he volunteered to give up the business; but again, I don't know Portuguese law.

Sometimes, the only way to fix a situation is to destroy it completely, and start over again. I really feel for you. Get as much advice as you can, gather your strength together, and make a decision that helps YOU.

AG

Hi AG, glad you told us about the 4th not being HER grounds, but the families. I did not think of that. Outcome seems to be the same however.

but it seems to me that bankruptcy would be the most sensible solution.

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Yes, but it also means that, whilst Deidre is still the one who signs and therefore responsible, she will also be the one who has to pay creditors back over the coming God knows how many years. This is sooo unfair to a young girl!!

Deidre, you should ask your father maybe to put the land in your name. So then at least you have a chance of selling it and paying debts back in case the company will go bankrupt. I would really really not listen to your mother. She understandibly stays behind your dad, she probably has to. She is also scared of the future. But you are young and have your whole life in front of you. You must take action no matter how awful or un-loyal you feel towards your parents. I hope you can do this.

Cheers, Starlink

Thank you all for your attention and help.

yes im aware of the tought decisions i have to make - one side there is my whole family and in the other..me and my life that i wish to be free and untied of these debts.

Here the years are 3 - the time from when the debtsa re payed,i would be allowed to have my own business for example.Or to have my name clean in the Finances.better then if it would be 7 ( at least that for my ).

If the court declares that i wasnt the one who had the fault ( it is gonna be my father´s) and then i must try to find a way of having my onw money.but at the same time,whatever i gain,some % will be taken away to help to pay the debts.THis if the court dont take the bankrupcy and declares i must pay.( as my Dad did this once.they might be suspicious that he does it the second time).

about the land - all hte lands were inehrited to my father and his sister,by my diceased grandparents.What he did was to take it all and out in the name of my aunt for the Finances dont take them away.

that is a try Starlink - but if i put my name on the land the Finances come on and grab them by a penny. it is unfair that they dont take the land for the valor it´s worth - if they would do that.then my problem would be solved.

all of you talked about to declare bankrupcy - it seems the only solution for now.

It is VERY difficult to go against your whole family and do what is right for you...I know this. I have done it. It is very painful at first...but you will be free of it, and that freedom is very, very sweet.

You cannot fix your father's problems (that he has made these mistakes before says something about his business sense...or lack of business sense), and you should not feel that you HAVE to.

Look at it this way: If you take the blame for your father's mistakes, you will save the relationship but your father may feel that you will do whatever he wants, forever and ever...and you may find yourself in this situation again. What is more, you will have to bear the terrible financial burden of HIS mistakes.

On the other hand, if you defy your family and break free of the mess, using the law, your father will HAVE to take responsibility for himself. In some ways, you are helping him avoid responsibility...something it sounds like he does a lot. It is making a mess out of YOUR life.

If you decide to break free you will anger your family, but this anger comes because you are not doing what they want you to do, whether it is actually good for you or not. If they really wanted you to be happy, they would understand your need to break away...but people often do not want others to be 'free' because it reminds them of their own bondage.

I had to break a business 'deal' with my mother (who is very wealthy and very greedy) because the 'deal' was completely in her favour, and completely against me. I was totally in her power, and it made me miserable. So I broke the deal, which made her VERY angry indeed, and for many months we did not speak except to say a few polite things in front of my children.

But I explained to her (several times) that I had to live my life the way I wanted to live it; and if I had to do it on my own without her "help", then so be it.

It was the most terrifying and exciting thing I have ever done. I got SO much power from doing it; and what I discovered was that my mother still loves me in her own strange way, and that I CAN live without my mother interfering in my life...and I can live happily.

Eckhart Tolle says there are three things you can do in any given situation: accept it the way it is; do what you can to fix it; or walk away from it. I think you have already done the first two. Maybe it's time to try the third.

I don't think bankruptcy is YOUR best bet. I think YOUR best bet is to extract yourself from the situation legally, and let your father clean up his own mess. But as you know, if you don't do this, you will pay a big price; and that price is your freedom. Is it worth it?

AG

Dear ,

I shall try if I can try to help you ! When I tried with your chart, it is mixed of both chances. If we look at the Mars (Lord of Land) is related with your sales and opposite party tkaes the ownership .but you gain out of it! If I study the Cusps, all are saying you rae getting benefited with the Property..Confusing..

So can you pls ,if you are still serious about this issue, raise me the question clearly ( if property related, tell me whose preoperty is ) once again with mentioning a "number" striking in your mind at once "between 1-249". This is not numerology..this is our Method of KP steller Theory. This is to fix the sub of the Asc., Then I shall try and come back to you to my best..

Best Regards
Adith

than you Adith

you will try your complex vedis system then

the question is " will the land be sold till the end of this year"

the number i thought was 150. the land is not mine.it is of my family.the side of my dad . it is in my aunt´s name.

thank you for your effort.

TO ALL

Yesterday i sat with all my brothers ( 3 sisters and a brother).we talked about things and my brother decided that if my dad dont take responsability,my brother will pay the debt asking a loan.

im not happy with this and i will think about it cayse i feel somehow guilty for my brother.

Dear Deirdre,
Thank you for your question ! I need one clarification, Aunt is your father's younger /youngest/elder/eldest sister? or how related, can you advise me?

Regards
Adith

it is the only sister he has.my father doenst have any more brothers or sisters.