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  #1  
Unread 01-03-2013, 03:00 PM
nasrudin nasrudin is offline
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The malefic Saturn ine the house of God

Hi
I'm actually confused . In my natal chart Saturn is
the lord of the 9th house
and is in the 9th house

the problem is that I have 2 opposite interpretations of this position of Saturn

the 1st one is according to modern astrology which describes my attitude to religion and philosophy as "orthodox" and "conservative" ..
and this as far as I know myself is true(In fact that's why I'm more inclined to traditional astrology)

the 2nd one tells me I'm "skeptical" and "heretic".and this according to classical astrology books.

Now the question is if there is another significance in traditional doctrines of this position of Saturn.
Thank you

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  #2  
Unread 01-03-2013, 03:10 PM
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Re: The malefic Saturn ine the house of God

Quote:
Originally Posted by nasrudin View Post
Hi
I'm actually confused . In my natal chart Saturn is
the lord of the 9th house
and is in the 9th house

the problem is that I have 2 opposite interpretations of this position of Saturn

the 1st one is according to modern astrology which describes my attitude to religion and philosophy as "orthodox" and "conservative" ..
and this as far as I know myself is true(In fact that's why I'm more inclined to traditional astrology)

the 2nd one tells me I'm "skeptical" and "heretic". and this according to classical astrology books.

Now the question is if there is another significance in traditional doctrines of this position of Saturn.
Thank you
It would be most useful if you would provide the full quote sourced from the classical astrology books as well as the names of those classical astrology books and their authors and/or a link to the 'skeptical' and 'heretic' claims made
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  #3  
Unread 01-03-2013, 03:29 PM
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Re: The malefic Saturn ine the house of God

Quote:
It would be most useful if you would provide the full quote sourced from the classical astrology books as well as the names of those classical astrology books and their authors and/or a link to the 'skeptical' and 'heretic' claims made
Lilly says it, actually, and I've found it to be true as well.

Having Saturn configured to your Ninth house typically makes one less religious and more skeptical when it comes to matters of faith. It comes down to a Jupiter vs Saturn situation in a lot of cases.

Myself, for example, I have Jupiter in Cancer as Lord of the Ninth, which makes me very faithful and open to several different religious ideas. However, that Jupiter is also opposed by Saturn in Capricorn, so you see my problem. :/

On the one hand, my ideas of religion and faith are very open and borderline crazy in certain regards, but the Saturn opposition colors it very well and many of my beliefs are simultaneously tied to scientific ideas or come from traditions much older than the..."mainstream" (for lack of a better word).

However, to answer the main question of this thread, you're only halfway doing the classical interpretation. Since Saturn is Lord of the Ninth and in the Ninth, he must be in one of his domiciles (can't see your chart, only assuming based on what you said). The aphorism Lilly gives for this is

Quote:
Originally Posted by Christian Astrology Book III pg 613
Saturn in the Ninth in any of his own Dignities, argues Religion, Chastity, and Faith
So, there's no contradiction at all.
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Last edited by Kaiousei no Senshi; 01-03-2013 at 03:33 PM.
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  #4  
Unread 01-03-2013, 03:36 PM
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Re: The malefic Saturn ine the house of God

I started a thread on this some time ago that may be helpful to you.

http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum...ad.php?t=43581
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Unread 01-03-2013, 03:41 PM
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Re: The malefic Saturn ine the house of God

I think the big question about Saturn in this position is going to depend on the rest of the chart. Saturn in the 9th, if dignified or received, especially if it's a day chart, can show someone with a serious, orderly approach to matters of faith and religion. It's also a good placement for someone with a scientific approach to seeking the truth.

Saturn out of sect and/or afflicted could produce just the opposite.
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Unread 01-03-2013, 03:48 PM
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Re: The malefic Saturn ine the house of God

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Originally Posted by tsmall View Post
I think the big question about Saturn in this position is going to depend on the rest of the chart. Saturn in the 9th, if dignified or received, especially if it's a day chart, can show someone with a serious, orderly approach to matters of faith and religion. It's also a good placement for someone with a scientific approach to seeking the truth.

Saturn out of sect and/or afflicted could produce just the opposite.
Exactly.

9th is above the horizon but in a day chart with Sun below the horizon, Saturn would be out of sect in 9th whether located in Libra or not and - according to Hellenistic astrologers - Saturn would therefore be acting COUNTER to the agenda of in-sect planets. One wonders whether the chart in question is therefore a night chart or a day chart because at this stage we are generalising
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Unread 01-03-2013, 03:51 PM
nasrudin nasrudin is offline
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Re: The malefic Saturn ine the house of God

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Originally Posted by JUPITERASC View Post
It would be most useful if you would provide the full quote sourced from the classical astrology books as well as the names of those classical astrology books and their authors and/or a link to the 'skeptical' and 'heretic' claims made
I dont have them in the moment
so I will answer you later
thank you

My sun is in the 1st house if that would help.

Last edited by nasrudin; 01-03-2013 at 03:57 PM.
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Unread 01-03-2013, 03:57 PM
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Re: The malefic Saturn ine the house of God

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Originally Posted by nasrudin View Post
I dont have them in the moment
so I will answer you later
thank you
Kaiousei no Senshi has referenced Lilly, however 'twould be useful to as well have a link to the authors that originally inspired your interesting question, so thank you nasrudin
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Unread 01-03-2013, 04:01 PM
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Re: The malefic Saturn ine the house of God

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Originally Posted by nasrudin View Post
My sun is in the 1st house if that would help.
It is the Horizon that matters when considering sect, therefore how many degrees above or below the Ascendant is the Sun - also which house system
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Unread 01-03-2013, 04:06 PM
nasrudin nasrudin is offline
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Re: The malefic Saturn ine the house of God

Well ...here is one
Gadbury, John
Doctrine of Nativities & Horary Questions
page 58
printed in London 1658.
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Unread 01-03-2013, 04:11 PM
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Re: The malefic Saturn ine the house of God

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Originally Posted by JUPITERASC View Post
It is the Horizon that matters when considering sect, therefore how many degrees above or below the Ascendant is the Sun - also which house system
Placidus System
ASC in 25 d Taurus
and the sun is in 17 d Gemini
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Unread 01-03-2013, 04:13 PM
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Re: The malefic Saturn ine the house of God

Quote:
Originally Posted by nasrudin View Post
Placidus System
ASC in 25 d Taurus
and the sun is in 17 d Gemini
nasrudin, are you able to post the chart?
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Unread 01-03-2013, 04:19 PM
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Thumbs up Re: The malefic Saturn ine the house of God

Quote:
Originally Posted by tsmall View Post
nasrudin, are you able to post the chart?
yes of course
but I did not want to make the discussion personal
I wanted it to be more general
but if you wanna read my chart that would be great
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Unread 01-03-2013, 04:21 PM
nasrudin nasrudin is offline
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Re: The malefic Saturn ine the house of God

I have jupiter in cancer in 3rd house
he is the Almuten and also the Chart ruler
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Unread 01-03-2013, 04:30 PM
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Re: The malefic Saturn ine the house of God

Quote:
Originally Posted by nasrudin View Post
Well ...here is one
Gadbury, John
Doctrine of Nativities & Horary Questions
page 58
printed in London 1658.
Would be helpful if you would post the exact quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by nasrudin View Post
yes of course
but I did not want to make the discussion personal
I wanted it to be more general
but if you wanna read my chart that would be great
This is not a 'read my chart' thread though so there's no need to post the chart nasrudin.
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Unread 01-03-2013, 04:33 PM
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Re: The malefic Saturn ine the house of God

Quote:
Originally Posted by nasrudin View Post
Placidus System
ASC in 25 d Taurus
and the sun is in 17 d Gemini
Since Sun is Gemini and Asc is Taurus then this is a night chart therefore Saturn is an out of sect malefic according to Hellenistic astrology, Saturn is acting AGAINST the Agenda of in-sect planets
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Unread 01-03-2013, 04:38 PM
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Re: The malefic Saturn ine the house of God

Since my first quote was somewhat overlooked, I figured I would do another one and get straight to the heart of the matter. Gadbury is kind of a funny man, but even he covers his bases, but he's not as good at it as Lilly and his book isn't as well done, in my opinion. Anyway, Gadbury concurs with Lilly in this, and for fear of being pinged for copyright (though I'm not sure this book is in active copyright anymore since you can procure it freely from the web) I'm going to type up his paragraph on Saturn in the Ninth.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Doctrine of Nativities and Horary Questions pg, 58
When Saturn shall be posited in the ninth hosue of a nativity it portends much damage and loss in long journies, sea voyages, and travels unto the native; makes him hated of princes; shows him to be an absolute hypocrite or disembler; makes him heretical, and guilty of great errors in matters of faith and religion: and he will also be accustomed unto terrible dreams: but if Saturn be well dignified there, the native will be propense to the mathematicks and to philosophy; he may prove an admirable diviner, or interpreter of dreams
So, Saturn in the Ninth can generally make one a skeptic when it comes to religious matters, but when it's well dignified it leads one to be more faithful, good at math, a philosopher, or someone with a close connection with the divine capable of prophecy and divination.
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Unread 01-03-2013, 04:40 PM
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Re: The malefic Saturn ine the house of God

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaiousei no Senshi View Post
Since my first quote was somewhat overlooked, I figured I would do another one and get straight to the heart of the matter. Gadbury is kind of a funny man, but even he covers his bases, but he's not as good at it as Lilly and his book isn't as well done, in my opinion. Anyway, Gadbury concurs with Lilly in this, and for fear of being pinged for copyright (though I'm not sure this book is in active copyright anymore since you can procure it freely from the web) I'm going to type up his paragraph on Saturn in the Ninth.

So, Saturn in the Ninth can generally make one a skeptic when it comes to religious matters, but when it's well dignified it leads one to be more faithful, good at math, a philosopher, or someone with a close connection with the divine capable of prophecy and divination.
Thanks Kaiousei no Senshi

Is this the quote you had in mind nasrudin and is your confusion any the less now?
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Unread 01-03-2013, 04:41 PM
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Re: The malefic Saturn ine the house of God

I dont know if this one is good enough
but I will post it any way
[IMG][/IMG]
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Unread 01-03-2013, 04:42 PM
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Re: The malefic Saturn ine the house of God

This is not a 'read my chart' thread though so there's no need to post the chart nasrudin. [/QUOTE]

oops
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Unread 01-03-2013, 04:47 PM
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Re: The malefic Saturn ine the house of God

Quote:
Originally Posted by JUPITERASC View Post
Thanks Kaiousei no Senshi

Is this the quote you had in mind nasrudin and is your confusion any the less now?
yes exactly

" but when it's well dignified it leads one to be more faithful, good at math, a philosopher, or someone with a close connection with the divine capable of prophecy and divination."

this describes me well.
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Unread 01-03-2013, 04:51 PM
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Re: The malefic Saturn ine the house of God

Hm...looking at your chart...and then this...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaiousei no Senshi
Myself, for example, I have Jupiter in Cancer as Lord of the Ninth, which makes me very faithful and open to several different religious ideas. However, that Jupiter is also opposed by Saturn in Capricorn, so you see my problem. :/
Are you...copying me with your Jupiter/Saturn opposition? O.o This is kind of neat, actually. I'd be interested in hearing more about your religious ideas since Saturn is L9 in yours but Jupiter is L9 in mine.
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Unread 01-03-2013, 04:53 PM
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Re: The malefic Saturn ine the house of God

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Originally Posted by nasrudin View Post
yes exactly

" but when it's well dignified it leads one to be more faithful, good at math, a philosopher, or someone with a close connection with the divine capable of prophecy and divination."

this describes me well.
Great
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Unread 01-03-2013, 05:01 PM
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Re: The malefic Saturn ine the house of God

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Originally Posted by Kaiousei no Senshi View Post
Hm...looking at your chart...and then this...



Are you...copying me with your Jupiter/Saturn opposition? O.o This is kind of neat, actually. I'd be interested in hearing more about your religious ideas since Saturn is L9 in yours but Jupiter is L9 in mine.
I'm just an amature that's why I just take what natal chart website gave me
and according to them jupiter is not in opposition with saturn

Any way my religious belief are orthodox... I'm a sunni moslem
my religious beleif system comes from traditions much older than the..."mainstream"
and so I debate with people from the other systems

Last edited by nasrudin; 01-03-2013 at 05:03 PM.
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Unread 01-03-2013, 05:01 PM
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Re: The malefic Saturn ine the house of God

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Originally Posted by JUPITERASC View Post
Great
Thanks to you and all the others
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