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  #1  
Unread 01-17-2013, 01:48 PM
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Ruler of Midheaven conjunct South Node indicates failure in career?

This aspect always confused me, specially since the ruler of career of my chart is Saturn (restriction).

My Midheaven is in Capricorn, and Saturn, its ruler, is conjunct South Node in 8th, in Scorpio. So to be successful and happy in career, my personal life will be unfulfilling?

Or career will always be bad and not successful if I wish to be happy (north node)?

Thanks everyone!
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Unread 01-17-2013, 04:30 PM
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Re: Ruler of Midheaven conjunct South Node indicates failure in career?

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This aspect always confused me, specially since the ruler of career of my chart is Saturn (restriction).
Capricorn is the natural ruler of the 10th. The people I know with capricorn MC tend to have steady work. I can't really say if they are happy with it or not.

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My Midheaven is in Capricorn, and Saturn, its ruler, is conjunct South Node in 8th, in Scorpio. So to be successful and happy in career, my personal life will be unfulfilling?

Or career will always be bad and not successful if I wish to be happy (north node)?
There have been many debates on the nodal axis. Personally, I'm in the belief that the happiness is in finding a balance between the two. It's not easy, nor is it a consistent battle. It seems to operate in phases for me. A few times I've felt like I found the balance, but it only lasted for a few years (about a quarter node cycle to be exact).

Keep in mind there can be a couple ways it can play out. With 2nd/8th it can be a struggle with material accumulation and sharing, or it it could a sense of self worth in your living/work situation. Your MC connection could also be more about your broader public reputation than your specific work situation.
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Unread 01-17-2013, 08:40 PM
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Re: Ruler of Midheaven conjunct South Node indicates failure in career?

Emerald: career limitations? I personally don't consider any of these factors to suggest limitation or blockage in terms of your career.
Take note of Neptune being the closest to your MC, which is not afflicted: you may find yourself attracted to surprising avenues of expression in your career; things which are different and more ethereal in nature: [perhaps using the imagination in a directed manner]. Planets in the 10th house have no afflictions, per say, thus would indicate positive and successful energies surrounding the career. Saturn is not what blocks you; it is the square of Mars/Pluto that can disrupt your plans and ambitions. Since Saturn is in the 8th house, this shows areas where your focus and energies can be well-directed, and stabilized, through patience, diligence and hard work. The 9th house also shows areas of possible exploration and the search for deeper meaning and purpose in life; you are apt to require structure and purpose in whatever you find yourself doing. Also you might consider NN in Taurus [money and resources].
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Unread 01-18-2013, 12:25 AM
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Re: Ruler of Midheaven conjunct South Node indicates failure in career?

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This aspect always confused me, specially since the ruler of career of my chart is Saturn (restriction).

My Midheaven is in Capricorn, and Saturn, its ruler, is conjunct South Node in 8th, in Scorpio. So to be successful and happy in career, my personal life will be unfulfilling?

Or career will always be bad and not successful if I wish to be happy (north node)?

Thanks everyone!
It would never occur to me to interpret the ruler of your MC, even if it were Saturn, on the SN as being bad or indicating lack of success. Saturn as ruler of the MC points to the ability to bring form and ambition to your pursuits in the outer world. There may be obstacles or delays, it may not be easy, but in my experience, not much in this life is .

I also really don't see Saturn's rather widely conjoining your SN [a point rather than a planet] as having much effect on your MC [another point rather than a planet] and career. Rather it is the other way around, that Saturn on the SN may indicate some delay or difficulty finding the harmony and balance between the lunar nodal axis.

In the modern western astrology the SN points to what we we bring into this life, what we innately know, natural gifts. The NN is what we are called to learn in this life, not what will make us happy. Perhaps looking a bit more deeply into the symbolism of the lunar nodes might put your mind more at ease?

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Unread 01-18-2013, 12:26 AM
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Re: Ruler of Midheaven conjunct South Node indicates failure in career?

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Originally Posted by Emerald View Post
This aspect always confused me, specially since the ruler of career of my chart is Saturn (restriction).

My Midheaven is in Capricorn, and Saturn, its ruler, is conjunct South Node in 8th, in Scorpio. So to be successful and happy in career, my personal life will be unfulfilling?

Or career will always be bad and not successful if I wish to be happy (north node)?

Thanks everyone!
Oh Dear, the ridiculous stuff that is written about the South Node!

If you are approaching the Nodal axis from a past lives-future lives point of view, then the South Node indicates the qualities you have developed in other lives that you will use in this one. To say this is bad is as silly as saying Grade 3 is bad when you are in Grade 4, you couldn't be in Grade 4 unless you had passed Grade 3.

The ruler of the MC conjunct South Node would suggest you will use some qualities you have developed in other lifetimes in your career this lifetime.

If you prefer not to believe in reincarnation, then the South Node can indicate qualities you have inherited from an ancestor. Saturn conjunct the South Node will often indicate someone who can instinctively organise, plan and structure very well.

The South Node will often indicate skills that you willingly share with others or an area where you give out to others. The North Node can often be an area where you benefit from or receive from others.

Interestingly, Vedic astrologers say that an active South Node can indicate someone on the path of Moksha i.e. elightenment through life experience.

Also interestingly, two of Australia's most successful people, ex-Prime Minister, John Howard (26th July 1939, Earlwood, Australia) and comedian Paul Hogan (8th October 1939, 9.30 am, Granville, Australia) both had Saturn conjunct South Node. Both had long, successful marriages, John Howard has only married once and Paul Hogan twice, both for a long time.

Alice

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Unread 01-18-2013, 03:18 AM
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Re: Ruler of Midheaven conjunct South Node indicates failure in career?

There is nothing in a chart that will indicate absolute failure. Our thoughts are extremely powerful and indeed create our reality, if you think you will fail, you will fail! Of course there are things that make success harder to achieve but that doesn't mean you give up, you keep working harder and having faith that your hard work will pay off!

Since the South Node represents qualities that are very well developed in you, it makes more sense to focus on cultivating the North Node which in your case is your home/ family life. Focusing on this will help you make the most personal and spiritual growth in this life.
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Unread 01-18-2013, 05:13 AM
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Re: Ruler of Midheaven conjunct South Node indicates failure in career?

For me, the South Node does represent the "weak spot", the "Achilles heel", of any given chart (I am not as sanguine about the SN as, say, many Vedic adepts are; for me, I accept Gerard of Cremona's understanding of the SN as having an influence similar to a Mars+Saturn conjunction) However, one chart element (significator) being conjunct the Dragon's Tail, is, after all, ONLY ONE factor in the delineation of that chart, and only ONE factor in the analysis of any given area of life based upon that particular chart.

In the posted reference chart, while Saturn is conjunct the SN and Saturn is the dispositor of Capricorn on the 10th house, 3 other planets (not involved with the SN) actually posit that 10th house (2 of those planets being Jupiter and Venus!)-these other factors MUST be considered as well-at a minimum!-in reaching a tentative judgement regarding likely directions for the OP's career path.
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Unread 01-20-2013, 05:12 AM
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Re: Ruler of Midheaven conjunct South Node indicates failure in career?

Your ruler of midheaven is not actually conjunct South Node. It needs to be a much tighter orb of 2 degrees. Also you need to look at the actual planets that sit in your 10th of career. Also we need to concentrate on the north node for aspects. The south node has been and gone and only shows past life conditions and familiarity.

Your North node is in 2nd house of earning own income and material assets. The South is in the 8th house of shared assets so it may be that you need to be more independent in acquiring your material needs and comforts rather this time around. .
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Unread 01-20-2013, 05:16 AM
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Re: Ruler of Midheaven conjunct South Node indicates failure in career?

My friend Celeste Teal has written a very fine volume on the nodes of the Moon. If you live in the USA, its worth purchasing.
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Unread 01-20-2013, 05:21 AM
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Re: Ruler of Midheaven conjunct South Node indicates failure in career?

Claire19 makes an excellent observation and a point which needs to be kept in mind: orbs for the Lunar nodes must be tight to be meaningful, with a 2 degree orb generally considered to be maximum (I'll go as far as 3 degrees)
In the reference chart Saturn is fully 7 degrees away from the SN, so there is no nodal conjunction present in the reference chart.
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Unread 01-20-2013, 10:30 PM
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Re: Ruler of Midheaven conjunct South Node indicates failure in career?

In traditional the South Node improves the condition of unfavorable places and reduces the malefic nature of Saturn and Mars. (Lilly may disagree.) Saturn is in mutual reception with Mars, and it beholds the 10th house. Venus in the 10th house rules the 2nd. Lot of Fortune is in the 2nd house with the North Node. This indicates that you will be successful at your occupation and lead a prosperous life. A weak Mercury does not indicate great success in academics or teaching. Mars influence usually leads to very active physical work.
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Unread 01-20-2013, 10:44 PM
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Re: Ruler of Midheaven conjunct South Node indicates failure in career?

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For me, the South Node does represent the "weak spot", the "Achilles heel", of any given chart ....
The above remark is in direct opposition to your comment Culpeper
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In traditional the South Node improves the condition of unfavorable places and reduces the malefic nature of Saturn and Mars. (Lilly may disagree.) ....
One wonders whether Lilly is the sole source of disagreement with this view of the South Node - or not
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Unread 01-20-2013, 11:14 PM
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Red face Re: Ruler of Midheaven conjunct South Node indicates failure in career?

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Emerald: career limitations? I personally don't consider any of these factors to suggest limitation or blockage in terms of your career.
Take note of Neptune being the closest to your MC, which is not afflicted: you may find yourself attracted to surprising avenues of expression in your career; things which are different and more ethereal in nature: [perhaps using the imagination in a directed manner]. Planets in the 10th house have no afflictions, per say, thus would indicate positive and successful energies surrounding the career. Saturn is not what blocks you; it is the square of Mars/Pluto that can disrupt your plans and ambitions. Since Saturn is in the 8th house, this shows areas where your focus and energies can be well-directed, and stabilized, through patience, diligence and hard work. The 9th house also shows areas of possible exploration and the search for deeper meaning and purpose in life; you are apt to require structure and purpose in whatever you find yourself doing. Also you might consider NN in Taurus [money and resources].
Ahh! Thank you so much for your input! But somehow lately last 2 years I feel completely unable to tap that focus/goal/go get them, diligence. I don't know why, I have these weird obsessions, like keeping myself till 3 am losing time reading things browsing on internet, I cant motivate myself to go working out regularly, so on. That bugs me, so I thought where in the chart that thing could come from? I am making the wrong choices in the big picture of life?

I thought Mars Pluto aspect would be more related to aggressiveness, so on. How can Mars/pluto disrupt ambitions??

Thank you!
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Unread 01-20-2013, 11:21 PM
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Re: Ruler of Midheaven conjunct South Node indicates failure in career?

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Oh Dear, the ridiculous stuff that is written about the South Node!

If you are approaching the Nodal axis from a past lives-future lives point of view, then the South Node indicates the qualities you have developed in other lives that you will use in this one. To say this is bad is as silly as saying Grade 3 is bad when you are in Grade 4, you couldn't be in Grade 4 unless you had passed Grade 3.

The ruler of the MC conjunct South Node would suggest you will use some qualities you have developed in other lifetimes in your career this lifetime.

If you prefer not to believe in reincarnation, then the South Node can indicate qualities you have inherited from an ancestor. Saturn conjunct the South Node will often indicate someone who can instinctively organise, plan and structure very well.

The South Node will often indicate skills that you willingly share with others or an area where you give out to others. The North Node can often be an area where you benefit from or receive from others.

Interestingly, Vedic astrologers say that an active South Node can indicate someone on the path of Moksha i.e. elightenment through life experience.

Also interestingly, two of Australia's most successful people, ex-Prime Minister, John Howard (26th July 1939, Earlwood, Australia) and comedian Paul Hogan (8th October 1939, 9.30 am, Granville, Australia) both had Saturn conjunct South Node. Both had long, successful marriages, John Howard has only married once and Paul Hogan twice, both for a long time.

Alice
Thanks, Alice, very interesting the last paragraph. I have no problems in married life/relationships. I have a good marriage with a man I totally trust, I have to admit I was blessed in that area in general, but the career part makes me annoyed at myself.

Even when I found a job that could give me security and good earnings, I was so empty it lead me to depression, now I got an opportunity to go back to school and only study, but I feel cornered, unsafe, and lost again...sigh I thought it was what I wanted most, but if that`s the case... why is not working out? :/

I was not like this when I was younger, I was so determined when I wanted something.

Thanks for your insights, I share your point of view on the nodes, some people turn them and saturn into boogie monsters!
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Unread 01-20-2013, 11:27 PM
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Re: Ruler of Midheaven conjunct South Node indicates failure in career?

Quite simply, Mars is important in this natal chart because Mars is the Ascendant ruler As WELL AS the exalted ruler of the MC
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Unread 01-20-2013, 11:27 PM
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Re: Ruler of Midheaven conjunct South Node indicates failure in career?

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My friend Celeste Teal has written a very fine volume on the nodes of the Moon. If you live in the USA, its worth purchasing.
Can I get maybe through Amazon Germany? I am living quite in the hinterland nowadays. Maybe through Kindle?

I have read Jan Spiller and Elizabeth Spring on it, and heard of Celeste Teal, but never read her book on the nodes; what would be the exact title? Thanks for the suggestion

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Unread 01-20-2013, 11:29 PM
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Re: Ruler of Midheaven conjunct South Node indicates failure in career?

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Claire19 makes an excellent observation and a point which needs to be kept in mind: orbs for the Lunar nodes must be tight to be meaningful, with a 2 degree orb generally considered to be maximum (I'll go as far as 3 degrees)
In the reference chart Saturn is fully 7 degrees away from the SN, so there is no nodal conjunction present in the reference chart.
But wouldn`t being in same house and sign made it have almost same meaning as a conjunction? Maybe not so precisely, or less emphasized, but as the tone of the career/public world area?
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Unread 01-20-2013, 11:33 PM
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Re: Ruler of Midheaven conjunct South Node indicates failure in career?

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Can I get maybe through Amazon Germany? I am living quite in the hinterland nowadays. Maybe through Kindle?

I have read Jan Spiller and Elizabeth Spring on it, and heard of Celeste Teal, but never read her book on the nodes; what would be the exact title? Thanks for the suggestion
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Unread 01-20-2013, 11:36 PM
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Re: Ruler of Midheaven conjunct South Node indicates failure in career?

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In traditional the South Node improves the condition of unfavorable places and reduces the malefic nature of Saturn and Mars. (Lilly may disagree.) Saturn is in mutual reception with Mars, and it beholds the 10th house. Venus in the 10th house rules the 2nd. Lot of Fortune is in the 2nd house with the North Node. This indicates that you will be successful at your occupation and lead a prosperous life. A weak Mercury does not indicate great success in academics or teaching. Mars influence usually leads to very active physical work.
Quite interesting! Would you think this is related to the fact that I hated my highly theoretical economics Bachelor degree (that I saw no direct application to real problems) and changed 180 degrees to a Masters in Geoscience? I still consider academics profession and I have a love for teaching, being tutor to many maths and statistics classes by 2 years, around the end of the BA.

Some people said I should be in military, but I am past my 18-21 years old. Maybe police force? But wouldn't a south node, saturn and pluto in scorpio 8th house suggests the opposite? Make peace, not war?

Thanks for your insight!
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Unread 01-20-2013, 11:41 PM
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Re: Ruler of Midheaven conjunct South Node indicates failure in career?

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Quite simply, Mars is important in this natal chart because Mars is the Ascendant ruler As WELL AS the exalted ruler of the MC
Thanks, You have a good point! But as I wrote to Culpeper above, wouldnt the capricorn venus jupiter conjunct and taurus north node be in direct opposition to this mars energy and the scorpio saturn/pluto/sn tone? How would you see a possible resolution of those energies?
Quote:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Culpeper
In traditional the South Node improves the condition of unfavorable places and reduces the malefic nature of Saturn and Mars. (Lilly may disagree.) Saturn is in mutual reception with Mars, and it beholds the 10th house. Venus in the 10th house rules the 2nd. Lot of Fortune is in the 2nd house with the North Node. This indicates that you will be successful at your occupation and lead a prosperous life. A weak Mercury does not indicate great success in academics or teaching. Mars influence usually leads to very active physical work.

Quite interesting! Would you think this is related to the fact that I hated my highly theoretical economics Bachelor degree (that I saw no direct application to real problems) and changed 180 degrees to a Masters in Geoscience? I still consider academics profession and I have a love for teaching, being tutor to many maths and statistics classes by 2 years, around the end of the BA.

Some people said I should be in military, but I am past my 18-21 years old. Maybe police force? But wouldn't a south node, saturn and pluto in scorpio 8th house suggests the opposite? Make peace, not war?

Thanks for your insight!
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Unread 01-20-2013, 11:44 PM
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Re: Ruler of Midheaven conjunct South Node indicates failure in career?

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It would never occur to me to interpret the ruler of your MC, even if it were Saturn, on the SN as being bad or indicating lack of success. Saturn as ruler of the MC points to the ability to bring form and ambition to your pursuits in the outer world. There may be obstacles or delays, it may not be easy, but in my experience, not much in this life is .

I also really don't see Saturn's rather widely conjoining your SN [a point rather than a planet] as having much effect on your MC [another point rather than a planet] and career. Rather it is the other way around, that Saturn on the SN may indicate some delay or difficulty finding the harmony and balance between the lunar nodal axis.

In the modern western astrology the SN points to what we we bring into this life, what we innately know, natural gifts. The NN is what we are called to learn in this life, not what will make us happy. Perhaps looking a bit more deeply into the symbolism of the lunar nodes might put your mind more at ease?

Cheers,
I was thinking about that too, if it was the other way around. And you have a point about the learning of NN, happiness can have many different qualities (fulfillment not necessary means being happy). Thanks
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Unread 01-20-2013, 11:52 PM
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Re: Ruler of Midheaven conjunct South Node indicates failure in career?

I have ruler of AC (Sun) conjunct NN and ruler of NN in 5th house

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Unread 01-21-2013, 04:11 AM
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Re: Ruler of Midheaven conjunct South Node indicates failure in career?

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The above remark is in direct opposition to your comment Culpeper

One wonders whether Lilly is the sole source of disagreement with this view of the South Node - or not
It should be remembered that the generally accepted outlook in Hellenist and Islamic-transitional era astrology (literature) regarding the SN was that it reduced benefic influences and also reduced malefic ones (and that the NN did the opposite, ie that it increased benefic and also increased malefic influences)
We really only find a different opinion regarding the Nodes (in Western astrology), beginning with Gerard of Cremona (around Bonatti's time, ie 13th century) and continuing with Agrippa and SOME of the later European authors.
My own perspective regarding the SN is much influenced by Gerard of Cremona, some of these later authors, and, of course, much so by Vedic astrological considerations regarding "Ketu" (ie, the SN)
From my understanding of the Western historical literature I would have to say that Culpeper's remarks regarding the SN accurately reflect the general Hellenist/early Traditionalist opinion regarding the SN.

Note: Culpeper's delineation regarding the indications of the OP's chart is a very fine example of Traditionalist analysis!

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Unread 01-21-2013, 04:21 AM
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Re: Ruler of Midheaven conjunct South Node indicates failure in career?

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Originally Posted by Emerald View Post
But wouldn`t being in same house and sign made it have almost same meaning as a conjunction? Maybe not so precisely, or less emphasized, but as the tone of the career/public world area?
If you accept aspect by sign (like the Greeks did, and like Vedic astrology does) as predominant over aspect by degree, then yes; for me, I give aspect by degree predominance (note: Modernist and Traditionalist astrology do not credit aspect by sign, only aspect by degree) however I will also accept aspect by sign as a secondary, somewhat modifying influence: that the SN pollutes the entire house/sign it is in, TO A CERTAIN EXTANT, I fully agree with: that it's influence is even close to what it would be if Saturn were within 3 degrees longitude of it, however, I do not accept, and (for me) I would say that the SN influence here is only mildly disruptive, and may be fully compensated for by other influences upon the sign/house and planet(s) involved.
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Unread 01-21-2013, 04:48 AM
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Re: Ruler of Midheaven conjunct South Node indicates failure in career?

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Originally Posted by dr. farr View Post
It should be remembered that the generally accepted outlook in Hellenist and Islamic-transitional era astrology (literature) regarding the SN was that it reduced benefic influences and also reduced malefic ones (and that the NN did the opposite, ie that it increased benefic and also increased malefic influences)
We really only find a different opinion regarding the Nodes (in Western astrology), beginning with Gerard of Cremona (around Bonatti's time, ie 13th century) and continuing with Agrippa and SOME of the later European authors.
My own perspective regarding the SN is much influenced by Gerard of Cremona, some of these later authors, and, of course, much so by Vedic astrological considerations regarding "Ketu" (ie, the SN)
From my understanding of the Western historical literature I would have to say that Culpeper's remarks regarding the SN accurately reflect the general Hellenist/early Traditionalist opinion regarding the SN.

Note: Culpeper's delineation regarding the indications of the OP's chart is a very fine example of Traditionalist analysis!
I've used my quota of thanks for today but just needed to say thank you dr. farr for the useful clarification
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