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  #51  
Unread 01-04-2013, 03:08 PM
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Re: The malefic Saturn ine the house of God

'….North's Horoscopes & History http://www.amazon.com/Horoscopes-His.../dp/0854810684 says (p. 23) that “….Ibn Ezra seems to have invented the 'hour circles (fixed boundary)' method, that is popularly known as 'Placidus system”.

Ibn Ezra's reconstruction of Ptolemy's system turns to be erroneous, however, as Ptolemy probably used simple whole-image system, except for the special purposes of obtaining the length of life NEVERTHELESS his ideas may have found their route to Placido via Magini.

The description is in his Book of the Fundamentals of Astronomical Tables and the relevant sections are quoted by Cablais on Cielo e Terra website.....'


Intriguing then that

“..Although Ibn Ezra vehemently criticizes the 'standard method' (that is, the 'Alchabitius' system) and attributes it to al-Khwārizmī and Ibn al-Muthannā, in the only surviving chart cast by him he uses this very method (p. 109). It's dated 29 October, 1136. It is to be found in a separate work of his...there are several charts in the later version of his Book of Nativities, but they appear to have been supplemented by the printer, Erhard Ratdolt, since the dates are from between 1462 and 1485....” source: Levente Laszlo

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  #52  
Unread 01-04-2013, 03:53 PM
nasrudin nasrudin is offline
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Re: The malefic Saturn ine the house of God

Quote:
Originally Posted by Emerald View Post
.

So maybe your Saturn in 9th house reminds you of being serious in relation to your beliefs, but to keep an eye open to irrational and bad things related to excessive dogma or a leader of a religion that act in a way that if you act blindly would you make accept everything connected with it. Maybe you are an eye opener to the religious institutions you participate in (don`t know if you have read that fairytale about the a kid being the only one to disagree with irrational crowd mentality and who sees the emperor naked?)

I don`t know if I was a little confusing, what do you think?
I've read it
and I think I can call myself an eye opener.

and here is another question
what 's the reference of true religion in the 9th house?
is it the father's religion?
or the "mainstream" religion?
if that's the case ..I'm already heretic
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  #53  
Unread 01-04-2013, 05:27 PM
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Re: The malefic Saturn ine the house of God

Always look at the Lot of the Sun, which is the Lot of Mystery, [and]
if you find it in a Jewish nativity in the sign of Aquarius, and in a
Christian nativity in the sign of Leo, and [in the nativity] of a Moslem in
the sign of Scorpio, and the ruler of the Lot is retrograde, [the person] will leave his religion, and this is a proven thing.


Not sure what you mean by the true religion of the native, but if you mean changing religions from the one you were born into then does your Part of Spirit (also known as the Lot of Mystery, or Prophecy) fall into the appropriate place with a retrograde ruler if you did? I don't see how the ruler of Leo could possibly be retrograde, though.

I also don't know if this technique actually works, as I've not had much chance to test it!

Or did you mean something else?

Last edited by Olivia; 01-04-2013 at 05:54 PM.
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  #54  
Unread 01-06-2013, 12:31 AM
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Re: The malefic Saturn ine the house of God

Quote:
Originally Posted by nasrudin View Post
and here is another question
what 's the reference of true religion in the 9th house?
is it the father's religion?
or the "mainstream" religion?
if that's the case ..I'm already heretic
Just guessing here, but the father's religion might be shown by the 9th from the 4th?

As to the bolded question this is one reference I found.

"the ninth house of pilgrimages and travels, faith and religion, wisdom, philosophy and books, also letters and legates, reports and dreams, and it signifies the beginning of [the second] half of life. Al-Andarzaghar said: the first lord of the triplicity of the house of pilgrimage signifies pilgrimage and everything which happens on it, the second one signifies faith and religion and the good state of these things and their manner, and the third one is the significator of wisdom and dreams, also stars and omens and their truth and lying in this.."

*Translation of al-Qabisi from Benjamin Dykes Introductions to Traditional Astrology
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  #55  
Unread 01-06-2013, 04:54 PM
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Re: The malefic Saturn ine the house of God

Quote:
Originally Posted by nasrudin View Post
....In my natal chart Saturn is the lord of the 9th house and is in the 9th house.....The problem is that I have 2 opposite interpretations of this position of Saturn:

- the 1st one is according to modern astrology which describes my attitude to religion and philosophy as "orthodox" and "conservative" ..

- the 2nd one tells me I'm "skeptical" and "heretic".and this according to classical astrology books.
Nasrudin, i understand your question very well.

My family inherited and passed down to the oldest child a similar astrological combination for four generations (that we know of!)

My grandfather has his Saturn at 23° Sagitarius, and my father had his Saturn at 24° Sagitarius. I have my Saturn at 22° Sagitarius on the cusp of my 8/9th house, while my son (who later died) had his Saturn at 5° Sagitarius, but his Uranus at 19° Sagitarius conjunct all of our inherited Saturns.

My grandfather was a conservative methodist church goer, but my father was an atheist and freudian psychiatrist....i don't know their exact birth times but 9th house issues have been very prominent in my family for generations.
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  #56  
Unread 01-06-2013, 05:00 PM
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Re: The malefic Saturn ine the house of God

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Just guessing here, but the father's religion might be shown by the 9th from the 4th?
Also try 9th from Sun
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  #57  
Unread 01-06-2013, 09:41 PM
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Re: The malefic Saturn ine the house of God

{Deleted comments by moderator}

Depending on your aspects elsewhere with Saturn, you are more or less rather conservative in your beliefs and morality. The 9th encompasses much more than that. It can mean you travel abroad for work rather than pleasure and often alone. Many scenarios which cant be seen without a full chart on view.
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Last edited by wintersprite1; 01-06-2013 at 10:59 PM. Reason: attacking
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  #58  
Unread 01-06-2013, 09:44 PM
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Re: The malefic Saturn ine the house of God

Quote:
Originally Posted by Moog View Post
Also try 9th from Sun
The 12th deals more with religious issues as a form of transcendence or escape so depends on the motivation for the search for a God figure. The father belongs to the 10th house, usually. Father can be a religious figure of some sort with Saturn in the 9th. As always we need the whole chart.
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  #59  
Unread 01-17-2013, 01:57 PM
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Re: The malefic Saturn ine the house of God

Quote:
Originally Posted by nasrudin View Post
I've read it
and I think I can call myself an eye opener.

and here is another question
what 's the reference of true religion in the 9th house?
is it the father's religion?
or the "mainstream" religion?
if that's the case ..I'm already heretic
Well, depends of the other planets inside that house or aspects that they receive, if Uranus is in bad aspect with the planets in the 9th house or with its ruler can indicate you don't deal well with institutional religion or too dogmatic blind religions.

But I see you have both Uranus in the 8th house in capricorn and Jupiter is in cancer and is opposed to saturn as the father figure (capricorn) in 9th house. The problem with the father religion can be from both this aspect and the saturn in the 9th in capricorn. Makes a lot of sense to me.

But since you are already worried about this topic and posting about it, seems to me you are indeed serious and worried (saturn) about God and religion, but many aspects in the chart reinforces the fact the answer for you about those subjects is not so clear or orthodox.
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  #60  
Unread 01-19-2013, 08:07 PM
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Re: The malefic Saturn ine the house of God

Quote:
Originally Posted by tsmall View Post
I think the big question about Saturn in this position is going to depend on the rest of the chart. Saturn in the 9th, if dignified or received, especially if it's a day chart, can show someone with a serious, orderly approach to matters of faith and religion. It's also a good placement for someone with a scientific approach to seeking the truth.

Saturn out of sect and/or afflicted could produce just the opposite.
I agree that it lends towards a more realistic approach to matters of faith and not just religion but a general philosophy about life and morality etc. It can also be a position that engenders a fear of God as a judgemental Father type. It does depend on the aspects made elsewhere as always.
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  #61  
Unread 01-19-2013, 08:35 PM
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Re: The malefic Saturn ine the house of God

Quote:
Originally Posted by Claire19 View Post
The 12th deals more with religious issues as a form of transcendence or escape....
Significations of 12th include its association with imprisonment and slavery
Quote:
Originally Posted by MaeMae View Post
how about slaves to love?
the more i think about it, that speaks to 12th/6th axis as much as anything.
A thread discussing 12th/6th axis connection with all forms of slavery and imprisonment http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum...744#post384744
Quote:
Originally Posted by JUPITERASC View Post
.....physical 'chains' and 'whips' associated with past slavery continue in various forms all over the world in the 21st Century... e.g. as in

(a) physical violence experienced by those in abusive relationships (sometimes work-related) who although not 'physically chained', nevertheless feel too intimated to walk away from their 'keeper'...


(b) non-physical bondage which uses the 'chains' and 'whips' of threats and intimidation e.g. fear of the consequences of having no money - i.e. homelessness, social exclusion – keeping billions in bondage on a work-related treadmill of drudgery.

Obviously there ARE those who love their work and/or daily activities that they perform in return for money BUT there are those who have to accept work and/or daily activities they dislike in return for money - even though many have diplomas/degrees and qualifications of varying kinds but are unable to find the work they would love to do and so their work is in fact a form of abhorrent bondage

chronic disease, drug addiction and educational bondage are being considered as forms of slavery and there is also the idea of being 'born into slavery' - due for example to having drug addicted parents
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  #62  
Unread 02-21-2013, 08:23 PM
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Re: The malefic Saturn ine the house of God

The 9th house supposed to be at the end of the dark tunnel we go through (8th house) at the end of dark tunnel when we find light and knowledge of what happened (oth house crisis) it also growth
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  #63  
Unread 02-21-2013, 08:29 PM
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Re: The malefic Saturn ine the house of God

I have saturn 22 pisces and the 9th house start at 24 pisces which means two degree away so it conjunct it and influence it I really like to get an analysis about it
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  #64  
Unread 02-08-2014, 08:24 PM
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Re: The malefic Saturn ine the house of God

Hi there
Very interesting, your discussion here. I also have Saturn in my 9th house, on my north node in aries. I also have the moon in the 9th, and Jupiter conjunct my rising. For me, the 9th house has meant that I would spend a lot of time in foreign countries. I have always been very spiritual, but very open-minded about religion. And I chose religious studies as my minor at university, and then worked as a teaching assistant for the department. Saturn is a teacher, whether you like it or not. I now work as a language teacher and have a lot of contact with people from all over the world! But also the negative statements apply to me. I've had some tough experiences living abroad - I spent 10 years on my Saturn line (in astrocartography, that is). So, yes, religion, foreign cultures and languages, philosophy, and sensing the future sometimes, are clearly manifestations of the 9th house.
Cheers
Ariel
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  #65  
Unread 10-06-2019, 05:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JUPITERASC View Post
Exactly.

9th is above the horizon but in a day chart with Sun below the horizon, Saturn would be out of sect in 9th whether located in Libra or not and - according to Hellenistic astrologers - Saturn would therefore be acting COUNTER to the agenda of in-sect planets. One wonders whether the chart in question is therefore a night chart or a day chart because at this stage we are generalising
How can a day chart have the sun below the horizon?😊
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