Does pluto really matter?

K

kar

Member
Hello
Some dwarf and asteroids are being studied.
Eris is bigger than Pluto.
Ceres, Haumea, Sedna, Makemake are important too.

I'd like to know the real effects of Pluto by your experience.
I can't realize the true effects of Pluto yet.

Transformation is a general fact, do you know some more specific effect?
Thank you.

***
I Appreciate all your comments, now it's in Transits subject, no way.
It was interesting to know about LIGHT and MASS.
This body has no light and minimal gravity.
Are aspects happened to you about Pluto effects?
Thank you again.
 
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JUPITERASC

JUPITERASC

Well-known member
kar said:
Hello
Some dwarf and asteroids are being studied.
Eris is bigger than Pluto.
Ceres, Haumea, Sedna, Makemake are important too.

I'd like to know the real effects of Pluto by your experience.
I can't realize the true effects of Pluto yet.

Transformation is a general fact, do you know some more specific effect?
Thank you.
Click to expand...
Pluto was discovered approximately two thousand years after ancient astrologers worked with a study aid known as
Ptolemy's Table of Essential Dignity and Debility

dignities2.gif


Pluto is absent from the above ancient table :smile:

BobZemco said:
............Pluto does not cast Rays or cast Light.

Even without telescopes, you can detect The Seven (Moon, Mercury, Venus, Sun, Mars, Jupiter and Saturn)
with ESM sensors (passive devices that detect radiated or reflected electromagnetic radiation --

the same radio signals that degrade or enhance radio signals on Earth),

but not the 3 Outers.
Click to expand...

'…..PLUTO, FORMAL DESIGNATION 134340 PLUTO,
IS THE SECOND-MOST-MASSIVE KNOWN DWARF PLANET IN THE SOLAR SYSTEM
(AFTER ERIS) and the tenth-most-massive body observed directly orbiting the Sun.
Originally classified as the ninth planet from the Sun,
PLUTO WAS RECATEGORIZED AS A DWARF PLANET AND PLUTOID
OWING TO THE DISCOVERY THAT IT IS ONLY ONE OF SEVERAL LARGE BODIES WITHIN THE KUIPER BELT. Pluto is composed primarily of rock and ice and is relatively small, approximately one-sixth the mass of the Earth's Moon and one-third its volume....'


'….From its discovery in 1930 until 2006, Pluto was classified as a planet until 1970's when, following the discovery of minor planet 2060 Chiron in the outer Solar System and the recognition of Pluto's relatively low mass, its status as a major planet began to be questioned. Many objects similar to Pluto were being discovered in the outer Solar System, notably the scattered disc object Eris in 2005, which is 27% more massive than Pluto...'.


'….24 August 2006, the International Astronomical Union (IAU) defined what it means to be a "planet" within the Solar System. This definition excluded Pluto as a planet and added it as a member of the new category "dwarf planet" along with Eris and Ceres. After the reclassification, Pluto was added to the list of minor planets and given the number 134340. A number of scientists hold that Pluto should continue to be classified as a planet, and that other dwarf planets should be added to the roster of planets along with Pluto.....'

 
BobZemco

BobZemco

Well-known member
JUPITERASC said:
'….24 August 2006, the International Astronomical Union (IAU) defined what it means to be a "planet" within the Solar System. This definition excluded Pluto as a planet and added it as a member of the new category "dwarf planet" along with Eris and Ceres. After the reclassification, Pluto was added to the list of minor planets and given the number 134340. A number of scientists hold that Pluto should continue to be classified as a planet, and that other dwarf planets should be added to the roster of planets along with Pluto.....'
Click to expand...

How many hold membership in the International Astronomical Union (IAU)?

How many attended the annual convention?

How many actually voted on the matter?

Resolution 6A: "Definition of Pluto-class objects" was passed with 237 votes in favour, 157 against and 17 abstentions

Only members present at the convention were eligible to cast votes.

I guess it's a good thing that little girl didn't suggest the Planet be named Betty Boop.
 
D

dr. farr

Well-known member
Moderators: Please remove this thread from the Traditional Astrology Forum: discussions of the outer planets are not within the context of the astrological model developed prior to 1700 AD, which is what is generally referred to as "Traditional Western Astrology". AW Forum rules state that the Traditional Astrology Forum is for "discussions on Traditional astrology ONLY"...
 
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The Ram

The Ram

Well-known member
BobZemco said:
............Pluto does not cast Rays or cast Light.

Even without telescopes, you can detect The Seven (Moon, Mercury, Venus, Sun, Mars, Jupiter and Saturn)
with ESM sensors (passive devices that detect radiated or reflected electromagnetic radiation --

the same radio signals that degrade or enhance radio signals on Earth),

but not the 3 Outers.
Click to expand...
Why is this supposed to matter?

Also why are scientists opinions supposed to matter on an astrology forum? Most Scientists today would say that we're all wasting our time here, that astrology is garbage. So why is their opinion suddenly gospel?
 
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Phoenix Venus

Phoenix Venus

Well-known member
What matters is the orbits. Nothing else. The planets all have specific orbits that are in tune with one another. The LAST celestial body (pluto) is just as important as the first (sun.) You will see that often in life, last comes first. And astrological themes always apply to life, because the themes are universal. humans reflect the cosmos and the cosmos reflect humans.

you will see that orbits of the lower and higher octave planets will match up perfectly.

So it is apparent with mars and pluto's orbit.

It's just math. Math does not lie, it's the building block of the universe. But of course, that info applied to astrology is pretty dangerously valuable in spiritual-minded hands so some will try to hide it for their own advantage. Don't let anyone try to sway you that math is nonsense and always take a look into astrological matters for yourself.

Hopefully I can have my great friend and teacher, piercethevale, explain the orbits to me in more depth so that I can show my work. :tongue: He's explained it before around the forum, I just can't find it right now.

Btw, does it really matter if this is in the "trad" or "modern" forum? It's info. We astrologers know that there ARE outer planets, so why should traditionalists steer from talking about them, just for the sake of other astrologer's opinions who did not know about them? Traditionalists should actually being the one taking the MOST DISCERNING look into the outer planets. I mean, if the tradition is that the outer planets don't matter, shouldn't that be looked into, so it can be backed up by math and astrological symbolism?
 
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Phoenix Venus

Phoenix Venus

Well-known member
JUPITERASC, you say that Pluto does not fit "the criteria."

I am wondering if you can show why that criteria actually matters, especially in an astrological sense.
 
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JUPITERASC

JUPITERASC

Well-known member
The Ram said:
Why is this supposed to matter?

Also why are scientists opinions supposed to matter on an astrology forum? Most Scientists today would say that we're all wasting our time here, that astrology is garbage. So why is their opinion suddenly gospel?
Click to expand...
Because some say astrology is a science
whereas others say astrology is divination
AND there are those as well who consider astrology is an elaborate hoax
AND there are those who simply do not know :smile:

In India for example, astrology is OFFICIALLY a Science
 
JUPITERASC

JUPITERASC

Well-known member
Phoenix Venus said:
JUPITERASC, you say that Pluto does not fit "the criteria."

I am wondering if you can show why that criteria actually matters, especially in an astrological sense.
Click to expand...
Astrology is associated with delineation of planets

'......For an object to be a planet
it needs to meet three requirements
defined by the IAU:


(1) The object needs to be in orbit around the Sun
Pluto orbits the Sun so maybe Pluto is a planet.


(2) The object needs to have enough gravity to pull itself into a spherical shape
Pluto is doing that so maybe Pluto is a planet

BUT

(3) The object ALSO needs
to have “cleared the neighborhood” of its orbit

– Uh oh. That was the rule breaker. Pluto IS NOT the dominant gravitational body in its orbit in the Solar System
so Pluto is not a planet....'


QUOTE:
“As planets form, they become the dominant gravitational body in their orbit in the Solar System

As planets interact with other, smaller objects, they either consume them, or sling them away with their gravity


Pluto is only 0.07 times the mass of the other objects in its orbit.

Earth, in comparison to Pluto, has 1.7 million times the mass of the other objects in its orbit :smile: ”
Source: http://www.universetoday.com/13573/w...nger-a-planet/
 
Phoenix Venus

Phoenix Venus

Well-known member
Pluto has other masses in it's orbit. Those masses relate to the nature of pluto or cyclic rebirth. some might even represent "the demons" within someones soul. which just represents karmic sorrow. I'm not even sure if pallas and ceres related to pluto orbit, but one or both of them might deal with "venus- karmic lessons" : karma of love. maybe the other mass bodies in plutos orbit deal with karmic lessons associated with that planet... (venus/mars/merc etc.) pluto is what allows them to be reborn.

it is worth checking this theory out to see what other masses are in plutos orbit and if it can astrologically be shown in any way what these masses mean. Check if these masses come in contact with people in your life that you have "karmic" relationships with. I'm suspecting relationships is either ceres or pallas. I am using this based on astrological knowledge only and not sure which is these is in plutos orbit. Try it with other masses in pluto's orbit, using sabian symbols, planetary aspects, and Arabic parts to see if those masses relate in any way to themes of other planets and their likely karmic outcomes.

Pluto is truly the rebirth from secrecy! It is shown within it's own inherent nature of the way it handles the mass in its orbit.
 
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JUPITERASC

JUPITERASC

Well-known member
pluto-planet-profile-1130702-02.jpg


'.....There are currently 5 recognised 'Dwarf Planets' but it is certain that there are many more in the Kuiper Belt that have not yet been identified.

Any body in the Kuiper Belt with enough mass to attain "hydrostatic equilibrium" - meaning that it has enough mass that its gravity crushes it into a sphere - will be another "dwarf planet".

There may be dozens or hundreds of them, but they are so small and far away that we haven't noticed them yet...'



THE FIVE RECOGNISED DWARF PLANETS ARE:

Ceres - between Mars and Jupiter in the asteroid belt.
Pluto
Eris
Makemake
Haumea


QUOTE


'...As of Thursday 2 May 2013 :smile:

there are:


8 objects which are nearly certainly dwarf planets,

30 objects which are highly likely to be dwarf planets,

62 objects which are likely to be dwarf planets,

106 objects which are probably dwarf planets, and

396 objects which are possibly dwarf planets....' source: California Institute of Technology http://www.gps.caltech.edu/~mbrown/dps.html
 
Phoenix Venus

Phoenix Venus

Well-known member
Thank you for your help in the matter of clarifying that ceres is not in plutos orbit, jupiterasc. But I note that you did not respond to my other posts, which means "point taken." So again I thank you for your help towards my cause in discovering the true nature of pluto.

Now it is just a matter of determining which masses are in pluto and in what way they might relate to the rebirth through other planets karmic lessons.
 
Phoenix Venus

Phoenix Venus

Well-known member
More in regards to ceres and chiron.

(chiron is a comet which derived from the same impact that caused the asteroid belt.)

Those planets relate to the planet that once was called Tiamat, between the asteroid belt. That planet was destroyed from an impact in the early stages of the solar systems creation.

That planet connected above and below. Inner and Outer planets. The material and the spiritual. (we want them to work together, not against one another.)

So those asteroids and comet relate to many themes of connecting the hevens and the humans. Some more human than heaven, some more heaven than human, of course :)
 
Phoenix Venus

Phoenix Venus

Well-known member
correction on the last post. (I am having trouble logging in and editing posts.)

I meant to say that tiamat was located where the asteroid belt now is.

That is, from what I've gauged based on human understandings of the way physics works in space.
 
JUPITERASC

JUPITERASC

Well-known member
Phoenix Venus said:
Thank you for your help in the matter of clarifying that ceres is not in plutos orbit, jupiterasc.
Click to expand...
That's ok
Phoenix Venus said:
But I note that you did not respond to my other posts, which means "point taken."
Click to expand...
That is an inference that does not necessarily follow
i.e not everyone would agree with your interpretation of my non-response :smile:
Phoenix Venus said:
So again I thank you for your help towards my cause in discovering the true nature of pluto.
Click to expand...
Glad to have been of service.

My concern however is with establishing the importance of Sun, Moon, Mercury, Venus, Mars, Jupiter, Saturn, MC/IC/DESC/ASC, fixed stars
Phoenix Venus said:
Now it is just a matter of determining which masses are in pluto and in what way they might relate to the rebirth through other planets karmic lessons.
Click to expand...
Clearly to you, pluto does matter. Best of luck with your quest
 
Phoenix Venus

Phoenix Venus

Well-known member
So ceres might relate to the theme of Connecting Venus and Neptune.

At least, this is what I have noticed from my studying of multiple charts. And it fits with what we know of the history of the solar system, the building blocks of life (math), and the way humans interact with one another.
 
Phoenix Venus

Phoenix Venus

Well-known member
Jupiterasc, this might not be the most appropriate thread to place this but I figure it is better said here than in pm, and I know you were following the thread.

I would be interested if you could explain your interest in fixed stars and the best way to quickly decipher which ones take prelevence in a chart. (for instance, if you have any resources containing comprehensive lists on fixed stars and their meanings, and relatively current degree placement)

Maybe I will search around your threads and see if there is a better place to discuss this, but I would still appreciate some response back to acknowledge your willingness to discuss this matter with me. I would like to study them and of course, once I get a firm grasp on them, which likely will take some time but not as much if you are involved, I will report my findings to you and others in the forum. :)
 
JUPITERASC

JUPITERASC

Well-known member
Phoenix Venus said:
Jupiterasc, this might not be the most appropriate thread to place this but I figure it is better said here than in pm, and I know you were following the thread.

I would be interested if you could explain your interest in fixed stars and the best way to quickly decipher which ones take prelevence in a chart. (for instance, if you have any resources containing comprehensive lists on fixed stars and their meanings, and relatively current degree placement)
Click to expand...
Fixed stars are of great importance to traditional astrologers as well as to some - but not all - modern astrologers
Phoenix Venus said:
Maybe I will search around your threads and see if there is a better place to discuss this, but I would still appreciate some response back to acknowledge your willingness to discuss this matter with me. I would like to study them and of course, once I get a firm grasp on them, which likely will take some time but not as much if you are involved, I will report my findings to you and others in the forum. :)
Click to expand...
VISIBLE NIGHT SKIES is a thread for those interested to observe fixed stars and other visible celestial objects http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/showthread.php?t=60232&highlight=fixed

DECLINATIONS OF SEVERAL STARS ALONG THE ECLIPTIC http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/showthread.php?t=25025
 
T

The_Saturnian

Well-known member
If Pluto is not classed as a planet, why do some books get published with material based on Pluto? Hence in my opinion if it orbits the Sun we do get influenced by it. There's absolutely no point in studying a subject if you're not going to accept the finer details and also adapt an "I'm always learning" attitude. Having a dogmatic view of things will never give you a deeper insight into anything, and therefore you may well remain in the dark about certain things.

However, I will also point out here that there those who follow Traditional Astrology and, yes, this is the stem of the tree of astrology whether one is a follower of traditional or modern.
 
K

Konrad

Account Closed
The_Saturnian said:
If Pluto is not classed as a planet, why do some books get published with material based on Pluto? Hence in my opinion if it orbits the Sun we do get influenced by it. There's absolutely no point in studying a subject if you're not going to accept the finer details and also adapt an "I'm always learning" attitude. Having a dogmatic view of things will never give you a deeper insight into anything, and therefore you may well remain in the dark about certain things.

However, I will also point out here that there those who follow Traditional Astrology and, yes, this is the stem of the tree of astrology whether one is a follower of traditional or modern.
Click to expand...

Dogmatic views are not good, but what of philosphical principles? If visible light is a foundational philosphical principle in your practice, how can you then make room for Pluto or the myriad of other varying sizes of debris orbiting the Sun? Where do you draw the line? How can you have a coherent system when there are presumably a number of yet-to-be discovered bodies in varying orbits?
 
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