Venus in Aquarius

david starling · Sep 22, 2017

Andrea_ said:
I just love this idea! Maybe my Saturn dominanted chart is at fault, but I definitely think people should learn to see the effects of their actions or words/thoughts, and take responsibility, instead of blindily be squished and thrown in every possible way by "karma" and blame it on this "cruel world", like the Universe was built to stop them from growing.

I also say the same about the 12th House: magical yet highly misunderstood (Sun in Capricorn there, conjunct Jupiter). No house is automatically doomed (Saturn won't doom you either), where do people get such ideas? Just harder to handle, yes, comparatively speaking in the context of different societies, but it also pays off, in other ways.

(Also got Moon conj. Venus in Aqua., 1st House of Cappy)

The problem we have is that the people who CAN'T handle Saturn at ALL go on power-trips and turn into monsters. Since it's the mundane, Tropical Age of Capricorn, they really DO have power over us through their egregious misuse of Capricornian Age technology, which is usually meant to make life better, not enable tyranny. Alfred Nobel, for example, invented dynamite for building roads and tunnels. He had the best of intentions. But everything invented to solve civilization-building problems, including the Internet, is co opted by those who want ultimate power and authority. The Aquarian Age will prevent that from happening.

Andrea_ · Sep 23, 2017

david starling said:
The problem we have is that the people who CAN'T handle Saturn at ALL go on power-trips and turn into monsters. Since it's the mundane, Tropical Age of Capricorn, they really DO have power over us through their egregious misuse of Capricornian Age technology, which is usually meant to make life better, not enable tyranny. Alfred Nobel, for example, invented dynamite for building roads and tunnels. He had the best of intentions. But everything invented to solve civilization-building problems, including the Internet, is co opted by those who want ultimate power and authority. The Aquarian Age will prevent that from happening.

Just a (or some) wild thought(s), but how come we, unlike any other animal species living in packs/groups etc, are following these "monsters", empowering them, and letting them become what they are, in other words, how come we are following those who don't want our good and would rather push us from a cliff for their individual survival? I'm not saying to not help people in need, but to not put the ones with these kind of issues as leaders of the pack (to the complete doom).

Isn't there something else at fault, not simply Saturn's influence? Isn't it the society's fault? To me the planets do not bear the concepts of "bad influence" in their raw state, that is just a human fault at interpreting astrology in accordance with the thinking frames of one's time and spiritual development. We have all the necessary tools to filter the planets' effects.

What you said clicks with me as the American society more than others (or less, depends what we compare it with).

I've seen enough lack of seriosity, carefreeness and promiscuity to favour a more Saturnian approach in a society. But then again, I do have Sun, ASC, Juno and 4 other planets in the sign of Capricorn, and Saturn is also my final dispositor, Pluto transiting everything, and I'm more than used to dealing with the "skeletons" in the closets, which is something people fail at and need to blame it on something.

Yes, the Aquarian age will prevent the "doom" from happening (earlier than necessary), but it's not going to happen if everyone's ignoring the real issues here within.

aquarius7000 · Sep 23, 2017

Andrea_ said:
...Isn't there something else at fault, not simply Saturn's influence? Isn't it the society's fault? To me the planets do not bear the concepts of "bad influence" in their raw state, that is just a human fault at interpreting astrology in accordance with the thinking frames of one's time and spiritual development. We have all the necessary tools to filter the planets' effects...

Sorry, but I must disagree. What we are trying to do is decode this universe and what happens inside it via the stars. Hence, both the good AND the bad is decoded through the planets. After all, we do have the down side of planets and luminaries too, as well as the elements of water and air that we see in the form of eclipses. There is a reason why we have the concept of duality, malefics and benefics in (traditional) astrology.

Where the human being comes in is that we do have the free will to decide HOW we will handle a certain specific circumstance. Will be get aggressive under hot and dry Mars' influence, or will we exercise that same planet's grit to stand our ground calmly.

I suggest either getting a good traditional astrology book to get oneself a solid foundation or, for now, at least study each individual planet on skyscript.co.uk

Andrea_ · Sep 23, 2017

aquarius7000 said:
Sorry, but I must disagree. What we are trying to do is decode this universe and what happens inside it via the stars. Hence, both the good AND the bad is decoded through the planets. After all, we do have the down side of planets and luminaries too, as well as the elements of water and air that we see in the form of eclipses. There is a reason why we have the concept of duality, malefics and benefics in (traditional) astrology.

Where the human being comes in is that we do have the free will to decide HOW we will handle a certain specific circumstance. Will be get aggressive under hot and dry Mars' influence, or will we exercise that same planet's grit to stand our ground calmly.

I suggest either getting a good traditional astrology book to get oneself a solid foundation or, for now, at least study each individual planet on skyscript.co.uk

I don't disagree with the duality of things in our "human" context. But I like to believe in the absolute (cosmic?) neutrality of things. I'm no "God" either way to speak about the true nature of things.

aquarius7000 · Sep 23, 2017

Andrea_ said:
I don't disagree with the duality of things in our "human" context ^^ But I like to believe in the absolute (cosmic?) neutrality of things. I'm no "God" either way to speak about the true nature of things.

This time I must agree :biggrin:

as in that it is all energy and we humans have the free will to use any side of the coin.

david starling · Sep 23, 2017

aquarius7000 said:
This time I must agree as in that it is all energy and we humans have the free will to use any side of the coin.

Does that mean you believe that we somehow freely choose our Natal chart configurations, our genetics, and our circumstances at birth and early childhood? Because free will operates within one's own, personal situation. What's easy for one may be difficult or nearly impossible for someone else. Even the ability to exercise free will varies a lot. I prefer the "luck of the draw", "you have to play with the hand you're dealt", "there but for "Fortune go you, or go I", concept. Interdependent Individualism is about sharing our strengths and abilities. Venus in Aquarius helps with that.

aquarius7000 · Sep 23, 2017

david starling said:
Does that mean you believe that we somehow freely choose our Natal chart configurations, our genetics, and our circumstances at birth and early childhood?...

Yes, we do. Through our own karma/actions - that is how we create our own destiny. We even pick the parents we are born, too.

david starling · Sep 24, 2017

aquarius7000 said:
Yes, we do. Through our own karma/actions - that is how we create our own destiny. We even pick the parents we are born, too.

Since I don't like that idea, because it leads to a "blame the victim" mentality, I don't subscribe to it. But, it can't be proven wrong or proven right. I prefer luck of the draw, and there but for Fortune. Not arguing, just sayin. :biggrin:

aquarius7000 · Sep 24, 2017

david starling said:
Since I don't like that idea, because it leads to a "blame the victim" mentality, I don't subscribe to it. But, it can't be proven wrong or proven right. I prefer luck of the draw, and there but for Fortune. Not arguing, just sayin.

It doesn't depend on whether or not you "like the idea", or that one condemns it as "blame the victim mentality", but on the only one understandable and sensible reasoning of "the doer taking responsibility of one's OWN actions". People fear taking responsibility of one's own actions when they are doers of wrong actions and then like to call themselves "victims" of circumstances, and taking responsibility of their very own actions is then called "blame the victim", where they like to think that they are poor victims (makes them pass the blame on to the universe). When you are the doer of the action, you can call yourself whatever, you do have full responsibility of your own actions. That karma weaves the web of your own destiny further. This has been discussed in detail on the "Karma" thread.

david starling · Sep 24, 2017

aquarius7000 said:
It doesn't depend on whether or not you "like the idea", or that one condemns it as "blame the victim mentality", but on the only one understandable and sensible reasoning of "the doer taking responsibility of one's OWN actions". People fear taking responsibility of one's own actions when they are doers of wrong actions and then like to call themselves "victims" of circumstances, and taking responsibility of their very own actions is then called "blame the victim", where they like to think that they are poor victims (makes them pass the blame on to the universe). When you are the doer of the action, you can call yourself whatever, you do have full responsibility of your own actions. That karma weaves the web of your own destiny further. This has been discussed in detail on the "Karma" thread.

Often, people actually ARE victims of circumstances beyond their control, UNLESS you buy into the idea that ALL circumstances are self-created of one's own free will (which I don't). Obviously, I'm in favor of people taking responsibility for their own actions. I just don't blame them for making mistakes due to lack of guidance and/or useful information in THIS lifetime, or for being caught up in things like war, hurricanes, or earthquakes and tsunamis.

Abby83 · Sep 24, 2017

David starling and aquarius7000 I've been conflicted about the very same thing. Part of me feels we choose our life before we are born and the other part of me feels it is picked for us by a higher being. But once created I do feel we have destiny to carry out and the right things will occur to make sure that happens.

david starling · Sep 24, 2017

Abby83 said:
David starling and aquarius7000 I've been conflicted about the very same thing. Part of me feels we choose our life before we are born and the other part of me feels it is picked for us by a higher being. But once created I do feel we have destiny to carry out and the right things will occur to make sure that happens.

Yes. Regardless of how we got here, we can still get where we're going. It's amazing how well things sometimes work out right and help you along, when your intentions are clear.

Abby83 · Sep 24, 2017

david starling said:
yes. Regardless of how we got here, we can still get where we're going. It's amazing how well things sometimes work out right and help you along, when your intentions are clear.

yep 👏👏👏👌👌👌.

aquarius7000 · Sep 24, 2017

david starling said:
Often, people actually ARE victims of circumstances beyond their control, UNLESS you buy into the idea that ALL circumstances are self-created of one's own free will (which I don't). Obviously, I'm in favor of people taking responsibility for their own actions. I just don't blame them for making mistakes due to lack of guidance and/or useful information in THIS lifetime, or for being caught up in things like war, hurricanes, or earthquakes and tsunamis.

People are never victims at all. Those circumstances you think are "beyond control" of people are the baggage from many lifetimes, the balance sheet that is yet to come down to nil, the people that you are yet to pay your debt to from some previous incarnation, when you might have abused them, or they you. The tsunamis and earthquakes are the result of mass karma. Even there, you are born in that area. Why are some born in the absolute barren areas of Rwanda, whilst others in rich nations such as Denmark and Sweden, where not just your parents, but even the government provides for you. EVERYthing/one/place is related to our own karma. So, no, God does not love one more than the other and creates some as the Queen of England and others as victims. That is the limitation of our own minds, and our lack of knowledge or high ignorance that make us think that we are victims. We create our own destiny every living second of our lives, always have in every incarnation. The only "idea I buy into" is that of The Bhagavad Gita - the only scripture on this planet that makes 100% sense and has an answer to every question without creating fear and without saying that if you don't go to a church or temple every Sunday, you shall be damned. No offence intended. I do not care how man twists any teachings out of that book to make it look bad, I just care and try to follow (and I have to do better than I am right now) what is there in it.

sadge · Sep 24, 2017

david starling said:
The problem we have is that the people who CAN'T handle Saturn at ALL go on power-trips and turn into monsters. Since it's the mundane, Tropical Age of Capricorn, they really DO have power over us through their egregious misuse of Capricornian Age technology, which is usually meant to make life better, not enable tyranny. Alfred Nobel, for example, invented dynamite for building roads and tunnels. He had the best of intentions. But everything invented to solve civilization-building problems, including the Internet, is co opted by those who want ultimate power and authority. The Aquarian Age will prevent that from happening.

IMO, this is a good example of how chart interpretation is more delicate than how I see it handled at times. This is not to say that I am an good at it, but that it requires more sensitivity and focus than what I see demonstrated at times. One example of this is how people interpret Saturn and work with its energy (perhaps even conflicting energies). Everyone is not wired to easily subscribe to established structures, bureaucratic norms, or institutionalized forms of authority (saturn). Some people are not wired to think/act “inside the box” and stay inside the box. (Although I’m sure that kings love to have their population filled with obedient creatures.) There are plenty of examples we can find of people who made great contributions to mankind thanks to their squares to saturn --- their deliberate rejection of the establishment. Now don’t take this as an umbrella statement that all squares to saturn are good. I am only pointing out that how one interprets Saturn (or any planet, really), and chooses to work with those energies, is a far more complex interpretation than simply defaulting to "karma."

sadge · Sep 24, 2017

aquarius7000 said:
People are never victims at all. Those circumstances you think are "beyond control" of people are the baggage from many lifetimes, the balance sheet that is yet to come down to nil, the people that you are yet to pay your debt to from some previous incarnation, when you might have abused them, or they you. The tsunamis and earthquakes are the result of mass karma. Even there, you are born in that area. Why are some born in the absolute barren areas of Rwanda, whilst others in rich nations such as Denmark and Sweden, where not just your parents, but even the government provides for you. EVERYthing/one/place is related to our own karma.

I disagree with this idea because it suggests that all humans deserve to suffer. The fact that any school of thought, religion, or established form of spirituality can assert that some groups of people deserve to suffer because of “karma” is sickening to me. Nobody deserves to be hurt.

I won’t entertain the idea that I am more worthy than another person because I may have been granted certain benefits in my lifetime (due to “karma?”), nor will I give any merit to a belief system that suggests other people deserve to live in a state of pain, hunger, poverty, war, disease, or under the threat of natural disasters…..all because of “karma.”

I can appreciate the generalized idea of karma as a way for people to conceptualize a life driven to spread goodness rather than harm. But I draw the line at any extreme or fatalistic teachings that twists around a beautiful concept into something that justifies the painful reality for millions of people around the globe today. In my opinion, it is very arrogant for any school of thought to suggest that others deserve their suffering; moreover, it doesn’t serve any purpose other than to make certain people feel good about themselves for not having to suffer in the same way. Humanity is more than our lowest common denominator. Humanity is capable of more than what we see around us. We have minds that can reach higher and see potential in ways that are unmatched by any other living species. Therefore I reject the idea that it’s justified for anyone to suffer. That is when the term "karma" starts to lose it's cuteness with me.

But I respect everyone's right to follow their own belief system. Whatever works for you is fine with me. These are only my opinions.

david starling · Sep 24, 2017

sadge said:
IMO, this is a good example of how chart interpretation is more delicate than how I see it handled at times. This is not to say that I am an good at it, but that it requires more sensitivity and focus than what I see demonstrated at times. One example of this is how people interpret Saturn and work with its energy (perhaps even conflicting energies). Everyone is not wired to easily subscribe to established structures, bureaucratic norms, or institutionalized forms of authority (saturn). Some people are not wired to think/act “inside the box” and stay inside the box. (Although I’m sure that kings love to have their population filled with obedient creatures.) There are plenty of examples we can find of people who made great contributions to mankind thanks to their squares to saturn --- their deliberate rejection of the establishment. Now don’t take this as an umbrella statement that all squares to saturn are good. I am only pointing out that how one interprets Saturn (or any planet, really), and chooses to work with those energies, is a far more complex interpretation than simply defaulting to "karma."

Ever listened to any Alan Watts? Amazing guy, who never "grew old". His wife was reading the Bhagavad Gita to him while he was dying.

Abby83 · Sep 24, 2017

sadge said:
I disagree with this idea because it suggests that all humans deserve to suffer. The fact that any school of thought, religion, or established form of spirituality can assert that some groups of people deserve to suffer because of “karma” is sickening to me. Nobody deserves to be hurt.

I won’t entertain the idea that I am more worthy than another person because I may have been granted certain benefits in my lifetime (due to “karma?”), nor will I give any merit to a belief system that suggests other people deserve to live in a state of pain, hunger, poverty, war, disease, or under the threat of natural disasters…..all because of “karma.”

I can appreciate the generalized idea of karma as a way for people to conceptualize a life driven to spread goodness rather than harm. But I draw the line at any extreme or fatalistic teachings that twists around a beautiful concept into something that justifies the painful reality for millions of people around the globe today. In my opinion, it is very arrogant for any school of thought to suggest that others deserve their suffering; moreover, it doesn’t serve any purpose other than to make certain people feel good about themselves for not having to suffer in the same way. Humanity is more than our lowest common denominator. Humanity is capable of more than what we see around us. We have minds that can reach higher and see potential in ways that are unmatched by any other living species. Therefore I reject the idea that it’s justified for anyone to suffer. That is when the term "karma" starts to lose it's cuteness with me.

But I respect everyone's right to follow their own belief system. Whatever works for you is fine with me. These are only my opinions.

Perfectly said sadge ❤️. Thanks for saving me the time to write this. You wrote it for me lol. Yes some ppl are definitely victims and cannot escape their situation. Like those poor babies born with cancer and die 6 months later. As far as destiny goes, yeah that baby was useful for cancer research and understanding and education for the human race, but the baby still had a **** life.

aquarius7000 · Sep 24, 2017

Abby83 said:
...Yes some ppl are definitely victims and cannot escape their situation. Like those poor babies born with cancer and die 6 months later. As far as destiny goes, yeah that baby was useful for cancer research and understanding and education for the human race, but the baby still had a **** life.

Being born in certain (unfortunate) circumstances also has to do with the native's own karma in one of the past incarnations. They seem like victims and we feel sad for them, and it indeed is said, but it all is one's own web of karma. We cannot remember our past lives, so we feel life is so unfair to some and too kind to others, but that is not the way it works.

I strongly, strongly suggest reading The Gita if one really wants to understand the whole concept in its entirety. There are no victims.

david starling · Sep 24, 2017

aquarius7000 said:
Being born in certain (unfortunate) circumstances also has to do with the native's own karma in one of the past incarnations. They seem like victims and we feel sad for them, and it indeed is said, but it all is one's own web of karma. We cannot remember our past lives, so we feel life is so unfair to some and too kind to others, but that is not the way it works.

I strongly, strongly suggest reading The Gita if one really wants to understand the whole concept in its entirety. There are no victims.

I consider Saturn as a perpetrator under current and past Age -conditions. But, it's nothing personal. Some are able to avoid being too badly victimized, some aren't. But painting a smily on Saturn, and believing this is just the way "it is, and is meant to be" doesn't work for me.

Venus in Aquarius

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