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Unread 05-25-2014, 07:21 PM
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Parivartana Yoga confusion!

Hello everyone,


I have a question about parivartan yoga. In this yoga, two planets forming parivartan yoga are deemed to be in other's house, right? Now is this assumption applicable only when considering or determining the effect of the houses forming this yoga vis-a-vis eachother or for the whole chart?

I am not quite sure if i have worded the question right. So I am pasting the chart in which I encountered this problem. This chart belongs to a very famous religious leader. Here Ke and Sa in the 2nd house and Ve and Ra in 8th house form tapasvi yoga. But Ve in Pisces in 8th house is also forming parivartana yoga with Jupiter in Taurus in 10th house. So according to rules of parivartana yoga, Ve should be considered in 10th house and Jupiter in 8th house but if it happens there won't be any tapasvi yoga, which according to his life facts as documented, should be there. I guess I make more sense now than I did in the earlier para. Any help is appreciated!



Thanks


P.S. Planet with Venus is Rahu
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Unread 05-26-2014, 01:32 AM
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Re: Parivartana Yoga confusion!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Astroenthusiast View Post
Hello everyone,


I have a question about parivartan yoga. In this yoga, two planets forming parivartan yoga are deemed to be in other's house, right? Now is this assumption applicable only when considering or determining the effect of the houses forming this yoga vis-a-vis eachother or for the whole chart?

I am not quite sure if i have worded the question right. So I am pasting the chart in which I encountered this problem. This chart belongs to a very famous religious leader. Here Ke and Sa in the 2nd house and Ve and Ra in 8th house form tapasvi yoga. But Ve in Pisces in 8th house is also forming parivartana yoga with Jupiter in Taurus in 10th house. So according to rules of parivartana yoga, Ve should be considered in 10th house and Jupiter in 8th house but if it happens there won't be any tapasvi yoga, which according to his life facts as documented, should be there. I guess I make more sense now than I did in the earlier para. Any help is appreciated!



Thanks


P.S. Planet with Venus is Rahu

Dear AE,

Mutual reception aka parivartan in jyotish is a rather interesting situation! Both planets are deemed to be as if they are in one another's house and for their lifetimes (actually lifetime of the nativity?). So let us say, by the tryst of destiny, the king of a country were to relocate to the palace of another king of a different nation, an enemy nation, and vice versa, would they destroy their current home and shelter?

But, just because they have been relocated so, would their immediate interests to promote the welfare of the nation they are now located in become important? ;-) Or just making sure that the HOUSE they are living in remains well-kept and comfortable, now that they are forced to live in, for the rest of their lifetime (Nativity's, that is...!)

Very good question, by the way or so it seemed to me, though I am not sure if I really got the gist of what you were asking, or even if, my response resolves your doubt or confusion or improves/helps your understanding! ;-)

So, if sun is in aquarius and saturn is in leo, would their outlook change entirely for the entire chart or just wherever leo and aquarius happen to be in that chart? I already see the potential flaw with the example I thought about for they are scoping one another consistently..., but perhaps jupiter in virgo and mercury in dhanu is a better example? Or the more volatile mutual reception between the polar opposites: mars in libra and venus in scorpio...?

I failed to launch and see the bmp that you posted and shared :-( For some reason, I've been having problem always in accessing the attached graphics on this forum, hence a simple textual sharing (birthdata, source of birthdata and PLEASE do not confuse my software by sharing only the coordinates and not the name of the birthplace and Province, Country, etc because ATLASES are not perfect or UNIFORM in different software! Reality?

Love and Light,

Rohiniranjan
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Unread 05-26-2014, 03:25 PM
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Re: Parivartana Yoga confusion!

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Very good question, by the way or so it seemed to me, though I am not sure if I really got the gist of what you were asking, or even if, my response resolves your doubt or confusion or improves/helps your understanding! ;-)

So, if sun is in aquarius and saturn is in leo, would their outlook change entirely for the entire chart or just wherever leo and aquarius happen to be in that chart?
You got it alright! The analogy that you gave, gives me an impression that parivartana yoga effects only the houses in which it is taking place and rest of the chart is not affected very much by it. Am I right?

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I failed to launch and see the bmp that you posted and shared :-( For some reason, I've been having problem always in accessing the attached graphics on this forum, hence a simple textual sharing (birthdata, source of birthdata and PLEASE do not confuse my software by sharing only the coordinates and not the name of the birthplace and Province, Country, etc because ATLASES are not perfect or UNIFORM in different software! Reality?
I am afraid I don't have the name of his birth place, so i'll have to give the longitudes instead. Here are his particulars:

DOB: 20 May 1894
TOB: 13:22 (accurate)
POB: 79E32 11N57, India


Thanks
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Unread 05-26-2014, 05:20 PM
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Re: Parivartana Yoga confusion!

Astroenthusiast,

I would not treat it as actual relocation of jupiter and venus, but more like additional strength gained by venus and jupiter in the houses they are in! Horoscope shows good longevity, as well as power and prominence. So, the individual was probably not a reclusive sanyasi but possibly a leader of the institution he was associated with. Jupiter, sun and mercury aspecting the debilitated moon with cancellation and disposited by strong venus in the eighth aspected by retrograde saturn and the nodal axis do portray a detatchment from worldliness. I am seeing, though, that there was much opulence surrounding him and organization, although he was in it but separate (detached) from such maya. Jupiter in tenth and strengthened by exchange with a strong venus gives organizational ability and such individuals whether sanyasi or not have the ability to build up cohesiveness in the people in the organization they head. Saturn is retrograde and atmakaraka and hence has a say in his becoming a sanyasi. The shift of budha-aditya in the 9th house portrays a role as educator-mentor as part of his mission.
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Unread 05-26-2014, 07:07 PM
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Re: Parivartana Yoga confusion!

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Astroenthusiast,

I would not treat it as actual relocation of jupiter and venus, but more like additional strength gained by venus and jupiter in the houses they are in! Horoscope shows good longevity, as well as power and prominence. So, the individual was probably not a reclusive sanyasi but possibly a leader of the institution he was associated with. Jupiter, sun and mercury aspecting the debilitated moon with cancellation and disposited by strong venus in the eighth aspected by retrograde saturn and the nodal axis do portray a detatchment from worldliness. I am seeing, though, that there was much opulence surrounding him and organization, although he was in it but separate (detached) from such maya. Jupiter in tenth and strengthened by exchange with a strong venus gives organizational ability and such individuals whether sanyasi or not have the ability to build up cohesiveness in the people in the organization they head. Saturn is retrograde and atmakaraka and hence has a say in his becoming a sanyasi. The shift of budha-aditya in the 9th house portrays a role as educator-mentor as part of his mission.

You are right in your assessment of this nativity. But I still didnot understand what you meant by venus and jupiter gaining strength in there own houses. Did you give it as definition of parivartana yoga or is it nativity specific. And by gaining strength, does one mean that malefic becomes more malefic and benefic more benefic or that they get additional support to do things that are on their agenda in a particular chart?

Aren't sun and mercury in planetary war? Can planets engaged in war give a yoga? Oh dear, till now I thought a planet defeated in planetary war cannot give any results (even as i am writing this, i realize how foolish my beliefs were) and I see sun-mercury conjunction in 10th house, how can it shift? I would ask more question if i had any idea how you reached these conclusions!
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Unread 05-26-2014, 10:04 PM
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Re: Parivartana Yoga confusion!

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Originally Posted by Astroenthusiast View Post
You are right in your assessment of this nativity. But I still didnot understand what you meant by venus and jupiter gaining strength in there own houses. Did you give it as definition of parivartana yoga or is it nativity specific. And by gaining strength, does one mean that malefic becomes more malefic and benefic more benefic or that they get additional support to do things that are on their agenda in a particular chart?

Aren't sun and mercury in planetary war? Can planets engaged in war give a yoga? Oh dear, till now I thought a planet defeated in planetary war cannot give any results (even as i am writing this, i realize how foolish my beliefs were) and I see sun-mercury conjunction in 10th house, how can it shift? I would ask more question if i had any idea how you reached these conclusions!
AE,

Trust me, no one can learn astrology using internet messages :-) Anyways, that would be the lazy way and you may not end up integrating the material in a cohesive manner :-(

Why do you think that there is a planetary war?

As to the original problem you were having, there is no double exchange, so Jupiter stays where it originally is (only stronger) and venus in pisces where it is already exalted.

I am not sure which part of conclusions were posing a problem

Regards,

Rohiniranjan
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Unread 05-27-2014, 10:54 AM
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Re: Parivartana Yoga confusion!

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Originally Posted by Crystalpages View Post

Why do you think that there is a planetary war?
Pictorial representation of anger in chinese language is very similar to pyre! Just thought you should know!
As for the question, aren't sun and mercury within 1degree to eachother?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Crystalpages View Post
As to the original problem you were having, there is no double exchange, so Jupiter stays where it originally is (only stronger) and venus in pisces where it is already exalted.
The problem still stands. You say there is no DOUBLE exchange, i am having difficulty understanding if there is even single one!


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I am not sure which part of conclusions were posing a problem
No part posed any problem. I meant to say that you were right in your predictions but I did not understand how how reached those conclusions, since I don't know even a little astrology, so I thought I shouldn't ask question knowing there is no foundation to erect a building on!Regards,

Rohiniranjan[/QUOTE]
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Unread 05-27-2014, 11:42 AM
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Re: Parivartana Yoga confusion!

The red devil was a symbolism for 'planetary war' and not an emoticon for my personal feelings :-) <== this one is! ;-)

If Jupiter is in Taurus and venus is in pisces, why do you say that there is no exchange...?

Planetary war: Please consult your teacher or if lacking one, please refer to BPHS, Chapter 29, Sloka 20 will clarify your PW doubt! BTW, this is from the Sharma edition and he possibly clarifies the matter rather than other more literal translators of other versions. "Tara-graha" presumably distinguishes between lights and planets in the cabinet.

PEACE (not WAR we humans seek...!),

Rohiniranjan
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Unread 05-27-2014, 05:09 PM
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Re: Parivartana Yoga confusion!

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The red devil was a symbolism for 'planetary war' and not an emoticon for my personal feelings :-) <== this one is! ;-)

Okay.

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Originally Posted by Crystalpages View Post
If Jupiter is in Taurus and venus is in pisces, why do you say that there is no exchange...?
Because if there was an exchange, there wouldn't be tapasvi yoga (because as far as I know (and I don't know much) Venus, Saturn, Rahu and Ketu form it). Ohhh...correct me if I am wrong.....in parivartana yoga, there is no exchange of houses per se, only venus behaves like jupiter (as in this case) and vice-a-versa, right? And if we dig a little deeper, we'll still find Venus in there, right? So now I'll modify my question and ask whether venus behaves like jupiter for all of the chart or only with respect to 10th house where jupiter is placed. I think now I may have asked a relevant question.

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Planetary war: Please consult your teacher or if lacking one, please refer to BPHS, Chapter 29, Sloka 20 will clarify your PW doubt! BTW, this is from the Sharma edition and he possibly clarifies the matter rather than other more literal translators of other versions. "Tara-graha" presumably distinguishes between lights and planets in the cabinet.

PEACE (not WAR we humans seek...!),
At the institute I am studying, I am at a very basic level. Every time I ask them a question (not relating to current course), either they throw me for loop or tell me I am getting ahead of myself. And they have told us not to read BPHS before another 6 months has passed. I read about planetary war in a book by G.S. Aggarwal and they swear its a very good book. All it says is that planets within 1 degree to eachother are engaged in planetary war. Planet with fewer degrees wins the war (and I've heard that planet with higher degree wins the war).
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Unread 05-27-2014, 09:24 PM
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Re: Parivartana Yoga confusion!

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Originally Posted by Astroenthusiast View Post
Okay.



Because if there was an exchange, there wouldn't be tapasvi yoga (because as far as I know (and I don't know much) Venus, Saturn, Rahu and Ketu form it). Ohhh...correct me if I am wrong.....in parivartana yoga, there is no exchange of houses per se, only venus behaves like jupiter (as in this case) and vice-a-versa, right? And if we dig a little deeper, we'll still find Venus in there, right? So now I'll modify my question and ask whether venus behaves like jupiter for all of the chart or only with respect to 10th house where jupiter is placed. I think now I may have asked a relevant question.



At the institute I am studying, I am at a very basic level. Every time I ask them a question (not relating to current course), either they throw me for loop or tell me I am getting ahead of myself. And they have told us not to read BPHS before another 6 months has passed. I read about planetary war in a book by G.S. Aggarwal and they swear its a very good book. All it says is that planets within 1 degree to eachother are engaged in planetary war. Planet with fewer degrees wins the war (and I've heard that planet with higher degree wins the war).
My dear Astroenthusiast,

I kind of recall now that you had voiced this situation you are in, earlier too tand hat your teachers basically want you to proceed as per the curriculum of your institute and not jump ahead, prematurely. And, my request and recommendation then to you was to follow their advice and since BPHS is in the next grade or class or level for you, perhaps you should ignore my advice about looking up BPHS ahead of where your teachers feel (and perhaps rightly so?) you are currently at! Listen, I am not mocking you or anything, but since you are now readily tapped into this internet NON-INSTITUTE, and asking your questions here from others and getting more confused -- you will just continue to increase your agony further :-( So as they say, STAY WITH YOUR CURRICULUM and PROGRAM and follow your teacher's advice and instructions!!

BTW, is this parivartana thing part of where you are at or are you peeking in here and there and trying to ponder about it and figure things out ahead of your class? Again, if this has not been covered by the institute yet, then my advice and recommendation would be just as before and as above! So, please let it rest for now, but do not forget about the example and query! Then when your teacher covers that topic, bring up this chart in your class and ask them for clarification. But chances are, the question will have dissolved into comprehension (without asking) by then! At that time, we shall all celebrate your growth and success and I shall send you a big box of laddus which is the favourite of our Patron God of Jyotish: Siddhidata Ganesh ji! ;-)

Love and Light and Blessings!

Rohiniranjan
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Last edited by Crystalpages; 05-27-2014 at 09:32 PM. Reason: minor editing for syntax and clarity etc.
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Unread 05-28-2014, 05:46 AM
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Re: Parivartana Yoga confusion!

Aye..aye..Cap'n!!!
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Unread 05-28-2014, 06:03 AM
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Re: Parivartana Yoga confusion!

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Originally Posted by Astroenthusiast View Post
Pictorial representation of anger in chinese language is very similar to pyre! Just thought you should know!
As for the question, aren't sun and mercury within 1degree to eachother?



The problem still stands. You say there is no DOUBLE exchange, i am having difficulty understanding if there is even single one!




No part posed any problem. I meant to say that you were right in your predictions but I did not understand how how reached those conclusions, since I don't know even a little astrology, so I thought I shouldn't ask question knowing there is no foundation to erect a building on!Regards,

Rohiniranjan
[/QUOTE]


"As for the question, aren't sun and mercury within 1degree to each other?"

Mercury is 'combust' as it is close to Sun.
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Unread 05-28-2014, 06:41 AM
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Re: Parivartana Yoga confusion!

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You got it alright! The analogy that you gave, gives me an impression that parivartana yoga effects only the houses in which it is taking place and rest of the chart is not affected very much by it. Am I right?



I am afraid I don't have the name of his birth place, so i'll have to give the longitudes instead. Here are his particulars:

DOB: 20 May 1894
TOB: 13:22 (accurate)
POB: 79E32 11N57, India


Thanks
The latitude and longitude of Poyyapakkam Road, Poyyapakkam, Tamil Nadu 605602, India is: 11 57' N / 79 31' E

Place of birth:Viluppuram, Tamilnadu
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Unread 05-28-2014, 06:45 AM
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Re: Parivartana Yoga confusion!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chandra...ndra_Saraswati
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Unread 05-28-2014, 06:59 AM
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Re: Parivartana Yoga confusion!

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Originally Posted by Astroenthusiast View Post
Hello everyone,


I have a question about parivartan yoga. In this yoga, two planets forming parivartan yoga are deemed to be in other's house, right? Now is this assumption applicable only when considering or determining the effect of the houses forming this yoga vis-a-vis eachother or for the whole chart?

I am not quite sure if i have worded the question right. So I am pasting the chart in which I encountered this problem. This chart belongs to a very famous religious leader. Here Ke and Sa in the 2nd house and Ve and Ra in 8th house form tapasvi yoga. But Ve in Pisces in 8th house is also forming parivartana yoga with Jupiter in Taurus in 10th house. So according to rules of parivartana yoga, Ve should be considered in 10th house and Jupiter in 8th house but if it happens there won't be any tapasvi yoga, which according to his life facts as documented, should be there. I guess I make more sense now than I did in the earlier para. Any help is appreciated!



Thanks


P.S. Planet with Venus is Rahu
tapasvi yoga

http://www.astrologytree.net/2010/01...aswi-yoga.html
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Unread 05-28-2014, 08:44 AM
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Re: Parivartana Yoga confusion!

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My big secret is out! Haha...I held his name back because I didn't want to flout forum's rules (not that I have read them, I just was being over cautious,as always)....
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Unread 05-28-2014, 09:05 AM
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Re: Parivartana Yoga confusion!

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Now I understand it. And you may have guessed that I am also taking PVR Narsimha Rao's audio lessons. He discusses it in lesson 7 or 8. This is the reason I can't ask these questions where I am studying. Whenever I ask a question, my fellow students think that I have grown two heads and they have objected, rather kindly, more than once. And my teachers either don't answer or confuse me even more...haha.

Last edited by Astroenthusiast; 05-28-2014 at 09:13 AM.
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Unread 05-28-2014, 07:57 PM
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Re: Parivartana Yoga confusion!

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Aye..aye..Cap'n!!!
I had 'sensed' very early on that you were pulling our leg, ;-) hence I wanted you to work harder by yourself! ;-) While listening to your teachers and being respectful to their instructions! Whether institutes or schools, one must do homework too and self-study! Of course, internet and google searches and internet tutorials can help too now a days, but can lead to confusion too! I see that everyday :-(

Regards and best wishes,

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Unread 05-28-2014, 08:04 PM
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Re: Parivartana Yoga confusion!

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Now I understand it. And you may have guessed that I am also taking PVR Narsimha Rao's audio lessons. He discusses it in lesson 7 or 8. This is the reason I can't ask these questions where I am studying. Whenever I ask a question, my fellow students think that I have grown two heads and they have objected, rather kindly, more than once. And my teachers either don't answer or confuse me even more...haha.
But in that case, why did you not ask Narasimha directly? Instead of here and there...? :-)

He is a rather unique person and very serious and sincere about astrology and research. His prolific contributions to modern jyotish are phenomenal and in my personal opinion, above many and most on or away from internet ;-)

Very respected and admirable human being and very helpful to others, particularly serious and sincere students of jyotish!

Regards,

Rohiniranjan
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Unread 05-29-2014, 08:27 AM
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Re: Parivartana Yoga confusion!

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I had 'sensed' very early on that you were pulling our leg, ;-) hence I wanted you to work harder by yourself! ;-) While listening to your teachers and being respectful to their instructions! Whether institutes or schools, one must do homework too and self-study! Of course, internet and google searches and internet tutorials can help too now a days, but can lead to confusion too! I see that everyday :-(

Regards and best wishes,

Rohiniranjan
You were writing in red. Red being the colour of Mars, I shy away from eliciting such responses in people.

With my last response to you, I was trying to withdraw myself from the discussion because I felt you were trying to tell me something which I clearly wasn't understanding, so your frustration was understandable as indicated by your use of colour of mars.

And I am not pulling anyone's leg..honest to God. Why would you think so? You may not have met me, but I am the most innocent person around ...not that I am in habit of listing my qualities very often, I am just communicating. Haha...jokes apart...I don't mind working hard, occasionally. Even your pointing me towards direction to answers is help enough.
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Unread 05-29-2014, 08:29 AM
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Re: Parivartana Yoga confusion!

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But in that case, why did you not ask Narasimha directly? Instead of here and there...? :-)
You'd think he would have time to babysit a novice?
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Unread 05-29-2014, 01:32 PM
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Re: Parivartana Yoga confusion!

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You'd think he would have time to babysit a novice?
The baby, if truly intent, serious, sincere and respectful might be pleasantly surprised...! Trust my instincts about this one! ;-)

Love and light,

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Unread 05-29-2014, 01:38 PM
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Re: Parivartana Yoga confusion!

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You were writing in red. Red being the colour of Mars, I shy away from eliciting such responses in people.

With my last response to you, I was trying to withdraw myself from the discussion because I felt you were trying to tell me something which I clearly wasn't understanding, so your frustration was understandable as indicated by your use of colour of mars.

And I am not pulling anyone's leg..honest to God. Why would you think so? You may not have met me, but I am the most innocent person around ...not that I am in habit of listing my qualities very often, I am just communicating. Haha...jokes apart...I don't mind working hard, occasionally. Even your pointing me towards direction to answers is help enough.
<LOL>. The message board has blue background hence blue and green (colour of Saturn/venus and mercury) are what I like to use, but red allows a better contrast! You should not take the choice of colour too personally, literally or astro-chromatically! By the way, the brighter red I was using was the colour of SUN and not mars, which is darker red (like venous blood, sun is arterial!)

And, why "Occasionally*? Unless astrology is a mere passing interest...? ;-)

Regards
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Last edited by Crystalpages; 05-29-2014 at 01:40 PM.
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Unread 05-29-2014, 05:22 PM
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Re: Parivartana Yoga confusion!

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Originally Posted by Crystalpages View Post
The baby, if truly intent, serious, sincere and respectful might be pleasantly surprised...! Trust my instincts about this one! ;-)

Love and light,

Rohiniranjan
Hmmm..I never thought this possible.
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  #25  
Unread 05-29-2014, 05:31 PM
Astroenthusiast Astroenthusiast is offline
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Re: Parivartana Yoga confusion!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Crystalpages View Post
You should not take the choice of colour too personally, literally or astro-chromatically! )
I am a very serious person. I can't help it but take things seriously...No can do...Uhhhh....Nope...Sorry..


Quote:
Originally Posted by Crystalpages View Post
And, why "Occasionally*? Unless astrology is a mere passing interest...? ;-)
What is the use of making a funny remark, when it isn't communicated to the listener? I will strive to make jokes, that actually appear as jokes.
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