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  #26  
Unread 05-30-2015, 06:11 AM
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Re: Is she having a clandestine affair with her male friend?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dirius View Post
I agree completly with this.

I personally don't think it is a "3rd party" question. If we take this as a 3rd party question, then pretty much any horary is considered to be about 3rd parties.

It is not because the chart tramples on other people's life. By that logic, answering if someone "likes you" is already messing in that persons life....and we answer that all the time. The same goes with job offers, and such.

Actually...pretty much any horary chart is about meddling in other people's business. Its about knowing what it is unkown

The reason why most would be reluctant to give a judgement on a chart like this is because of how the querent could react towards the answer, if it is one that displeases him. There are obviously cases of violence and such. After all, we are nothing more than internet accounts here, no one really knows how each other really is.

Not to mention, that we could get it wrong, tell the querent she is not cheating while she is, or tell him she is cheating while she is not.

It is not like answering about a job offer, in which the person will find out if he/she gets the job anyways.

What I do find interesting is that the querent said:"recently I've attracted a person into my life", and it seems you are already discussing moving in together, despite the fact that you suspect cheating on her part---- that seems weird.
Very well said Dirius. In the same fashion even in questions such as 'Does X love me and will we be together?' we would look at that chart and see no aspect, no reception, nothing and so most of us will give an unemotional No without knowing who the querent is or in what state of mind he/she is. What if the querent takes our responses to heart and goes home and shoots themselves...and we would never know about this. Of course its an unlikely scenario, but situation similar to this do happen - who would have expected a London nurse to take her own life due to an innocent prank? I mean no one knew her state of mind.... in the same way we do not know the state of mind of most querents on this forum and how our answers may or may not affect them. I do believe we can figure out things based on combustions or negative placements of the querent's significator in the chart and perhaps tread carefully...

anyways, thanks for the discussion

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  #27  
Unread 05-30-2015, 06:23 AM
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Re: Is she having a clandestine affair with her male friend?

Horary astrology domain seems to me quite practical, not really psychological. Here Marvel asks us a question in horary (why not) but the field seems to me psychological. Probably a reading of his own natal chart will be a better approach.

The lack of confidence in one's partner and a difficulty to communicate about feelings, refer very often to the lack of confidence in oneself. Sometimes suspicion and jealousy are justified, but this could also undermine a healthy relationship, without real problem. Or the problem is the one of personal commitment.
I think we are here in emotional domain, not an easy domain!
Modern astrology has an appropriate language for this type of question. It is just my opinion.
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  #28  
Unread 05-30-2015, 10:21 AM
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Re: Is she having a clandestine affair with her male friend?

Quote:
Originally Posted by cspencer View Post

There is a very specific delineation method for the question, and you didn't do it.

As was pointed out, this delineation method arose at a time when there were dowries,
and a woman was worth more if she was a virgin,
so naturally, there's a need to know.


Since then, we have a new operating Grand Conjunction Chart, and we've had several shifts in the Great Mutation
and things are not the same.
We no longer treat women as property
.
In fact, women even have the right to vote.


When we look at the Grand Conjunction 1702, we see Moon in partile conjunction with the Saturn/Jupiter partile conjunction,
and then all three assembled with Venus, in Aries in the 7th Place,
showing that the plight of women will change and women will be elevated to positions of trust and authority and leadership
over the course of the next several centuries (as we direct the chart).
makes sense that a delineation method appropriate at a time when women had dowries
requires questioning regarding its appropriateness today
Quote:
Originally Posted by cspencer View Post

Anyway, your job as astrologer is to advise your client on the best course of action.

Answering the horary is not the best course of action
.
Quite so!
An elephant in the room
is being studiously not noticed


Quote:
Originally Posted by cspencer View Post

This querent needs serious counseling
for the serious problem they have,
which obviously revolves around trust issues.

The querent however
not unexpectedly
feels justified in their quest to consult anonymous amateur astrologers
posting on a public free online forum
that takes no responsibility for any delineations offered
in order to 'gain empowerment' deceptively
because they do not plan to share the horary delineation with their potential future partner
and that is deceptive

it is ironic however that
simultaneously the querent complains loudly
they suspect that their potential future partner is deceptive





Quote:
Originally Posted by cspencer View Post

I would suggest there's probably an issue in the natal chart,
and I'd be looking for an aspect involving a retrograde Star that creates a self-fulling prophecy.

What is needed here, is a synastry.

If there is no synastry, then there will be no relationship regardless of the outcome of the horary question.

Right?

Another elephant in the room
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  #29  
Unread 05-30-2015, 10:34 AM
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Re: Is she having a clandestine affair with her male friend?

Quote:
Originally Posted by rafaella View Post

Very well said Dirius. In the same fashion even in questions such as 'Does X love me and will we be together?'
we would look at that chart and see no aspect, no reception, nothing
and so most of us
will give an unemotional No without knowing who the querent is or in what state of mind he/she is.
What if the querent takes our responses to heart and goes home and shoots themselves...
and we would never know about this. Of course its an unlikely scenario
,
Exactly.
Alternatively, if the querent while in a jealous rage
based on being informed/misinformed that an horary "indicates potential cheating"
attacks an innocent girlfriend,
causing damage to her, perhaps killing her
then that scenario - however "unlikely"
needs to be kept in mind
when responding to horary questions of the nature of the one currently under discussion

Quote:
Originally Posted by rafaella View Post

...but situation similar to this do happen - who would have expected a London nurse to take her own life
due to an innocent prank?
I mean no one knew her state of mind....
That's a particularly interesting reminder
of a mystery that is likely not to get solved any time soon
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...ims-birth.html
Quote:
Originally Posted by rafaella View Post

....in the same way we do not know the state of mind of most querents on this forum
and how our answers may or may not affect them.
I do believe we can figure out things based on combustions or negative placements of the querent's significator in the chart
and perhaps tread carefully...

anyways, thanks for the discussion
good idea to consider the consequences of swift delineations
produced without much consideration
given that these delineations are unpaid
the querent rarely posts an update
and it's simply "a learning experienc practice" for the amateur astrologer
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  #30  
Unread 05-30-2015, 10:39 AM
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Re: Is she having a clandestine affair with her male friend?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dirius View Post

...What I do find interesting is that the querent said:
"recently I've attracted a person into my life",
and it seems you are already discussing moving in together,
despite the fact that you suspect cheating on her part----
that seems weird.

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  #31  
Unread 05-31-2015, 05:32 AM
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Re: Is she having a clandestine affair with her male friend?

Well I am quite reasonable and anyone who takes astrology serious knows the karmic consequences of such reactions.

No worries mates I am not one to fall into a jealous rage and go postal. I have Venus in Virgo. I am analyzing my circumstances to come up with a conclusive thought.

I am quite pleased with how my question created the birth of ethically challenging remarks. You all state valid points.

I am invested into refining myself so any feedback is not a form of offense or a means for me to retaliate in a negative frenzy.
My natal expression : Mercury/Mars (1st)/Venus/Moon (2nd) in Virgo - Saturn(6)/Uranus(5)/Neptune(6) in Capricorn - Jupiter in 11th Cancer - Sun and ASC in Leo - MC in Aries (9) - Pluto in Scorpio (4)

Quite practical and calculating - This was a way for me to learn horary while using a worthy example that was worth inquiring.

Thank you all for your contribution and I have learned much.

@JupiterASC - Stern but valid points -However, give the opposing reality equivalent exposure. I do not have to express my revelation in such a negative manner. I could avoid an accident in-fact

Your responses are quite harsh unnecessarily, Im quite the jovial spirit but I agree with directly communicating this concern with my partner rather than asking a group of "novice" astrologers. I love gathering the data and share value where I can.

Thank you nonetheless.
@Tsmall - Forgive me for adding the "s".
I agree with the humanitarian outlook on not violating others privacy. However, if someone is going to enter the domain of your world it should not be a problem to investigate and avoid an accident.

Rather than wearing a helmet alone - I would like to know what the usage and security of the path I walk on. Isnt this one of the main reasons we study astrology?
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  #32  
Unread 05-31-2015, 12:30 PM
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Re: Is she having a clandestine affair with her male friend?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Marvel View Post

Well I am quite reasonable and anyone who takes astrology serious knows the karmic consequences of such reactions.

No worries mates I am not one to fall into a jealous rage and go postal. I have Venus in Virgo. I am analyzing my circumstances to come up with a conclusive thought.

I am quite pleased with how my question created the birth of ethically challenging remarks. You all state valid points.

I am invested into refining myself so any feedback is not a form of offense or a means for me to retaliate in a negative frenzy.
My natal expression : Mercury/Mars (1st)/Venus/Moon (2nd) in Virgo - Saturn(6)/Uranus(5)/Neptune(6) in Capricorn - Jupiter in 11th Cancer - Sun and ASC in Leo - MC in Aries (9) - Pluto in Scorpio (4)

Quite practical and calculating - This was a way for me to learn horary while using a worthy example that was worth inquiring.

Thank you all for your contribution and I have learned much.

@JupiterASC - Stern but valid points -However, give the opposing reality equivalent exposure. I do not have to express my revelation in such a negative manner. I could avoid an accident in-fact

Your responses are quite harsh unnecessarily, Im quite the jovial spirit but I agree with directly communicating this concern with my partner rather than asking a group of "novice" astrologers. I love gathering the data and share value where I can.

Thank you nonetheless.
@Tsmall - Forgive me for adding the "s".
I agree with the humanitarian outlook on not violating others privacy.
However, if someone is going to enter the domain of your world
it should not be a problem to investigate and avoid an accident
.


Rather than wearing a helmet alone - I would like to know what the usage and security of the path I walk on.
Isnt this one of the main reasons we study astrology?
we are an astrological learning forum providing free advice
responses are frequently brief - merely a sentence in some cases! or a few words!
and so any advice offered is not comparable with a professional astrological horary reading
there is no guarantee that the querent is getting good advice


because

the advice is from learners who are practicing
and is free

as for "being harsh"
it is harsh of the querent to pass judgement on a prospective girlfriend
due to suspicions that she is deceptive
when the querent is posting private information without the girlfriend's knowledge or consent
the girlfriend has not been provided with an opportunity to present their perspective
that's unfair


better to discuss the matter with the girlfriend
then openly inform the girlfriend that an online horary learning forum
is picking over details of whether or not she is likely to move in or not
whether or not she is in an existing deceptive relationship or not
and so on


now you just told us that you are "Quite practical and calculating"

and that

" - This was a way for me to learn horary while using a worthy example that was worth inquiring."

and so you admit your motivation in deceiving your girlfriend
(by not informing her of your posting intimate details concerning her supposed 'deception'
on an online forum whose content is easily accessed by a simple online search)
was simply to get some free advice in order to learn horary

therefore you are probably interested to learn that
there's a comprehensive FREE HORARY LEARNING COURSE
at http://www.skyscript.co.uk/dignities.html
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  #33  
Unread 05-31-2015, 02:20 PM
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Re: Is she having a clandestine affair with her male friend?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Marvel View Post
Quite practical and calculating - This was a way for me to learn horary while using a worthy example that was worth inquiring.
So, where's your synastry chart?

If you're as practical and calculating as you claim, then you should be hot and heavy for synastry, since if there's no synastry, there's no relationship.


If you're as practical and calculating as you say, then you should understand that on a scale of 1 to 10 with 10 being the most difficult, the question you posed is a 10.

As a teaching example, it is very poor.

The issue with horary is learning the correct significators and then understanding aspects and then learning reception.

Some things you just don't teach unless you can control who has access to the material.

How many stopped to check to see if the chart is radical?

And then there's retrograde Saturn in the 7th Place.

Sure, you could argue that Sagittarius is the 8th Sign, but that belies the fact that retrograde Saturn is conjunct the descendant.

So this is a question astrologers shouldn't even attempt to answer, since they'll pass bad judgment lacking facts or because the querent was deceptive (which is what Saturn in the 7th signifies).

It would be irresponsible of me to teach that chart, because that would be like giving a time-bomb to children, who would then ruin people's lives with bad judgments, because they don't really know what they're doing.

So, why don't you post your synastry chart, unless you're afraid.
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  #34  
Unread 05-31-2015, 03:37 PM
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Re: Is she having a clandestine affair with her male friend?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Marvel View Post
Quite practical and calculating - This was a way for me to learn horary while using a worthy example that was worth inquiring.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Marvel View Post
I agree with the humanitarian outlook on not violating others privacy. However, if someone is going to enter the domain of your world it should not be a problem to investigate and avoid an accident.
Just because a thing can be done doesn't make it the right thing to do. The mere presence of someone in my life does not, for example, give me the right to go through their phone, or read their diary or emails without telling them.

There is also a qualitative difference in the qustion you have proposed in that you want to know via horary not only if there is something more to your girlfriend's current relationship with her best friend, but also if there was ever something more in the past. So this isn't a clear cut "is she cheating on me" question.

You have said that you wish to know the answer before you speak to her, so you can know if she is being honest. But, can you trust the judgment of the astrologers and students you find here? Has anything been said to allay your suspiscions? Especially in light of this, which makes it appear that nothing less than a "yes" will satisfy you

Quote:
Originally Posted by Marvel View Post
I've already inquired and gotten a "No" however, I find myself still not at ease b/c of the vibes Im getting from her friend during their company together.
So this isn't even the 1st time you've asked the question? And when you asked before, got a negative, you continued to be suspiscious?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Marvel View Post
Rather than wearing a helmet alone - I would like to know what the usage and security of the path I walk on. Isnt this one of the main reasons we study astrology?
Sure, and you could have chosen any number of different questions to discover this. It's not like "will this relationship work out?" isn't just about the number one horary question ever proposed. Instead you have indicated

Quote:
Originally Posted by Marvel View Post
Truth is I want to know if it happened in at all (past or present)
I said, back at the beginning of this thread, that I would never answer this question for a querent. If someone came to me and said "I have this weird feeling that my boyfriend may have slept with this girl in the past, can you look and see?" my first question would be, well, did you ask him? The next would be what is the real issue here?

Quote:
Originally Posted by cspencer View Post
How many stopped to check to see if the chart is radical?
It is.

Without actually answering the question "has she ever slept with this man" is there any insight to be gleaned from the chart as to what underlying issue is driving the querent to ask the question in the first place? Yes, though it has already been identified by those responding to this thread.

Masha'Allah tells us that if we wish to understand the intention of the question we should look to the ruler of the ASC and to the planet that receives the disposition of the ruler--that is, the planet to which the ASC ruler applies. In this case we have Venus in Cancer (who, btw, is the hour ruler) cadent in the 3rd, in aversion to the significator of the 7th, and applying to no one. Her last aspect was a sextile from the Moon who receives her, from Virgo, her place of fall. That seems pretty uncomfortable right there, and Venus can only commit that disposition back to the ASC.

He also tells us to look at the sign Lot of Fortune falls in, because the intention of the question will have something to do with the signification of the house that sign represents. Here, LoF is in Aquarius, in the 10th sign, fairly close to the MC. The 10th is career, status and reputation. Since we know our querent is considering taking an important step with his girlfriend, we can judge that it is his status that concerns him.

Another method is to look at the almuten of the ASC (that is, the planet with the most dignigty in that degree) and then look to the planet ruling the term in which the almuten falls. Here we have Venus again, in the confines of Jupiter who is in Leo in the 4th house. Jupiter rules the 11th of trust as well as the 8th of fear and is in the house of home.

Lastly we can look at the 12th part of the ASC, which falls in the 16th degree of Pisces, bringing us back to Jupiter. All of which tells us that our querent is having trust issues concerning his girlfriend because he is considering his status and home, which we got from the initial inquiry in the first place.

A good astrologer doesn't simply answer the question the querent is asking; rather, like a good advisor, looks for a way to help people deal with the issues that send them to an astrologer in the first place.

Moon is void for just about 2-3 degrees, when it moves into orb of a sextile with retrograde Saturn in the 7th. Venus' next applying aspect is also to Saturn, and Saturn retro in the 7th could indicate we've been down this road in relationships before. A really cool teacher once told me that an aspect with a retrograde planet isn't an aspect, it's a collision, and it forces or compels someone to do something. In this case Moon has to change signs to complete the aspect, and when she does she will be received by Saturn both by exaltation and term. Time to face relationship fears?

Oh, and for those that were questioning the combustion of Mars/Mercury? We want to look to the house the Sun rules to see the nature of the combustion.

Though with both malefics in the angles, Moon void, Venus cadent and void, this whole exercise looks pretty moot.
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  #35  
Unread 06-08-2015, 05:20 PM
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Re: Is she having a clandestine affair with her male friend?

Quote:
Originally Posted by tsmall View Post
It is.
Yes.

Hour ruler agreement is part of the horary process for those who didn't know (which is apparently quite a few).

Quote:
Originally Posted by tsmall View Post
Masha'Allah tells us that if we wish to understand the intention of the question we should look to the ruler of the ASC and to the planet that receives the disposition of the ruler--that is, the planet to which the ASC ruler applies. In this case we have Venus in Cancer (who, btw, is the hour ruler) cadent in the 3rd, in aversion to the significator of the 7th, and applying to no one. Her last aspect was a sextile from the Moon who receives her, from Virgo, her place of fall. That seems pretty uncomfortable right there, and Venus can only commit that disposition back to the ASC.

He also tells us to look at the sign Lot of Fortune falls in, because the intention of the question will have something to do with the signification of the house that sign represents. Here, LoF is in Aquarius, in the 10th sign, fairly close to the MC. The 10th is career, status and reputation. Since we know our querent is considering taking an important step with his girlfriend, we can judge that it is his status that concerns him.

Another method is to look at the almuten of the ASC (that is, the planet with the most dignigty in that degree) and then look to the planet ruling the term in which the almuten falls. Here we have Venus again, in the confines of Jupiter who is in Leo in the 4th house. Jupiter rules the 11th of trust as well as the 8th of fear and is in the house of home.

Lastly we can look at the 12th part of the ASC, which falls in the 16th degree of Pisces, bringing us back to Jupiter. All of which tells us that our querent is having trust issues concerning his girlfriend because he is considering his status and home, which we got from the initial inquiry in the first place.

A good astrologer doesn't simply answer the question the querent is asking; rather, like a good advisor, looks for a way to help people deal with the issues that send them to an astrologer in the first place.

Moon is void for just about 2-3 degrees, when it moves into orb of a sextile with retrograde Saturn in the 7th. Venus' next applying aspect is also to Saturn, and Saturn retro in the 7th could indicate we've been down this road in relationships before. A really cool teacher once told me that an aspect with a retrograde planet isn't an aspect, it's a collision, and it forces or compels someone to do something. In this case Moon has to change signs to complete the aspect, and when she does she will be received by Saturn both by exaltation and term. Time to face relationship fears?

Oh, and for those that were questioning the combustion of Mars/Mercury? We want to look to the house the Sun rules to see the nature of the combustion.

Though with both malefics in the angles, Moon void, Venus cadent and void, this whole exercise looks pretty moot.
Well, there you go.

And here I was looking forward to teaching a synastry chart. I guess that's not going to happen.
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