Feeling guilty about my natal chart.

AtomsInPlace

Well-known member
You're welcome :) - glad that made sense too. Not the case usually with me. Anyway, whenever I see a cluster of many outer planet transits hitting someone it's usually a sign things are feeling really chaotic in a person's life. If the chart indicates introversion it's even more so because we are not as capable of unloading it on others to get a perspective on what's happening. So anything that can help is good.

The way this topic has progressed has piqued my interest in general though as it's so philosophical. What constitutes being selfish? Ensuring we have a job while bumping someone else off so we can provide for our own well-being? Taking advantage of someone because they seem "weak"? Seeing someone suffering on the street and ignoring it? It seems that this is not a set-in-stone distinction and is different for everyone. About the most fascinating (and if you like things balanced, disturbing) bit about this is that someone who is seemingly selfish in one way can be quite unselfish in others when something stimulates them in the opposite direction. So there isn't even an absolute frame of reference for it.

But, good food for thought :)

Thought food is my favourite kind :w00t:

Exactly, also someone can seem selfish, yet have a heart of gold and another can seem selfless yet have very shady intentions...

I was thinking would it be ok if I PM'ed you with some private questions?

Sorry I don't mean to leave anyone out of the loop, there's just a few really sensitive areas of my life that I'm not quite ready to fully expose...


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AppLeo

Well-known member
Aw thanks AppLeo,

I like your energy...

:joyful:

Funny you should mention that about leadership qualities, quite a few people have mentioned the "leader" thing to me...Perhaps I just need to get over my own reluctancy...and I must admit that if the crowd is going that way, you'll most often find me galloping off in the opposite direction hehe...

:lol: Interesting other people have mentioned the leader quality. You could lead people with your music.

This is one of my songs where I definately use my arian moon energy more:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FQ7thr4F8jo

For such a shy character on the forum, you're not so shy on video xP

How do you use your "others" oriented energy in your own chart?

Well I have most of my planets in the 7th and 8th house. I pick their energies almost as my own and act out my own energies in the presence of others. It's like I can't really be alive without other people. For example, my Mars is in the 7th house. In other words, I cannot establish myself as an individual or take action unless I have another person by side. This can manifest as someone competing against me to make me compete, someone who imposes their individuality on me making me establish my own individuality, or just in general I find no value in establishing my mars energy unless I have someone else to bring it out in me.

Hopefully that makes sense.
 

AtomsInPlace

Well-known member
:joyful:



:lol: Interesting other people have mentioned the leader quality. You could lead people with your music.



For such a shy character on the forum, you're not so shy on video xP



Well I have most of my planets in the 7th and 8th house. I pick their energies almost as my own and act out my own energies in the presence of others. It's like I can't really be alive without other people. For example, my Mars is in the 7th house. In other words, I cannot establish myself as an individual or take action unless I have another person by side. This can manifest as someone competing against me to make me compete, someone who imposes their individuality on me making me establish my own individuality, or just in general I find no value in establishing my mars energy unless I have someone else to bring it out in me.

Hopefully that makes sense.

Hehe meh, well it was just me and my laptop, so easy to be sassy with no one around :biggrin:

What you wrote makes perfect sense...It's fantastic that you have such a clear understanding of how these energies manifest for you.

I'm learning so much more about astrology by being here, it's so great to be able to throw ideas and experiences back and forth with everyone...

Thanks for the reply AppLeo :happy:
 

AtomsInPlace

Well-known member
:joyful:




Well I have most of my planets in the 7th and 8th house. I pick their energies almost as my own and act out my own energies in the presence of others. It's like I can't really be alive without other people. For example, my Mars is in the 7th house. In other words, I cannot establish myself as an individual or take action unless I have another person by side. This can manifest as someone competing against me to make me compete, someone who imposes their individuality on me making me establish my own individuality, or just in general I find no value in establishing my mars energy unless I have someone else to bring it out in me.

Hopefully that makes sense.

I'm really grateful that you posted this, it's given me a whole new understanding of my son's natal chart...He has a Gemini 7th house stellium inhabited by Sun, Mars, Venus (all in Gemini) Saturn and Jupiter (in Taurus) with Mercury (Gemini) just stepping into the 8th house.

He really doesn't like to do anything without company, he'll be 17 yrs soon and still, if I ask him to clean his room he'll ask if I will help him.

When I ask him why, he says, because otherwise he can't seem to stay motivated to finish the task, unless someone else is there during the process...

He also seems to be quite unfazed by the darkest elements of life (8th house Gemini Mercury?) it's as if he nonchalantly accepts that death, pain and fear are just natural side effects of life and that much of the pain and fear can be mitigated by simply allowing each other to be the unique (3rd house Aquarius Moon) individuals that we are, whilst striving to be aware of how we affect others (he's definately learning this through his Scorpio asc I think), therefore maintaining as much harmony as possible with in the whole.

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JUPITERASC

Well-known member
I'm really grateful that you posted this,
it's given me a whole new understanding of my son's natal chart
...He has a Gemini 7th house stellium
inhabited by Sun, Mars, Venus (all in Gemini)
Saturn and Jupiter (in Taurus) with Mercury (Gemini)
just stepping into the 8th house.


He really doesn't like to do anything without company,
he'll be 17 yrs soon and still, if I ask him to clean his room
he'll ask if I will help him.

When I ask him why, he says, because otherwise he can't seem to stay motivated to finish the task, unless someone else is there during the process...
AppLeo 19 in a few months, joined our forum when aged 17
and is similar age group as your son


Similar to your son
there is a strong MERCURY influence to your natal as well
because
Your ascendant ruler is MERCURY
so
think of the word MERCURIAL
= characterized by rapid and unpredictable changeableness of mood
for example a mercurial temper

Your Mercury ruled VIRGO ascendant with Mercury conjunct
means you may 'be mercurial' by nature :smile:
i.e.
restless, changeable

He also seems to be quite unfazed by the darkest elements of life ((th house Gemini Mercury?)
it's as if he nonchalantly accepts that death, pain and fear are just natural side effects of life
and that much of the pain and fear can be mitigated
by simply allowing each other to be the unique (3rd house Aquarius Moon) individuals that we are,
whilst striving to be aware of how we affect others
(he's definately learning this through his Scorpio asc I think),
therefore maintaining as much harmony as possible with in the whole.
 

AppLeo

Well-known member
I'm really grateful that you posted this, it's given me a whole new understanding of my son's natal chart...He has a Gemini 7th house stellium inhabited by Sun, Mars, Venus (all in Gemini) Saturn and Jupiter (in Taurus) with Mercury (Gemini) just stepping into the 8th house.

He really doesn't like to do anything without company, he'll be 17 yrs soon and still, if I ask him to clean his room he'll ask if I will help him.

When I ask him why, he says, because otherwise he can't seem to stay motivated to finish the task, unless someone else is there during the process...

That's so funny :lol: I'm like the same way. It's so hard to do things alone.

He also seems to be quite unfazed by the darkest elements of life (8th house Gemini Mercury?) it's as if he nonchalantly accepts that death, pain and fear are just natural side effects of life and that much of the pain and fear can be mitigated by simply allowing each other to be the unique (3rd house Aquarius Moon) individuals that we are, whilst striving to be aware of how we affect others (he's definately learning this through his Scorpio asc I think), therefore maintaining as much harmony as possible with in the whole.

Could be the 8th house planets that makes him unfazed, especially with a scorpion ascendant.
 

AtomsInPlace

Well-known member
It really does...

Bingo!

He's in the process of learning who he is by how he affects his immediate others...

People rarely react lightly towards him, they're either magnetized by him or kinda freaked out by him...LOL

He is very talkative and and quick witted...

He also is likes to push limits when showing what he will do to entertain his comrades, especially physical feats, for example;

He did that salt and ice challenge at a new years party and of course he wanted to be the one who could take the pain the longest...

He ended up burning a hole in his arm that took 2 months to heal :pouty:

Hopping out of windows in underpants to roll around in snow, making snow angels in freezing weather...

And then there was the time whilst he was a social gathering, his nemesis walked over and put a cigarette out on my son's arm...I've been told he didn't even flinch...

Good thing I wasn't there :whistling:

It's no wonder my Virgoan nerves get frazzled at times :andy:

Even so, those influences taken into consideration, he's an all around sensible lad...

He's quite philosophical yet also very realistic in his views.
 

jkxx74

Premium Member
Well I have most of my planets in the 7th and 8th house. I pick their energies almost as my own and act out my own energies in the presence of others. It's like I can't really be alive without other people. For example, my Mars is in the 7th house. In other words, I cannot establish myself as an individual or take action unless I have another person by side. This can manifest as someone competing against me to make me compete, someone who imposes their individuality on me making me establish my own individuality, or just in general I find no value in establishing my mars energy unless I have someone else to bring it out in me.

Hopefully that makes sense.
Thank you AppLeo, that does make sense to me as I have the Sun in the 1st except this year it ends up in the 7th in the solar return. Definitely a very different vibe from what I'm used to and it is taking a while to understand how the 7th house energies manifest. Although I have that tendency for other reasons this is definitely all new to me and it does seem to center around cooperation in a very distinct manner.


In other words, if you don't trust the world, it's better to be selfish because you can count on yourself. You don't know if other people will have your back.
This caught my attention although StillOne basically covered what I wanted to post - the idea that we attract to ourselves that which we believe in (whether through hope or fear) assures we attract people and circumstances of a similar nature and that can come with potentially disastrous results. Not that one should put their own needs aside just because, but it seems just the belief that others are out to get you is very toxic to both them and yourself. That just theoretically toward anyone who thinks this way as no one is 100% immune to it and and it's not automatically a bad trait.


Perhaps Self-Centered is a better concept than Selfish?

To be centered in oneself is to have inner harmony and strength so that the behaviour of others does not throw us off balance and effect our ability to love. By maintaining our equilibrium, we are in a better position to be of service to others. By being of service we are growing and evolving (Self-centered) and also allowing and inspiring others to grow and evolve (Selfless).

We stay centered by knowing our needs and knowing exactly how to get them fulfilled and doing it. It also means taking the time to focus inwards so that you may discern between what you need vs what you want.

It's ok to have desires and fulfill them, yet at the same time, the more desires we have, the higher the risk of us getting bogged down in fulfilling "selfish" desires and actually ending up neglecting our true needs. Thus we lose control over ourselves and become a liability to others and ourselves.

That is why we will always need people/souls who Love...Otherwise entropy would be the result. Love renews and expands.

If one looks at it from the perspective of Soul Evolution (If you entertain such thoughts)

Perhaps one could say that there is no great growth in only loving those whom we deem to be lovable...

Great growth comes from loving those whom we deem to be unlovable, by our own feelings and standards, someone who is unlovable to you might be very lovable to another.

Love manifests in infinite ways depending on the situation and the people/energies involved.

To love someone does not have to manifest as you regularily associating with that person. It might manifest as cutting that person loose so that they can grow too, that is loving, even if it doesn't seem so on the surface.

So if you cut that person loose and it hurts you, or you stand to lose something, then in that situation you are being primarily Selfless, whilst at the same time gaining Self-centered growth and maintaining your equlilibrium.

The other person will naturally (most often) see you as being Selfish.
AtomsInPlace -

Good food for thought there! A friend taught me the difference between these two terms, self-centered vs selfish and the nuances that emerge when one uses them. Self-centered here has a neutral connotation just meaning you know your needs and will take care of them but without necessarily "taking" anything away from another whereas selfish leans more toward taking advantage of the other person for our own gain. And ironically the former points to a more balanced take on life while the latter creates suffering and imbalances - so this makes sense.

You say something very interesting here but I won't comment on it for now other than to nod in agreement. Though you are right that sometimes truly caring for someone does mean you have to leave because that is the better option for them even if you'll miss them very very much. Though this too has a connection to one's way of approaching others - do you give them the benefit of the doubt or is it more of a "unless they are X and do Y I'm not interested" which is nowadays far more common.

Thank you for sharing the music video, it has a very positive vibe to it.

(...still absorbing all the activity in this thread, it seems it has been on fire over the weekend..)
 

rahu

Banned
hi Atomsinplace

I added a few symbols to your chart, but to start with your sun conjunct the node givesd you a very strong aura. this shows that you are felt by others on the psychic level. it gives you a otherworldly feeling at times because unusual occurrence and reactions to you are frequent.
midpoint of your loose mars/venus conjunct t is opposed to sedna. Jupiter is square this opposition. this shows you expect totally truth in relationships. you expect fidelity and honestly imn ypour emotional attachments .
chiron is opposed to venus ans square to Lilith, so you are very intense in relationships, you like to know exactly hoe your emotional interest ticks so to speak.not only in romantic interests but wit all social contacts you desire to understand true feeling and emotional dynamics of all social interaction . as lilith is square e this opposition this need to understand completely others is beyond mental needs, it emanates from you are in your deepsest emotional sensations and reaction.
the problem with this aspect is that in social interaction and emotional interaction ,not everyone can be as honest and direct with their feeligs as you are.this can bring arguments when others do not want to hear about their inner emotional workings. coupled with sedna ,this aspect shows that you do not tolerate duplicity. if some one is being disingenuous toward you , you have it you you to cut them out of your emotional/social life.
mercury is conjuct your ascendat so you are markes with witty intelligence.
but mercury is square to Neptune which gives a very creative and inspired mind but can also show periods when your mind becomes confusd or scattered.
mars is square to orcus which gives you inner seriousness. this aspect can make you react very selflishly at times
.
pluto is opposed eris and square to nessus, you have some unconscious issue with abusive dynamics involved.trhid gives ambivalent emotional reactions toward sexual feelings at timessexual feeling. on other hand this is vey sexual but on the other hand you shy away from emotional interaction because of the abusive issues these planet indicate

venus/Uranus/eris is extremely emotional and sexual but is prone to affairs and unstable let intense affairs.ixion shows a terndency be woth "bad boys" or men that after different morals that you

your sun/pluto midpoint is opposed to ceres so you basic nature is very nurturing an supportive of family and intimate friends or lovers.
your Saturn/moon midpoint is conjunct the ascendant and mercury and square to Neptune. this shows you have a very complex personality and often the best friends will not be able to anticipate your reaction. this can make you very secretive and at times contribute to your sense of mental/emotional confusion.
your juno/Jupiter midpoint is conjunct to mars and opposed to the moon, show you desire lasting serious relationship or marriage, though you don't always shows this side of yourself because the mars/Uranus midpoint is conjunct venus. this can make you flighty as you desire intense emotional connection even if they may be transient.
rahu
 

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AtomsInPlace

Well-known member
hi Atomsinplace

I added a few symbols to your chart, but to start with your sun conjunct the node givesd you a very strong aura. this shows that you are felt by others on the psychic level. it gives you a otherworldly feeling at times because unusual occurrence and reactions to you are frequent.
midpoint of your loose mars/venus conjunct t is opposed to sedna. Jupiter is square this opposition. this shows you expect totally truth in relationships. you expect fidelity and honestly imn ypour emotional attachments .
chiron is opposed to venus ans square to Lilith, so you are very intense in relationships, you like to know exactly hoe your emotional interest ticks so to speak.not only in romantic interests but wit all social contacts you desire to understand true feeling and emotional dynamics of all social interaction . as lilith is square e this opposition this need to understand completely others is beyond mental needs, it emanates from you are in your deepsest emotional sensations and reaction.
the problem with this aspect is that in social interaction and emotional interaction ,not everyone can be as honest and direct with their feeligs as you are.this can bring arguments when others do not want to hear about their inner emotional workings. coupled with sedna ,this aspect shows that you do not tolerate duplicity. if some one is being disingenuous toward you , you have it you you to cut them out of your emotional/social life.
mercury is conjuct your ascendat so you are markes with witty intelligence.
but mercury is square to Neptune which gives a very creative and inspired mind but can also show periods when your mind becomes confusd or scattered.
mars is square to orcus which gives you inner seriousness. this aspect can make you react very selflishly at times
.
pluto is opposed eris and square to nessus, you have some unconscious issue with abusive dynamics involved.trhid gives ambivalent emotional reactions toward sexual feelings at timessexual feeling. on other hand this is vey sexual but on the other hand you shy away from emotional interaction because of the abusive issues these planet indicate

venus/Uranus/eris is extremely emotional and sexual but is prone to affairs and unstable let intense affairs.ixion shows a terndency be woth "bad boys" or men that after different morals that you

your sun/pluto midpoint is opposed to ceres so you basic nature is very nurturing an supportive of family and intimate friends or lovers.
your Saturn/moon midpoint is conjunct the ascendant and mercury and square to Neptune. this shows you have a very complex personality and often the best friends will not be able to anticipate your reaction. this can make you very secretive and at times contribute to your sense of mental/emotional confusion.
your juno/Jupiter midpoint is conjunct to mars and opposed to the moon, show you desire lasting serious relationship or marriage, though you don't always shows this side of yourself because the mars/Uranus midpoint is conjunct venus. this can make you flighty as you desire intense emotional connection even if they may be transient.
rahu

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Well...I feel quite naked :lol:

You're very good...

I have many comments and questions for you...I shall sort through them and I shall return :smile:

Thank you Rahu.
 
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