The planets don't influence you

Julia Karmic Astrology

Well-known member
I re-read one of Jane Roberts' Seth books last winter but it has been a long time since I've read the others. He confirms reincarnation but I don't recall him agreeing with karma in a Hindu sense.

Basically he says that people incarnate into the kind of life that will best promote their learning experiences and soul growth. If they incarnate into a rotten life, it's not that they're being punished; but that perhaps over a previous life of harming other people, their soul growth depends upon experiencing life from the victim's perspective. But this is a choice, not a deterministic punishment.

I was pleasantly surprised in reading Jim Tucker's books Life Before Life and Return to Life, that Seth's perspective correlates with his own findings. Tucker is a MD and professor of child psychiatry at the University of Virginia. His scientific credentials are legit. Tucker's research field is interviewing young children who claim to remember past lives, and then trying to track down through a lot of detective work, whether the person the child recalled actually lived, and had a life corresponding to the child's recollections. Some of Tucker's findings are just uncanny, like a young boy who talked about events and friends that matched the life of a downed young WW II pilot.

But again, Tucker found no evidence that the present life functioned as some kind of reward or punishment for the previous life.

Seth says that all time is simultaneous. A shift for the better in one reality alters the other realities.

Hi Waybread,

I have read Dr. Tucker's work and it is excellent, yes.

I think you are hitting some key differences between karmic astrology, western based, and the Eastern traditions, Hindu, etc.

The Eastern traditions tend to see a karmic fated life script, punishment and reward based.
Western karmic thought is based more upon the notion of free will, choice, and soul purpose and goals. The chart is not seen as punishment, but a learning experience.

As a Western based karmic astrologer, I share some of tenets of Eastern astrolgogy: belief in an eternal soul, reincarnation, karma, etc. But there is a sharp divergence of thought about the reasons for incarnation, the purpose of the karmic wheel, free will, etc.

And yes Seth is correct. Linear time is an artifact of life on Earth. In reality time is fluid and simultaneous. What happens in the now is impacting past and present. The ripples are felt throughout the river of time.

Julia
 
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muchacho

Well-known member
I re-read one of Jane Roberts' Seth books last winter but it has been a long time since I've read the others. He confirms reincarnation but I don't recall him agreeing with karma in a Hindu sense.

That is correct. Here's a quote from Seth on the conventional karma theory:

"Many proponents of reincarnation believe that an illness in one life has its roots in a past existence, and that reincarnational regression is therefore necessary to uncover the reasons for current illnesses or dilemmas. There is also a rather conventional stereotype version of karma that may follow such beliefs. Therefore, you may be punished in this life for errors you have committed in a past one, or you may actually be making up for a mistake made thousands of years ago. Again, all of a person's reincarnational existence are connected - but the events in one life do not cause the events in the next one."

- Seth (The Way Toward Health)
 

muchacho

Well-known member
Hi Waybread,

I have read Dr. Tucker's work and it is excellent, yes.

I think you are hitting about some key differences between karmic astrology, western based, and the Eastern traditions, Hindu, etc.

The Eastern traditions tend to see a karmic fated life script, punishment and reward based.
Western karmic thought is based more upon the notion of free will, choice, and soul purpose and goals. The chart is not seen as punishment, but a learning experience.

As a Western based karmic astrologer, I share some of tenets of Eastern astrolgogy: belief in an eternal soul, reincarnation, karma, etc. But there is a sharp divergence of thought about the reasons for incarnation, the purpose of the karmic wheel, free will, etc.
That's interesting stuff, Julia. Can you say a bit more about those differences?
 

Julia Karmic Astrology

Well-known member
Amazing ! So does that mean we are sent here to extinguish our karma but end up attracting more in the process ? 😃

Yes that was the situation, we come back to burn off old karma.
And in the process we accrue more. It was a bit of a hamster wheel. :(

However, the entire universe is geared towards growth and evolution.
The planet Earth has been ascending into a higher level of consciousness.
Many souls have agreed to take on collective karma, you can see this in
the natal charts on this forum. So many charts with 12 house, 1/7 and 6/12 emphasis.

A lot of the karmic flotsam and jetsam being cleared on this planet.
Getting off the hamster wheel into higher levels of growth.

Julia
 

waybread

Well-known member
Julia, your version of karma is most refreshing. I like it.

I guess what typically bothers me about a lot of karmic astrology is the view that if someone is miserably unhappy in this life, they must have been a rotten person in a previous life. Too often, there are astrologers ready to reinforce this unhappiness, even though they cannot truthfully say what the person's past life or lives were about.

The opposite danger with a choice-centered view of incarnation is the belief that victims deliberately chose their current problems, so there's no point in trying to help them.

Because our own incarnation might just be all about helping victims, out of a chosen sense of compassion.

And so on.
 

Julia Karmic Astrology

Well-known member
That's interesting stuff, Julia. Can you say a bit more about those differences?

Just a few thoughts:

I cannot speak at length about Eastern based astrology, but I am aware of some of the similarities and differences between it and Western based Karmic Astrology. My sense of this is based upon only basic Vedic astrology training and the type readings conducted by my Vedic astrologer friends. I have also had quite a few clients from India, etc. and have come to understand their view and expectations of astrology.

Certainly some of the Vedics/Chinese specialties are free to chime in, and correct my understanding if need be. I should add that karmic astrology also has similarities and sharp differences with Western astrology.

One difference is that the natal chart in Eastern tradition seems to be more of a fated life script, life events pre-ordained, etc. Life seems to have more of a set in stone feel to it, and the natal chart is examined in detail prior to major life decision making. Good friends of mine, from the East, were not permitted to marry because of a conflict between their natal charts.

In Western karmic astrology, the emphasis is upon free will, not fated life scripts. We can see the astrological energy in charts, but free will determines how that energy will be used. In that way, karmic astrology is much less predictive than the eastern traditions.

Another difference is that Karmic Astrology is less reward/punishment focused, but more about learning, growth and opportunity. Yes we bring back patterns from past lives, strengths and weaknesses, not for punishment, but for a chance to learn and grow. Life on Earth is not a picnic; we are here for a reason.

In Karmic Astrology we believe that each soul chooses his natal chart; the exact moment and place of birth is deliberately chosen prior to birth. The natal chart is seen as beautiful, perfect and as it should be for the maximum growth opportunity for each incarnation. You can see how this more positive view is quite different from western astrology as well. I am truly shocked by how many people post a reading request on this forum stating that they are terrified of their charts and are “doomed.”

I see the natal chart as a gift from God or the Divine, it is a sacred document. Therefore it is treated with the respect and appreciation it deserves. This attitude is shared with the Eastern tradition, not so much with Western Astrology.

I should also say that I am not quite satisfied with calling myself a karmic astrologer, perhaps spiritual or soul astrology is a better fit. But most people are more used to the term karmic astrologer.

Julia
 

Julia Karmic Astrology

Well-known member
Yeah, Abraham-Hicks compare it to a vacation. You've read your travel guide, chosen your itinerary and then off you go. But the destinations on your list are not mandatory. You can change your itinerary any time or even call off the entire vacation any time and go home.

Well stated!

The only thing I would disagree with is calling incarnations on Earth a "vacation".
Not true from most of us. Earth is a tough school.

Julia
 

Julia Karmic Astrology

Well-known member
Julia, your version of karma is most refreshing. I like it.

I guess what typically bothers me about a lot of karmic astrology is the view that if someone is miserably unhappy in this life, they must have been a rotten person in a previous life. Too often, there are astrologers ready to reinforce this unhappiness, even though they cannot truthfully say what the person's past life or lives were about.

I am bothered by the same thing.

To say that this life is a deserved punishment for bad past behavior seems simplistic and missing the point of reincarnation and spirituality. I believe that the entire universe is hard wired for evolution and growth. And that is the focus of karma.

The opposite danger with a choice-centered view of incarnation is the belief that victims deliberately chose their current problems, so there's no point in trying to help them.

Because our own incarnation might just be all about helping victims, out of a chosen sense of compassion.

And so on.

Yes exactly, I totally agree. Some of the beliefs just don't make any logical or spiritual sense.

I am widely read on spiritual, esoteric topics, and some of the new age viewpoints, I can only shake my head.

We are souls incarnating on earth to learn as much as we can for the purpose of soul evolution. Towards that end, we come here and work our way around the zodiac until we have learned all we can learn on Earth and are ready to move on. All of us have been saints, all of us have been sinners. And everything in between. There is no judgement about that. We are here to learn the entire gamut of human experience for soul growth.

And of course we are here to help others and to make the planet a better place. I do not think we are meant to just take up space.

Julia
 

AppLeo

Well-known member
I've always thought that when you look at your natal chart it's like looking into a pool of water for the first time.
 

AppLeo

Well-known member
An interesting metaphor. I compare looking at a horoscope like looking under the hood of a car.

Lul, my metaphor is better :biggrin:

BTW, way bread. Weren't you a teacher?? Would you ever want to grade my english essays :3? You're really good at pointing out my flaws and I'm taking kind of a hard english class, so I was just wondering.
 
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waybread

Well-known member
AppLeo, I'm not quite up for grading papers, but you can PM me about anything particular tough. Only problem, is that my field wasn't English composition.
 

Kannon

Well-known member
You could say that many followers of astrology over-estimate astrological influence, but this quote from Bashar goes too far in claiming no influence. Edgar Cayce stated 80% of life (outcomes) is free will, but the 20% of outer influence is still substantial.
 

RaRohini

Well-known member
Just a few thoughts:

I cannot speak at length about Eastern based astrology, but I am aware of some of the similarities and differences between it and Western based Karmic Astrology. My sense of this is based upon only basic Vedic astrology training and the type readings conducted by my Vedic astrologer friends. I have also had quite a few clients from India, etc. and have come to understand their view and expectations of astrology.

Certainly some of the Vedics/Chinese specialties are free to chime in, and correct my understanding if need be. I should add that karmic astrology also has similarities and sharp differences with Western astrology.

One difference is that the natal chart in Eastern tradition seems to be more of a fated life script, life events pre-ordained, etc. Life seems to have more of a set in stone feel to it, and the natal chart is examined in detail prior to major life decision making. Good friends of mine, from the East, were not permitted to marry because of a conflict between their natal charts.

In Western karmic astrology, the emphasis is upon free will, not fated life scripts. We can see the astrological energy in charts, but free will determines how that energy will be used. In that way, karmic astrology is much less predictive than the eastern traditions.

Another difference is that Karmic Astrology is less reward/punishment focused, but more about learning, growth and opportunity. Yes we bring back patterns from past lives, strengths and weaknesses, not for punishment, but for a chance to learn and grow. Life on Earth is not a picnic; we are here for a reason.

In Karmic Astrology we believe that each soul chooses his natal chart; the exact moment and place of birth is deliberately chosen prior to birth. The natal chart is seen as beautiful, perfect and as it should be for the maximum growth opportunity for each incarnation. You can see how this more positive view is quite different from western astrology as well. I am truly shocked by how many people post a reading request on this forum stating that they are terrified of their charts and are “doomed.”

I see the natal chart as a gift from God or the Divine, it is a sacred document. Therefore it is treated with the respect and appreciation it deserves. This attitude is shared with the Eastern tradition, not so much with Western Astrology.

I should also say that I am not quite satisfied with calling myself a karmic astrologer, perhaps spiritual or soul astrology is a better fit. But most people are more used to the term karmic astrologer.

Julia

Hi Julia ,
Thank you for your insight !!

In my opinion,fate and free will are one and the same thing.
The type of energies given to you is 'fate'. How you use the energy is 'free will'.

Regarding the point related to arranged marriages in Eastern philosophy- it just makes things easier. Even if you choose your mate of your own free will, the energies that you attract will be those energies fated for you. That is why people generally tend to attract the similar type of lovers of again and again.
 

RaRohini

Well-known member
Just a few thoughts:

I cannot speak at length about Eastern based astrology, but I am aware of some of the similarities and differences between it and Western based Karmic Astrology. My sense of this is based upon only basic Vedic astrology training and the type readings conducted by my Vedic astrologer friends. I have also had quite a few clients from India, etc. and have come to understand their view and expectations of astrology.

Certainly some of the Vedics/Chinese specialties are free to chime in, and correct my understanding if need be. I should add that karmic astrology also has similarities and sharp differences with Western astrology.

One difference is that the natal chart in Eastern tradition seems to be more of a fated life script, life events pre-ordained, etc. Life seems to have more of a set in stone feel to it, and the natal chart is examined in detail prior to major life decision making. Good friends of mine, from the East, were not permitted to marry because of a conflict between their natal charts.

In Western karmic astrology, the emphasis is upon free will, not fated life scripts. We can see the astrological energy in charts, but free will determines how that energy will be used. In that way, karmic astrology is much less predictive than the eastern traditions.

Another difference is that Karmic Astrology is less reward/punishment focused, but more about learning, growth and opportunity. Yes we bring back patterns from past lives, strengths and weaknesses, not for punishment, but for a chance to learn and grow. Life on Earth is not a picnic; we are here for a reason.

In Karmic Astrology we believe that each soul chooses his natal chart; the exact moment and place of birth is deliberately chosen prior to birth. The natal chart is seen as beautiful, perfect and as it should be for the maximum growth opportunity for each incarnation. You can see how this more positive view is quite different from western astrology as well. I am truly shocked by how many people post a reading request on this forum stating that they are terrified of their charts and are “doomed.”

I see the natal chart as a gift from God or the Divine, it is a sacred document. Therefore it is treated with the respect and appreciation it deserves. This attitude is shared with the Eastern tradition, not so much with Western Astrology.

I should also say that I am not quite satisfied with calling myself a karmic astrologer, perhaps spiritual or soul astrology is a better fit. But most people are more used to the term karmic astrologer.

Julia

Hi Julia ,
Thank you for your insight !!

In my opinion,fate and free will are one and the same thing.
The type of energies given to you is 'fate'. How you use the energy is 'free will'.

Regarding the point related to arranged marriages in Eastern philosophy- it just makes things easier. Even if you choose your mate of your own free will, the energies that you attract will be those energies fated for you. That is why people generally tend to attract similar type of lovers of again and again. It is a pattern.
 

Julia Karmic Astrology

Well-known member
This reminds me of something I've heard and thought about in the past regarding astrology. Most people seem to think that Astrology is about the STARS having INFLUENCE ON US, when in reality I think it is much more likely that the stars and planets may possibly be merely a PARALLEL to what is going on in the universe at any given moment, but the massive objects themselves are NOT THE ACTUAL PHYSICAL INFLUENCERS - if that makes sense.

What I'm saying is that essentially people think the planets themselves are the ones making events happen, but I'm saying that the planets and their positions are simply the visual representation - a map if you will - of how different energies are currently interacting and exerting force in the universe - so it is a visual guide - not that the actual gravitational force of each specific planet is having a physical effect on humans from Earth.

CAPS for EMPHASIS lol.

Astro,

Thank you for posting your idea which is intriguing, makes sense, and answers questions. I agree that the planets in our solar system are not acting in isolation. They are connected to the rest of the universe. And perhaps they are just receivers for cosmic energy.

Julia
 
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