Is a mercury conjunct/combust sun good or bad ?

Sun @ 8 degrees and mercury @ 3 degrees, so a 5 degree orb making mercury combust in the 7th house of Taurus.

Is this a good or bad thing to have in Natal ?

If its bad would this make the native unable to be heard and express them selves properly, or would it be an ego thing where they may not want to listen, especially being in Taurus. ?

Or if this is a good thing to have, then can you tell me why please.

Chrysalis said:

Sun @ 8 degrees and mercury @ 3 degrees, so a 5 degree orb making mercury combust in the 7th house of Taurus.

Is this a good or bad thing to have in Natal ?

If its bad would this make the native unable to be heard and express them selves properly, or would it be an ego thing where they may not want to listen, especially being in Taurus. ?

Or if this is a good thing to have, then can you tell me why please.

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Combustion is an affliction that weakens the planet at 8°30' of the Sun.

I don't think that there is an universal recipe to interpret how exactly its effect will be, but it's something to take into account as "bad".

urano said:

Combustion is an affliction that weakens the planet at 8°30' of the Sun.

I don't think that there is an universal recipe to interpret how exactly its effect will be, but it's something to take into account as "bad".

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Okay that's all i needed to know, so it weakens the planet just like it does in horary.

I wasn't sure if natal was different.

I don't exactly see how its going to be that "bad", as mercury is almost always close to the sun and combust, so there must be a lot of natives who have a combust mercury.

Chrysalis said:

Okay that's all i needed to know, so it weakens the planet just like it does in horary.

I wasn't sure if natal was different.

I don't exactly see how its going to be that "bad", as mercury is almost always close to the sun and combust, so there must be a lot of natives who have a combust mercury.

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Yes it's the same thing than in Horary. Possibly modern astrology doesn't consider it however.
In traditional astrology it's even an affliction pretty serious, for Mercury or any other planet at 8°30' of the Sun!
But you are right, Mercury is often close to the Sun, Venus isn't far away as well.

Both.

Sun/Mercury conjunct is a combination that can give intelligence, skill, respect etc (in Jyotish anyway).

However, being combust will cause agitation and frustration with what Mercury rules in the chart as well as in the house where it is (though the person will develop skill in the house position).

If the good effects or bad effects predominates depends more on the strengths of the Sun and Mercury. Dignities, house position etc. But there will be a mix.

There is an affinity between the Sun & Mercury so there is a reason they travel close together, 'I think therefore I am' experiences=wisdom's will be experienced.

Llewellyn speaks of the Sun (depends upon whom is faster also) rising before Hermes as a native speaking out of turn, before all facts are known-speaking without true discernment or in possession of a thorough understanding demonstrated without consideration of true purport. The ego reacts as if it knows, without the aid of Mercury's beneficial effect creating 'true' thoughtful delivery. Mercury behind Sole is in a sort of 12th house dissatisfaction position to him, the result is the native often wishes to be acknowledged by peers or superiors without wishing to do the homework - the individual is 'blast' without courtesy therefore his peer group feigns her/his contribution efforts. The entity must first understand the requirements (by intelligent sparing) to be able to join the sorority with equal awareness of the team ideal.

If Mercury is faster (Sun slow vs Mercury fast) than Sole there is 'early' a time (youth) noted in the progressions of the nativity the lack of proper unity (Mercury & Sun) mind and spirit-will be righted & the native will overcome his awkward immaturity. (Leo temperament Sun is the child mind or persona) Mercury needs to learn by close association with Sun & vice versa (understanding self as dominant identity; by house sign aspect) to see where there is lacking in character or acceptable value standards (intellect assists identity) so that he/she may meet the group requirements & be appreciated.

When Mercury is faster than Sole & moves ahead & from under his rays; the value of how to achieve true identity-(mental keen united with spiritual understanding) = independence; the entity or self awareness is awakened by 'knowing thyself first.' The need to instrument a refinement or include further symmetry by research to whatever Domain/Leo/Identifier/Sun means in the chart is learned by association so very close to Sun. The native stumble's and is corrected but learns a refiner's fire by these experiences of regrouping. Recognizing Papa (higher source) urges the sage to study, to build confidence, by uniting mind & spirit= experience develops wisdom and care. He learns how to be successful & integrate human charitable qualities in exchanges, using his intellect with his ego rather than the display of his ego presence 1st as an introduction. I think Mercury Combust is a sign of learning, & at the right time Mercury will be Cazumi with Sun, (Proud Papa (confidence) protects and says, well done son; or) the lessons are grasped finally, & decorum & protocol that was once not sufficient now is presentable; for mind and spirit are united to present these attributes with success by integration factoring. Mercury follows suit of the best awakening lessons of Sun (vice versa) as he will be able to emulate the Sun not only with intelligent discourse (Sun/Mercury types will enter into his life=conjunction effect (should he be lucky to recognize them) & by right association awareness, he is able to process into his nature best qualities of Mercury & Sun (=Karma Dharma lessons=persona becomes confident able)-he shows the world the best attributes of Mercury with Sun (learned creative talent) = integrated value=the complete ego (as best one may achieve in this limited tenure upon the earth.)=a competent challenger, respected & acknowledged.

So many run on sentences-hope understandable.

All the best
Vyri

If Mercury is combust or under the Sun's beam it's bad. But if it's super close (as in, cazimi), then it becomes very good.

But yeah, it's like someone said, Mercury is always not far away from the Sun and that there must be a lot of people with Mercury combust. In fact, I think this would explain why so many people vote against their own interests in so many elections....

It truly depends on whether you talk to a traditional or modern astrologer.

In traditional astrology a planet combust the sun is weakened.

In modern astrology, a planet conjunct the sun is not weakened, but it shows what the person identifies with. A person with Mercury conjunct sun would probably identify (sun) with his intelligence (Mercury.)

I have the conjunction at 7 degrees 17 and have made the following observations:

Sun conjunct Mercury people have their own way of thinking. Possibly the father (true in my case 100%) influenced the native's way of thinking and manner of speech considerably. Also, a person like that has a very 'characteristic' way of speech. The minute you hear him/her speak you know it's them and it's impossible to mistake them for someone else (think of Angela Lansbury) In actors, especially if there aren't any Neptune aspects with Mercury, it's usually the sign of a character actor who creates a distinct persona and usually can't play anything else (think of Hugh Grant or Woody Allen). One of my former teachers has the conjunction very tightly (zero degrees or one at the most) and I can see how debilitating it is for him because it's so tight: he absolutely can't think in any other way but his own and it can be frustrating for others. But as with others with the conjunction, I think this is also an indicator (along with Mercury/Uranus) of intellectual brilliance. Just like Sun conj Venus people shine with their physical appearance, so do Sun conj Mercury people shine with their words and brains.

I myself try to be as objective as possible (trine Uranus) and try to take other's views into consideration (trine Neptune), but have nevertheless been accused by my former girlfriend that I'm too subjective in the way I think. Woops... There's the Sun for you...

From Astro Weekly:

Said of a planet when in extreme closeness to the Sun, the limits variously placed at from 3° to 8°30'. The characteristic effect to which the term applies is probably confined within an arc of 3° and is more pronounced when the planet rises after the Sun. Older authorities, including Milton, have described it as weakening, except in the case of Mars which was said to be intensified. The probabilities are that the effect of the combust condition is to combine the planet's influence more closely with that of the Sun, until it is no longer a physical emotion capable of independent control, but an integral part of that consciousness of Destiny that the Sun imparts. Thus Mercury combust imparts to the mind a capacity for concentration upon what it deems its own destiny, but robs it of its receptivity to distracting or diverting influences. Hence it is no bar to the achievement of its own objectives insofar as the ability to achieve them is within its own powers, but it robs the native of the cooperation of those whom he alienates by his particular species of obtuse deafness to any or all argument that runs counter to his own concepts. Edison and Kant both illustrate this interpretation. Venus combust may take away the strength to achieve, but when in a particularly close conjunction with the Sun it produces the condition sometimes termed nymphomania - described by Bolitho concerning Lola Montez. Mars combust is always the man who fights for what he wants; and so with each planet according to its intrinsic nature.

The distinction is an important one, in that a person with an entirely unaspected Mercury is one who usually develops a complex by way of an escape mechanism, while one whose Mercury is within 5° to 10° of the Sun is seldom afflicted with any manner of mental derangement.

Wilson says "there seems manifest a difference in genius and propensities of natives, according to the distance of their Mercury from the Sun; and that those whose Mercury is combust have little wit or solid judgment, though they will persevere in business and frequently with good success." Also that a good aspect to the Moon, if angular and increasing in light, will in great measure remedy this defect, making one "judicious and penetrating."

It should not be confused with the phrase "under the Sun's beams" which applies to, let us say, the degree of non-combustion, and is perhaps embodied in the doctrine that a planet within the Sun's aura - which extends to 17° on either side - is within orbs of a conjunction therewith. In other words, while the orbs of the planets, with regard to aspects, are variously from 3° to 10° according to the nature of the aspect, the solar orb, by conjunction or opposition, can be as much as 17°.
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I have Su/Me Cj. with 4Deg.57' orb Taurus

I have no problem accept for having Gemini intercepted in my 12th house which when alone my mind never turns off. Insomnia. Also my mind is working as for multitasking during the day when even talking to others.

The question of planets being 'combust' is one where I disagree with traditional interpretations. I do not believe that Mercury or Venus are automatically weakened or debilitated just by being close to the Sun.

Some of the most awesome and amazing people I know have Sun conjunct Venus or Mercury or Jupiter.

One of my favorite teachers had Sun conjunct Mercury, with a 6 degree orb, in Gemini. She explained things so well, and was so funny and animated when she spoke.

I did ask her for her birth data because I really wanted to see her chart. She made a huge impact upon me at a time when I needed a mentor.

katydid said:

The question of planets being 'combust' is one where I disagree with traditional interpretations. I do not believe that Mercury or Venus are automatically weakened or debilitated just by being close to the Sun.

Some of the most awesome and amazing people I know have Sun conjunct Venus or Mercury or Jupiter.

One of my favorite teachers had Sun conjunct Mercury, with a 6 degree orb, in Gemini. She explained things so well, and was so funny and animated when she spoke.

I did ask her for her birth data because I really wanted to see her chart. She made a huge impact upon me at a time when I needed a mentor.

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I agree to a point as there needs to be factors as for integrating the chart into a whole. Any major planetary aspects need to be looked at as I have Me/Sa exact trine and Me/Ur exact square. Then you look at the secondary aspects also.

In the theory I hold most true due to experience in many readings, I have found that those with Sun combust Mercury, say within one degree, generally lack objectivity in their dealings with themselves and others. They tend to be somewhat indecisive, due to their lack of ability to objectify their experiences and/or impersonally analyze evidence that would produce decisions. They tend to be more subjective by far than average. It can be very hard to reason them out of their natural biases, whether or not these biases really work for producing the long-term results they seek (as often suggested by their north node of the moon). Thus, this can be considered a malefic aspect. (Not so with Venus, by the way, which I find to be very powerful when combust the sun, giving a radiantly beautiful person who is often very successful in romantic realms.) However, since everything "bad" in astrology can in some contexts be "good," Sun combust Mercury natives also have a talent for obsessive long-term diligent focus in realms of action and expertise ruled by the sign and planet. For example, I know one Sun combust Mercury in Taurus in the fourth house native who does tech support for a major bank, but has difficulty acting out his creative abilities in the fields of acting and comedy (which would be more ruled by the opposite Scorpio in the tenth house conjunct Neptune point). So he toils away solving Taurean problems while lacking objectivity in how to develop his more favored career success. He is a slave to his Taurean Sun combust Mercury immediate material-action pursuits. I would always counsel those with sun combust Mercury to develop a bit more latitude and long-term objectivity in their thinking, more open-mindedness, and less fixation on one point at a time. It is almost like honorary obsessive-compulsive disorder, or an ACG dysfunction. They need to spread out their perceptions.

Joseph Barclay Ross said:

In the theory I hold most true due to experience in many readings, I have found that those with Sun combust Mercury, say within one degree, generally lack objectivity in their dealings with themselves and others. They tend to be somewhat indecisive, due to their lack of ability to objectify their experiences and/or impersonally analyze evidence that would produce decisions. They tend to be more subjective by far than average. It can be very hard to reason them out of their natural biases, whether or not these biases really work for producing the long-term results they seek (as often suggested by their north node of the moon). Thus, this can be considered a malefic aspect. (Not so with Venus, by the way, which I find to be very powerful when combust the sun, giving a radiantly beautiful person who is often very successful in romantic realms.) However, since everything "bad" in astrology can in some contexts be "good," Sun combust Mercury natives also have a talent for obsessive long-term diligent focus in realms of action and expertise ruled by the sign and planet. For example, I know one Sun combust Mercury in Taurus in the fourth house native who does tech support for a major bank, but has difficulty acting out his creative abilities in the fields of acting and comedy (which would be more ruled by the opposite Scorpio in the tenth house conjunct Neptune point). So he toils away solving Taurean problems while lacking objectivity in how to develop his more favored career success. He is a slave to his Taurean Sun combust Mercury immediate material-action pursuits. I would always counsel those with sun combust Mercury to develop a bit more latitude and long-term objectivity in their thinking, more open-mindedness, and less fixation on one point at a time. It is almost like honorary obsessive-compulsive disorder, or an ACG dysfunction. They need to spread out their perceptions.

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I can agree that a conjunction of 1 degree or less can be intense or problematic. It is hard to have objectivity with such a close conjunction of Sun/Mercury.

But I have issues with saying that holds true with conjunctions of 6 or 7 degrees too. In my experience that doesn't always hold true.

Yes, I quite agree that six or seven degrees of conjunction suggests no abnormality or special qualities in and of itself. And, actually, just the opposite, a truly wide conjunction (nearing the max of 28 degrees) would suggest abnormality or special qualities, in this case, extreme objectivity; just as Mercury combust within one degree would suggest, conversely, extreme subjectivity or even mental self-absorption in the realm of its house and sign, all other things being equal. And I would give one degree of combust to be truly combust or cazimi, as seems to be the flavor of the thread.
Actually, average distances on a statistical hump would be interesting to know. Have to look that up. Great subject. Interesting Mercury content: https://www.khaldea.com/rudhyar/aspc/aspc_c7.shtml

Rawiri said:

Both.

Sun/Mercury conjunct is a combination that can give intelligence, skill, respect etc (in Jyotish anyway).

However, being combust will cause agitation and frustration with what Mercury rules in the chart as well as in the house where it is (though the person will develop skill in the house position).

If the good effects or bad effects predominates depends more on the strengths of the Sun and Mercury. Dignities, house position etc. But there will be a mix.

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It is the same in Hellenistic. Mercury in conjunction with the Sun by sign is doryphory, but it is better for Mercury to be morning rising rather than under the beams with close conjunction (where it is inoperative), and dignified or angular.

I have seen a lot of professors' charts with sun conjunct Mercury. These are smart people with Ph. D. degrees.

I noted that in modern astrology, a planet conjunct the sun indicates what one identifies with. One's intelligence (articulateness, manual dexterity, or other Mercurial trait) might be positive or negative. Then the sign and aspects to the sun-Mercury matter a lot.

Sometimes I think "objectivity" is pretty subjective.

This is one of astrology's most perplexing issues.

It has taken me decades to even recognize that my combust Merc, which also rules my chart, has give me certain traits in communicating, focus, compartmentalization, distraction, and a certain Neptunian quality, which is not explained by any aspect involving Neptune itself.

So I would say it's very personal and unique to the native.

Certainly it helps if Mercury (and the Sun) are well aspected otherwise.
LIN