Donald Trump will be impeached.

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david starling

Well-known member
petosiris said:
It is not going to happen. I do not see any change of general chronocrators over the Sun or the Midheaven (by primary direction), that applies to the next election as well. Saturn in transit isn't going to afflict them either (he was in opposition to the Sun in 2016), while Jupiter is going to be in trine with MC later next year, just like he was in trine with the Sun in 2016. :smile:
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Are you conflating impeachment with conviction? The House does the former, and it looks like there's enough votes for that. Then, the Senate considers the latter, and not enough votes for that--just as Clinton was impeached in the House, but not convicted in the Senate.
 
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petosiris

Banned
david starling said:
Are you conflating impeachment with conviction? The House does the former, and it looks like there's enough votes for that. Then, the Senate considers the latter, and not enough votes for that--just as Clinton was impeached in the House, but not convicted in the Senate.
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Don't you think that the impeachment has to show in some way with affliction of dignity or position? I am pretty sure it is going to have a negative impact on his political career...
 
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david starling

Well-known member
Dirius said:
You are being deliberately cryptic in your responses, typical sign of lacking a proper argument.

To settle the issue, what would be your ideal form of goverment? Or at least one that would be functional, as to not be so utopian.
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If the government we have now, and the economic system that we have now isn't "functional" , including taxation, government regulations, and a social safety net, then why have we been doing as well as have, since the end of WW II?

The current administration is trying to wreck that successful situation, to the detriment of everyone's Environment, and to the economic advantage of the greediest among us, and at the expense of the poor. There's a recent mood of desperation and despair that has actually lowered the life-expectancy statistics in the U.S. due to suicides and drug overdoses.

Btw, as to whether your being a citizen here and voting would have an impact on the Electoral College vote, that depends on what State you reside in. In California, for example, a vote for the Republican-party Presidential candidate is meaningless, under the Electoral College system--ALL of the Electoral votes will go to the Democratic-party candidate, regardless.
 
JUPITERASC

JUPITERASC

Well-known member
david starling said:
Yeah, won't look good on his resume.

Same as his 7 bankruptcies.
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donald-trump-has-owned-515-businesses-7-of-which-have-7091083.png
 
Dirius

Dirius

Well-known member
passiflora said:
I’m not trying to be cryptic, it’s being mobile! I have ideals, but hold them lightly because people have terrible literalist tendencies and our ideals can quickly become unyielding audits and purity tests - instruments of domination instead of evolution. So now my ideals include good journey and good destination.
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You are still doing it. If you don't want to discuss the subject, thats your choice. But don't weigh in with little comments that serve no purpose to move the discussion foward.
 
Dirius

Dirius

Well-known member
david starling said:
If the government we have now, and the economic system that we have now isn't "functional" , including taxation, government regulations, and a social safety net, then why have we been doing as well as have, since the end of WW II?
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If you compare your system with the likes of socialist south america, commie europe, or africa, obviously the american system is far better. Mostly because it was rooted on respecting the individual's ability to excersice economic freedom.

But no system in which useless politicians hold office for over 30 years, enriching themselves at the expense of taxpayer's money while many people are unemployed or have their livelihood ruined to sustain an engorged political mafia will ever be fair. People need to be freee from tyrants who earn millions a year in campaign bribes and goverment salaries. How is it that most senators in your country are rich, or on the very least far more wealthy than the average worker?

I would argue that the current administration in the US has done great work at reducing these problems, by freeing people from the grasp of goverment bureaucracy.
 
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david starling

Well-known member
Dirius said:
If you compare your system with the likes of socialist south america, commie europe, or africa, obviously the american system is far better. Mostly because it was rooted on respecting the individual's ability to excersice economic freedom.

But no system in which useless politicians hold office for over 30 years, enriching themselves at the expense of taxpayer's money while many people are unemployed or have their livelihood ruined to sustain an engorged political mafia will ever be fair. People need to be freee from tyrants who earn millions a year in campaign bribes and goverment salaries. How is it that most senators in your country are rich, or on the very least far more wealthy than the average worker?

I would argue that the current administration in the US has done great work at reducing these problems, by freeing people from the grasp of goverment bureaucracy.
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I disagree that corporations should be included in the expression "We, the People". A billionaire freeing corporations from worker-safety and environmental and wilderness protection, and lowering their taxes, isn't freeing people from the bureaucracy. He's just serving his base, which includes the Petrochemical Industry and the Arms Industry. His administration recently allowed a bee-killing pesticide to be used, that's been banned for 20 years. He's attempting to force California to lower its clean air standards to serve the interests of corporate profits.

People breathe air and drink water, which fracking and leaking oil pipelines pollute. Corporations aren't biological entities. He's a dyed-in-the-wool Corporatist, not the Populist he masquerades as.
 
Dirius

Dirius

Well-known member
passiflora said:
You don’t know what you’re talking about, therefore I’m happy to step out of a conversation using your position as a foil.
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I'd rather you participate, just with actual arguments and opinions. If you disagree with something I said I'm happy to discuss it, but we can't do that if you don't explain your position at all and answer with short deflective comments.
 
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david starling

Well-known member
Dirius said:
I'd rather you participate, just with actual arguments and opinions. If you disagree with something I said I'm happy to discuss it, but we can't do that if you don't explain your position at all and answer with short deflective comments.
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Maybe I can clear this up? Passiflora is just saying that the corrupt are always in power, and will misuse ANY economic system to their own advantage. Until human nature improves, that won't change. She calls it Evolving.

[I personally call it the Aquarian Age, but that's probably not on your radar, so you can disregard my additional comment.]
 
Dirius

Dirius

Well-known member
david starling said:
I disagree that corporations should be included in the expression "We, the People". A billionaire freeing corporations from worker-safety and environmental and wilderness protection, and lowering their taxes, isn't freeing people from the bureaucracy. He's just serving his base, which includes the Petrochemical Industry and the Arms Industry. His administration recently allowed a bee-killing pesticide to be used, that's been banned for 20 years. He's attempting to force California to lower its clean air standards to serve the interests of corporate profits.

People breathe air and drink water, which fracking and leaking oil pipelines pollute. Corporations aren't biological entities. He's a dyed-in-the-wool Corporatist, not the Populist he masquerades as.
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Actually it is. It allows people to better regulate themselves free from goverment compulsion.

- If the public finds that a company does not uphold certain standards you can not buy from them and let them go bankrupt, allowing those corporations who respect the environment thrive. And corporatioins that break the law and harm the environment can be taken to court by citizens.

- If you feel like workers are not being offered safe conditions you can reject job offers; and if you feel like corporations are the ones in a position of power to submit the workforce, then collective bargaining can equalize the workers so unions can negotiate better conditions.

None of those things actually require goverment involvement.
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Also its fair to note that, according to wikipedia, the largest cause of air pollution in california is residential wood combustion (not corporations):
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pollution_in_California#Causes

Pm_25_all_ca.gif
 
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david starling

Well-known member
Dirius said:
Actually it is. It allows people to better regulate themselves free from goverment compulsion.

- If the public finds that a company does not uphold certain standards you can not buy from them and let them go bankrupt, allowing those corporations who respect the environment thrive. And corporatioins that break the law and harm the environment can be taken to court by citizens.

- If you feel like workers are not being offered safe conditions you can reject job offers; and if you feel like corporations are the ones in a position of power to submit the workforce, then collective bargaining can equalize the workers so unions can negotiate better conditions.

None of those things actually require goverment involvement.
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Also its fair to note that, according to wikipedia, the largest cause of air pollution in california is residential wood combustion (not corporations):
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pollution_in_California#Causes

Pm_25_all_ca.gif
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Industrial processes are a close second, and are FAR more carcinogenic. Fossil fuel emissions are up close and personal, and are also extremely hazardous to our health.
 
Dirius

Dirius

Well-known member
david starling said:
Maybe I can clear this up? Passiflora is just saying that the corrupt are always in power, and will misuse ANY economic system to their own advantage. Until human nature improves, that won't change. She calls it Evolving.

[I personally call it the Aquarian Age, but that's probably not on your radar, so you can disregard my additional comment.]
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Thnx. In response top passiflora:

I don't think its about finding the perfect system, cause there isn't one. But there are bad systems which are born out of corruption. Capitalism can become corrupt, but socialism is born out of corruption.
 
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Dirius

Dirius

Well-known member
david starling said:
Industrial processes are a close second, and are FAR more carcinogenic.
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Sure, they are harmful, no one denies that. I'm saying its interesting that the biggest cause of air pollution, are the activities of normal inhabitants.

Furthermore if you add all the rest, they also come from the public, such as on road vehicles.

Should you tax and regulate californians because of it?
 
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david starling

Well-known member
If you need to feed your family, you can't AFFORD to reject the jobs that corporations provide. The corporations can't control their need to place profits over damage to the biological environment. That's where government comes in.
 
Dirius

Dirius

Well-known member
david starling said:
If you need to feed your family, you can't AFFORD to reject the jobs that corporations provide. The corporations can't control their need to place profits over damage to the biological environment. That's where government comes in.
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Thats why unions exist, so all the workers can negotiate better conditions and more benefits. In a sense this is how most working conditions got improved overtime in most of the western world.

If a corporation damages the environment, then the public should not purchase its products, and then take the corporation to court. If corporations are both liable and risk their market share for such actions, most corporations would stop doing such things.

In the current system, corporations simply bribe politicians, who provide protection. If the goverment wasn't involved at all, it would be up to public opinion. So not only you don't need the goverment, it would be much more effective way of keeping corporations in check.
 
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