What's the difference between a Professional Astrologer and an Amateur

waybread

waybread

Well-known member
Thanks, Inline.

Further, many of the non-astrological professional societies that offer licensing exams are deputized by their state/provincial/national legislatures to do so-- as a requirement for a professional practice. (See my above links to licensing for practising psychologists-- or anyone using the term "psychological" in a job title-- in Arkansas and California.)

In other cases, the jurisdiction sets and administers its own licensing requirements. Professional truck drivers, for example, need to pass a more rigorous driver's license test and pass a physical exam.

Astrologers beware!

I just googled "counselor licensing requirements" and found that the Texas Department of State Health Services licenses professional counselors and requires them to pass an exam. This populous state requires counselors to have a Master's or Ph. D. degree from an accredited university, 48 hours of relevant coursework, 300 (!!) hours of supervised practicum experience, and--wait for it--

After completion of the graduate degree and before application, an applicant must take and pass the National Counselor Exam and the Texas Jurisprudence Exam. After receiving a temporary LPC license from the board, the applicant may begin the supervised post-graduate counseling experience (internship). 3000 clock-hours with at least 1,500 being direct client contact of internship under the supervision of a board-approved supervisor is required. The 3000 clock-hours may not be completed in a time period of less than 18 month.
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https://www.dshs.state.tx.us/counselor/lpc_apply.shtm

This site has links to counselor requirements in all 50 states:
http://www.counselor-license.com/

This is why astrologers in many jurisdictions are advised to inform clients that their services are "for entertainment purposes only"-- even if they are advising clients on stock market investments or devastating emotional problems.

http://www.astrology.co.uk/news/cpr.htm

A sensitive and sensible astrologer in practice would know when to refer a client to a licensed professional.

I might also mention that most of the professional examining/licensing boards and societies also require their practitioners to subscribe to a code of ethics. For example, Texas counselors:
https://www.dshs.state.tx.us/counselor/lpc_ethics.shtm

The professional astrological societies that offer credentials normally also have a code of ethics that they require their members to adopt. Here is one from ISAR (International Society for Astrological Research)
http://www.isarastrology.com/code-of-ethics

I suspect one reason that more astrologers today don't apply for astrology's professional credentials is that most of them require applicants to be able to construct a chart by hand. (That would scare me away!)

But whether the oversight body is a jurisdiction or professional association, their fundamental rationale is to protect clients or patients from ignorant or even unscrupulous practitioners. Of which astrology has had its fair share.
 
Kaiousei no Senshi

Kaiousei no Senshi

Premium Member
waybread said:
I suspect one reason that more astrologers today don't apply for astrology's professional credentials is that most of them require applicants to be able to construct a chart by hand. (That would scare me away!)
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This is actually very spot on. Every now and again there will be flare ups in the community where discussion on certifications comes up. Invariably, the discussion will turn to the "obsession with hand calculation" and whether it's a good idea to continue pushing it or not. The sides are basically split by age; the older astrologers want it to be mandatory because that's how they had to do it. The younger (than 50) astrologers or those newer to the practice want it removed, and many of them do choose to sit out certification because of it.

Apparently the idea of making hand calculations an elective or otherwise optional either falls on deaf ears, gets laughed off stage, or shut down before it can even be discussed. <.<
 
Z

ZadkielsGhost

Banned
Dhundhun

Those who are able to influence others and make money are professionals. It has nothing to do with level of expertise. If you want to know level of expertise, there is no hard and fast guidelines.
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Dhundhun, first let me say it is always so enlightening to see a dedicated astrologer who may have his heritage from the East, it is a nice bridge and a real comfort to know a Vedic astrologer is among us who writes with such great precision and is clear in his English skills. I'm hoping soon to listen to you aboard the Vedic Forum, as if my data is correct, wasn't it John Frawley who studied Vedic astrology to develop his horary style along with Lilly's work?

In talking with many Hindus over the years it is my understanding that since the West through 'outsourcing' has influenced India and altered their culture so radically that where a century ago every family in India had an astrologer just as most in the USA have a family physician. From those I meet today, both Hindu and from India, the word is there is much skepticism in India about astrology's validity and many charlatans are only out for greed and they are preying on India's public giving astrology a bad reputation.

It is my belief that just as in the USA, there are a few in the Medical profession who are obviously at times not ethical. And the facts that so many pharmaceuticals are recalled as they have not been tested enough to warrant the use by the public, causing severe side effects. This is bad medicine, not a great practice in the healing arts.

Likewise just because one makes money from astrology if done unwisely or haphazardly is that true professionalism?

For example, Nostradamus didn't finish the medical training I understand yet was scholarly enough that he served one of the higher Escalon from his studies without the merit of an accepted institution. In his time blood letting and using leeches were the accepted norm in medicine, from before Christ into the 1700s. It was the technique of the day, but to use it now most likely would Not be very professional!

Dhundhun

But you could think of for Natal Western Astrology:
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=====================================

- 1.1. Sun sign astrologers
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Yes, and again yes, this Sun sign astrology that is so prevalent in magazines, newspapers, on a few websites {posted by those whom have never even taken a course in astrology is so unprofessional}. Even if a few very well known astrologers have done this for decades we astrologers understand how generalized and misleading this has been, it is a slap in the face of the art of astrology!

Dhundhun

MANY ASTROLOGERS DO HAVE POWERFUL ANIMAL MAGNETISM, to BLESS (and its OPPOSITE to ...). Many times this helps some one to be successful professional.
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Every astrologer, just like any nativity has their own horoscope, strengths and debilities, experiences transits, and copes with the primary directions they are going to experience.

Is your PARROT astrology post a satire upon those who only practice as if they were a 'copy machine', Saturnized, so status quo, they will Not 'go out on a limb', and can not function in their astrology practice as any more than clone-like from the authors they have studied of which they may reflect?

It is my dream, as I'm certain many astrologers currently practicing in Europe and elsewhere, that within the next few centuries every family should have a competent astrologer to consult who is a credit to the art as may have been the case at one time in India.


And I hope you do not take insult if I have assumed you may be Hindu, I know there are Muslims, Christians, etc., in or from India, all seeking somewhat truth.

ZadkielsGhost
 
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Z

ZadkielsGhost

Banned
Piercethevale

Like I said, most of what Kepler and about every Astrologer you praise, for the greater part, are using techniques that are worthless because they were devised by someone for the sake of defrauding a client and, or, befuddling a critic or rival, or because of mistranslating writings in dead or little known languages, or were concocted by someone that deluded themselves into believing thay had devised some "new technique" or had rediscovered what, they believed to be, a lost technique despite multiple tests of the process could not reproduce one or two random coincidentally accurate or near accurate attempts.

Like I have repeatedly offered so many, many, times: "Demonstrate the veracity of the technique you contest is true and accurate with the verified accurate birth chart of any known historical or recent well known person and I will concede the point on that technique"...Which no one, to date, has yet to have even offered an attempt to try, forget about asking if anyone has ever have attempted, nor any silly notion that someone actually did, and even succeeded.

I have put every astrological technique I utilize to repeated, stringent, testings before I subject anyones natal chart to it that has asked for any astrological advice, or "reading", from me ...and here in my locality, I have a reputation for being the best around and I have had that reputation for over 20 years to this day.
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Piercethevale,

I personally didn't have any trouble with you stating your opinion as it was anti-traditionalist that the moderator removed; but then I'm thick skinned!

But then I don't think you understood the following:

I know of this man whom was from an agricultural community, and attended an agricultural college. He moved into a farm after he married, where his wife complained of the cracks in the walls of the shanty of a home they bought on what would become their great farm. Now this farm had hundreds of acres of land to be cleared, before the modern chain saws used in felling trees of today. This man had four children, the oldest male remained and took over the family farm and the son's father through his knowledge gained from his agricultural background and his college years built a small empire, hiring many men and women to work upon that farm. He had a powerful reputation in his community because of his merits and his integrity. His son who never went to college became dependent upon the parents for guidance. His son not knowing what his father had studied could not keep that farm going in the same magnitude as his father had. Don't you imagine that at the agricultural college his father attended that they possibly taught agricultural techniques and it's history thereby making sound students who might enhance the farming community?

And that man's son like so many sons who didn't quite understand what the original enterprising founder knew eventually lost the family farm to the bank.
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Zadkiel like so many of the Modern era writers either didn't understand the concept of combustion, for he spoke against it in his book. I can see combustion loudly, and I wonder how anyone can miss this but it's just our own observations and opinions from our experiences. So you don't buy it, haven't read enough of the pre 1700 writers and you find them to be a waste of time, it is just an opinion!

Piercethevale

As the tread initiator hasn't even been back to this forum since Dec. 2nd, I'm through with this thread and answering, or responding, to any more posts here other than by the thread initiator herself and she may contact me by private message, if she wishes to, for any reason she might have.
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Yes there are many like you say who don't understand they should engage more and follow through!

But the truth is you just don't like it that some astrologers prefer to dig deeper and are very aware that astrology existed long before 1700 and their work needs to be consulted!


ZadkielsGhost
 
tikana

tikana

Well-known member
i think to be seen as a professional astrologer you need to have a track record. Papers and certification diplomas don't do sh*t for me. there are plenty of professionals in other fields have the papers but have no idea what the h*ll they are talking about.

calculating a chart by hand is not big of a deal. I did that in 1989-1990.. nowdays solar fire does all the work. Then with schools you are dealing with nativity issues - which i cannot stand. I hate it! rectification - that is the area i would love to nail (I nailed a few charts) ... and horary is my thing. otherwise, i could care less about other branches of astrology.

to get the degree you need to learn all the fields. I have no time nor patience.
most people want to know the future anyhow. I do not want to be a professional astrologer.. it is a thankless job.

T
 
JUPITERASC

JUPITERASC

Well-known member
Monk said:
Hi Jupiterasc,

I like Kepler, however i was at the Faculty of Astrological Studies before i was disabled,

link below, very expensive:-

http://www.astrology.org.uk/
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Thanks for directing us to this Monk :smile:

Oxford Summer School

'.......The Faculty’s annual Summer School is one of the world’s best-known astrological events,

attracting students and astrologers from many countries.

The dates for 2015 are Friday 21st-Friday 28th August.

Previous Summer School recordings are available to purchase
- see what's available on the recordings page under the Summer School menu.....'
 
Z

ZadkielsGhost

Banned
Dhundhun

PARROT ASTROLOGER PROFESSION

Let me explain with an example as well. About parrot astrologers. It is profession, because owner of Parrot to attract people and earns using parrot to make living. This will also give examples, what all goes in this profession.


disappearing-250x300.jpg


1. The use of parrot to pull a card from deck is like buying a ticket from Oracle fortune teller machine
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Though I'm Not acquainted with this Parrot approach to astrology, I just wonder was this a joke like a little sarcasm, a satire on all astrologers as we tend to quote famous authorities of renown, parroting if you will?

I'm certain many within the medical profession do the same!

Where does this parrot astrology readings take place?


ZadkielsGhost
 
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JUPITERASC

JUPITERASC

Well-known member
ZadkielsGhost said:
Dhundhun

Though I'm Not acquainted with this Parrot approach to astrology,
I just wonder was this a joke like a little sarcasm,
a satire on all astrologers as we tend to quote famous authorities of renown, parroting if you will.

I'm certain many within the medical profession do the same!

Where does this parrot astrology readings take place?


ZadkielsGhost
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'.....A parrot astrologer/fortune teller typically sits beneath a tree
or by the side of the road where people congregate in numbers.
He has a cage which contains one or two trained parrots.
The tarot like cards are either spread out or stacked in front of him.
They are 27 in number representing the Indian cosmic system.
Each card contains the image of a Hindu deity
and some cards contain images of Buddha or Virgin Mary with Infant Jesus.....'


'.....When a patron sits before the fortune teller, the latter opens the cage and lets the parrot out.
He instructs the parrot to pick a card for the patron.
The parrot walks over to the cards, picks one from the stack or the spread with its beak
and gives it to the astrologer. It then walks back inside its cage.
The astrologer opens the card and based on the image tells the fortune of the patron.
The practice of Parrot astrology is diminishing in Tamil Nadu due to lack of patronage.
In Singapore it is a tourist attraction in Little India along the Serangoon Road.
A variant is practiced in Pakistan.....' source: Wikipedia


Alternatively

ONLINE MYSTIC PARROT http://astrologyfutureeye.com/fortune-tellers/mystic-parrot :smile:
 
Z

ZadkielsGhost

Banned
Tikana

i think to be seen as a professional astrologer you need to have a track record. Papers and certification diplomas don't do sh*t for me. there are plenty of professionals in other fields have the papers but have no idea what the h*ll they are talking about.
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Yes, a track record and courses under your belt. The sad truth is as I'm reviewing an astrology course presently, is the more one studies they eventually will find concepts that they totally disagree with based upon their prior astrological education. I'm certain we all have done this, and certain courses or books we find to be repeating the same mistakes or introducing us to methods we are not willing the accept.

Like these branches of astrology often conflict:

Ancients

Hellenistic

Medieval

Traditional

Modern

Then as Tikana points out, the 'credential element' can be corrupted, as it has been done that certain astrology organizations have compromised their awards of credentials because of a gigantic donations, etc.

I think in addition to serious studies the track record speaks loudly of a true professional.

For example, people I meet through out the community come up to me constantly and tell me there is no way I could have known what I told them in briefly meeting them unless I had done some serious studies.

I'm sure most of you who have done readings, etc., over the years have had times when those you serve get a little bent out of shape because you 'hit a chord' and they just were not too comfortable with your precious insights. For example, I know of one astrologer giving a progression reading had their client walk out during the reading as the analysis scared the client beyond what they could endure.


ZadkielsGhost
 
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dhundhun

dhundhun

Well-known member
If you want to be a professional astrologer, you should be able to check your own horoscope, whether you can be Professional Astrologer or not. It is very simple - If you can't see you own horoscope, why do you want to be a professional astrologer?

Out of my three-four posts in the thread, second was to explain what a Vedic Professional Astrologer knows and third was how a Parrot Astrologer enters into Professional Fortune Telling Business.
 
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JUPITERASC

JUPITERASC

Well-known member
Apartofme said:

I am seriously considering furthering my education in Astrology to the point where I am considered a Professional.
There's no such thing as earning a degree in Astrology,
so what makes someone a certified professional Astrologer and what makes someone an amateur?

What Astrology books can you recommend to me
so I can cross the bridge from amateur to professional?
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Alternatives and options :smile:

'….For many years we have received requests from our customers
who want to learn astrology from an Astrology Vocational School.
We heard you! The Avalon School of Astrology was established and opened its door in 2002.
It is a Vocational astrology school licensed by the State of Florida.
It is also a non for profit educational school approved by the IRS 501 (c) 3 status.
All donations to Avalon are tax deductible.
The Avalon School of Astrology now has several graduates.
Our next graduating class of students enrolled in the PAC (Professional Astrologer Certificate)
apprenticeship program will be graduating in 17 January 2015.....'


Our second PAC apprenticeship program will start 27 April 2015.
We also have an upcoming Horary course and a Medical Astrology course.
We are now accepting new students for these courses and you can enrol online
or by calling Avalon. Here are the details:


AGY157: Classical Horary and Electional Astrology by Lee Lehman:
Starting March 5, 2015: A 10-week course in Classical Horary and Electional Astrology by Lee Lehman.
Lee is highly respected for her expertise in various areas of classical astrology,
including horary and medical astrology.
Lee has written articles and books, and speaks at international conferences,
and receives consistently high praise for her exceptional understanding,
wisdom, and ability to teach these methods.
Anyone who knows the basic language of astrology can attend this class.
We are now accepting enrollments or anyone who wants to sign up for this course.
Here is the link: http://www.avalonastrology.com/Registeragy157.htm




PAC VIBRATIONAL ASTROLOGY APPRENTICESHIP PROGRAM WITH DAVID COCHRANE:
Starting April 27, 2015: This is a 3-year program
that trains you to be a professional astrologer using the system of vibrational astrology that David has developed.
Vibrational astrology is a variation of harmonic astrology
and David is recognized as one of world's experts in this system of astrology.
Here is the link to the info: http://www.avalonastrology.com/Calendar2015.htm



AGY280: Medical Astrology by Lee Lehman: Starting June 1, 2015:
A 10-week course that explains how astrologers have traditionally applied astrology for analyzing health and illness.
An example of a few topics are: fundamental concepts of classical medical astrology,
likely periods of illness, and methods for answering medical electional questions.
You will learn practical techniques
and learn about examples of how the ideas are applied,
as well as the historical sources of these ideas.
Anyone with an understanding of the basic language of astrology can enroll in this course.
Here is the link to the info: http://www.avalonastrology.com/Registeragy280.htm
 
tikana

tikana

Well-known member
Hi ZadkielsGhost,

QUOTE=ZadkielsGhost;591219]Tikana





Yes, a track record and courses under your belt. The sad truth is as I'm reviewing an astrology course presently, is the more one studies they eventually will find concepts that they totally disagree with based upon their prior astrological education. I'm certain we all have done this, and certain courses or books we find to be repeating the same mistakes or introducing us to methods we are not willing the accept.


Yepp i hear ya! I have been talking in private with a few ppl from this forum about 3 areas that i am most concerned about Horary, Rectification and Prediction. The rest i could care less .. nativity eh whatever

Like these branches of astrology often conflict:

Ancients

Hellenistic

Medieval

Traditional

Modern


Can i disagree with you on this pretty please?

I have tested this on horaries.

I used purely modern techniques without mixing into traditional and pure traditional. The way i look is you cannot mix those 2 .. Ivy did it Raphael did it.. Anthony Louis *his actually got me into horary to begin with* with modern planets you have to treat them as fixed stars. nothing more. If you use pure traditional you should come up with the same answer as using traditional. There is one horary i encountered that problem with and quite frankly I stil cannot figure out why answer fluctuated. It left a few ppl baffled .. other than that.. i wouldnt mix trad and modern esp when it comes to modern.

I dont know trad forecasting so i stick with modern. and if you know how to do profection PM me.. i need answers to a few questions.




Then as Tikana points out, the 'credential element' can be corrupted, as it has been done that certain astrology organizations have compromised their awards of credentials because of a gigantic donations, etc.

Thing is and it makes me very suspecious when ppl claim they have 20 or 40 years of experience. years dont matter the quality of what you are learning does. take Tsmall as an example i cannot remember how she came on the board .. but i have been looking with her horary charts and everything 100% traditional .. i'd say i'd go to her cause i know trad horary works like nails Same goes for Dirius. I dont mix trad and modern UNLESS there is a tight conj between post saturn planets to an angle or house or planet in question. someone modern ivy's student looked at one chart i was like it is screaming NO to me traditionally .. modern was not showiung anything promising either but the way the person read it it was a pssitive answer. In reality It was NEGATIVE. Trad worked and modern worked so it depends who read them! We are testing a few short timed horaries and i will know ir did know the answer ..

I think in addition to serious studies the track record speaks loudly of a true professional.

For example, people I meet through out the community come up to me constantly and tell me there is no way I could have known what I told them in briefly meeting them unless I had done some serious studies.

i just sit back and run a horary in the background and causually drop an answer LOL then i hear about it .. how did you know!


I'm sure most of you who have done readings, etc., over the years have had times when those you serve get a little bent out of shape because you 'hit a chord' and they just were not too comfortable with your precious insights. For example, I know of one astrologer giving a progression reading had their client walk out during the reading as the analysis scared the client beyond what they could endure.


** HA! that's what got me into astrology ..a PROFESSIONAL astrologer did that to me.. i was told that i was gonna kill someone and run away from home when i was like 13 years old.. i was like WTF are you smoking? As i began to dig into astrology i realize that my time of birth is totally unknwon so whatever the hell the birth time was the chart was ran on was way off! i was a kid left me in tears .. there was something about alchoholism .. bunch of BS basically.. i dont even drink lol low alc tolerance! i get drunk off niquil for god sake! ****

ZadkielsGhost[/QUOTE]
 
Z

ZadkielsGhost

Banned
Tikana

ZadKielsGhost Like these branches of astrology often conflict:

Ancients

Hellenistic

Medieval

Traditional

Modern


Can i disagree with you on this pretty please?

I have tested this on horaries.

I used purely modern techniques without mixing into traditional and pure traditional. The way i look is you cannot mix those 2 .. Ivy did it Raphael did it.. Anthony Louis *his actually got me into horary to begin with* with modern planets you have to treat them as fixed stars. nothing more. If you use pure traditional you should come up with the same answer as using traditional. There is one horary i encountered that problem with and quite frankly I stil cannot figure out why answer fluctuated. It left a few ppl baffled .. other than that.. i wouldnt mix trad and modern esp when it comes to modern.
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Well you can mix the two as Deborah Houlding does within her horary course that is a powerful tool:

http://www.skyscript.co.uk/horary_intro.html

Houlding uses Outers within this course though unlike the Moderns they Do Not rule houses nor signs, if I remember correctly in studying this course.

If my data is correct, Louis started out studying everything, and like almost everyone else he had gotten confused with methodologies and in understanding concepts, along with Moderns included, but since then he has gone more toward Traditionalism.

Tikana
I dont know trad forecasting so i stick with modern. and if you know how to do profection PM me.. i need answers to a few questions.
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As so many appear not to have read the very well educated though with a zeal that may rival yours, Tikana, I'd suggest every seeker read William Ramesey. You will most likely choke for a while as he will bring down hell, fire, and brimstone on those who dare mock the art in the first part of his book with his sermons on those scoffing the art in his day.

http://www.skyscript.co.uk/birchfield.html

This Forum may enlighten you with others reading Ramesey:

http://starsandstones.wordpress.com...aspects-of-the-moon-to-the-other-six-planets/

Tikana, what you ask like any area is too deep without you first studying this book:

http://www.amazon.com/Astrologia-Restaurata-Astrology-William-Ramesey/dp/1162632259

Or you may download from these ebooks, Ramesey's fine work if you are not yet ready to purchase:

http://www.skyscript.co.uk/texts.html

There is nothing like wading into Ramesey and then one may realize that Vivian E. Robson's account of Election Astrology 1937, taken from Ramesey, is not truly understood until one reads both Ramesey and his sources upon which he borrowed.


ZadkielsGhost



 
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tikana

tikana

Well-known member
ZadkielsGhost said:
Tikana

Well you can mix the two as Deborah Houlding does within her horary course that is a powerful tool:

http://www.skyscript.co.uk/horary_intro.html

Houlding uses Outers within this course though unlike the Moderns they Do Not rule houses nor signs, if I remember correctly in studying this course.

NA! Fail! Why? ancients up to 18thish century lived and worked with horaries without problems before post saturn planets were discovered, that means I CAN LIVE WITHOUT OUTERS AS WELL!



If my data is correct, Louis started out studying everything, and like almost everyone else he had gotten confused with methodologies and in understanding concepts, along with Moderns included, but since then he has gone more toward Traditionalism.

Anthony louis pretty much mixed both as well.


Tikana



As so many appear not to have read the very well educated though with a zeal that may rival yours, Tikana, I'd suggest every seeker read William Ramesey. You will most likely choke for a while as he will bring down hell, fire, and brimstone on those who dare mock the art in the first part of his book with his sermons on those scoffing the art in his day.

why the eff would i be interested in Ramesey WHEN I AM HOLDING in my hands Guido Bonnatti's original 3 manuscripts in LATIN! NOT TRANSLATED versions! NEXT argument!


http://www.skyscript.co.uk/birchfield.html

This Forum may enlighten you with others reading Ramesey:

http://starsandstones.wordpress.com...aspects-of-the-moon-to-the-other-six-planets/

Tikana, what you ask like any area is too deep without you first studying this book:

you can keep Ramsey to yourself! Not interested!

http://www.amazon.com/Astrologia-Restaurata-Astrology-William-Ramesey/dp/1162632259

Or you may download from these ebooks, Ramesey's fine work if you are not yet ready to purchase:

http://www.skyscript.co.uk/texts.html

There is nothing like wading into Ramesey and then one may realize that Vivian E. Robson's account of Election Astrology 1937, taken from Ramesey, is not truly understood until one reads both Ramesey and his sources upon which he borrowed.


ZadkielsGhost
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when you will bring on 100% Traditional Horary, then we will talk, ja?
i have close to 5 gigs of books on my HD just dealing with astrology from trad to Aztec to Nordic astrology.. if you dont believe me, ask Tsmall

and by the way stop this bs, Clinton Soule. we all know it is you!
 
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