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  #4201  
Unread 07-10-2019, 10:48 PM
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Re: Random Thoughts, strictly Text

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Originally Posted by david starling View Post
Prove it!
The reason why i say God (i refuse to put this word in capitals) doesn't exist...is because, there is only supposed to be ONE God. So why so many different religions with different beliefs/different gods ?
why is god supposed to be white, when there is a multitude of colors/cultures ?
Why is god supposed to be male when we have males/females ?
Why why why why why ?

I got a slap on the back of the head from my religious teacher at primary school for asking these kinds of questions Because she obviously didnt know the answer herself.

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  #4202  
Unread 07-10-2019, 10:48 PM
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The Good Old Days (GOD) are usually not as good as we like to remember them.
This is so true. I try to remind myself that right now I’ll be wishing I was here. Nice word play tho.
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  #4203  
Unread 07-10-2019, 10:50 PM
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Pooh Spice!
Pooh curry lololololololol
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  #4204  
Unread 07-10-2019, 10:50 PM
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Re: Random Thoughts, strictly Text

I always thought GOD meant Government Of Destruction
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  #4205  
Unread 07-10-2019, 10:51 PM
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Originally Posted by Chrysalis View Post
The reason why i say God (i refuse to put this word in capitals) doesn't exist...is because, there is only supposed to be ONE God. So why so many different religions with different beliefs/different gods ?
why is god supposed to be white, when there is a multitude of colors/cultures ?
Why is god supposed to be male when we have males/females ?
Why why why why why ?

I got a slap on the back of the head from my religious teacher at primary school for asking these kinds of questions Because she obviously didnt know the answer herself.
Polytheism gets no respect these days.
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  #4206  
Unread 07-10-2019, 10:53 PM
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Re: Random Thoughts, strictly Text

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Polytheism gets no respect these days.
You can't answer my questions though can you David ?
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  #4207  
Unread 07-10-2019, 10:56 PM
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I always thought GOD meant Government Of Destruction
Looked it up. Good Old Days tops the list of 72. Government of Destruction doesn't appear at all--the Government must have destroyed that one and censored it.
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  #4208  
Unread 07-10-2019, 10:57 PM
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You can't answer my questions though can you David ?
God forbids me from answering.
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  #4209  
Unread 07-10-2019, 11:06 PM
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Re: Random Thoughts, strictly Text

A quote I found tonight I really liked was ‘Hollywood didn’t kill Marilyn Monroe. The Monroe’s killed Hollywood.’

At first it seems a bit misogynistic but actually it’s true because Hollywood was full of these types of men and it’s especially relevant with the recent Weinstein scandal. Marilyn Monroe was hated by Hollywood but the public loved her, and she wasn’t the first woman to make her own production company, but as a Lilithian, she fought her ground against the resentment she faced and became in her death a spiritual emblem. She is bigger than Hollywood!
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  #4210  
Unread 07-10-2019, 11:07 PM
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George Carlin calls Him the "invisible man in the sky".
Since He's invisible, no one knows what he looks like.
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  #4211  
Unread 07-10-2019, 11:11 PM
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Re: Random Thoughts, strictly Text

I don't know how anyone can still assume, there is a male being in the sky sitting on a cloud, looking down on us called god.

To me it doesn't make any rational sense.

I personally think we are all being controlled by
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  #4212  
Unread 07-10-2019, 11:14 PM
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Re: Random Thoughts, strictly Text

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If you're a reasonable person, you have LOGICAL CONCLUSIONS and EVIDENCE for why you believe in something. Faith is assuming you know something without evidence. There's nothing reasonable about it. It's anti-thinking. And as I said before, those who rely on faith will have to resort violence because they can't prove to others the validity of their beliefs.

You know the islam extremists? They have faith in whatever nonsense they believe. That by blowing themselves along with other people they think they'll be rewarded in the afterlife. That's faith at its worse. evil evil evil
Evidence is an after the fact proof, done by experimenting with the hypothesis provided by a logical conclusion. A logical conclusion is just an observation that can seem valid, without being so. The theory of telegony had logical conclusions, and minor evidence and turned out to be false. Thus, it wasn't very intelligent, was it? It still seemed reasonable to the individuals that developed the theory.

Religion is based on conclusions about the nature of our existance for which we have still found no reasoning at all (despite the idea that our existance has no purpose), which I agree that may not lead to satisfactory results at the end of the day, but just like any scientifical hypothesis, it works until someone can disprove it: for most of human theory, Aristotle's model of the universe (which was based on logical conclusions) was the prevailing theorem, until it was disproven by Galileo's model, which he in turned was displaced by Einstein's theory of relativity.

As for the idea of violence, this is an attriubte of human life regardless of religion, but inherent to any kind of ideology. A number of atheist states such as North Korea, the Soviet Union, China, who were not religious commited atrocities around the world, imposing their views. But their views were based on logical conclusions.
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Having faith in a God that has you believe to have so much power that you can't even prove to yourself is very different from a conviction regarding a scientific theory. To believe that an invisible man will either send you to heaven or hell for not following his 10 commandments that you cannot argue against or find any rational reasons for why you should follow them is just dumb. String theory actually proposes some good reasons for why it could possibly be true.
That is a dogmatic aspect of religion, which is based on rules about how to practice your faith. String theory proposes reasons as to why it may be true, but all we have is an incomplete mathematical model that has not shown it to be true. Thus, you are subjugating reasons to the idea that something must be true because you really believe in it.

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No, it actually is unreasonable, illogical, and just stupid.

If you are a man of reason, you dispense with religion. People of reason are not divided on subjects like this because all of them look at the evidence and don't turn to faith when they can't explain something.

To believe that something that didn't exist, that something outside of existence, literally nothing, created something. How does something come from nothing? That's illogical.

And on top of it, Gods that the Christians or Muslims describe is a God that makes no sense if he actually did create the universe. Homosexuality is wrong, and these God's provide no good reasons for why it's wrong.

The cosmos created by a grand designer? What would a cosmos be like with a bad design? There is no such thing. A cosmos that didn't make logical sense and contradicted itself couldn't exist. Our sense of order comes from observing reality for what it is.
The most renowned men on earth. From the ancient greek phylosophers, to the reinassance thinkers, to the founding fathers of the U.S, have been religious in nature. A number of sicentists of our modern age are too. Somehow you deminish them by calling them stupid, in contrast to whom? The most renowned atheist on earth have been responsible for most atrocities against human kind. So calling them stupid, doesn't seem very logical.


You said a cosmos that did not operate under logical laws wouldn't be able to exist. So first you are making assumptions under your own personal hypothesis, you are not providing evidence of what you said, but you are sure thats the case? So you have faith such universe wouldn't be able to exist out of randomness?

As for the question on the issue of homosexuality, that has to do with historical context. The bible was written by humans. Homosexuality was seen as detrimental to the survival of a society, because tribes and nations had to keep a high birth rate (child mortality was high) in order for the society to survive, thus the reason why most ancient societies view homosexuality as a problem. The ancient nations that did not suffer this problem, given their high number populations (such as the roman republic) didn't need to hold this view. But this is a socio-political issue of ancient time, not religious in nature. Remember that for ancient societies, religion and politics tended to blend.
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  #4213  
Unread 07-10-2019, 11:15 PM
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Originally Posted by Chrysalis View Post
I don't know how anyone can still assume, there is a male being in the sky sitting on a cloud, looking down on us called god.

To me it doesn't make any rational sense.

I personally think we are all being controlled by
Zeus/Jupiter is the role model for the prevailing version of what God looks like. Maybe Zeupiter is an alien!
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  #4214  
Unread 07-10-2019, 11:16 PM
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Re: Random Thoughts, strictly Text

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Originally Posted by Chrysalis View Post
I don't know how anyone can still assume, there is a male being in the sky sitting on a cloud, looking down on us called god.

To me it doesn't make any rational sense.

I personally think we are all being controlled by

So you believe beings we can't see, that came from above the atmosphere, dictate our daily lives.
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  #4215  
Unread 07-10-2019, 11:19 PM
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So you believe beings we can't see, that came from above the atmosphere, dictate our daily lives.
God is a being we can't see, who dwells in the upper atmosphere.
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  #4216  
Unread 07-10-2019, 11:19 PM
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Re: Random Thoughts, strictly Text

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So you believe beings we can't see, that came from above the atmosphere, dictate our daily lives.
Well that's what this supposed "GOD" is supposed to be like anyway....so yeh.
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  #4217  
Unread 07-10-2019, 11:20 PM
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Re: Random Thoughts, strictly Text

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God is a being we can't see, who dwells in the upper atmosphere.
Ha ha ha!...great minds think alike. JINX
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  #4218  
Unread 07-10-2019, 11:28 PM
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Re: Random Thoughts, strictly Text

Ive noticed a fair few times now during my AW time frame, that MAINLY mercury transits direct/retrograde have an effect on this forum/even thread.

I find it quite alarming that the zoolog aliens can control us like this.
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  #4219  
Unread 07-10-2019, 11:33 PM
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Re: Random Thoughts, strictly Text

History was wrote by conquerors.
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  #4220  
Unread 07-10-2019, 11:44 PM
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Re: Random Thoughts, strictly Text

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Evidence is an after the fact proof, done by experimenting with the hypothesis provided by a logical conclusion.
No evidence is "the available body of facts or information indicating whether a belief or proposition is true or valid". It's not after, evidence happens before. Evidence is before you've connected the dots.

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A logical conclusion is just an observation that can seem valid, without being so. The theory of telegony had logical conclusions, and minor evidence and turned out to be false. Thus, it wasn't very intelligent, was it? It still seemed reasonable to the individuals that developed the theory.
Yes, that is the process of thinking and learning. We are not omniscient. Logic is the process of identifying what is and what isn't.

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Religion is based on conclusions about the nature of our existance for which we have still found no reasoning at all (despite the idea that our existance has no purpose), which I agree that may not lead to satisfactory results at the end of the day, but just like any scientifical hypothesis, it works until someone can disprove it: for most of human theory, Aristotle's model of the universe (which was based on logical conclusions) was the prevailing theorem, until it was disproven by Galileo's model, which he in turned was displaced by Einstein's theory of relativity.
So Religion is correct and good to follow because you think we haven't disproved religious belief?

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Originally Posted by Dirius View Post
As for the idea of violence, this is an attriubte of human life regardless of religion, but inherent to any kind of ideology. A number of atheist states such as North Korea, the Soviet Union, China, who were not religious commited atrocities around the world, imposing their views. But their views were based on logical conclusions.
If two rational people are debating each other, they will be able to come to a conclusion because they can provide logical reasons to each other for the validity of their idea. The idea that is most logical and makes most sense will be the idea that both people will go along with.

If you have two mystics, who claim ideas without any logical reasons, they will have no way of showing each other how they are correct. Therefore, if they are to reach a decision about what to do, they'll resort to violence to force one to obey the other.

Faith goes hand and hand with force.

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Originally Posted by Dirius View Post
That is a dogmatic aspect of religion, which is based on rules about how to practice your faith. String theory proposes reasons as to why it may be true, but all we have is an incomplete mathematical model that has not shown it to be true. Thus, you are subjugating reasons to the idea that something must be true because you really believe in it.
So you think that we should just have faith in whatever we want.

I have faith I'll fly to the moon without a jet pack. Look at me go

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Originally Posted by Dirius View Post
The most renowned men on earth. From the ancient greek phylosophers, to the reinassance thinkers, to the founding fathers of the U.S, have been religious in nature. A number of sicentists of our modern age are too. Somehow you deminish them by calling them stupid, in contrast to whom? The most renowned atheist on earth have been responsible for most atrocities against human kind. So calling them stupid, doesn't seem very logical.
Oh I see, a smart person is religious therefore religion must be good. That's a logical fallacy you know. Just because an authority figure believes something to be true doesn't make it true.

Not to mention, these thinkers were a product of their times. They were religious because that was the norm. And if they ever expressed non-religious ideas, I don't think that would be good for them.

Besides, there are plenty of smart people who aren't religious too. I could name plenty, but I don't because that's not a valid argument. You decide the validity of religion by looking at the fact. And the fact is that religion is a bunch of ********.

The most renowned atheist has committed the greatest atrocities, so what you're saying is that atheism is bad because a bad person is an atheist. Another logical fallacy.


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You said a cosmos that did not operate under logical laws wouldn't be able to exist. So first you are making assumptions under your own personal hypothesis, you are not providing evidence of what you said, but you are sure thats the case? So you have faith such universe wouldn't be able to exist out of randomness?
A random universe without any laws or a universe that contradicted itself could not exist. Existence is non-contradictory and I know that from observing existence. Things are what they are and cannot be other things. Besides, the idea of a perfectly designed universe implies that a creator created the universe. What makes you think a creator created the universe?

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As for the question on the issue of homosexuality, that has to do with historical context. The bible was written by humans. Homosexuality was seen as detrimental to the survival of a society, because tribes and nations had to keep a high birth rate (child mortality was high) in order for the society to survive, thus the reason why most ancient societies view homosexuality as a problem. The ancient nations that did not suffer this problem, given their high number populations (such as the roman republic) didn't need to hold this view. But this is a socio-political issue of ancient time, not religious in nature. Remember that for ancient societies, religion and politics tended to blend.
Well it says in the bible that it's wrong. So maybe we should just dispense with the bible if it's not actually God's words and it's just a product of the times. Seems pretty ridiculous to me that an all-powerful being can't even get his rules and expectations under control. How irresponsible. Or maybe, he just doesn't exist and people are writing ********. The latter makes more sense.
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  #4221  
Unread 07-10-2019, 11:53 PM
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Looking at the state of human existence, how could God be entirely benevolent AND all powerful? Would you let your child fall off a cliff when you could have prevented this from happening, and then excuse your inaction with the explanation that you had to respect your child's "free will"? I think not.
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Unread 07-11-2019, 12:00 AM
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Re: Random Thoughts, strictly Text

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  #4223  
Unread 07-11-2019, 12:01 AM
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Re: Random Thoughts, strictly Text

I was watching a documentary the other day about children who was born with FOP disease https://ghr.nlm.nih.gov/condition/fi...ns-progressiva and i was thinking IF there was a god, how could he allow this ?

Im sorry but to me it all boils down to astrology, with FOP disease, my mind kept going to saturn, with regards to bones....must be too much saturn in their chart...very sad.

This was the video i watched ....https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9LhDWhpzLtE
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  #4224  
Unread 07-11-2019, 12:21 AM
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Re: Random Thoughts, strictly Text

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No evidence is "the available body of facts or information indicating whether a belief or proposition is true or valid". It's not after, evidence happens before. Evidence is before you've connected the dots.
Exactly, evidence supports whether a hypothesis is valid or not, thus it comes after the hypothesis has been done, and thus proves it. There is a hypothesis that life exists outside earth, but no direct evidence has been linked for it still. There is evidence that life can exist under certain conditions, but using it to prove the hypothesis at hand is not direct evidence related to the subject. What you have at this point is a logical conclusion that if there is evidence that supports the latter, then there must be evidence to support the former. The evidence that would prove the existance of life outside the conditions of earth, would thus come after (like fining evidence of life outside earth).

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Originally Posted by AppLeo View Post
Yes, that is the process of thinking and learning. We are not omniscient. Logic is the process of identifying what is and what isn't.
You are asserting that it is logical to assume something to be true, because (in your persepective) it can lead you to a valid theory, despite having no evidence of that being a possibility aside from your conjecture, and while encountering wrong or invalid variables along the way, because it can eventually lead you to supporting evidence that may validate your theory.

You just described how belief in religion works, and how religious thinkers have evolved their thought along the centuries.

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So Religion is correct and good to follow because you think we haven't disproved religious belief?
Religion is correct to follow, if the individual so chooses to. Whether it is good or not, is a matter of individual perspective. A lot of people that follow atheism have done much more harm than good for society, an example being socialism.

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Originally Posted by AppLeo View Post
If two rational people are debating each other, they will be able to come to a conclusion because they can provide logical reasons to each other for the validity of their idea. The idea that is most logical and makes most sense will be the idea that both people will go along with.

If you have two mystics, who claim ideas without any logical reasons, they will have no way of showing each other how they are correct. Therefore, if they are to reach a decision about what to do, they'll resort to violence to force one to obey the other.

Faith goes hand and hand with force.
Nazism and communism were both prevailing similar atheist theories that went to war with each other, and tried to subjugate each other based on logical assumptions, and what they found to be reasonable.

Now days, you can see antifa, or late-term abortionist harming others. They are not very religious are they? but they are pretty violent, specially when it comes to their ideology.

And religion has nothing to do with it. More harm has been done to humanity by atheists within a century, than by all religious quarrels over human history. Blaming religion for the evils of the world, is a very hitchens/dawkins perspective used to sell books.

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Originally Posted by AppLeo View Post
So you think that we should just have faith in whatever we want.

I have faith I'll fly to the moon without a jet pack. Look at me go
You don't have the ability to fly naturally without the aid of machines. Thus your assertion is easily disproven. On the other hand, if someone tells you they have faith there is an afterlife, you can't disprove their assertion. That is the diference.

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Originally Posted by AppLeo View Post
Oh I see, a smart person is religious therefore religion must be good. That's a logical fallacy you know. Just because an authority figure believes something to be true doesn't make it true.

Not to mention, these thinkers were a product of their times. They were religious because that was the norm. And if they ever expressed non-religious ideas, I don't think that would be good for them.

Besides, there are plenty of smart people who aren't religious too. I could name plenty, but I don't because that's not a valid argument. You decide the validity of religion by looking at the fact. And the fact is that religion is a bunch of ********.

The most renowned atheist has committed the greatest atrocities, so what you're saying is that atheism is bad because a bad person is an atheist. Another logical fallacy.
What I'm saying is that individuals who have made their mark on the history of earth, and contributed to humanity, have recognisible achievements, etc., are being called "stupid" by a young person with no type of achievements who is simply repeating the ideals of others. I just find it a bit unsettling, if not amusing.

Actually most of them went against religious dogma, or advocated for reforms (such as Thomas Jefferson). They still were facinated by religion. Einstein called "God" the biggest mistery in human life. He considered himself an agnostic, a term which you seem to disregard also.

What I'm saying is that, atheism can lead you through the same dark path that disregards human life, just like religion or any political ideology. And if we go by the numbers, it seems to have had a much harsher impact within a much smaller time frame than religion has.

I've never heard of a religious person being for late-term abortions (meaning, the murder of a fully formed viable baby).

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Originally Posted by AppLeo View Post
A random universe without any laws or a universe that contradicted itself could not exist. Existence is non-contradictory and I know that from observing existence. Things are what they are and cannot be other things. Besides, the idea of a perfectly designed universe implies that a creator created the universe. What makes you think a creator created the universe?

Well it says in the bible that it's wrong. So maybe we should just dispense with the bible if it's not actually God's words and it's just a product of the times. Seems pretty ridiculous to me that an all-powerful being can't even get his rules and expectations under control. How irresponsible. Or maybe, he just doesn't exist and people are writing ********. The latter makes more sense.
You are asserting it can't exist, thus you are implying that any universe that comes into existance must then, be perfect and subject to the same laws as our existent universe. You are not providing any evidence for the matter. Also supporting evidence of quantum particles shows that not everything inside our universe behaves according to the laws of science.

So you pretty much have faith in what you say its true?

As for the bible, you can disregard it if you want. We can talk about religious dogma if you choose, but there is a diference in discussing the validity of the belief in the exisance of God, or Gods or something of the life, with the rules of individual religions.
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Last edited by Dirius; 07-11-2019 at 12:24 AM.
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  #4225  
Unread 07-11-2019, 12:43 AM
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Re: Random Thoughts, strictly Text

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Nazism and communism were both prevailing similar atheist theories that went to war with each other, and tried to subjugate each other based on logical assumptions, and what they found to be reasonable.
Atheism isn't nazism or communism. Not sure why you're bringing those into this conversation.

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Now days, you can see antifa, or late-term abortionist harming others. They are not very religious are they? but they are pretty violent, specially when it comes to their ideology.
They're just as mystical and stupid as the religious nut bags on the right. Like the islamic extremist or the crusade wars.

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Originally Posted by Dirius View Post
And religion has nothing to do with it. More harm has been done to humanity by atheists within a century, than by all religious quarrels over human history. Blaming religion for the evils of the world, is a very hitchens/dawkins perspective used to sell books.
Religion and communism have done evil to the world because they're both irrational and evil. You like to blame communism for the evils of the world, and ultimately atheism for the evils of the world, so I don't see why you have a problem.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dirius View Post
You don't have the ability to fly naturally without the aid of machines. Thus your assertion is easily disproven. On the other hand, if someone tells you they have faith there is an afterlife, you can't disprove their assertion. That is the difference.
You're never called upon to prove a negative. That's a logical fallacy. Appeal to ignorance. There is no reason to believe that there is an afterlife because there is no evidence of an afterlife.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dirius View Post
What I'm saying is that individuals who have made their mark on the history of earth, and contributed to humanity, have recognisible achievements, etc., are being called "stupid" by a young person with no type of achievements who is simply repeating the ideals of others. I just find it a bit unsettling, if not amusing.
Hmm ad hominem maybe??? I have no achievements so that makes me wrong???

The achievements that these men have made were because the compartmentalized their religious views from science. If they took things on faith and didn't follow their reason, and were purely religious they wouldn't have achieved anything.

Allow me to clarify, I'm not saying a person is completely stupid for being religious. I'm saying that the moment you practice or voice religious beliefs you are being stupid.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dirius View Post
Actually most of them went against religious dogma, or advocated for reforms (such as Thomas Jefferson). They still were facinated by religion. Einstein called "God" the biggest mistery in human life. He considered himself an agnostic, a term which you seem to disregard also.
I don't really care what Einstein thinks philosophically. Or what anyone thinks philosophically unless they're actually a philosopher. Einstein was also a socialist and left-leaning as well. Does that mean socialism is right? No. He's a math genius but not worth listening to for anything else.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dirius View Post
What I'm saying is that, atheism can lead you through the same dark path that disregards human life, just like religion or any political ideology. And if we go by the numbers, it seems to have had a much harsher impact within a much smaller time frame than religion has.
Not true. Slippery slope if you ask me. Atheism is the denial of a God[s]. Whether or not that puts someone on a dark path is indicated by many many other factors.

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Originally Posted by Dirius View Post
I've never heard of a religious person being for late-term abortions (meaning, the murder of a fully formed viable baby).
Not discussing the abortion debate.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dirius View Post
You are asserting it can't exist, thus you are implying that any universe that comes into existance must then, be perfect and subject to the same laws as our existent universe. You are not providing any evidence for the matter. Also supporting evidence of quantum particles shows that not everything inside our universe behaves according to the laws of science.
How does something exist if it contradicts itself? How can up also be down? How can something be hot and cold at the same time. There is no such thing. That cannot exist. An existence that breaks its own laws is an existence that cannot be. Which means that there is no creator making existence a perfect design. Our sense of order and design comes from observing existence.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Dirius View Post
As for the bible, you can disregard it if you want. We can talk about religious dogma if you choose, but there is a diference in discussing the validity of the belief in the exisance of God, or Gods or something of the life, with the rules of individual religions.
The belief in the existence of God isn't valid, bible or no bible.
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Last edited by AppLeo; 07-11-2019 at 12:46 AM.
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