Reverse Lot of Eros

Howdy, I had intended to write in a different thread this evening/morning [it's somewhat past 1 am here] in the mundane forum but it can wait.
hit the post button instead of the preview button about half way finished with writing this post and i meant to change the title before I posted this new thread. This isn't actually about reversing the formula but rather substituting the Part of Fortune for the Part of Soul in the formula for the Hermetic Lot of Eros.
I apologize for any confusion but once the first post of a thread has been posted you can't change the title of it.

I have been wanting to approach some of the hypothetical Parts formulae, that is , those formulae that switch the positions of what is found in the Significator with whatever is found at the Trigger and i know that Phoenix Venus has been dying to get at the unknowns for Uranus and Pluto that would complete the pattern of order for the Hermetic Lots. Some Astrologer figured out the unknown for Neptune and christened it the Part of Imprisonment, which I have found to be one of the more profound Parts of them all as to the keen understand given by the title for the Part as it represents symbolically, That which you cannot embrace or approach but seems like it could surely be utilized in your life.

I 'm going to feel a bit guilty for doing this as I had given Phoenix V. a bit of flak for attempting any unknowns based on the Hermetic Lots before the more traditional Arabic Parts and the trans-Saturnian Parts that use the same formula as the Arabic but for the Planets beyond Saturn have all been determined to have been titled appropriately or a suitable title has been found for it and there is a satisfactory number of members in consensus.

So...getting back to the reason for this thread, monkeying with the formula for the Part of Eros.
It occurred to me... as I have my own personal natal Parts listed on a few sheets of paper attached directly in front of me and my computer and the Part of Eros is eye level right dead center from where I sit... and lost in thought for a few moments I focus my eyes, as they need to be after I've been rummaging around in my mind awhile , and I'm looking at the formula for the Part of Eros and thinking about how Phoenix Venus and I made a composite of our natal charts as we have been considering doing some writing together, as co-authors, for a book for publication and our composite Part of Spiritual Service came up the same sign and degree as my Hermetic Lot of Eros.

...and I'm thinking about how the Lot of Eros represents those that you seek out to be your dharma buddies, you spiritual posse, so to speak and thinking as to what Phoenix and I concluded about the difference between the Part of Soul and the Part of Fortune in that the Part of Soul is oriented to what your own soul deems that it needs to act upon or think or feel about whatever is symbolically given for that degree but the Part of Fortune is what the greater Christ, or Krishna, Consciousness knows you need to do in action, or orient yourself mentally or emotionally to.

So as The Part of Eros has the Part of Soul as the Trigger and Venus as the Significator the substitution of the Part of Fortune as the Trigger in the formula can only be producing symbolically those that the greater Christ, or Krishna, Consciousness knows you need to seek out for a team for the important spiritual endeavors.

What I got for my natal chart using this other formula is 07* Cancer 17' 27" and that happens to be the composite Part of Eros for Phoenix Venus and myself and it also happens to be the same sign as the Part of Mother and Family derived from the Yeshu'a natal chart.

Yeshu'a's Hermetic Lot of Eros happens to be the same sign and degree as my M.C. and Part of Fortune. His Part of Fortune is in the same sign and degree as my Part of Spiritual Service....


...and Phoenix Venus wrote a post today in the thread about making composite charts with the chart of Yeshu'a that is just as 'rad'...


Not to mention that about a couple of weeks after she first entered the Sabian Forum curious and wanting to learn more about the Sabian Symbols our mutual composite chart cast for dates beginning around the last week of May 2013, and on, have the M.C. and Pluto in the first degree of Libra and it was there for nearly a year, as the natal composite progressed chart shows the M.C. just recently went to the second degree of Libra.... as Yeshu'a has the first degree for an Asc. and his natal Pluto for those of you unfamiliar or new to what is going on here....



it's all just so reinforcing ...talk about a "Mandate"!

Excellent theory, ptv.... very perceptive...

You know im not mad that you warned me against looking into those parts... you saved me from many long hours slaving over the comp, turning all gobbledegook, hair matted to head with chicken grease..... with your sweeping analysis... (that is, if this theory can be applied to the other formulae that utilize pos/pof as well... and i think it can.... as we shall see)

You know its funny that you use Venus parts to showcase this theory and especially interesting that you mention the reverse of eros (we titled it psyche....) because...

I have a very interesting dynamic going on in my charts regarding these formulae... due to venus being .20 of a degree from my asc, these two parts spread from my part of fortune and part of spirit in likewise incriments...

... to be more specific.

part of fortune (as + moon - sun) = 24.51 gemini

part of eros (as + venus - spirit) = 24.31 gemini

"Fortunate psyche" for lack of better term (as + pof - venus) = 25.11 Gemini

Part of spirit (As + sun - moon) = 7.27 pisces

Part of psyche (As + spirit - venus) = 7.47 Pisces

Part of "fortunate eros" (as + venus - Pof) = 7.07 Pisces...

(Likewise. i believe a similar pattern would occur for these lots relational to a planet conjunct the node... for instance imprisonment and its reverse and its flipside and reverse near pof and pos for neptune conj the as...[Pluto, hmm?])

So... let me retrace and try to dissect this as it could help to dissect your theory...

part of eros using your thoery would mean those that we instinctually seek out as part of our "support group"

Part of +eros would be those that our "oversoul" deem necessary to be in our support group...

part of psyche would represent those that instinctually seek us out as part of their support group...

and part of +psyche would be those oversouls that deem us necessary to be in others support groups...

(Correct me if i am wrong in this interpretation ptv....)

The only degree that actually moves from pof/pos for me is the "+PSYCHE" ... moving from gemini 25 to gemini 26....

And gemini 26 does give us an indication of the dynamic between the two symbols...

gemini 25 is about pruning of the mind to allow room for growth... so an eros there is about seeking out those with a mind that is trained towards steady expansion...

here is what it says regarding gemini 26...

(Shortened symbol... taken from Dane Rudhyar's "An Astrological Mandala")


"FROST-COVERED TREES AGAINST WINTER SKIES.

KEYNOTE: The revelation of archetypal form and essential rhythm of existence.

......Externals are left behind. This is a step beyond "pruning"; it is rather a process of removal of all superficialities of existence. Cyclically, nature helps us to reach this state of bare reality. It is not that we experience the Buddhist's void (sunya), but rather that we reach the essence of our individual being, the form of pure selfhood which is the structuring power underneath all external features -all that belong to the "leaf" realm."

A step beyond pruning... revelation of archetypal form... essence of our individual being... removal of all superficialities...

Yes! I see it... trained mind vs. mastered mind.... instinctual feeling vs. "Oversoul requirement"

Btw... your theory is very congruent with what we have discovered regarding the parts of nemesis and imprisonment...

Here are Yeshuas parts (using the original data...)

Eros: 24.20
Psyche: 7.07
+ Psyche: 12.12
+ Eros: 19.14

....and while we are at it, why not look up these parts involving pluto....?

The implications should be rather striking given that Yeshua merged with the christ consciousness... and as you said to me in an email He would have operated in a fashion that was precicesly consistent with Gods plan... (reaching ones full potential...) so its interesting that there is a connection here with pluto and His part of soul and fortune regarding what one transforms in relation to self and the christ-self... (and moon parts should be right around here too.....)

AS + Pluto - Spirit: 18.32
As + Pluto - Pof: 13.26
As + Spirit - Pluto: 12.55
As + Pof - Pluto: 18.00

(Note... i was rounding with the online calculator... tried to calculate that last one by hand and i got something like.... 18.00.33 .... not sure how accurate that is... i'm rather exhausted atm.... but nonetheless i think its rounded down to 18 and not up to 18.... )

Oh...... not to jump to any conclusions.... but it seems pretty convincing to me... these parts that deal with pluto... transformation of light... (luminaries... sun and moon...)

It has to deal with illumination...

I mean..... mine seem pretty powerful.... like... super accurate and in tune.... MAJOR.. like running through the halls shouting... type of deal....

Without getting too specific (its late... i iz tired... getting gobbly...i have to look into these parts some more...) i am seeing a dynamic of....

our instinctive upreaching towards illumination and the outer necessity... goal.... of our illumination

hey Phoenix...
You know, I got something wrong in the calcs. as to what I wrote in my post above but I was up till 7 or 8 a m and when I saw what I'm rather sure is in error I was just too dang tired to start going over all the calculations and figuring out where I messed up.
I only got up about 45 mins ago and I'm going to go get some Chinese food [Greased Chicken with extra fat] ,,,,I'll be Bach

btw...I sent you a list of exalted degrees for each planet and I was considering testing those as Parts. It would be a continuation series based on the formulae for the Part of Nobility and Honor... and by formulae I mean only because the 'Trads' claim both the Sun and Moon should be used depending on a diurnal or nocturnal birth, which I've never found a single nocturnal formula to be valid as of yet..
Although that Part hasn't really shown me anything much as to be considered a valid Part itself.

Have you done anything like that already?


...gotta date with a fortune cookie...

...c u later

I'll try to straighten out what I posted in error in the next few days.

I should of waited to have posted this thread, but as I pointed out in the first post, I hit the wrong button instead of preview and I would have likely not gone ahead and posted this thread after I had previewed it. and thought it over.

I need to go over your list of calcs and see which ones are in disagreement with my own. I should've stopped myself that day I tried to push myself in completing my list, I should have, as for knowing that I have done the same sort of thing in the past once too often.

But, it may be a few days, I've got too much personal stuff to take care of at present, that I've put off for too long.

Even so its a grand theory and theoretically makes a lot of sense and seems like it could be applied. to some other parts as well....

... im very curious as to your opinion regarding those parts involving pluto that i posted about in my last post...

i havent looked into the exalted degrees much and in fact i dont remember getting that from you... i will have to look through my emails...

I figure this is the best place to share this... as the thread did sort of reopen my interest in these parts...

for my chart...

as + pof - uranus = 3 taurus... "The gradual expansion of the individual consciousness after a fecundating experience... natural fulfillment."

as + uranus - pof = aries 30... "the realization of natural boundaries"

Howwwwww fricken interesting... expansion vs boundaries... sooooo effing curious given that my pof symbolism is all about pruning for proper expansion.... wooooaaahhhh.... and if you read my thread in this section "discoveries of outer planets" you will see that uranus was discovered in 25 gem... this same symbol .....

Hhhhmmmmm.....
.......I dare say this seems to be something of significance....

here are Yeshuas:

AS + POF - URA : 10.45 virgo

(Taken from Dane Rudhyars "An Astrological Mandala")

"IN HER BABY A MOTHER SEES HER DEEP LONGING FOR A SON ANSWERED.

KEYTE: The Spirit's answer to the vital needs of whatever became individualized out of its infinite ocean of potentialities."

As + URA - POF: 20.41 libra..

"A SUNDAY CROWD ENJOYING THE BEACH.

KEYNOTE: A revivifying contact with the Mother-force of nature and of social togetherness."

I'm sorry I haven't gotten back to this thread Phoenix, but I do need to do some review on the topic to refresh my memory and then I'l finally get to checking out the experimentation you done and your findings.
Could you direct me to the thread where-in the Part of Psyche was proposed ...to be honest, I can't remember any of it other than that title

It's hard enough trying to keep all the traditional names and alternative names for the Astro Parts without also keeping tabs on the changes and proposed changes you and I have compiled too...especially when I haven't gotten around to utilizing them much if at all since the last time I gave them any thought.

..and if you would be a dear, could you also send me the link to the decimal to degree calculator again, as I can't recall where that went but I may have accidently erased it.

...I do like what I'm seeing as to those + Eros Prts.
Uranus in the way you've used it is a bit confusing though as the natural sequence continued would be Asc. + Uranus - Part of Soul and from the Yeshu'a chart that calculates to be 25* Virgo 45' 20"

Rudyar's book on the Sabians, "An Astrological Mandala" has that as:

"(VIRGO 26°): A BOY WITH A CENSER SERVES THE PRIEST NEAR THE ALTAR.

KEYNOTE: The first stage of actual participation in the great ritual of planetary evolution.

Whether we think of the ancient mysteries, or of a Catholic Mass, or of some still more transcendent ceremony in which great Beings charged with planetary responsibilities are involved, we are dealing with a type of archetypal activity. The ritual is archetypal in that it represents, in however small a field of activity, a portion of the evolving structure of the cosmos, as this structure is understood in its "sacred" sense. Every such activity is performed "in the presence of God." Menial as it may be, it nevertheless acquires a sacred meaning.

This is the first stage of the thirty-sixth five-fold sequence, which brings us to the close of the first half of the cycle. The individual is "e-ducated," i.e. led out into the world of transcendent activity, the world of archetypal performance. He must learn to serve, humbly and with intense attention, in what as yet is beyond his spiritual understanding. He learns to perform every action super-personally. He learns to PRACTICE IN THE PRESENCE OF GOD."

...and "Hey Zeus turn up the juice" if that ain't some symbol for the Man from Naz in consideration of Danes's words; " some still more transcendent ceremony in which great Beings charged with planetary responsibilities are involved, we are dealing with a type of archetypal activity."

why call on the understudy when the Oscar winner is here and ready to play the part?

I can only figure that what this other uranus formula produces is something akin to a "Sudden Spiritual Advancement for Your Brethren" or something as like that ...
Mine comes out at 23* Aries 04' 13" same as my Part of Tragedy & Fatality

Yours at 17 Leo 05'

and Clarisse's 29* Pisces 59' ...dang! a second later on her birthtime or move the maternity ward a few feet to the East and it's the first of Aries... but what a choic e between symbol, especially in consideration that it's an unkown..!?!

Hey ptv.

here is the thread on the lot of psyche:

http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/showthread.php?p=508991# ost508991

and the link to the decimal-degree conversion:

http://m.calculatorsoup.com/calculators/time/decimal-to-time-calculator.php

... Regarding the uranus formulae... doesnt it make more sense that the difference in meaning between pof/pos remains consistent....?

... it might be worth it to take some time to look at both.

Phoenix Venus said:

Hey ptv.

here is the thread on the lot of psyche:

http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/showthread.php?p=508991# ost508991

and the link to the decimal-degree conversion:

http://m.calculatorsoup.com/calculators/time/decimal-to-time-calculator.php

... Regarding the uranus formulae... doesnt it make more sense that the difference in meaning between pof/pos remains consistent....?

... it might be worth it to take some time to look at both.

Click to expand...

Yes, i understand the consistency but I was reffering to the theme we kind of established and agreed to, or mutually recognized [or at least I thought that we did] that being using the pattern of the formulae of the Hermetic lots and then reversing the formulae to see what it produces and attempting to deduce the results indicated if they were to be assumed to be valid 'Astrological Parts'... which we both agreed that they must certainly be...it's only natural, as that follows the natural laws of all creation, in that everything has it's opposite as this Universes' basic fundamental Law is that of Duality.
As what I gave in my last post above is a formula for an "Astrological Part" for Uranus following the same pattern established for the Hermetic Lots and notably already having been extended with the addition of a Part for Neptune in harmony with the pattern in the formulae for the Hermetic Lots. I'll just continue on with the reverse formula of; Asc. + Part of Spirit/Soul - Uranus and what is produced for the Yeshu'a chart is 05* 41' 13"
I find that this given result is also consistent with the differences you mention, P.Vs I have made mention of, to you either in a p.m. or in a thread here in the forum somewhere, that I can see the significant events of Yeshu'a's last three days on Earth among the living in the symbolism of the first five degrees of Libra when read in reverse, that is to say, in the direction of clockwise around and through the 360 degrees of the Zodiac, which is the process of following the 'Spiritual Path" of breaking the bounds of the material world that we are shackled to, the means of extricating oneself from the illusion or Maya. When I read the first five degrees of Libra in the other direction I see the final goup talk that Jesus [Yeshu'a] is said to have had with his disciples, the Last Supper, Easter Sunrise , the absolution of his own sins and what sins He was partially responsible for among all of mankind for having been the Adam of the Book of Genesis and getting everyone, of all the five races of men, kicked out of Eden and into a less desirable environs, one that offers more temptation for sin [Five races, five "Adams" as explained in the readings given by the twentieth century American clairvoyant, Edgar Cayce as given in account in the book compiled from some of Cayce's readings tiled, "Edgar Cayce On the Origin and Destiny of Man" by an author i can't recall the name of right at this moment and also in the book "Edgar Cayce's Story of Jesus" by Jeffery Furst]

Now, P.V., in light of your own findings in you post above, i think that you get a kick out of what I am about to relate here in the following.
As to those "Exalted Degrees of the Planets and Luminaries" from the Book of Astrology by Llewellyn that I wrote to you about and discussed using in hypothetical formulae for Parts in the same manner as that of the Part of Nobility and Honor uses the exalted degree given for the Sun, i.e. the 19th degree of Aries, I calculated all of them last nigtht and will present them here in the next post...but as I had to retype all of the post to this point after a rather bizarre "glitch' caused by an undetermined source clicked the page on aw, in which that I was writing this response, back to the previous one I was on and caused me to lose well over an hours worth of effort I'm now going to post this much and take a brief rest...but it will be worth the wait, that is if you find that you have to wait before I get back to this... so stay tuned, as they say.

...continued

Well, I was going to take a break but as i see you are online P.V., I'll just grit my teeth and bear it and ...to use an cornball cliche..."Git 'er done"

Those "Exalted Degrees" for the Planets are as follows:

The Moon, which is used for those that believe that nonsense about diurnal and nocturnal formulae and is already generally known, but all the same here it is again, is at 03*

Mercury 15*
Venus 27*
Mars 28*
Jupiter 15*
Saturn 21*

Understandably, there are none given for the planets Uranus, Neptune and Pluto and particularly Pluto seeing as how the book by Llewellyn was first published just after the beginning of the 20th Century.

The North Node of the Moon 03*
South Node 03*

The result I got for Mercury, based on identical canstruct of the formula given for the Part of Nobility and Honor that uses the Exalted Degree given for the Sun at 19* ls 14* 37' 33"
for Venus: [and check it out, Phoenix Venus...look familiar?} 20* 56' 13"

Mars: {and I think that you're going to love this one too, P.V.} 09* 47' 45"
...more to follow in a bit...
break time...

...continuing...

for Jupiter: 02* 31' 26" {the same sign and degree as Yeshu'a's Part of Faith...!}

for Saturn: 13* 17' 09" ...and that Sign and degree have come up a lot for me lately, it is my Nieces' placement of Her natal Venus, it is the degree prior to my sisters' natal Part of Fortune, yet it is the same Sign and degree of Her Part of Self Sacrifice and...

It is the Sign and degree found for President Obama's Part of Transformation of Others' Minds, aka Part of Popularity.

I didn't try using the Exalted degrees given for the Nodes though...might be interesting what comes out of that...but I'm ...out of it...my "gas guage" says "Empty"... must be time for this one to ride off into the Sunrise....

but, b 4 I do...
I got to say,

Hey P.V.,I do see these as legit Parts and I've got my impression of what these formulae are producing as a set ... Ill talk to you about that later or if you've got an impression/decision/ ...feel free to post it... and anyone else for that matter but I'd like to hear from you others as pertaining to specific Sabian Symbols and not thos declared interpretations of qualities given for specific degrees over at the "skys'crapt" webpage if you don't mind... PUHLEEZE...

...there seems to be a number of members and possibly a moderator or two that can't grasp the difference between Semantics and Semiotics... they are not the same thing...
...maybe they should start a seperate forum titled "Degree Semantics" or just "Debris"

Interesting, ptv... thanks for sharing.

i calculated His parts utilizing the nodes... (the two formulae result in a part in the same degree position...) both being at 20.25 aries.... !!

This is "a pugulist enters the ring" ..., my part of imprisonment!

Well i did look up my own part utilizing the exaltation of mercury (which is 4.26 virgo, the symbol being about becoming aware of spiritual assistance.... which is a very similar symbol as my part of "subtle and hidden change..."

Looking up Yeshuas symbol at 15 aqua, weve got a very promising part. let me quote a bit of it, taken from Dane Rudhyar's "An Astrological Mandala" :

"Inner happiness is seen to be the reward for all individuals who have made a valuable "contribution" to their community or to mankind as a whole. In its highest aspect this happiness is indeed BEATITUDE."

.... awesome! Definitely something...

and when you think about the part involving the sun.... "nobility and honor" would represent an exalted expression of the sun... an exalted ego...

So this all leads me to believe that these parts have to do with the planet in a state of reverence.... the planets potential of exaltion, the reward which meets an honorable expression of the planet... utilizing that planet for a greater good.... something along those lines....

... that is if the exalted degrees are all attributed accurately...
howver i am impressed so far with what i see.... the one for my jupiter (21cap.. keyword "intelligent forsight") is soooo in tune with my lot of victory (which as you know utilizes jupiter in the formula...)..... very impressed....

wow! The part utilizing the moon for my natal comes up to 23 virgo and it even says "...,an exalted status or social Office." ...!

Yeshuas part utilizing venus being about (in my opinion) cosmic unity... seems very appropriate...

were you thinking along similar lines....?

... btw you arent the only one lossing stuff... a two hour long post on the current neptune rx passage... just about to attach the chart to go along with.... right down the drain...

part of fortune (as + moon - sun) = 16.43 virgo

part of eros (as + venus - spirit) = 0.16 sagittarius

"Fortunate psyche" for lack of better term (as + pof - venus) = 3.10 Cancer

Part of spirit (As + sun - moon) = 20.41 gemini

Part of psyche (As + spirit - venus) = 7.8 Aries

Part of "fortunate eros" (as + venus - Pof) = 4.14 Virgo

Phoenix Venus said:

Interesting, ptv... thanks for sharing.

i calculated His parts utilizing the nodes... (the two formulae result in a part in the same degree position...) both being at 20.25 aries.... !!

This is "a pugulist enters the ring" ..., my part of imprisonment!

Well i did look up my own part utilizing the exaltation of mercury (which is 4.26 virgo, the symbol being about becoming aware of spiritual assistance.... which is a very similar symbol as my part of "subtle and hidden change..."

Looking up Yeshuas symbol at 15 aqua, weve got a very promising part. let me quote a bit of it, taken from Dane Rudhyar's "An Astrological Mandala" :

"Inner happiness is seen to be the reward for all individuals who have made a valuable "contribution" to their community or to mankind as a whole. In its highest aspect this happiness is indeed BEATITUDE."

.... awesome! Definitely something...

and when you think about the part involving the sun.... "nobility and honor" would represent an exalted expression of the sun... an exalted ego...

So this all leads me to believe that these parts have to do with the planet in a state of reverence.... the planets potential of exaltion, the reward which meets an honorable expression of the planet... utilizing that planet for a greater good.... something along those lines....

... that is if the exalted degrees are all attributed accurately...
howver i am impressed so far with what i see.... the one for my jupiter (21cap.. keyword "intelligent forsight") is soooo in tune with my lot of victory (which as you know utilizes jupiter in the formula...)..... very impressed....

wow! The part utilizing the moon for my natal comes up to 23 virgo and it even says "...,an exalted status or social Office." ...!

Yeshuas part utilizing venus being about (in my opinion) cosmic unity... seems very appropriate...

were you thinking along similar lines....?

Click to expand...

Yep!

You see it too...!