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  #26  
Unread 03-15-2012, 10:21 PM
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Re: Major US Study Says Red Meat Unhealthy/Lethal/Can Kill!!!

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Originally Posted by Anachiel View Post
My point is, they (Eskimos) hardly adhere to the "food pyramid" that purports to be the basis of a healthy diet and lifestyle. They consume NO vegatables and certainly no citrus fruits.
In contrast, the Indian diet is predominantly vegan - most Indians consume no meat at all and are healthier than many of their over-fed contemporaries in the West - death is caused by malaria or by water-borne disease such as cholera/other tropical disease
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ixaee View Post
Exactly; and the Japanese have the longest life expectancy in the entire world. They eat 90% seafood (fish, sushi, crabs, even whales, etc)... rarely, do traditional Japanese eat red meats. (The younger generation is beginning to eat more of it though, and there are also more health issues surfacing in the country since this began.)

"According to both
UN and WHO estimates, Japan has the longest life expectancy of any country in the world. According to the UN, it has the third lowest infant mortality rate.[11][12]"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japan#Health
By the way; To the poster above who claims eating animal fat is what caused our intelligence to increase; It was fat in general.

Primitive people did not know how to process milk, cheese, eggs, nut oils, coconut oils, olive oils, etc.. so of course there was a great nutritional deficiency because we were eating nothing but plant food -- with a bit of grain thrown in.

Any healthy source of ample oil/fat would have caused the same development.

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Unread 03-15-2012, 10:28 PM
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Re: Major US Study Says Red Meat Unhealthy/Lethal/Can Kill!!!

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Originally Posted by JUPITERASC View Post
In contrast, the Indian diet is predominantly vegan - most Indians consume no meat at all and are healthier than many of their over-fed contemporaries in the West - death is caused by malaria or by water-borne disease such as cholera/other tropical disease

Yes, yes...I'm not arguing for or against meat or non-meat diets. My overlooked point is that there are a variety of diets, some exclusively meat and some not so much and...in comparison to what we are traditionally told about a "healthy diet" there is something that is being overlooked. Obviously.
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Unread 03-15-2012, 11:10 PM
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Re: Major US Study Says Red Meat Unhealthy/Lethal/Can Kill!!!

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Originally Posted by Anachiel View Post
Actually, they (Eskimos) eat quite a few land forms including include walrus, seal, caribou, polar bear, to name a few. They do not eat just the meat but, also the organs which, makes sense.
walrus and seal are not exclusively 'land forms' as such. walrus and seal spend much of their time in the water. I have already mentioned that Eskimos consume seal and rarely, the occasional polar bear.

Caribou are land forms but cannot survive where ice and snow prevent the growth of vegetation. Therefore, Eskimos inhabiting the frozen wastes rarely have access to caribou and those
Eskimos mostly subsist on fish and seal. Some Eskimos do have rare access to land vegetables, but in any event, crucially, Eskimos do eat plenty of seaweed and other sea vegetables.

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Originally Posted by MaeMae View Post
R&R ~ i refer to beef in this instance.
lots of people don't eat beef who survive. India for example.
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Originally Posted by Anachiel View Post
Yes, yes...I'm not arguing for or against meat or non-meat diets. My overlooked point is that there are a variety of diets, some exclusively meat and some not so much and...in comparison to what we are traditionally told about a "healthy diet" there is something that is being overlooked. Obviously.
IMO Your point, far from being overlooked has been obviously answered indirectly by MaeMae
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my only point really is that the meat that "Kills Us" is toxic, poorly raised and mass produced. Paying more for pure, raising your own (if you have the land) or going without should be the alternative.
MaeMae has already drawn our attention to the fact that it is the way the meat is raised that causes the illhealth to the consumer
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Fat steer pumped with steroids and hormones to weigh more, fed but not ranged, handed over to slaughterhouses that deal with a million cows a year, packaged, frozen and maybe even ground up with dirt and garbage, turned into "burgers", "steaks" and whatever ~
eating s*hit and not moving is what kills most of us
.
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nonetheless ~ i'm not anti-meat but i no longer eat it.
good, healthy , lean beef, ranged and grazed and not messed with and slaughtered appropriately is not what this study is talking about
.
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  #29  
Unread 03-16-2012, 12:57 AM
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Re: Major US Study Says Red Meat Unhealthy/Lethal/Can Kill!!!

I vote with the sensible, sensitive, informed carnivores.

This was a long-range study involving a lot of people. It is so general that it doesn't allow for fine-tuned discrimination.

Most beef sold in the developed world is marbled. This marbling of fat throughout the muscle tissue doesn't occur in nature. Cattle were bread for marbling because the melted fat throughout the meat is what makes a cut of meat more flavourful and juicy. Most processed meats sold by large meat-packers are high in fat, salt, nitrates, sweeteners, and preservatives.

To avoid the problems with commercial beef, look for leaner cuts (like round steak) and if you like ground beef, grind it yourself so you know exactly what's going in there. Look for a source of "natural" or organic beef in your area. You can probably find farmers within a decent radius of your home who sell this type of beef. Check, also, if you have a local farmers' market, as these growers will often sell their products there.

If you like red meat, you can also opt for lamb, goat, or farm-raised vension or bison. These animals have not been bred for marbling. If there is fat on the outside of a roast, you can trim it off.

For sure, any diet that focuses on fresh fruits and vegetables is going to be better than one heavy in saturated fats and additives. There is a big debate about whole grains (carbs) and dairy products. Obviously a little of anything in moderation is going to be just fine.

A totally vegan diet does not provide adequate bio-available iron and some of the B-vitamins. A person who is vegan out of conscience might happily pop a vitamin pill rather than consume meat. However, this does indicate that humans did not evolve with a vegan diet.

Hindus are not vegan. They consume dairy products such as yogurt and soft cheeses (chenna, paneer). Truth be known, scientists who wondered how Hindus got enough B-vitamins determined that insect infestations in rice (in a developing nation) were enough to provide some of the animal-based vitamins.
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  #30  
Unread 03-16-2012, 11:20 AM
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Re: Major US Study Says Red Meat Unhealthy/Lethal/Can Kill!!!

I think the best thing to do is to eat more fruit, vegetables, nuts, fish and beans. Occasionally some cheese is nice, and I think meat once a week is fine. If I spend money on meat, I opt for decent quality like organic or halal. I feel pretty healthy as a result.

The other reason people can get ill from meat is the use of meat trimmings and ammonium hydroxide (which is corrosive) to form pink slime, which is even worse than ordinary meat. But that's what happens when government agencies serve narrow economic interests instead of public health (even with the concept of externalities...).
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  #31  
Unread 03-20-2012, 05:43 AM
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Re: Major US Study Says Red Meat Unhealthy/Lethal/Can Kill!!!

Nuts are for weirdos. Eat meat, in abundance. Just balance it out with vegetables. Only eat fruit as often as you'd eat snacks and candy, fruit is just a snack. Don't eat bread, rice, potatoes and other tubers, don't eat dairy, and don't eat anything refined or processed.

Oh golly, I'm describing the exact diet humans ate before civilization! Human remains of those eating this diet were shown to have very few serious health problems, contrary to those found eating more modern diets, including the Japanese (generally considered the healthiest people).
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  #32  
Unread 03-20-2012, 07:33 AM
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Re: Major US Study Says Red Meat Unhealthy/Lethal/Can Kill!!!

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Originally Posted by Anachiel View Post
Here is something I have thought about for....quite awhile.

Eskimos eat nothing but meat. In fact, they have a rather mono diet and they do not die of any of the diseases or have any of the complications that others do. They live quite long and healthy lives for the most part.

Italians, for example, also not only eat a high amount of meat but, also high cholesterol. Yet, they have a lower incidence of heart and arterial problems then other places like the USA.

So, it it really what we eat or how it is treated before we eat it?? Is it what we eat or how we are eating it or using that energy to fuel our lives? Not sure, but I can tell you that the argument is not so easily solved by simply pointing fingers at a carrot vs. a steak.

Just some thoughts....
I don't know that we Italians are anymore tolerant to high levels than other ethnic groups overall. I did hear of an exception or two...
I believe those Italians you are referring to are an isolated group that has an extremely high level of cholesterol among them and the tolerance for it...and I can't remember where in Italy the region is. They do use a lot of Olive oil and probably exclusively.
Since 2007 I know longer allow any oil to be used in cooking in my home other than Olive but do permit occasionally peanut, almond..or any of the 'nut' oils... [don't care for the flavor of coconut other than in candy or cake, thanx u.]

I know that my mom [who sort of atypical 'Earth Mother Hippie'... though she was 38 at the onset of the 'Summer of Love'. {I was 14}] whom had read all of Adele Davis and was always up to date with all things Edgar Cayce, had a 'Cause' going for dietary oils.

She extolled Olive oil and Peanut oil as Cayce had done so.
She oft remarked that it is the oils we use that potentially are are the greatest harm to us in the 'long term picture'.
She oft reminded me that there was not much that was worse than eating something of rancid oil content.
Inferior and or unnatural oils aren't good for you. That crud that is called 'Canola oil' that was known as 'Rape seed oil' prior to the nation of Canada trying figure out how to sell a non digestible oil with an unappealing name that they happened to have so much of.
Now, Monsanto has even come out with a GM Rape seed plant....horrors!

Last edited by piercethevale; 03-20-2012 at 07:42 AM.
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  #33  
Unread 03-20-2012, 07:50 AM
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Re: Major US Study Says Red Meat Unhealthy/Lethal/Can Kill!!!

..and my roommate Rick, just informed me [as he sometimes works as a chef/cook ...killla Sous' Chef !] that one can no longer use 'Lard' in commercial cooking in the state of California since 2007... I wasn't aware of that..

.. first thing comes to mind..is Monsanto is probably behind that...
even though it is a good idea... I have a sneaking suspicion...
ifyaknowhatimean...

anybody see the recent movie with Billy BoB Thorton and Tia Leoni, called, 'Smell of Success'?

if so did you 'see' any Monsanto refs. in the flick?

[the scene about the huge carrot is one of the funniest of scenes ...but then again I do have a Scorpio Asc.... ...I recommend that flick ...a most novel Noir too!]
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  #34  
Unread 03-20-2012, 10:53 PM
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Re: Major US Study Says Red Meat Unhealthy/Lethal/Can Kill!!!

QUOTE FROM: "Food Inc"

"The Industry doesn't want you to know the truth about what you're eating because if you did - you might not want to eat it!... the food has become much more dangerous in ways that are being deliberately hidden from us... This isn't just about what we're eating... this is about what we are allowed to say... what we are allowed to know... the companies don't want the Farmers talking - they don't want this story told"
http://www.schooltube.com/video/66aa3cbb5d91038dfda3/
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  #35  
Unread 03-20-2012, 11:15 PM
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Re: Major US Study Says Red Meat Unhealthy/Lethal/Can Kill!!!

and sadly, most people never bother to ask...
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  #36  
Unread 03-21-2012, 04:31 AM
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Re: Major US Study Says Red Meat Unhealthy/Lethal/Can Kill!!!

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Originally Posted by piercethevale View Post
Inferior and or unnatural oils aren't good for you. That crud that is called 'Canola oil' that was known as 'Rape seed oil' prior to the nation of Canada trying figure out how to sell a non digestible oil with an unappealing name that they happened to have so much of.
Now, Monsanto has even come out with a GM Rape seed plant....horrors!
Good info!..thanks for that very informative. I had no idea they renamed it...
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  #37  
Unread 03-21-2012, 05:15 AM
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Re: Major US Study Says Red Meat Unhealthy/Lethal/Can Kill!!!

Since there is reference to Rapeseed oil and Canola oil, I'd put forward my views.

Mustard/Rapeseed oil Vs Canola oil:
==========================

Mustard/Rapeseed oil, extensively used in India and China. Before coming to USA, I ate Mustard/Rapeseed oil almost every day. It does not hurt/harm me, it has been used for cooking and body massage since generations.

Mustard/Rapeseed oil has about 5% Erucic Acid, in excess, supposed to cause scar on organ tissues. Canada went ahead with genetic engineering and came up with Canola oil. In this process, the 5% omega 3 oil of Mustard/Rapeseed oil increased up to 12% in Canola Oil.

Of course, it was time to celebrate, omega 3 being essential oil, and its content increased, but cooking with omega 3 is poisonous (Omega 3 turns rencid). Canola oil probably became harmful oil for consumption, although it is sold.

Please note that flaxseed oil, rich in omega 3 is kept in dark bottle and inside freeze, to preserve from getting rencid (from heat and light). It is not used for cooking.
===

Use of Mustard/Rapeseed oil, specially for body massage is helpful, in case, Mars is week. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mustard_oil
===

Last edited by dhundhun; 03-21-2012 at 05:37 AM.
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Unread 03-21-2012, 05:19 AM
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Re: Major US Study Says Red Meat Unhealthy/Lethal/Can Kill!!!

For me Red Meat means Goat Meat. It helps me to strengthen Mars. In fact, this Red Meat, Red Pepper and Mustard oil helps me to improve Mars.

Astrologically, I recommend others, if their Mars is Weak or in Fall, with warnings that Red Meat influences lipid profile, Pepper can cause digestive irritation and Mustard can cause scar in internal organ. But they are sort of best to strengthen Mars.

BTW, any other suggestion (other than Indian Garam Masala) for Foods, which helps Mars?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Garam_masala

Last edited by dhundhun; 03-21-2012 at 05:35 AM.
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  #39  
Unread 03-21-2012, 05:51 AM
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Re: Major US Study Says Red Meat Unhealthy/Lethal/Can Kill!!!

Great info dhundhun.

Traditionally, from Western perspective anyway, ginger, pepper, garlic, onion, radish, mustard-seed, spinach, nettles, leeks and horehound all add to Mars.
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  #40  
Unread 03-21-2012, 06:37 PM
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Re: Major US Study Says Red Meat Unhealthy/Lethal/Can Kill!!!

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Originally Posted by dhundhun View Post
For me Red Meat means Goat Meat. It helps me to strengthen Mars. In fact, this Red Meat, Red Pepper and Mustard oil helps me to improve Mars.

Astrologically, I recommend others, if their Mars is Weak or in Fall, with warnings that Red Meat influences lipid profile, Pepper can cause digestive irritation and Mustard can cause scar in internal organ. But they are sort of best to strengthen Mars.


BTW, any other suggestion (other than Indian Garam Masala) for Foods, which helps Mars?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Garam_masala
dhundhun - check out turmeric, basil, mint
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Unread 03-22-2012, 01:54 AM
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Re: Major US Study Says Red Meat Unhealthy/Lethal/Can Kill!!!

Thanks Anachiel and JUPITERASC.

As continuation to my postings in the thread, This is what I use for Mars in fall (Cancer) - twice a week.
http://www.spicytasty.com/meat-and-s...-mutton-curry/

With slight variation, my cooking includes: Goat Red Meat, Red Chillies, Mustard Oil, Turmeric, Onion, Ginger, etc. In addition to that, I add about 10 whole Cayenne pepper and some more hot spices.

Substituting Red Meat with Chicken or Fish does not help that much. Just to convey value of Red Meat in this context.

Last edited by dhundhun; 03-22-2012 at 02:08 AM.
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  #42  
Unread 03-22-2012, 02:24 AM
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Re: Major US Study Says Red Meat Unhealthy/Lethal/Can Kill!!!

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Originally Posted by dhundhun View Post
Thanks Anachiel and JUPITERASC.

As continuation to my postings in the thread, This is what I use for Mars in fall (Cancer) - twice a week.
http://www.spicytasty.com/meat-and-s...-mutton-curry/

With slight variation, my cooking includes: Goat Red Meat, Red Chillies, Mustard Oil, Turmeric, Onion, Ginger, etc. In addition to that, I add about 10 whole Cayenne pepper and some more hot spices.

Substituting Red Meat with Chicken or Fish does not help that much. Just to convey value of Red Meat in this context.
dhundhun, sidereal Mars in fall (Cancer) - or is that tropical Mars in fall (Cancer)?
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Unread 03-22-2012, 02:34 AM
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Re: Major US Study Says Red Meat Unhealthy/Lethal/Can Kill!!!

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dhundhun, sidereal Mars in fall (Cancer) - or is that tropical Mars in fall (Cancer)?
Tropical Fall. Western Astrology.
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  #44  
Unread 03-24-2012, 06:35 PM
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Re: Major US Study Says Red Meat Unhealthy/Lethal/Can Kill!!!

i can't help but feel that the conditions the animals lived in is reflected within their flesh. that's not too asinine, right?

you are born and branded. if you're unlucky enough to not be wanted for veal (in which they would place you in a cage not big enough to stand [so your muscles atrophy and you're more tender than a crooning frank sinatra] until you're ready for the chopper), you are forced into a building with thousands of others your type, typically without enough room to sit in your own excrement. you are forced-fed corn, which you are not meant to digest. you are pumped full of antibiotics to keep your living conditions from literally killing you. once you're ready for slaughter, you are cramped into a truck with your cohorts with no food or water, no matter the weather. if you refuse, you may be beaten or electrocuted to death. then you get to the slaughterhouse, and well, it's the most freedom you'll feel; somewhere new. that is, of course, before you suffer a typically inaccurate blow to the head meant to stun you, whipped up on a conveyor belt by your hind feet, and have your throat cut whether you're unconscious or not. your body is then mechanically and quickly skinned, gutted, and pulled into their "appropriate" pieces.

now. if we humans are willing to do this to our animal brethren, i don't think it's too daring to say that our collective guilt might be what's giving everyone butt cancer from meat.

the end.
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Unread 03-24-2012, 07:02 PM
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Re: Major US Study Says Red Meat Unhealthy/Lethal/Can Kill!!!

bravo.
really.
we are what we eat.
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  #46  
Unread 03-24-2012, 08:58 PM
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Re: Major US Study Says Red Meat Unhealthy/Lethal/Can Kill!!!

etheriver, gourmets who hunt claim that they can taste the difference in the quality of the meat if the animal died instantly or was stressed and suffering prior to death.

Have you read any of the auto-biographical books by Temple Grandin? She is an autistic woman who really could feel with suffering animals. She became a professional designer of meat-packing houses that minimized the fear and stress of animals about to be slaughtered.

I would sure recommend that carnivores either buy organic meat from a known source, or purchase directly from small farmers in your local area who advertise meat for sale, probably in your local newspapers. These small operations can be visited and observed for humane treatment of animals.

Unfortunately most supermarket vegetables and fruits in the US come from agribusiness farms that rely on a lot of chemicals to create that perfect head of lettuce or apple, as well as badly-paid migrant farm labour. The chemicals run off into waterways, creating environmental problems. Although these days, a lot of produce comes from China, which has even worse regulation of food safety. If it comes from South America or South Africa, it has to travel thousands of miles by ship, and then languish in a warehouse before it shows up on your grocers' shelves. Pretty much all of it is picked green, so the nutritional content is really reduced.

There isn't much moral high ground in vegetarianism, either; especially not the ovo-lacto type for people who shop in supermarkets, I'm afraid.
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Last edited by waybread; 03-24-2012 at 09:01 PM.
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  #47  
Unread 03-25-2012, 07:53 AM
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Re: Major US Study Says Red Meat Unhealthy/Lethal/Can Kill!!!

waybread, i haven't head of ms. grandin, but am certainly interested. almost excited, you might say ^^;
i've read (hearsay?) that heavy cap types are statistically more likely to pursue vegetarianism, and with my loaded cap sixth, i'm inclined to believe it.

organics aren't just a posh "name brand" for people with six figure incomes. fast and convenient (thereby dirt cheap and comprised halfway of starlink corn) "food" has utterly bastardised our concept of the actual price/value of food. think, 100 years ago, EVERYTHING was organic. within the timeframe of human existence, that's a drop in the bucket. we have almost no way of knowing what pesticides, fungicides, or god forbid GMOs will do to our bodies or the planet. there simply hasn't been enough time, though i fear we are beginning to see more than the tip of the iceberg...
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Unread 03-25-2012, 10:53 AM
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Re: Major US Study Says Red Meat Unhealthy/Lethal/Can Kill!!!

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fwiw according to a major US study, red meat is not only unhealthy but can be positively lethal. Apparently, the research shows regularly eating red meat - especially the processed variety - dramatically increases the risk of death from heart disease and cancer.

Each additional daily serving of processed red meat, equivalent to one hot-dog or two rashers of bacon, raised the chances of dying by a fifth.

source: Sky News http://news.sky.com/home/uk-news/article/16187521
WOW I never liked meat anyway, it tastes so weird. Happy I turned vegetarian
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Unread 03-26-2012, 04:10 AM
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Re: Major US Study Says Red Meat Unhealthy/Lethal/Can Kill!!!

I agree, etheriver. I grow a lot of produce in a large vegetable garden (& freeze, can, or dry a lot of it); and buy from farmers' markets and local producers when I am able. I live in a rural area, and also find there is an informal produce swap amongst the neighbours in the summer (her squash for my celery, &c.) However, we still buy imported supermarket food (coffee, tea, tropical fruit, &) so it's not quite the 100-mile diet. But we work towards it.
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Unread 03-26-2012, 04:10 AM
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Re: Major US Study Says Red Meat Unhealthy/Lethal/Can Kill!!!

I try to keep an objective view, especially in these days and times when everyone seems to have one agenda or another, particularly if it involves big money.

So, without meaning to stir the pot but seriously, I ask, are people living longer than used to? Despite all the "junk" that people are eating are we not all living longer, generally, than back in the good old days when everything was organic?

Eating healthy or not, everyone is going to die of something. Granted, this is not a license to eat unconsciously or to treat food and/or land and/or animals without respect.

In Ayurveda it is spoken that the quality of food does not so much affect the body as it does the mind and emotions which, in turn affects access to the spirit and, eventually, affects the body. Obviously a dull mind cannot and is not interested in matters of the spirit and therefore languishes to some degree and, eventually, all else follows and devolves accordingly. Is the Age of Dumbness perhaps a result of all this playing out....I don't know. Just some thoughts I have sometimes about all these food matters.

Oh look!...is that a cookie over there....
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