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  #1  
Unread 10-09-2019, 03:27 AM
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Bible and Astrology

The bible and the church prevent Christian from learning, read, believe or even having an interest astrology. The church would keep pointing out verses in how bad or why we shouldn't and the fear of hell and angering God... so I used to think that it is not okay to go on with astrology and tried to be obedient but astrology again and again proved or let me see how much things in a person's chart is showing in his/her character. I feel angry, lost and confused... like what the hell is going on? Sorry, I am ranting...

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Unread 10-09-2019, 04:01 AM
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Re: Bible and Astrology

Rant away.

The first chapter of the bible (Gen. 1:14) tells why the stars were made, what they are for.

The last chapter (Rev. 22:1-2) speaks of the tree of life, its 12 fruits.

In between, God sends astrologers to worship the newborn king. Why would He do that if astrology is an abomination? (Matt. 2:1-12)

Job holds astrological references. "The sweet influences of Pleiades" (Job 38:31) Note the word "influences".

Most Christians parrot what they are told. They do not, by and large, read the book on which their religion stands.

Last edited by greybeard; 10-09-2019 at 04:17 AM.
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Unread 10-09-2019, 04:31 AM
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Re: Bible and Astrology

A side note.

Ricardo Arjona, the Guatemalan musical genius, wrote and sings a song called "Jesus es verbo, no sustantivo". I'm sure the internet will translate it for you. You might enjoy it.

The title means "Jesus is a verb, not a noun".
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Unread 10-09-2019, 04:36 AM
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Re: Bible and Astrology

Another name for The Bible is "The Book of the Ages"

It is a Book that gives us the tools of survival through the ages of the zodiac, it is an astrological book.

If you are concerned what your birth religion, or chosen religion is saying, it is up to you to decide which is more important to you.

Belonging to your church and following its teachings.

Or learning astrology.

It is your path, it is your choice.

Last edited by Opal; 10-09-2019 at 04:40 AM.
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Unread 10-09-2019, 04:44 AM
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Re: Bible and Astrology

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Originally Posted by greybeard View Post
A side note.

Ricardo Arjona, the Guatemalan musical genius, wrote and sings a song called "Jesus es verbo, no sustantivo". I'm sure the internet will translate it for you. You might enjoy it.

The title means "Jesus is a verb, not a noun".
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S7yfGs4TbEk

Last edited by Opal; 10-09-2019 at 04:50 AM. Reason: good pick for this thread Greybeard
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Unread 10-09-2019, 05:32 AM
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Thanks Opal
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Unread 10-09-2019, 02:01 PM
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Rant away.

The first chapter of the bible (Gen. 1:14) tells why the stars were made, what they are for.

The last chapter (Rev. 22:1-2) speaks of the tree of life, its 12 fruits.

In between, God sends astrologers to worship the newborn king. Why would He do that if astrology is an abomination? (Matt. 2:1-12)

Job holds astrological references. "The sweet influences of Pleiades" (Job 38:31) Note the word "influences".

Most Christians parrot what they are told. They do not, by and large, read the book on which their religion stands.
Yes, especially the Matt verse! I mean like if God forbid them to learn, then how is it God uses their astrology knowledge to find Lord Jesus, right? Then my preacher was like, "oh, they're the special case. God purposely show it to them." In my mind, I am thinking like, that is a simple and easy answer you are giving me, a quick fix to my question... so you mean they don't need to study it before God uses them? They however need to have learned it before God use them for that purpose, right?
I mean before God uses them in this event, these wise men would have to learned/accumulate a great deal of astrology knowledge before the day of God make use of them to locate Jesus Christ's birth place, right?

I just find that the answer he gave me is not good enough.
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Unread 10-09-2019, 02:24 PM
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Originally Posted by Opal View Post
Another name for The Bible is "The Book of the Ages"

It is a Book that gives us the tools of survival through the ages of the zodiac, it is an astrological book.

If you are concerned what your birth religion, or chosen religion is saying, it is up to you to decide which is more important to you.

Belonging to your church and following its teachings.

Or learning astrology.

It is your path, it is your choice.
I want both, I want truth.
I wonder why God let the planet shape us and also wonders was it the Satan playing trick with human using the planets and stars.

Seriously, can't leave God. After experiencing the surge of Holy Spirit energy coming into my body, giving me strength and changing my tongue language into something unknown and also giving me peace... can never deny that Holy Spirit didn't exist. What an another world inexplicable experience... And also seeing ghost a few times in my life. Spiritual world definitely exist. I believe in God, at the same time I want to learn astrology without being condemned, judged and criticized by church member all the time. Being boycott etc. I question, Why do they prevent me seeking for the truth at elsewhere or what is available for research? I have to check and explore every where, every available resources to find prove and evidence, to know which and what is the real truth. God and Holy Spirit is true but is the Bible? As far as I know people always changes fact and what they heard. How accurate is the bible? Is proven, Catholic, Islam, Jewish, Christian bible differs here and there. Since God is true, they shouldn't fret any research could ever topple his existence. But in the case of bible, yes, all of them fret. But still, People need to check everything before they come to a conclusion or decision. Or may be they're just being over protective. Sigh, truth is I am tired of the always and all the hell threatening thing... all the fear, the use of fear to control... to prevent you from research.

Last edited by PlutoLibScoAsc; 10-09-2019 at 02:31 PM.
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  #9  
Unread 10-09-2019, 02:34 PM
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Originally Posted by PlutoLibScoAsc View Post
I want both, I want truth.
I wonder why God let the planet shape us and also wonders was it the Satan playing trick with human using the planets and stars.

Seriously, can't leave God. After experiencing the surge of Holy Spirit energy coming into my body, giving me strength and changing my tongue language into something unknown and also giving me peace... can never deny that Holy Spirit didn't exist. What an another world inexplicable experience... And also seeing ghost a few times in my life. Spiritual world definitely exist. I believe in God, at the same time I want to learn astrology without being condemned, judged and criticized by church member all the time. Being boycott etc. I question, Why do they prevent me seeking for the truth at elsewhere or what is available for research? I have to check and explore every where, every available resources to find prove and evidence, to know which and what is the real truth. God and Holy Spirit is true but is the Bible? As far as I know people always changes fact and what they heard. How accurate is the bible? Is proven, Catholic, Islam, Jewish, Christian bible differs here and there. Since God is true, they shouldn't fret any research could ever topple his existence. But in the case of bible, yes, all of them fret. But still, People need to check everything before they come to a conclusion or decision. Or may be they're just being over protective. Sigh, truth is I am tired of the always and all the hell threatening thing... all the fear, the use of fear to control... to prevent you from research.
If you want both, I can think of 2 scenarios.

Keep your astrology a secret from your church.

Or

Join a church that is accepting of your interests.
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  #10  
Unread 10-09-2019, 02:39 PM
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Re: Bible and Astrology

Thanks, greybeard & Opal. Is a nice song.
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Unread 10-09-2019, 02:48 PM
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If you want both, I can think of 2 scenarios.

Keep your astrology a secret from your church.

Or

Join a church that is accepting of your interests.
keeping what I love and enjoy as a secret is tiring. Especially, when I see some funny astrology memes in FB, I can't even share it because my church friend would start judging, gossiping in church etc etc. Like when I join some astrology public group, bet the church friend see it and gossiping away. Well, actually I have stopped going to church. I think church and bible demands so much perfection, I find it really unattainable. Actually, I feel like God is asking for too much perfection out of a small brain tiny human being. He created us imperfect yet ask for perfection, I can't make sense of it.

Didn't experience Holy Spirit in other churches that I went/explored so far... my mom went to a church, people shaking uncontrollably, bet is evil spirit. Choosing church needs caution too... so far, haven't found a church as true as this one, but I stopped going...

Last edited by PlutoLibScoAsc; 10-09-2019 at 02:54 PM.
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Unread 10-09-2019, 04:45 PM
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Re: Bible and Astrology

Jesus said "...know the truth, and the truth shall make you free." (John 8:32)

You are young, and going through what most of us have gone through. Just hang in there. Be true to yourself and let go of fear. It'll be ok.

This is a necessary crisis for you; you need this conflict, and must find its resolution. Recall that God sent his son to the cross. And you are God's son too (Luke 3:23-38).

So smile. It's snowing here at my house.

Read Mark 12:29-34. There you have the law and the prophets. Keep that in your heart and live it every day. It is sufficient; nothing more is needed.

I Corinthians 10:23 and ff. Here is your guidance on how to proceed.

Last edited by greybeard; 10-09-2019 at 05:04 PM.
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  #13  
Unread 10-09-2019, 05:03 PM
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Originally Posted by greybeard View Post
Jesus said "...know the truth, and the truth shall make you free." (John 8:32)

You are young, and going through what most of us have gone through. Just hang in there. Be true to yourself and let go of fear. It'll be ok.

This is a necessary crisis for you; you need this conflict, and must find its resolution. Recall that God sent his son to the cross. And you are God's son too (Luke 3:23-38).

So smile. It's snowing here at my house.
Thank you. I feel comforted.
aah, snows~ when was my last time with snow? that was like 8 years ago... Never had the opportunity to make a big snowman. I only got to make a dwarf snowman with my friend, the snow not thick enough.

idk, when the snow fall, it makes me feel lonely. it reminds me how lonely and alone I am... those were the days. Glad, it has passed. Now, I still feel alone though but not as bad and there is no snow to remind me how gloomy my life was.

Last edited by PlutoLibScoAsc; 10-09-2019 at 05:08 PM.
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  #14  
Unread 10-09-2019, 05:12 PM
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Re: Bible and Astrology

The snowflakes have grown large now, and float to Earth. It'll be snowing for a while I reckon. And then the storm will pass and the Sun will shine again. Ain't life beautiful?
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Unread 10-09-2019, 05:23 PM
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Re: Bible and Astrology

We have hard winters here in Idaho. By Christmas it'll be 20 below with lots of snow. I love winter...go for a walk in the silence of the snow, the only sound the crunch of snow underfoot, the world purified.

Khalil Gibran, the Lebanese poet..."Alone, and without his nest, shall the eagle fly across the face of the sun".

My friend, if you believe in God, how can you be alone?

Last edited by greybeard; 10-09-2019 at 05:26 PM.
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Unread 10-09-2019, 08:29 PM
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Re: Bible and Astrology

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Originally Posted by Opal View Post
Another name for The Bible is "The Book of the Ages"

It is a Book that gives us the tools of survival through the ages of the zodiac, it is an astrological book.

If you are concerned what your birth religion, or chosen religion is saying, it is up to you to decide which is more important to you.

Belonging to your church and following its teachings.

Or learning astrology.

It is your path, it is your choice.
Can you give a source for "The Book of the Ages"? Or elaborate on how it is a book that gives us the tools of survival through the ages of the zodiac? Do you mean Old Testament only or New Testament as well?
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  #17  
Unread 10-10-2019, 01:17 AM
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The snowflakes have grown large now, and float to Earth. It'll be snowing for a while I reckon. And then the storm will pass and the Sun will shine again. Ain't life beautiful?
You're optimistic. I really can't when I know rape, abuse, violence, murder,crime and war going on daily somewhere out there.And then when one non Christian family or friend died, as the bible warned non believer will go to hell and be burned forever and ever and eaten by maggots forever and ever, I don't know how to really be truly joyful every day. Only can when that is not in my mind. The Words claim he is all good and loving and yet capable to throw his creation into such place and worse making it an eternity of torments to no end... I don't know how to come to agreement that he loves everyone or he was really just love? Like if you want to torture them because of punishment and your anger for like a 1000 years may be? and then just make them disappear may be? why does he wants it to be eternity? He teaches us to forgive but in the end he made a place of hell that eternally torture the soul to trillions of years with no end.

Last edited by PlutoLibScoAsc; 10-10-2019 at 01:20 AM.
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Unread 10-10-2019, 02:00 AM
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Quote:
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We have hard winters here in Idaho. By Christmas it'll be 20 below with lots of snow. I love winter...go for a walk in the silence of the snow, the only sound the crunch of snow underfoot, the world purified.

Khalil Gibran, the Lebanese poet..."Alone, and without his nest, shall the eagle fly across the face of the sun".

My friend, if you believe in God, how can you be alone?
I think people are alone, can be alone even when they believe in God. Believing in God and not feeling alone is just not true. Believing in God can't make you lonely or feel alone, that is just make believe. Or we are just different being with different characters, mind and emotions.you don't but I do. Like when you are alone in a country, having dinner alone and that is lonely, I feel lonely. Not like God is going to sit there and have dinner or have a chat with me. Or send his angel and have a chat with me on the table. It is alone and lonely. That is just reality. Believing in God but he never talks to in words as in exchange of conversation.
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Unread 10-10-2019, 02:08 AM
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Re: Bible and Astrology

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Originally Posted by greybeard View Post
We have hard winters here in Idaho. By Christmas it'll be 20 below with lots of snow. I love winter...go for a walk in the silence of the snow, the only sound the crunch of snow underfoot, the world purified.

Khalil Gibran, the Lebanese poet..."Alone, and without his nest, shall the eagle fly across the face of the sun".

My friend, if you believe in God, how can you be alone?
I have a beautiful book of his art and poetry. Amazing man.

Belief in a higher entity, by any name, by any faith, makes you comfortable in your own skin, and not lonely when you are by yourself.
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Unread 10-10-2019, 02:23 AM
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Re: Bible and Astrology

Maybe you should watch Carlin's routine on "religion.

Or become an atheist. Religion seems to cause you no end of internal conflict.

The world is as it is. You will not live to see it change. The question is not how to change the world, or human nature, but to somehow come to peace within yourself in the face of a cruel and unjust world.

And you must do it alone. No one can do it for you.

The earliest artifacts of mankind are weapons. They were mostly used for hunting, but also for war. The warrior is esteemed in every culture.

But where is the battle? It could be a war between Cambodia and Zimbabwe. But may I suggest that the only war that matters is the war within your own being.

The only way to win that war is by surrender. In surrender there can be no war. Peace ensues.

The Buddha said "Be your own lamp. Rely only on yourself."

The word "Islam" means "surrender to the will of God". Pisces is the sign in which the ego dies and liberation is attained. This involves recognition of our powerlessness...and surrender to the higher power.

Paul asks (Rom. 9:21-22) "who art thou that repliest against God?" "Repliest" can be taken as "argues".

Last edited by greybeard; 10-10-2019 at 02:52 AM.
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Unread 10-10-2019, 02:29 AM
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Re: Bible and Astrology

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Can you give a source for "The Book of the Ages"? Or elaborate on how it is a book that gives us the tools of survival through the ages of the zodiac? Do you mean Old Testament only or New Testament as well?
Read from the New Testament

Ephesians Chapter 2: paying attention to verse 7
Chapter 3: paying attention to verses 5 & 21

Colossians Chapter 1: paying attention to 26

I know there is something in the last supper to, I haven't located the verse or chapter yet.

From the Old Testament

Deuteronomy tells of the foods and animals we shall not eat. The foods are the same as Kosher and Halal. If you read the foods, you will see that they are animals and sea creatures that are necessary to the cleansing of the Earth after let's say a Nuclear Destruction.

When Moses came down of the Mount, the people were worshipping the golden bull Taurus, also the name of an area in the ancient Middle East. Then they started revering the Ram as sacred. Aries.

At the end of Aries time, the representative for the age was called the Fisher of Men. Pisces.

Next up will be the representative of Aquarius, The Water Bearer.

Sol o mon, Son of Man reigned when the pole star was in the constellation of Cepheus.

It is beautiful. I have a Biblical concordance, it is fun to look up words that intrigue my mind and see what comes up. And The Nag Hamadi's, also called The Book of the Ages. It is written supposedly by some of the same people that wrote the New Testament. The Secret Book of John is very interesting.

The Bible as we know it was only written in the 1400's. The Nag Hamadi's and The Other Bible go back further.

Enjoy!
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Unread 10-10-2019, 03:03 AM
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Re: Bible and Astrology

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Originally Posted by Opal View Post
Read from the New Testament

Ephesians Chapter 2: paying attention to verse 7
Chapter 3: paying attention to verses 5 & 21

Colossians Chapter 1: paying attention to 26

I know there is something in the last supper to, I haven't located the verse or chapter yet.

From the Old Testament

Deuteronomy tells of the foods and animals we shall not eat. The foods are the same as Kosher and Halal. If you read the foods, you will see that they are animals and sea creatures that are necessary to the cleansing of the Earth after let's say a Nuclear Destruction.

When Moses came down of the Mount, the people were worshipping the golden bull Taurus, also the name of an area in the ancient Middle East. Then they started revering the Ram as sacred. Aries.

At the end of Aries time, the representative for the age was called the Fisher of Men. Pisces.

Next up will be the representative of Aquarius, The Water Bearer.

Sol o mon, Son of Man reigned when the pole star was in the constellation of Cepheus.

It is beautiful. I have a Biblical concordance, it is fun to look up words that intrigue my mind and see what comes up. And The Nag Hamadi's, also called The Book of the Ages. It is written supposedly by some of the same people that wrote the New Testament. The Secret Book of John is very interesting.

The Bible as we know it was only written in the 1400's. The Nag Hamadi's and The Other Bible go back further.

Enjoy!
Thanks Opal! So interesting!

You've given me a lot of curious threads to follow. Much appreciation.

Can I PM you if I have questions?
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Unread 10-10-2019, 03:09 AM
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Re: Bible and Astrology

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You're optimistic. I really can't when I know rape, abuse, violence, murder,crime and war going on daily somewhere out there.And then when one non Christian family or friend died, as the bible warned non believer will go to hell and be burned forever and ever and eaten by maggots forever and ever, I don't know how to really be truly joyful every day. Only can when that is not in my mind. The Words claim he is all good and loving and yet capable to throw his creation into such place and worse making it an eternity of torments to no end... I don't know how to come to agreement that he loves everyone or he was really just love? Like if you want to torture them because of punishment and your anger for like a 1000 years may be? and then just make them disappear may be? why does he wants it to be eternity? He teaches us to forgive but in the end he made a place of hell that eternally torture the soul to trillions of years with no end.
I used to struggle with a lot of these questions when I grew up in a conservative Protestant Christian environment. Now I approach the Bible through a literary lens as opposed to literal.

I think stories have a lot of value in finding your place in the world. Life is a narrative and I'm a character with my own interwoven story arc.

I read a bit of a book on Kabbalah (Jewish mysticism, "Ladder of Lights") and that perspective on Lucifer/the Devil was interesting and reconciled some of my issues with God as a loving being who also created evil. It's not that simple and I think we personify God in too humanistic of terms.

I'm not Christian. I find a lot of value in looking into many religions. I might venture and say I believe in the concept of God, but not in the way most religious folk do.
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Unread 10-10-2019, 03:40 AM
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Re: Bible and Astrology

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Thanks Opal! So interesting!

You've given me a lot of curious threads to follow. Much appreciation.

Can I PM you if I have questions?
Yes, of course, glad you enjoy chatting about this! Thanks
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  #25  
Unread 10-10-2019, 04:05 AM
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Re: Bible and Astrology

The only real biblical prohibitions in astrology come from Isaiah 47:13 and the book of Daniel, and even there, the tone of the Bible is more mocking astrologers' uselessness than outright forbidding astrology. If you can find some other proof-text, please let me know. More generally Leviticus 19:26 and Deuteronomy 18:9-14, 2 Kings 21:6 prohibit divination. A lot of the prohibitions of occult practices do not mention astrology, but mostly they condemn consulting mediums who communicate with the dead.

I don't think there are any specific prohibitions in the New Testament. Many Christians feel that the New Testament replaced the Old Testament.

The catechism of the Catholic church does expressly forbid astrology. This is based upon the first commandment: "You shall have no other Gods before me." I think this is a serious concern. If we are worried about the future, should we consult an astrologer or put our faith in God's plan for our lives?

Then I have seen some really odd interpretations by Evangelical ministers, who seem to think that astrologers today worship stars.

It is important to note that the biblical prohibitions against divination were written before horoscopic astrology was invented, like prior to 400 BCE. Babylonian astrology was what the Jews knew about, and the Babylonians thought that the planets were gods or omens from the gods. These planetary gods were worshipped extensively in Babylon.

Today, however, we can talk about the planets Mercury and Venus without any association with ancient gods.

Moreover, much of the astrology that is practiced today is not divination (i. e., prognostication, foretelling the future) but is basically analyzing someone's character through a natal horoscope interpretation. If I explain someone's personality traits and life issues by reading his birth chart. That is not divination.

If I predict what will happen to him in the coming year, that is divination.

Interestingly, the Catholic church during the early Middle Ages in Europe ran the major universities, and astrology/astronomy was a major part of their curriculum, including divination. I think their rationale was that God created the heavens and the order of planetary movements. The astrologer simply tries to interpret God's will for people.

Graybeard mentioned the 3 magi and the book of Revelation. Revelation has a lot of encrypted astrological lore in it. John's visions can be matched against constellations. The tree of life is probably the constellation Ophiuchus.

Eventually you will make up your own mind as to the relationship between your faith and fascination with astrology.

With all good wishes for your journey, W.
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Last edited by waybread; 10-10-2019 at 04:08 AM.
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