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  #26  
Unread 09-26-2017, 07:57 AM
david starling david starling is online now
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Smile Re: Jupiter-Time, 400 day calendar, approaching the Scorpioyear!

Blacksun? (gotta love the question mark!), Have you read a book called "Morning of the Magicians"? It freaked me out when I read it in the late 60's, partly because I had the flu and a high fever, and because it's about some heavy occult stuff, including what some of the Nazis were into. If you have, just wondering what you think about it.

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  #27  
Unread 09-26-2017, 06:17 PM
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Re: Jupiter-Time, 400 day calendar, approaching the Scorpioyear!

I havent read that particular work but it was precisely this what shocked me initially, engaging these Nazi Nietzscheans - they were all the best and most educated occultists Id ever talked to. I then quickly saw how all of nazi symbolism is deeply occult. What they did to the Runes (Otto von List) is truly hubristic. They simply inverted some runes - so the runes brought them down. Runes, revealed to Odin when his eye sank into Mimirs well, are like the precursors to consciousness. If you invert a lofty rune and then use it as your symbol, you will be "turned to the ground" as the Greeks said it.

In any case, some of the best online occultists are still nazis. Its been a real problem for my emotions.
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  #28  
Unread 09-26-2017, 09:37 PM
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Re: Jupiter-Time, 400 day calendar, approaching the Scorpioyear!

I am so loving this thread. Finally. Freedom of thought. Thank you.

I'm also enjoying all of these ideas that are exploding in this thread right now. Magic happens when you get the right people together. It's energy. I can't comment right now -- gotta run -- but please keep it coming, all of you. This stuff is too good. No internal editors allowed. Just let it fly.

(At some point, lets circle back to Jupiter too. There's will be a lot to explore when it goes into Scorpio.)
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  #29  
Unread 09-26-2017, 09:45 PM
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Re: Jupiter-Time, 400 day calendar, approaching the Scorpioyear!

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I don't know why it doesn't occur to the general spirit of the US to symbolically and emotionally rectify what can still be rectified..
It's because we don't have our own defining culture outside of capitalism. The US is a very young country compared to other nations that hold a long history of stories that shaped its cultural identity.

Everyone needs a sense of identity, even nations, to rectify anything. The fact that our identity is so deeply rooted in an economic theory creates a culture that can be shallow and weak (but strong in other ways too).

Some people say our culture is "freedom," but we all know the B.S. that rests under that argument.
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Unread 09-27-2017, 08:29 PM
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Re: Jupiter-Time, 400 day calendar, approaching the Scorpioyear!

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I am so loving this thread. Finally. Freedom of thought. Thank you.

I'm also enjoying all of these ideas that are exploding in this thread right now. Magic happens when you get the right people together. It's energy. I can't comment right now -- gotta run -- but please keep it coming, all of you. This stuff is too good. No internal editors allowed. Just let it fly.

(At some point, lets circle back to Jupiter too. There's will be a lot to explore when it goes into Scorpio.)
No thank You - it is redeeming to know these thoughts are being appreciated. Naturally, very few people can handle them, resulting in excommunication. Its very scary to see how people avoid thinking about things.

Jupiter into Scorpio, I can't even express in words what Im feeling. Or rather, all Id say in words right now would do injustice. Of course Scorpio is that unspeakable sign.

Not to discourage anyone from speaking - just saying I can feel a lot of power accumulating, preparing to unleash itself into the deep and hidden channels Scorpio has access to.

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It's because we don't have our own defining culture outside of capitalism. The US is a very young country compared to other nations that hold a long history of stories that shaped its cultural identity.

Everyone needs a sense of identity, even nations, to rectify anything. The fact that our identity is so deeply rooted in an economic theory creates a culture that can be shallow and weak (but strong in other ways too).

Some people say our culture is "freedom," but we all know the B.S. that rests under that argument.
I think its also the Christian mindset of the settlers that introduced a natural contempt for the "savages" and their beliefs and values - in as far as capitalism deals with trade (which unfortunately is not what it specializes in) it is compatible with most cultures, but indeed it does not provide its own value-set.

In any case, this is an opportunity for the US to acquire a solid cultural ground. It would be a small step but a giant leap.

Im not seeing this within 10 years, but If Im not being it in ten years, Ill be beginning to worry.

Trump has completely blasted open the electoral code. Now, everyone can run.

I have to mention, too - the US does produce the greatest cultural value of this age to my mind - shows like The Shield, The Wire, Deadwood, The Sopranos, and many others represent a very serious cultural advancement over the romanticism of Hollywood, which itself has been impressive and powerful enough -

America is so important because it is the father of our times. The world can't function without its culture - and despite its disregarding of the possibility of elevating a native of the land to the highest office, it still carries forth a lot of that native spirit in its unbridled boldness and love of the wild.

America is wild. Compared to Europe, it is paradise.
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  #31  
Unread 09-28-2017, 09:14 PM
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Smile Re: Jupiter-Time, 400 day calendar, approaching the Scorpioyear!

I have Jupiter in late Scorpio (27degrees 30').
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  #32  
Unread 09-29-2017, 03:00 AM
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Re: Jupiter-Time, 400 day calendar, approaching the Scorpioyear!

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Mercury, Venus and Mars are in Virgo. I have no Virgoan placements except for the Descendant, which I see as being about one's personal attitude concerning traditions (Astrology included). That's why [IMO] I look for regular patterns and analyze traditions instead of just accepting them as they're usually presented. Virgo, like Gemini, isn't tied to only one thought structure, so it can play with the possibilities.
In my natal chart, Jupiter, Mars, Lilith and Saturn form a triple planet stellium plus Lilith in Virgo. It interferes with my Sun/Moon in Aquarius, the stellium opposite Mercury (Pisces), both the stellium and Mercury square Neptune (Sagittarius), and the conjunction square Uranus (Scorpio). Virgo like Gemini are ruled by Mercury - the planet of communication, speech and languages.
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or , I have the same ruling planets: Uranus and Saturn. I see the Cancer rising. Aries in the MC and Venus was her name!
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  #33  
Unread 09-29-2017, 06:06 PM
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Re: Jupiter-Time, 400 day calendar, approaching the Scorpioyear!

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Our ideas are the first seeds we must gather if we will ever get to the harvest. Jupiter in Scorpio will be a badass transit, for badass people, looking to bust some badass moves. Jupiter will provide an assist by parting the red sea so that the depths of scorpio can be easily accessed to anyone who wants to find it. To anyone who is capable of finding it. Without constraint, we will find, hold, intoxicate, regenerate, transform, and unleash….only to do it again…. and again…. until finally the greater benefic says “enough!” --- collapsing across the finish line into Sagittarius. Eventually, Jupiter will want to breathe and fly above the atmosphere, away from Hades and the brink of death, fly with its new emboldened wings, away from the burnt crust ashes of underworld where new beginnings were found. It’s best to take advantage of Jupiter in Scorpio because it won’t last long --- it’s barreling home to its promised land in Sagittarius, where freedom rings, Chiron cries, and Man has fire to warm the night.
Thats properly impressive, sadge.
So much so that I failed in my attempts to respond directly.
Jupiter does that; overwhelm. Unmistakably you are capable of Jupiter-priesthood, and I recommend that you cultivate that power.

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If I remember correctly, the natal chart of the United States has Scorpio taking up the 11H and half of the 12H….this is the range of direct influence we will see in the nation. Uranus in Taurus will be in the 5H. It looks like mass transformation is inevitable… without a doubt to be shaped by our fierce sovereign agenda for independent stability against a world stage that trying desperately to keep itself from falling apart. Its possible.
Thats a lofty arrangement. The 5th and 12th work well together. It seems we are going to be able to create our way out of the mud. I won't say swamp, as the people calling for drainage of the swamp aren't to be taken as heroes or examples - we havent really seen the sort of class yet that can be, as a group, heroic. This class needs to he instated under the auspices of Jupiter; Ive been considering for at least 20 years - why do wealthy artists not run for offices? After Trumps victory, they started to realize they could, and probably should.

Its not so much that we just need to get right people it he offices though, its more that we need to allow our society to redefine what is right, and come up with an actual positive value that invigorates people rather than that it makes them sad and helpless, which is what all the victim-politics tend to do, to such weird extremities.

"Oh no, my child has a sex-organ, how horribly bigoted of nature. Let me be merciful, take my kid to the clinic and have its penis cut off before it can decide for itself, because I need to ensure that it has the freedom to not be the gender it was born as, and make sure it uses that freedom before it knows what sex is."

Thats actually what happens to kids now. Its because freedom has been defined as a negative; to be free from (fill in anything: logic, biology, probably gravity is to be sued and taxed next) - rather than as a positive; Free to.

(Nietzsche makes this distinction as the distinction between slave- and master-morality.)

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(Will this be a Jupiter return for both of you, Black and David?)
It'll be my opposition year. I have him in I at 21 Taurus conjunct mean Lilith (true at 16), trine Mars in X in 22 Capricorn.
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  #34  
Unread 09-29-2017, 06:55 PM
david starling david starling is online now
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Smile Re: Jupiter-Time, 400 day calendar, approaching the Scorpioyear!

Gender "reassignment" for children, even if it's only puberty-blocking hormone treatments, is CHILD ABUSE, and it's a big money-maker for the Pharmaceutical Industry.
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Unread 09-29-2017, 06:57 PM
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Re: Jupiter-Time, 400 day calendar, approaching the Scorpioyear!

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Gender "reassignment" for children, even if it's only puberty-blocking hormone treatments, is CHILD ABUSE, and it's a big money-maker for the Pharmaceutical Industry.
At the very least. It prevents the child from ever having its own children. Its probably the worst soul-torture ever invented.

In the other case, it will be a "man" with a womb, to whom a child is born - that woud also be a horror of unimaginable depth, to be that child.

It can only be the result of a deep loathing of our culture with respect to itself - a deep wish to sabotage its processes of procreation. I can tell you from in the family that it is devastating enough for a parent to have to see the child do this voluntarily - but for the parent to entice a child into it, that is truly evil beyond what I could ever have imagined.

The danger of this situation is also that, to the parts of humanity less inclined to mutilation in the name of freedom human dignity, it is becoming apparent that no laws and no science are perhaps even preferable to too much science and too many laws.

Then you have the late stage abortions, the products of which are used as protein in our food. Trump just signed something against that, of course making him a bigot in the eyes of the murderously insane.

Anyway. Its all so much far worse than too much - Libya now being one large sex-slavemarket... Liberal politics are really good competition for Dante.

No joy to be derived from talking about any of this. Such topics are breaking up millions of families as we speak. The evilest part of evil is that to try to fight it causes you to lose out in the world.

Thence: better to exalt the Greater Benefic and make more palpable the value of life, and of nature, the majesty of the cosmos as it is given to each of us -

the very worst of fools are the ones who wonder how we will survive when we have ruined the Earth. When we ruin the Earth, there is nothing that could give us the right to live. Anyone looking for an escape from a burning earth deserves the wrath of all the gods who worked on our biosphere, not to mention all its animals, elements, and natural disasters. May the wrath of all the universe concentrate on these treacherous ingrates.

Be true to the Earth.
And I will try to refrain from getting sucked into these topics too much. Too much pain, too much as been lost to too many in the name of that "progress".

So - strangely, Jupiter would ow work as a conservative force. Because abundance is something we need to get back to. We need to restrain our species self-mutilation and enslavement, so as to be aware of some values again.

As it happens, this value ontology or self valuing logic that I forged from Nietzsche and physics, came to be when Jupiter was in Taurus. Values - Thats what is real, that is what matters. All matter matters to itself - that is why it has nuclear bonds, that, when split up, cause the primal rage that on another level also a human robbed of his loved one exposed into - why people sacrifice themselves in vengeance - to do justice to the bond even if it was shed - human and animal response to values and changes in the value-sphere are as predictable as mathematics - but this also as challenging to work out, explicate into language theory, models. And it is not clear if such a thing would be desirable.
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  #36  
Unread 09-29-2017, 07:01 PM
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Gender "reassignment" for children, even if it's only puberty-blocking hormone treatments, is CHILD ABUSE, and it's a big money-maker for the Pharmaceutical Industry.
[Adding] It's Legalized child abuse. Doctors sworn to "first, do no harm" who participate in this, should be deeply ashamed of themselves.
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  #37  
Unread 09-30-2017, 10:46 AM
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Re: Jupiter-Time, 400 day calendar, approaching the Scorpioyear!

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I won't say swamp, as the people calling for drainage of the swamp aren't to be taken as heroes or examples - we havent really seen the sort of class yet that can be, as a group, heroic. This class needs to he instated under the auspices of Jupiter; Ive been considering for at least 20 years - why do wealthy artists not run for offices? After Trumps victory, they started to realize they could, and probably should.
.

Why don't wealthy artists run for office? Because the drive for producing art is completely different from the kind of drive that takes one into politics. Both can carry Neptunian influences, but each stems from a different kind of purpose. Artists want to be free. You have to be a social hooker to be a politician.
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Unread 09-30-2017, 10:49 AM
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Re: Jupiter-Time, 400 day calendar, approaching the Scorpioyear!

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"Oh no, my child has a sex-organ, how horribly bigoted of nature. Let me be merciful, take my kid to the clinic and have its penis cut off before it can decide for itself, because I need to ensure that it has the freedom to not be the gender it was born as, and make sure it uses that freedom before it knows what sex is."

Thats actually what happens to kids now. Its because freedom has been defined as a negative; to be free from (fill in anything: logic, biology, probably gravity is to be sued and taxed next) - rather than as a positive; Free to.

.

^^^ This is an example of how I sometimes wonder if all of our technological advancements really have made us more "free," or whether it's done more harm by reinforcing barriers between people and the natural world around them. Probably a mix of both.
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  #39  
Unread 09-30-2017, 12:24 PM
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Re: Jupiter-Time, 400 day calendar, approaching the Scorpioyear!

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Gender "reassignment" for children, even if it's only puberty-blocking hormone treatments, is CHILD ABUSE, and it's a big money-maker for the Pharmaceutical Industry.
It does seem that children would be too young to have enough judgment to make such a life-altering decision. I mean, you can't even drive until you're 16 or buy booze until you're 21 in the U.S.

Do you know if it's required coverage for insurance in CA?
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Unread 09-30-2017, 12:33 PM
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It does seem that children would be too young to have enough judgment to make such a life-altering decision. I mean, you can't even drive until you're 16 or buy booze until you're 21 in the U.S.

Do you know if it's required coverage for insurance in CA?
Until you're 18, you're on your parents insurance, and you can stay on that. But insurance is a requirement for every vehicle. I bought a Triumph convertible in my name when I was 19, but the insurance was so high for a teen, that I had to get the title transferred to my parents. Raised their rates considerably, but nothing compared to what I would have been paying.
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Unread 09-30-2017, 06:07 PM
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Re: Jupiter-Time, 400 day calendar, approaching the Scorpioyear!

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Why don't wealthy artists run for office? Because the drive for producing art is completely different from the kind of drive that takes one into politics. Both can carry Neptunian influences, but each stems from a different kind of purpose. Artists want to be free. You have to be a social hooker to be a politician.
Im not so sure about that. You have to be a social hooker to be in Hollywood, as well.
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Unread 09-30-2017, 06:15 PM
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Re: Jupiter-Time, 400 day calendar, approaching the Scorpioyear!

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^^^ This is an example of how I sometimes wonder if all of our technological advancements really have made us more "free," or whether it's done more harm by reinforcing barriers between people and the natural world around them. Probably a mix of both.
Humanity seems to have put al its efforts in dominating and where that requires it eradicating nature. This is about to change, this attitude.
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  #43  
Unread 09-30-2017, 06:55 PM
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Re: Jupiter-Time, 400 day calendar, approaching the Scorpioyear!

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Im not so sure about that. You have to be a social hooker to be in Hollywood, as well.
Hollywood is it's own political system too. We are thinking of different kinds of artists in reference to the question.

All artists and politicians try to actualize a vision. I am an artist, but there is no way I could remain authentic to my chosen crafts and honor the spirit of my vision within a system that operates in a framework of competing self-interests. I don't have a desire to compromise myself by becoming a social hooker. I want to create art...that is the place I go when it's time to be free. Politicians are puppets. I am not a puppet to be swayed by public opinion or media. I would rather direct the puppets. It's possible to affect change from a variety of different angles in life. Scientists, novelists, scholars, poets, social movement organizers, teachers.... some of the most influential people have deliberately stayed out of the political game because they are well aware of the cost to be in it.

Some people in life are driven to make change in the world around them. The reasons for the underlying drive will vary between people. And some people just change the world around them by being themselves or through the quality of their work. Agents of change come in a variety of different ways.

I believe that the world leaders we admire or criticize may appear to hold the power, but they are chained down in ways that most genuine artists are not designed to tolerate. If you've observed that artists stay out of politics (not all, but most), then there's probably a reason why.

On a side note, this convo reminds me of a time I worked with a friend filmmaker to create an educational/promotional piece. I was amazed by the power that is harnessed in the editing room. Cutting at just the right place had exponential effects in capturing meaning. This is similar to politics....knowing how to frame your position against an audience. There are plenty of similarities between Hollywood and politics. And a handful of good people in both camps. But the nature of the game -- social prostitution -- is the same.
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Unread 09-30-2017, 07:00 PM
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Re: Jupiter-Time, 400 day calendar, approaching the Scorpioyear!

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Humanity seems to have put al its efforts in dominating and where that requires it eradicating nature. This is about to change, this attitude.
How?

(I have my own ideas, but love hearing other's too.)
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Unread 09-30-2017, 08:17 PM
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Re: Jupiter-Time, 400 day calendar, approaching the Scorpioyear!

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[Adding] It's Legalized child abuse. Doctors sworn to "first, do no harm" who participate in this, should be deeply ashamed of themselves.
Unfortunately such principles are not a part of the cost/benefit structure.

(Yes, I see the relation to Age of Cap versus Aqua. Also noticing how some people will be the agents of change.)
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  #46  
Unread 09-30-2017, 08:27 PM
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Re: Jupiter-Time, 400 day calendar, approaching the Scorpioyear!

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Hollywood is it's own political system too. We are thinking of different kinds of artists in reference to the question.

All artists and politicians try to actualize a vision. I am an artist, but there is no way I could remain authentic to my chosen crafts and honor the spirit of my vision within a system that operates in a framework of competing self-interests. I don't have a desire to compromise myself by becoming a social hooker. I want to create art...that is the place I go when it's time to be free. Politicians are puppets. I am not a puppet to be swayed by public opinion or media. I would rather direct the puppets. It's possible to affect change from a variety of different angles in life. Scientists, novelists, scholars, poets, social movement organizers, teachers.... some of the most influential people have deliberately stayed out of the political game because they are well aware of the cost to be in it.

Some people in life are driven to make change in the world around them. The reasons for the underlying drive will vary between people. And some people just change the world around them by being themselves or through the quality of their work. Agents of change come in a variety of different ways.

I believe that the world leaders we admire or criticize may appear to hold the power, but they are chained down in ways that most genuine artists are not designed to tolerate. If you've observed that artists stay out of politics (not all, but most), then there's probably a reason why.
Problem is there have never been admirable word-leaders. Trump is admirable to me precisely because isn't a sanctimonious world-butcher but just a man, an actual human of flesh and blood. So I see his presidency as a beginning of a phase where actual persons, actual people with actual souls, can run for executive power. But of course you are right that there will always be a fundamental gap between the artist spirit and the political spirit, and it will be rare that someone bridges that gap and represents both truth and power.

Quote:
On a side note, this convo reminds me of a time I worked with a friend filmmaker to create an educational/promotional piece. I was amazed by the power that is harnessed in the editing room. Cutting at just the right place had exponential effects in capturing meaning. This is similar to politics....knowing how to frame your position against an audience. There are plenty of similarities between Hollywood and politics. And a handful of good people in both camps. But the nature of the game -- social prostitution -- is the same.
Yes. Ive worked in the editing room for 10 years. It is where the magic happens. You can often change a news story to mean the exact opposite by cutting out the last or first few seconds of a key quote. But every image you juxtapose to another gives that first image a completely altered meaning. There is no end to the magic.

Early Russian filmmakers were freaked out by this.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kuleshov_effect

Just to illustrate how much fun Im still having with it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G9VjDVjiQYY
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Unread 09-30-2017, 08:42 PM
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Re: Jupiter-Time, 400 day calendar, approaching the Scorpioyear!

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How?

(I have my own ideas, but love hearing other's too.)
Cataclisms, catharses, catastrophes, crises;
reality will continue pounding on us so rigorously that we simply will gradually give up hope of controlling nature, and a new reverence will awaken.

I don't see any lofty smooth path - I just see that those who can already see through the mist, and those that exploit their spiritual advantage to the benefit of all those that wish to liberate themselves, as eventually being revealed as beacons to following generations of "dissenters from the machine".

This is why I advocate priesthood for Jupiter -
There simply is no authority that we can rely on besides our spiritual signifiers. There are no moral authorities - "there is no guard now" as David Simon said it. Jupiter, along with Sun and Saturn, forms the impulse for moral authority.

Soon enough humanity will be frantically in search of new sources for morality.
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Unread 10-01-2017, 03:21 AM
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Re: Jupiter-Time, 400 day calendar, approaching the Scorpioyear!

Well, my mood was rather cynical. It was mercury on the last degree of Virgo, that acted as a frustrating funnel yesterday.

Of course I am a little bit more hopeful than that.
But I do feel the need to recognize the unprecedented changes that are bound to come and stand firm in our cosmic ground, and don't budge or bend one millimetre for things our instincts, common sense, intuition, or logical reason tell us are unwholesome even if all our community pressures us to give in so that they can pretend to feel good for a second longer.

--

David, I wanted to ask you, what was it that made you interpret Uranus as entirely feminine?

The first time I heard that term was because there is a building at the Donaukanal in Vienna called Urania near where I lived. I looked it up and found some associations to a kind of primordial mother substance.

Thankfully planets don't actually have genders they use to procreate, so we are free to interpret a we must. I have seen a completely feminine side of Jupiter as well.
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Unread 10-01-2017, 06:35 PM
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Re: Jupiter-Time, 400 day calendar, approaching the Scorpioyear!

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Originally Posted by david starling View Post
Until you're 18, you're on your parents insurance, and you can stay on that. But insurance is a requirement for every vehicle. I bought a Triumph convertible in my name when I was 19, but the insurance was so high for a teen, that I had to get the title transferred to my parents. Raised their rates considerably, but nothing compared to what I would have been paying.
I'm sorry.

It wasn't you, it was the system that forced it.
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Unread 10-01-2017, 06:59 PM
sadge sadge is offline
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Re: Jupiter-Time, 400 day calendar, approaching the Scorpioyear!

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Originally Posted by blacksun? View Post
Problem is there have never been admirable word-leaders. Trump is admirable to me precisely because isn't a sanctimonious world-butcher but just a man, an actual human of flesh and blood.
I disagree. I don't see a man in him at all. I believe some people romanticize Trump, just like how some people romanticize Clinton. I agree that trump represented a sense of anti-establishmentarianism because the frustration among the masses is real. But the choice was a misguided one due to a lack of other options and a poorly designed electoral college system that is no longer effective. Especially in a country as diverse and as powerful as the US, we need someone with the skills to bring people together, not someone driven by instincts to tear groups apart just to hold on to power. The 10H is a tricky place, full of shadows, and it requires almost a perfect alignment of the stars for one to execute that purpose well because there's always a price to pay in the journey to Saturn's home.

I respect the right for different opinions. I also choose to stay out of political discussions on this forum, so I'll end it right here.
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