Doomed?

I would not think living a life that gets one thrown in jail will be appealing or good for anyone. Going with the possibility of there being a possible successful career, and looking at the planet that rules that house, which would be mercury, how can I interpret it appropriately since it is not even in the 10th house? I would guess (merc in 8th house) implies the person would perhaps do well in a research kind of role or position that he would have freedom to direct by himself. The (merc trine uranus) would indicate perhaps they should go after technological interests, studies, or careers. And the (merc in aries) would suggest they have the ability to think fast on spot or innovate; or, perhaps invent new things via research, flashes of insight, and original understanding, due to the trine and 8th house function added to the aries function at the same time.

The Node is in the 7th house, so I reckon this person's life path would be of learning to get along with people and yet at the same time ensuring that he is independent within all of his relationships, since Node is in Aries at the same time. Since the node is moving towards Jupiter, as mentioned by EJ, that conjunct aspect is getting stronger, and so people with this present in their chart have the ability to synchronize themselves with society's culture, norms, traditions, values and get along quite well with them. Jupiter in the 7th implies "success is promised through partnerships and your ability to co-operate well with others generally." That is where the importance of the life path/requirement indicated by the node comes in. And so I begin to see there is a definite counter right here to the harsh aspects of opposition mentioned before. Or would that be taking it too far?

I am not sure though how to interpret the conjunction of the Node to Jupiter in 7th in Aries all combined. I'd like to know how different people would interpret that.

[?] said:

I would not think living a life that gets one thrown in jail will be appealing or good for anyone. Going with the possibility of there being a possible successful career, and looking at the planet that rules that house, which would be mercury, how can I interpret it appropriately since it is not even in the 10th house? I would guess (merc in 8th house) implies the person would perhaps do well in a research kind of role or position that he would have freedom to direct by himself. The (merc trine uranus) would indicate perhaps they should go after technological interests, studies, or careers. And the (merc in aries) would suggest they have the ability to think fast on spot or innovate; or, perhaps invent new things via research, flashes of insight, and original understanding, due to the trine and 8th house function added to the aries function at the same time.

The Node is in the 7th house, so I reckon this person's life path would be of learning to get along with people and yet at the same time ensuring that he is independent within all of his relationships, since Node is in Aries at the same time. Since the node is moving towards Jupiter, as mentioned by EJ, that conjunct aspect is getting stronger, and so people with this present in their chart have the ability to synchronize themselves with society's culture, norms, traditions, values and get along quite well with them. Jupiter in the 7th implies "success is promised through partnerships and your ability to co-operate well with others generally." That is where the importance of the life path/requirement indicated by the node comes in. And so I begin to see there is a definite counter right here to the harsh aspects of opposition mentioned before. Or would that be taking it too far?

I am not sure though how to interpret the conjunction of the Node to Jupiter in 7th in Aries all combined. I'd like to know how different people would interpret that.

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Fine, just ignore everything I wrote because you don't like the message you are hearing. Not even bother to disagree with my interpretations, but simply brush it aside as if I didn't even say anything. Because I said things you didn't like. May be I should have saved myself the trouble and not bothered to reply if that's the sort of attitude you are going to take. However, that is what the chart tells me, whether you like it or not. And personally I think that you know this too - from the questions you are asking I get the impression the person in question is, how to put it, not exactly going well with their career. Seriously I wash my hands of you and this thread. You don't want to learn or hear other's opinions - you've already decided what you want to hear and don't want to hear anything contradicting it.

Yoi said:

It's not a case of whether pluto wins or the sun/moon conjunction wins. Sun conjunct Moon is not inherently good.

The Sun conjunct Moon means someone who has difficulty seeing others point of view. This is good in that they can be really sure of things. However people can get annoyed by the person's inability to see their side of things. With pluto opposing the conjunction it means this is likely to result in power struggles with others, especially those in positions of power. This is especially true since Pluto is in Scorpio. Moreover since the Sun/Moon conjunction and Pluto are both in fixed signs, this indicates there is going to be a lot of stubborness on both sides on this issue which could make the situation worse. This looks like a great mixture for someone who is willing to fight for a cause and take on the world because they are going to be really sure of themselves and very hard to move. However, there is likely to going to be a lot of fighting and possibly suffering.

I don't think Neptune helps with the situation. Easy aspects just mean there is no conflict between the energies - it doesn't necessarily mean it will reward the native. Neptune aspects lend creativity and compassion but also escapism and dreaminess. Given what I think is happening with the Pluto, Sun, Moon axis I think Neptune's effect in all this would be to make the native unrealistic about what's going on. They they may have a far too romantic view of whatever the cause of the conflict is and this could make things worse.

This occurs in the 2nd-8th house axis. The 8th house is the house of others values and the money of others. The 2nd house is the house of your money and values. This means that on a personal growth level the conflict will be over values - the values of others and your own values. On a more material value, let's just say I can't see someone get rich with this combination. For example in the chart of Anne Boleyn who got rich by marrying a king she has two planets opposing in the 2nd house-8th house axis. However they were Venus and Jupiter.

At best I would say this aspect pattern will lead to someone who is a real fighter for a cause and with Neptune involved, may be a champion for the poor and weak. The fixed signs lead to a lot of stubborness. This could lead to large amounts of suffering and given its on the 2nd house-8th house axis, probably they are going to lose a lot of money. Even if money is not involved there will be a conflict on values.

At worse this could lead to someone who pisses people off, especially those in power, because they refuse to see others point of view and think they are always right. Neptune leads them to have grandiose images of themselves, contributing to the situation. Possibly drugs or alcohol or other hedonistic escapism may contribute. And they lose lots of money because of it.

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Hi Yoi, I dont think that "?" is actually dismissing what you wrote here, which is very well written indeed. I think he/she only wanted to add to what you wrote by highlighting other things in this chart and what "?" is writing there, also has it's validity. For instance this:

I would guess (merc in 8th house) implies the person would perhaps do well in a research kind of role or position that he would have freedom to direct by himself. The (merc trine uranus) would indicate perhaps they should go after technological interests, studies, or careers. And the (merc in aries) would suggest they have the ability to think fast on spot or innovate; or, perhaps invent new things via research, flashes of insight, and original understanding, due to the trine and 8th house function added to the aries function at the same time.

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is all very much to the point.

"Questionmark", the thing that you should know is the fact that the ruler of the 10th house does not HAVE to be in the 10th in order to show a successful career.
The way you interpreted that Mercury is exactly how you should do it. Always look at the ruler of the 10th house, it's sign position, it's aspects with other planets. Then look at other possible planets in the 10th and if there are no planets there, then only the ruler will give you an idea about a possible career.

Now, it might all look great with that trine to Uranus, but we also have to look at the ruler of Mercury, because the ruler RULES that Mercury, it is Mars and Mars tells Mercury how to act and then we get to what Yoi wrote about the possibility of not wanting to accept rules and authority. This attitude could then diminish the possibility of being succesful in the career, or harm the career. Mars not only rules Mercury, but also rules the house Mercury is in, the 8th house, known for its confrontations, crisis and transformational properties. It could show therefore that the person might be confronted with crisis, maybe total reconstruction at some point, should it be his own business.

And another thing °?° ,for the next time you wish to put up a thread, you will automatically see from the pop-up window, that we request a little bit of your (and everybody's of course) input on the actual question.
Amongst other questions, you asked:

What else can be learned that might help (or hurt) the given difficult condition?

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Now what exactly do YOU find difficult here? (We like to see your own input here)

You start by asking if this person is doomed (career or otherwise is not specifically mentioned). Now you must have had a pretty good idea why you asked this question,based on what you saw in that chart, so all we would have liked to see is your own reasoning, like:" I see this opposition to Pluto, I would think that this means the person can be very violent or prone to very difficult situations in his/her life, but could this also be interpreted in a more positive way?",

or:

"due to Pluto (ruler of Scorpio) opposing the Sun (life force, selfexpression) could this person be doomed? I think it has to do with selfdestructive energy somehow." Does pluto win or conjunction of sun/moon wins? I reckon this seems like a case of "the Lights" vs "the Dark".Could anyone please comment on this?

If you would have asked just this to start off with, you would not have been sent to this Greenhorn Lounge you see.

From what you wrote above, I see that you do have some knowledge of astrology, so I am sure you could have come up with some sort of own interpretation. For next time then?

I will post some study links for everyone who lands into this lounge

Cheers, Starlink

Sticky: Starting out with astrology-The Basics

Yoi said:

Fine, just ignore everything I wrote because you don't like the message you are hearing. Not even bother to disagree with my interpretations, but simply brush it aside as if I didn't even say anything. Because I said things you didn't like. May be I should have saved myself the trouble and not bothered to reply if that's the sort of attitude you are going to take. However, that is what the chart tells me, whether you like it or not. And personally I think that you know this too - from the questions you are asking I get the impression the person in question is, how to put it, not exactly going well with their career. Seriously I wash my hands of you and this thread. You don't want to learn or hear other's opinions - you've already decided what you want to hear and don't want to hear anything contradicting it.

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Funny enough, Yoi, the post I made was a direct response to everything you wrote. I thought you would recognize that, but hey, I should learn how to use all these 'forum skills' of quoting and such more frequently. I was hoping to hear what you make of the Jupiter and Node aspects, as that is what I thought would be able to counter the negative situation. I do appreciate your inputs and that is why I am attempting to respond to them with whatever little understanding I may have. It is not that I refuse to hear anything that contradicts (I don't find any contradictions, as I already found the chart 'difficult' in the first place), but rather I refuse to give up on this being a 'doomed' chart and hence constantly seek where the counters and strong points might be hidden. It does not mean I devalue your interpretation, I am simply trying my best to find something good, and meanwhile learn how to conduct interpretations more correctly as people show how they reason and where my reasoning is lacking or incomplete. Ending up in jail is definitely not a good thing for anyone, hence the motive for the search.

Starlink said:

Now, it might all look great with that trine to Uranus, but we also have to look at the ruler of Mercury, because the ruler RULES that Mercury, it is Mars and Mars tells Mercury how to act and then we get to what Yoi wrote about the possibility of not wanting to accept rules and authority. This attitude could then diminish the possibility of being succesful in the career, or harm the career. Mars not only rules Mercury, but also rules the house Mercury is in, the 8th house, known for its confrontations, crisis and transformational properties. It could show therefore that the person might be confronted with crisis, maybe total reconstruction at some point, should it be his own business.

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Starlink, it is really nice how you explained how Yoi got to the conclusion he did about Mercury's final behavior. It would have been nice if he had explained his reasoning likewise in response to what I wrote about Mercury, instead of getting upset and thinking I'm "brushing him aside". Yes, I did not know how to fully interpret Mercury, the ruler, as I mentioned in the very beginning of that post. Perhaps he could have picked up on that cue like you did before he assumed I was ignoring him. The suggestions I made about the career were directly in response to the problems with authorithy (ie a research position where the person has freedom, or inventing things, or basically anything in which the person would not have to deal too much with authority). Having one's own business is another that you have mentioned.

I understand what you mean about how to ask questions, Starlink. I will definitely do so in future.

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So, how does the Node and Jupiter conjunction work out then? I'd like to know if it helps or not, and if not, why not. I am thinking the Node would be the opposing influence to Mars or conflicts. Again, I'm not devaluing or ignoring anybody's interpretations here, but I simply seek to know what this does and why it does it. I think it helps in the way I mentioned in the previous post. I reckon it provides a single powerful point of 'redemption' that once achieved (as the purpose of node) will nullify the oppositions and allow for the immense energy inherent in the harsh aspects to flow positively through, benefiting the native in the end. I'd like to know what other people think of this point in the chart and why. Also, since the native's ascendant lies in Virgo, and Virgo likes rules, structure, somewhat functioning under some kind of authority, and is a mutable sign (ie versatile, flexible, ...), this 'redemption' would not be a such a far stretch or a complete impossibility?

[? said:

]It is not that I refuse to hear anything that contradicts....but rather I refuse to give up on this being a 'doomed' chart and hence constantly seek where the counters and strong points might be hidden....I am simply trying my best to find something good.

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But [?], the best way to help this person is to find solutions/ways to alleviate the identified problems rather than to search for something "good" to counter them.

EJ

Dear EJ53, I wrote the exactly same thing you did. I agree.
Sagittariously optimisticaly sunshiny fighting for light and happines (Mars in natal trines Fortuna)!
Best regards

EJ53 said:

But [?], the best way to help this person is to find solutions/ways to alleviate the identified problems rather than to search for something "good" to counter them.

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By reading the chart, the problems were identified. Also, by what I interpreted, the solutions of these problems are also identifiable through the chart itself. The counters are the solutions. Or broad outlines/suggestions of them. Unless of course my interpretations in the last few post(s) for:-
(i) Mercury and resultant suggestions for careers; and
(ii) (Jupiter,Node) and the qualities of the ascendant lending support,
are gravely flawed. In that case, I welcome better interpretations.