Tropical Age of Aquarius

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david starling

Well-known member
Hm...I thought Tropical astrologers would be happy to know they can have their own version of the Aquarian Age--one that actually moves through the Tropical chart. After posting a method that makes it possible in the R&D forum, I expected responses, both positive and negative, but that hasn't been the case. Actually, I'm getting the impression that people have lost faith in the promise of the Aquarian Age altogether; I get that--it's definitely a slow train coming, and Future Vision is a rare ability. Also, after the "Mayan Calendar" prophecy, which had so much going for it, failed to materialize any discernable results, the Aquarian Age prophecy lost some credibility as a result. At this point in time, we're still immersed in the "old" Age preceding the Aquarian, whether it be the Sidereal Age of the lower Piscean fish (the Goatfish, Capricorn) supported by it's fellow Earth-sign Virgo, or the Tropical Age of Capricorn itself. Sort of like living in a cave with electric lights, and feeling as though it's the only version of Reality that can ever be.
 
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Oddity

Oddity

Well-known member
Depends who you talk to, I think. Thing is, Aquarius rules the 8th house of the Thema Mundi. Death. And both Aquarius and death are ruled by Saturn.

I'd take the world wars as at least the pre-show to the Age of Aquarius if we want to look at it that way. The Age of Pisces, ruled by Jupiter, is probably the best humanity is going to get for a long time, and if it's not gone, it's almost gone. Then we have two ages of rule-by-Saturn. I don't mean to sound morbid, but I'm glad I won't be alive to see it.

I know Pisces has had it's problems, too, but I can't look forward to the sign of the hatred of man (Valens, ibn Ezra) being humanity's 'ruler' for the next 2600 years or so.
 
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david starling

Well-known member
Oddity's post implied at least some measure of belief. Hypothetically, if you were to contribute to the discussion, belief in a real "Age Effect" aside, what does your research tell you? Not a link to someone else's research, but your own logical opinion based on your own research? Can you put your skepticism aside ("willing suspension of disbelief"), because I have a feeling your analytical ability would provide valuable insight for those of us who do believe. I've learned a lot about astrology by taking skeptics siriusly! Seriously.
{Planets Act. The Earth is a planet. In the Earth-based coordinate system the Earth cannot itself move through the zodiacal signs. The Age indicator is a function of Earth's orbital plane around the Sun in combination with Earth's wobble as it rotates. Therefore, it's qualified to reveal how Planet Earth is acting upon us. For this reason, the Ages are known as Earth's Ages.} Your analytical critique?
 
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JUPITERASC

JUPITERASC

Well-known member
david starling said:
Oddity's post implied at least some measure of belief.
Hypothetically, if you were to contribute to the discussion, belief in a real "Age Effect" aside, what does your research tell you?
Not a link to someone else's research, but your own logical opinion based on your own research?
Can you put your skepticism aside ("willing suspension of disbelief"), because I have a feeling your analytical ability
would provide valuable insight for those of us who do believe.
I've learned a lot about astrology by taking skeptics siriusly.
Click to expand...
Siriusly - no need to re-invent the wheel :smile:

dr. farr said:
Different estimates for when the vernal equinox point (0 Aries) precessed, give different estimates for the begiining of the Age of Aquarius:

-C.C. Zain gave 1889 as beginning (thus the Age of Aquarius would have already started)
-S. L. Magregor Mathers ("Golden Dawn" Mathers) gave 2050 as the beginning
-Cheiro (famous 19th/early 20th century occultist, astrologer and palmist) also gave 2050 as the beginning
-Hipparchus ayanamsa hypothesis (Gould et al) gives 2040 as the start
-Vedic Lahiri ayanmsa would say the begiining will be in 2475
-Fagan/Bradley (Western sidereal) ayanmsa gives 2444 as the beginning

Finally, the almost unknown Alcyone/Krittika estimate
(starts the sidereal count from 149 BC),
says that the Age of Aquarius already is upon us, having begun in March of 2000 AD...
Click to expand...
 
Oddity

Oddity

Well-known member
David, traditional astrologers know about the precession of equinoxes. We don't use
'ages' in delineations or anything because there's no point to it.
 
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david starling

Well-known member
There's only a point to it if you believe (like I believe) that the Earth itself is acting upon us as a Planet, in a way that can be delineated astrologically. In that context, consider the implications-- it's our home planet:
The Earth is a Planet*Planets Act*The Age Indicator tells us how the Earth is Acting upon us*Therefore, the position of the Age Indicator in the chart is extremely important; as important as the position of the Ascendant. Both the A.I. and the Asc. are measured points involving the Ecliptic and a terrestrial movement--Earth's wobble on the one hand, and Earth's rotation on the other. If neither the A.I. or the Asc. are considered to cast Aspects or rule signs, I see no logical reason why a Traditionalist couldn't incorporate the Age Indicator as a Sign Enhancer (which is how I use it), just as the Asc. is about House Enhancement. But, it's a new idea, and that's that as far as Traditionalism goes, whether there's a point to it or not.
 
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david starling

Well-known member
Regarding differences of opinion as to when the Age of Aquarius begins: Aside from a decision whether to use Mean or True Ayanmsa, which is a relatively minor positional variation, those differences as to when the Aquarian Age begins are due ENTIRELY on where the Sidereal sign-boundaries are located; and THAT determines where the planets, the houses, and the nodes are located also.
If the Age of Sidereal Aquarius began in the year 2000, the Tropical and Sidereal sign boundaries aligned one sign over in that year. I don't know of any Siderealists who are using that setting, but the reasoning appears astronomically sound, so it might be a viable alternative to using Spica, for example, for locating the Sidereal signs.
 
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Oddity

Oddity

Well-known member
I'd look at the mythology - the way the story of the golden calf was such a perfect metaphor for the transition from the age of Taurus to the age of Aries.

My late friend, David Roell, was convinced that the story of Lot, Sodom and Gomorrah was from a far earlier Aquarian age, and I'm somewhat inclined to agree with him.

Given your optimism, you don't wanna know what my mentor wrote about it. But if you do, check here: http://www.lunatica.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/SAA/Documents/Zoller/Archandpredabridged-2.htm

I don't see it influencing a natal chart as some kind of sensitive point, which I think is your argument. Do you look at Jupiter/Pisces as sensitive points for those of us who are old enough to (probably) still be Piscean?
 
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david starling

Well-known member
Actually, It's a great essay with a lot of valuable information. The part about the Aquarian Age being malific is only flawed within the context of modern astrology,which is what I'm using regarding the Ages. Correct me if I'm wrong, but is this an example of a Traditionalist who does believe in Ages?
As to Jupiter/Pisces being a sensitive point--no. That's sign-rulership, and a ruler comes through most clearly when it's in the sign it rules unless there's some aspect preventing it.The Age indicator is an enhancer, like the Asc. And like the Asc., in the whole house method it can be used to set houses, as your Mentor explains. Sign enhancement lasting for millenia causes what's called an Age. The enhanced sign's ruler becomes empowered for the duration of an Age. Think of a sign as a "program", a behavioral response produced by its ruler. When a planet is in a sign it doesn't rule, it becomes that sign's "sponsor", and as such it interacts with the "producer"/ruler. Production-value is highest of all in the Age-sign. This results in an "Age Generation".
 
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david starling

Well-known member
I spoke too soon. Saturn has both day and night rulership. Suppose Saturn has a split personality. Possibly all the rulers do, but in this case it's at the farthest extreme: Dr. Jeckell and Mr. Hyde. In that case, my mistake; you don't need modern astrology to explain why the Aquarian Age won't be malific--it will be ruled by the Saturn of the Golden Age instead of the Age of Lead. The archetypal evidence concerning Saturn supports the Jeckell/Hyde hypothesis, and as you say, I'm an optimist about what the Aquarian Age will be like; so I'm going with that. Thank you for turning me on to your Mentor. I'd heard about him of course, but I didn't know he was an eloquent Genius.
Uh, no offense meant regarding you, Mr. Hyde--just a metaphor based on an old flick. And thanks for that great thread about gender relative to Astrology!
 
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JUPITERASC

JUPITERASC

Well-known member
david starling said:
I spoke too soon. Saturn has both day and night rulership.
Suppose Saturn has a split personality.
Possibly all the rulers do, but in this case it's at the farthest extreme:
Dr. Jeckell and Mr. Hyde.
Click to expand...
That rationale brings planet Earth into to the mix
Day and Night = Earth and/or Saturn "has a split personality" :smile:

david starling said:
In that case, my mistake; you don't need modern astrology to explain why the Aquarian Age won't be malific
--it will be ruled by the Saturn of the Golden Age instead of the Age of Lead.
The archetypal evidence concerning Saturn supports the Jeckell/Hyde hypothesis,
and as you say, I'm an optimist about what the Aquarian Age will be like; so I'm going with that.
Thank you for turning me on to your Mentor.
I'd heard about him of course,
but I didn't know he was an eloquent Genius.
Click to expand...
If Robert Zoller is as described by you "an eloquent genius"
then despite your previously stated objection to quotes
the following quote may be of interest to you :smile:

QUOTE

'.....This is the third part of a series on Age of Aquarius I began about a year ago.
It is advisable to read parts I & II before reading this one.
My main purpose is to bring about a questioning of the assumptions and expectations of the Age of Aquarius.
This is a discussion the astrological community needs to have.
Almost all I see on the subject could be mostly summed up by the song by The Fifth Dimension.
I’m not sure if it’s fear, laziness or a complete lack of interest
that has cause this rather poignant dearth of discourse.....' Robert Zoller 2014

AQUARIAN AGE - THE MYTH OF GANYMEDE http://classicalastrologer.me/category/robert-zoller/




 
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david starling

Well-known member
So, Tropical Age of Capricorn, culminating near the end ( where it is now) as Tropical Cardinal-signs Ages do (Fixed-sign Ages come on strong at their inception); ruled by the Saturn of lead, which explains all the atrocities of this Age. We're all of the Capricorn Age generation, which is why we call our children "kids" and some of us end up as "old goats" (lol!). But seriously, it's not our fault. The Devil makes us do it, or at least makes us tolerate the evil that others, less resistant to Lead Saturn's amped-up influence, perpetrate. We're now in the midst of an Alchemical psychic process, in which Lead Saturn is getting transmuted into Gold Saturn. And after all our hard work and suffering, us Capricornian Agers will be called "the goat", and the Age of Aquarius will just breeze in and claim all the heroic credit. Not fair--but whatareyagonnado?!
If Robert Zoller knew about the Tropical Ages, in which this is the Age of Capricorn ruled by Saturn, not an Age of Jupiter-ruled Pisces, he could have taken this discussion to a much higher level than I'm able to accomplish. The Tropical Age method alters the paradigm dramatically. Even genius can't overcome a faulty premise. Infallibility ain't what it used to be, but what an Intellect! Does he peruse Astrologers' Community?
 
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JUPITERASC

JUPITERASC

Well-known member
david starling said:
So, Tropical Age of Capricorn, culminating near the end ( where it is now)
as Tropical Cardinal-signs Ages do
(Fixed-sign Ages come on strong at their inception);
ruled by the Saturn of lead, which explains all the atrocities of this Age.

We're all of the Capricorn Age generation, which is why we call our children "kids" and some of us end up as "old goats" (lol!).

But seriously, it's not our fault.

The Devil makes us do it, or at least makes us tolerate the evil that others, less resistant to Lead Saturn's amped-up influence, perpetrate.
We're now in the midst of an Alchemical psychic process, in which Lead Saturn is getting transmuted into Gold Saturn.

And after all our hard work and suffering, us Capricornian Agers will be called "the goat",
and the Age of Aquarius will just breeze in and claim all the heroic credit.
Not fair--but whatareyagonnado?!
Click to expand...
Interesting as ever to view these opinions
and note that all of these generalisations could describe stereotypical attitudes of parents towards children
and vice versa
as well as attitudes towards self and other
of any generation at any time in history
Presumably you have useful advice for those who may be interested
as to 'whatareyagonnado?!' :smile:
 
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david starling

Well-known member
The term is self-explanatory. Kind of like Snafu. I'm nobody's guru. Just a reasonably intelligent guy applying logic and analytical reasoning to what is to me, a vital topic. I get a lot of lot of exercise pushing the envelope, and I feel compelled to push this one. Well, since you asked for advice "keep your head down and your powder dry"! And, you're right--Saturn has been a problem for us Earthlings for Time out of Mind, regardless of what Age it was. But now in the Age actually ruled by the Mr.Hyde version, we ( collectively) are in danger of destroying all life on the planet. But look on the bright side--what Extraterrestrial civilization in its right mind would want to colonize us: Evil Saturn makes a great E.T. repeller! (Just kidding)
 
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JUPITERASC

JUPITERASC

Well-known member
david starling said:

The term is self-explanatory. Kind of like Snafu. I'm nobody's guru.
Just a reasonably intelligent guy applying logic and analytical reasoning to what is to me, a vital topic.
I get a lot of lot of exercise pushing the envelope, and I feel compelled to push this one.
Click to expand...
Exercise is definitely good :smile:
 
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david starling

Well-known member
Still pushing: Night-ruler (Leaden) Saturn } Age of Tropical Capricorn
Day-ruler (Golden) Saturn } Age of Tropical Aquarius

Hence: "This is the Dawning of the Age of Aquarius..."
 
JUPITERASC

JUPITERASC

Well-known member
david starling said:
Still pushing: Night-ruler (Leaden) Saturn } Age of Tropical Capricorn
Day-ruler (Golden) Saturn } Age of Tropical Aquarius

Hence: "This is the Dawning of the Age of Aquarius..."
Click to expand...

'.....Therefore, the nature of Saturn is cold, dry, melancholic, dark, of heavy harshness :smile:
And perhaps he will be cold [and] moist, heavy, of stinking odor, and he is of much eating and true esteem.
And he signifies works of moisture and the cultivation of land, and peasants, and village companions, and the settlement of lands,
also buildings and waters and rivers, and the quantities or measures of things, and the divisions of the earth,
also affluence and a multitude of assets, and masteries which are done by hand, greed
and the greatest poverty and the poor....' ~ ABU MA'SHAR http://www.bendykes.com/ita.php
 
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